Empower Your Legal Services with a B2b Saas Sales Funnel for Legal Services

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hi everyone and welcome to our discussion today on everything you need to know about sas agreements my name's paul rice i'm a practice leader in our corporate and commercial team and i'm joined today by my colleague jesse anderson today we're going to talk you through a couple of housekeeping points first so before we begin please note that you'll be emailed the copy of this webinar recording on its conclusion as we go through please submit any questions you have in the chat box we've got some time allocated at the end to answer them we'd love to to talk through any questions you have and if you have the time please complete a short survey at this conclusion um a brief overview what we're going to talk about we're going to start very broad and just talk about what is assass choosing the correct sas contract format we'll spend a bit of time talking about structuring payment and then we'll talk about some various risk and liability issues particularly around ip and privacy our bet is best to manage those uh finally we'll spend some time running through a q a and then we'll give you a brief overview of the pro membership that lv offers to its clients over to you jess thanks paul okay so we're starting off with just basically covering what is sas so sas stands for software as a service um it's basically a software licensing and delivery model where the software is licensed on a subscription basis and it's centrally hosted and made available via the internet so you don't need to download it some common b2b sas examples that you might have heard of or that you might have used include surveymonkey slack mailchimp zoom salesforce so as a sas business you're going to want to make sure that your clients actually pay you and you're also going to want to put yourself in a position where any liability or any risk that you have in operating your business is limited or at least reduced and your sas agreement can help with this okay so first things first you really need to decide on the format of your sas contract um we're all familiar with a business needing a set of terms and conditions or a contract and as sas business is no different so we often refer to this contract as a sas agreement but it can be referred to as lots of things so terms of use terms and conditions a license agreement it's less about what it's called and more about what's actually in it and there are different formats of sas agreements and we usually refer to these as online also known as click wrap or offline also known as hard copy so online or click wrap sas agreements are those where you go onto the business's website you sign up for the product and the terms and conditions will appear with a check box usually at the time where you're filling out the payment details and you accept the sas contract by ticking a box so if you choose to to set up or set up your sas contract this way it definitely has its benefits um it can be less admin work for you as your client can just sign themselves up you'll have a really good record of what terms your clients have actually signed up to and generally in this sort of scenario you'll have all of your clients on the same terms and conditions so it's easier to manage so we think online terms work really well where you don't well you're not necessarily going to negotiate the terms and conditions and where you don't offer bespoke packages for different clients it's more of a take it or leave it approach so on the other side we also have offline contracts so these are your typical contracts that we've all seen um traditionally they may have been printed out and signed with an execution block these days we also see these contracts being executed electronically through online document execution platforms such as and that's perfectly fine so the difference with the offline terms is that generally there's a schedule or a table with all the commercial details and you'll need to fill out this table for each customer so this table is going to have each party's details uh the inclusions the price the payment terms all those commercial things um and we find this works really well for businesses where you're not necessarily offering a one-size-fits-all approach and you want to offer different proposals to different clients or you know it works really well where the agreement's going to be negotiated so we always encourage our clients to have a think about how you want your sas agreement to be incorporated in your sign up process before you actually get started with drafting it um and sometimes our clients require both an online copy and an offline copy um for example you might want most of your clients to sign up online you know it's super easy but you'll you'll have larger enterprise clients that are prepared to spend a lot of money with you and you want to perhaps negotiate those terms and so you might have an enterprise version or an offline version of your sas contract that has different terms and that's negotiated with that client okay so once we've just you know once you've decided on the format of your sas contract then we can start thinking about those more commercial details like structuring payment and paul's going to discuss that side of things thanks jess um yeah so as just mentioned i mean structuring payment is obviously going to be really important it's going to be really important for you as you start a new business um getting that getting that business cash flow positive and obviously over the long term too cash flow and revenue is going to be really important for valuing your business so it's very important that you think about early on how best to structure it to maximize that in the short run but also to think about the flexibility over the long run so the very first question and just touched on this in terms of structuring the various contracts is whether you're going to be marketing to enterprise under a b2b model or marketing to consumers until under a b2c and of course you know maybe in certain businesses you may be targeting both under different segments or approaches um once that decision has been made then there's a there's a fundamental decision about well how are you going to be billing your customers you're going to be billing them on a weekly or a monthly or an annual basis and similarly will they be paying in advance of each of those billing cycles or will they be paying in arrears um it's it's pretty obvious that that you know signing up customers to pay in advance on an annual basis is going to be really great for your cash flow and really great for your revenue it's going to lock those customers in for a substantial period of time but you've got to weigh that up on whether that's the best approach to the market and whether actually you may generate generate more leads and more customers by offering more flexibility for example offering weekly or monthly um packages and then of course you know there's a lot of flexibility and that's one of the great things about the sas model is that you're able to to structure in a particular way so you may offer a standard monthly in advance offering and you may offer discounts on an annual basis um of course in terms of that flexibility you can of cour you can then look to structure the the sas payment based on on different types of criteria so you may offer payments based on various levels of access gold silver and bronze for example maybe based on features used particularly in the enterprise space you may you may look to tie payment to authorize user numbers and so in that way all you need is a few large enterprise clients with substantial authorized user numbers if you're able to structure a payment based on those authorized user numbers you can generate significant cash flow and revenue so then just talking more broadly on that authorized user issue which is going to be really important in terms of the the structure of the sas and the delivery of payment authorized users can be set up so that it provides a level of access management for um for the client for yourself and under the cloud-based solution you have a lot of visibility over over those authorized user numbers you may choose to appoint administrators within those enterprise users that has the benefit of of um empowering the businesses and and and making it a more marketable platform for them but it also has the you know the downstream benefit of minimizing some of that administration work and of course all the while um under the sas product you retain ultimate control over the entire use of the platform so even though you're able to appoint administrators that have certain powers that have certain ability to delegate and appoint and give authority to authorized user numbers you're never really exceeding any control over the platform when there are authorized users or end users involved you might want to consider putting in place end user license agreements or euler's now we've probably all seen those in various forms in our in our consumer lives typically these are included as a click wrap form of agreement and something that the end user will just sign via clicking or confirmation before they use the platform under the enterprise model you will have an agreement in place with the business but you won't have any direct documentation with individual users so having a short simple end user license agreement that they click through and acknowledge certain things around ip around their restrictions of use use and around certain risk and liability points can be a really great liability and risk mitigation tool for you and finally and related to structuring payment and sort of tying payment to the level of service it's quite common to incorporate the idea of service level agreements or slas um this has the benefit from a marketing perspective for the sas platform of of you being able to go to your customers or prospective customers and say these are the service levels we commit to meeting and they can be measured in any any way any shape or form the most common typically are the level of availability or uptime versus downtime of the platform itself or of course they could also be structured around incident response management times and again that's just something that you can go to the market with and say we commit to providing these various levels of service the flip side of course with that with making that commitment to your prospective customers and customers is some liability exposure so when you do think about setting those up firstly you need to make sure that they're reasonable and you're confident that you can meet them and secondly you need to make sure that there are sufficient carve outs or sufficient legal terms included within them so that you have the protection for example with respect to downtime if the entire network um falls down then that doesn't that doesn't count against you from a service level perspective and that's obviously something that that legal vision assists its clients with to make sure they're fully protected from a risk and liability perspective another way you can mitigate some of that risk is is we've talked about the importance of cash flow particularly for new businesses you don't want to be necessarily refunding clients and giving back that cash flow out of the business so a common way we work with clients is to include um service credits in the event that service level agreements are not met and this basically means that you know if the sla is not meant met that the customer gets a credit in the subsequent billing cycle and so that's again a nice way of making sure that they that that you're tying the service over through to the next period but you're not bleeding that cash flow which can be so crucial to new businesses um i'm gonna throw back to jess he'll talk us through some ip and privacy issues yeah okay so intellectual property and data as well are both really important concepts when it comes to your sas business um ip and data are different concepts they're separate concepts but there definitely is some overlap and we always cover off these concepts in in separate clauses in your sas agreement so intellectual property generally refers to creations of the mind and in terms of your sas your ip will include all of the code relating to the operation of the platform it'll include the branding the layout um the look and feel of your platform so this ip is is really what makes your sas business unique and it's where a lot of the value in your business is found so it's really important to make sure it's protected and you can do this contractually through your sas agreement as the owner of the ip you can also choose who gets to benefit from your ip and you can put in restrictions around usage so typically a sas agreement will set out that you own the ip um in your in your sas platform and that you give a license or permission to your customers to use the platform um but only on certain conditions so you know for example only on the condition that they pay the fees only on the condition that they only let their staff or authorized users use the platform and they don't let outsiders use the platform um only on the condition that they don't interfere with your platform and on the condition that they don't try to resell the platform or or do anything to breach any of your terms and conditions um so you also need to consider the ownership of any of the ip that your clients bring to the table that interoperates with the platform so for example with a lot of the the sas businesses we see that the clients or the customers can upload their own documents or their images or their branding um to the platform and in that case you'll actually need a license from that customer to use that content and so we need to see that license clause in the sas agreement which sets out you know what you can do with it and um certain customers who are very precious about their ip will want to see that that ip clause only allows you to use their ip in order to provide the stats and that you're not going to use it for unlawful reasons so your sas agreement also needs to deal with who owns any new intellectual property that's created through the use of your sas so for example if you run a sas business that's going to create a virtual garden using images that your customer has uploaded you have to consider who owns the intellectual property in the virtual garden are you going to own it or is your customer going to own that it's really a commercial decision for you to make but it needs to be reflected in the sas contract incl in terms of data so this we're talking about information or data that might be stored on the platform or inputted into the platform or generated uh as a result of use of the use of the platform um so for instance you might offer a sas that helps customers produce compliance reports or reports to measure your clients co2 emissions so as with intellectual property it's important that you carefully consider who owns what data and what rights you'll need to any data that's provided to you a really a common example that comes up a lot is that our sas clients want to aggregate data that they receive or that they generate from the platform and then use it often in an anonymized form for analytics purposes and they might use this data to further build the platform or to improve the platform and so we need to see that analytics clause in the sas agreement which sets out how the aggregated and anonymized data will be used um and larger clients of yours will often want to see and understand how you're using the data that you input or that that is created from your use of the platform uh and then moving to intellect to privacy rather so privacy is privacy is a big one for any business it's a really big one for sas businesses so you'll need to consider what personal information is being input by your customer and how you're actually handling and storing that information so your sas agreement should cover how the personal information will be used what security measures do you have in place what are you going to do if there's a data breach and do you transfer personal information overseas these questions will be really important um to to businesses in particular that need to comply with the privacy act so it's important for you if your business needs to comply and it'll be important for your customers and they'll want to see that you're handling the personal information of that is involved in their business including their their customers and their authorized users so they'll want to see that you're handling that information correctly um if your sas handles any particularly sensitive information so things like health information your customers again they're going to want to see that you're handling that information in ance with the australian privacy principles so this means that you're not using it for purposes other than the primary purpose for which it was collected or you're not using it without consent um and to sort of you should also have a privacy policy so this is like a separate policy it goes alongside your sas agreement and it goes into a lot more detail about these privacy matters and it should contain all of the things that are required under the fifth australian privacy principle uh okay so we've talked a lot about sort of risk factors um paul's not now going to speak about how to actually manage that risk and that liability thanks jess yes so so far we've spoken about a lot of things that will have a lot of you know have a large impact on the way in which you operate um the sas platform and and the service you offer to your customers whether that's from structuring payment through to making sure you're handling uh personal information correctly through to your considerations about how you want to treat data and ip now we just want to bring some of those threads together and just talk about how i guess you could work with your legal advisors at legal vision to make sure you're fully managing your risk and liability in the terms and conditions within the contract itself um so firstly you know like any business your sas business is not going to operate in a vacuum it's going to be subject to a range of of legislative regimes in place and and one of the really key things particularly in in the sas space where you're providing this the sas service um to consumers or small businesses is compliance with the australian consumer law so that will range from from really basic things like not engaging in misleading deceptive conduct not making misrepresentations right through to making sure that your contract does not contain any unfair contract terms so so we work very closely with our clients to make sure that the legal terms and conditions and the overall structure of the sas offering puts the sas provider in the best position from a risk and liability perspective but there is a regulatory regime in place that that is there to protect consumers and and one of the effects of that is we need to make sure that the terms are not too unfair for those consumers or small businesses so even though a particular term or condition like a really far-reaching indemnity or a provision that seeks to exclude liability altogether would be very appealing for the sas provider in terms of managing their risk and liability it may actually cause other problems from a regulatory perspective and so we work very closely to make sure that all of the information around pricing um around the legal terms and conditions complied with that unfair contract regime um having said that you know we work within that regime but we're still looking to make sure that the sas provider is put in the absolute best position when it comes to managing and limiting and excluding particular types of liability and risks so one really important form of liability that we want to exclude all together is the liability for consequential loss now think of consequential loss as as as a form of liability that exists somewhat downstream from the direct loss so if there's a breach of contract or some negligent act or there's some just think of it as being some problem or issue with the service itself and there are some direct losses that may be sustained by the counterparty and and the sas provider will need to be accountable for those but we don't want the sas provider to be accountable for things like loss of profit loss of opportunity or loss of reputation the two reasons why we want to exclude those types of liability uh firstly they're a long way downstream and the sas provider won't have a lot of visibility or foresight on what those types of losses are and so it's not reasonable for the sas provider to be accountable for that type of liability and secondly because they can very quickly turn into large numbers when we talk about things like loss of opportunity loss of profit and damage to reputation the dollar dollar figure associated with that liability can be very large so consistent with market practice we look to exclude that to the maximum extent we can under the law and secondarily um aside from that point we just like to limit the liability with respect to each user of the sas platform as much as possible and for this it's a bit less of a legal issue and more of a what is the market standard practice and and that will then flow through to whether or not the the term itself is unfair um for the purpose for regulatory purposes and so um we look we work very closely with our clients to make sure that we're tapped into what the market standard is um and that we're reflecting that in a position that is protecting and limiting their liability to the maximum extent possible and so an example may be that liability is limited for you know is limited equal to an amount of 12 months of the of the sas fees and maybe the 12 months preceding the event act or emission that gives rise to the liability for example but it's just a good way where you have a large customer base it's a good way of managing risk across your customer base by seeking to limit again to the maximum extent permission permitted by law the liability you have to each individual um and there's some particular wording and again that's that this gets this gets included in the standard terms and conditions whether it's a document they sign up front like just mentioned offline or whether it's included in the in the click wrap terms and conditions um it's very important that that you know from an overarching sense the liability is sufficiently excluded and restricted um that's very important for the ongoing solvency of the business in the event that the rainy day does does arrive secondly when we talk about providing particular warranties or promises about the cert the services you're going to provide it's really important that again we have reference to what is market standard and what is an appropriate level of promises that you provide that you will provide we talked about earlier about making sure service levels were at an appropriate level and again um the same principle flows down through here to the wall to the type of promises about the stand the standard of service you're going to provide so we look to to what what is market standard what is reasonable and what is not unfit what is not unfair again keeping in mind that we're providing the sas by the cloud there are a lot of external factors in play here so you don't want to necessarily for example promise that the sas will be available at all times every time of the year um because there are factors beyond your control as a sas provider um and in these are these are terms and conditions that are you know buried in the legal terms and conditions but if something goes wrong they're really important so we work with our clients to make sure that we're striking the right balance there and then finally we want to include certain terms and conditions that that tie everything that that just mentioned about ip rights and data and and privacy all through together so we'll typically include certain restrictions you know an obvious one being they're not able that your customers aren't able to reverse engineer the software and try to recreate the source code we'll create we'll make sure the terms and conditions with respect to the license you give them for use are sufficiently narrow and limited to their use of the of the sas platform i.e they can't try and commercialize it or onsell it without your permission um and a range of other provisions that are just there to protect you so that again like like i mentioned if that rainy day does arrive you're in a really solid position from a risk and liability perspective um again all things going well um all of the clients are really happy there are no issues the network never never ever fails but it is really important that the boring stuff in the terms and conditions is is adequately drafted to protect you um so so that's that's broadly if you have any particular questions on that we'd love to hear from you but i might throw it back across to jess yep great okay so i think we we have a fact sheet available so basically if you've been sort of rushing to take notes as we've been speaking this fact sheet basically summarizes what we've discussed it today and you can access it via the handout section in your webinar panel you might also be interested in joining our next webinar so that's next wednesday the 13th of april so our colleagues will be speaking about what to consider when buying your tech or online business and you can register via our events page the link is there so let's get into some questions we've received a handful of questions and feel free to keep sending them through so i'll answer the first one the first one we've got is which uh sas terms need to be included in a contract for a real estate platform okay so i mean all of the clauses and the terms that we've spoken about so far need to be uh included in a in your sas agreement for your real estate platform i think a couple that are going to be particularly relevant for you are restrictions on you know scraping your your website your platform you're undoubtedly going to have lots of really valuable information there and you're going to want to make sure that there are some really clear restrictions um and clauses that prohibit anyone from scraping that information or using the the information and the content on your platform to build a competing platform or to build a database of property information and you're also going to want to have disclaimers i imagine that you might have things like property reports articles blogs on this sort of on this sort of sas and so it's it's going to be important to have disclaimers that the information in these reports is is general in nature only um and it's not professional advice or legal advice that someone can rely on um so that's that one paul is there a question you wanted to answer sure um so the next one we got is what is the difference between a sas agreement and a sas license um in in basically the short and the long answer is there's not really any difference so a license you know if we think of it more briefly brought more broadly from a legal perspective is really just a right to use or a right to access and typically to make that enforceable it would be included in a form of agreement um so just stepping back more broadly i think um you know across the market we'll we'll see sas type services um pull different things you they might be called a sas agreement a platform agreement platform terms and conditions they might be called a sas license in some cases they may be called a software license um it doesn't really matter what they are called um what you will look at from from both a general commercial and a legal perspective is what what is being offered under the product and what the terms and conditions actually provide for so there's no real difference between calling something a sas agreement and a sas license and even in the sas agreements we draft we incorporate the concept of licence within them particularly with respect to you know granting certain limited likes certain limited licenses with respect to access and use and certainly limited licenses with respect to the use of ip okay i'll find another question so there's a question here about euler's so do you recommend all end users sign a euler eg under an enterprise model a company might expect all employees to download an app but they haven't signed a sas agreement um yeah great question i'd say yes we generally do recommend that all end users sign a euler particularly if they're creating some sort of account or some sort of account is created for them as an end user to log on and use the platform um often we see if if the end users are accessing the platform via a mobile app they'll accept or tick to accept some sort of end user license agreement before they can use the the app um and it's just going to make sure it has those restrictions there that in there that paul mentioned you know the fact that they shouldn't do anything um to you know anything illegal they shouldn't upload any dodgy content they shouldn't scrape the platform they shouldn't try and reverse engineer it um and also making it clear that any content that they upload um that they give a license to the platform to use that content i suppose another important thing that you might want to make sure is clear in an end user license agreement is what is going to be done with the data that they they put in there for example in you know an employee context an employee over who's signing up who's accepting a euler might be transferring or sharing some information that they consider particularly sensitive or personal that they might not want to share with their employer a euler should make clear what's being done with that information of course the employer should make that clear to the the employee as well just in case by chance they don't read the euler um but but the euler will cover those sorts of issues as well um so i think that's that one yes the short answer is yes we do generally recommend all end users sign a euler and it doesn't have to be a big enterprise agreement it can just be that short simple terms and conditions uh paul do you want to take the next one sure another question here would love to hear what market practice is for data ownership arrangements in the context of b2b sas arrangements or agreements um so that's a really good question um so i think the the standard position is that the the business customer will will definitely retain all data that they input into the sas um and they'll typically give you know under from a legal perspective a really limited license to the um to to the sas provider to use that data for the purpose of providing the site the service and then sometimes we might try to expand that a little bit in some contexts i'll mention here in terms of the data as it relates to ip of the sas provider will we we try to we advise and we try to make sure that the sas provider will always retain all of the obviously all of the ip that's been developed in in um in putting together the sas itself and the platform but we also want the sas provider then to own any developed ip in any way whatsoever and so we draft that really broadly so that if any any new ip is generated in connection with the platform whether it's sort of derivative works or improvements or enhancements whether it's whether you know including whether they arise from feedback that's been given by customers that's a really important thing so if a customer gives feedback on a particular sas platform and the sas owner then makes improvements to the platform we want to make sure that the sas owner owns all of the ip and all of the data connected there um but but linking it back a little bit more to data i mean certainly the customer will own all data um and and and typically and certainly more complex business arrangements you'll see array you know provisions included that allow for the customer to extract all of their data so there will be a positive obligation on the sas provider to extract that data and give it back to the customer in a form that is acceptable and readable to them at the end of the process but but any other data that is generated by the sas provider will be owned by the sas provider and so a little bit then i guess the interface between between data and ip you might include provisions like the capacity for the sas provider to anonymize all of the data and generate analytics and improvements on the system so you know in short to pull it all together the business customer will own all of their data very rarely will you ever see that that data will be provided across on an ownership basis to the the sas provider but the sas provider may look to use some of that data to generate improvements to the platform or to generate other products and we would look to make sure that the sas provider had the full range of rights would allow them to use that data and commercialize it again subject to full compliance with things like the privacy act okay nice uh another question we have here is an interesting one so it says are you able to flip the context somewhat today and provide some insights into some of the more common contractual issues that may arise when contracting with sus entities so yeah i think this is a good um question to discuss because even as a sas provider you may also be contracting with sas entities um so i mean a lot of the issues we've spoken about today are still important but we're just viewing them from the the customer's perspective so i think a really big one is ip ownership um yeah as paul said as as the customer you're going to want to make sure that you continue to own all of your your pre-existing and background ip and if if what the sas is doing for you is developing or creating some new intellectual property and that's what you're paying for the ip clause should reflect that and that's one that can get you sort of it can be glossed over because it can be complicated language but we really need to make sure that the ip clause reflects the commercial arrangement um another one is just the payment schedule make sure you're clear on um when when your fees are due um what's what's the situation if you want to cancel halfway through or terminate early do you have the option to do that um now the sas provider might have their own obligations to not include any sort of unfair clauses in their agreement whether or not they've done that is another question so you you need to make sure um that yeah you're happy with the payment schedule and you you're aware of your rights to terminate the agreement if if you don't want to um continue um i think it's important to make sure that you're not providing any warranties that you can't meet or any indemnities that are unreasonable usually in when you're the sort of the customer in a contract you shouldn't be providing too many indemnities under the contract so it's important to look out for clauses that say you know the customer indemnifies the provider for a breach of all clauses something like that that's probably going to be um quite unfair and not something that you want to you'll want to agree to um another thing to think about is how important is this sas to your business if it's a really is this a business critical sas that you're signing up to you're really heavily relying on it in order to run your business you're going to want to see those really solid slas that paul mentioned and and you're going to want to make sure that they're going to you know the the sort of remedies available to you are going to be appropriate um and another if you're relying on this business for say on the sas platform for compliance reasons um for example are you a health care provider and you're using this as your patient management system you're going to want to make sure that um yeah they're complying with their privacy obligations um and that they're providing warranties um that they that they are indeed complying with the privacy act um so yeah a few few things to think about there when um when you are the customer in this situation thanks just so now the question here is if you need a power of attorney for the platform how do you include that in the agreement or does that need to be separate um and so i guess if i interpret that as a question about whether you know the sas platform itself deals with powers of attorney and whatnot um that that's one issue but but more broadly i would just say you know in response to this question powers of attorney have have very particular prescribed legal requirements for them to be binding and effective um and so you know they can be incorporated into the agreement um but it's it's just essential that that you know i would say in this case that you work with legal advisors to make sure that the the the formal requirements of the power of attorney are satisfied that maybe they may be enabled to be incorporated into the agreement um or they may be it may be used separately um you know our general approach with in respect to powers of attorney or anything is to try to get the agreement as streamlined as possible but um but we're always conscious of where there is any any sort of formal requirement um you know a formal legal document um that that that takes precedence so we're looking for as frictionless as possible in the contracting arrangements but um we don't want we never want to overstep the boundaries and and risk um things not being enforceable so i hope that gives a little bit of guidance in respect to that question there's probably a little bit more information in the background um but but hopefully that gives a little bit of just some steering on that point okay well i think we'll have to wrap up the q a there thanks so much for putting in your questions and we can also answer any further questions um afterwards so hopefully what we've spoken about today has has been helpful and informative for you um and if you are ready to get started on the legals for your business we'd love to see you come on board as a legal vision member so you'll have um access to our huge team of in-house lawyers including paul and me so some of the exciting features of membership include that unlimited document drafting reviews so this includes the drafting of your sas contract it includes trademark applications in australia and new zealand it really includes quick turnarounds on all of this work we get this done really quickly for you so you can move on so this is essentially a membership for unlimited business legal services so as a member you'll be able to book unlimited legal advice consultations and get all of your businesses legal needs sorted for an affordable monthly fee and this just helps to ensure cost certainty um so webinar attendees are eligible to receive a complimentary consultation to discuss how we can help you with your sas agreement so it's really easy to book just leave your contact details in the survey that will appear after the webinar ends and you can also email the reply at email address on the screen and mention that you watched this webinar so paul and i look forward to speaking to hopefully many of you soon um that's all for today thanks so much for joining us thank you you