Empower Your Business with B2b Sales Automation in NDAs

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can first introduce Manuel who made it finally after vacation welcome back um so he is uh the kickboxer who turned sales Playbook into a seven figure Powerhouse and hey he knocks out the sales strategies and um yeah I'm happy that he's here with a background from sales in various various industry Tesla Accenture and now doing push-ups every morning morning I think not 1,000 every morning but that's something he can do floran he's The Mastermind behind the big chz competitions but also behind the operations of sales Playbook and so his background is he was in the SS ICT investor Club responsible for the operations sitic many of you might know and co-founded also several other projects and last but not least Valentine my business partner in crime so I built many many products and especially like him no one is Building Products as efficient and still maintaining quality so with his background founded startups CH track soft scaled to over 100 employees hey but I wanted to say I think we have a team here which definitely has done some um companies build up sales marketing teams and not only for the own companies but also for a lot of projects which they were involved myself I'm working in product marketing like always in the intersection from Marketing sales product development for B2B companies since I was 16 years and built a lot of software products around and also building teams to align them in marketing and sales to be more efficient hey what we are showing you today is uh something we haven't done the first time so we are showing you the first insights from our report the sales efficiency report and uh we did some other projects before so the fourth time is the marketing automation report we helped some customers like my sign with the e-commerce automation report or scale up you might know the company or the book scaling up from ver Harish that's the German um subsidiary or the cyber security study zero trust from uh the United Security providers you might heard of them and so we did a few of those studies and this time we really want to tackle the sales topic with our sales efficiency report because I think as you also saw that many many struggle like hey there's a sea of AI tools and it's really overwhelming and yeah three years ago no one was really um no anything with AI and Automation in sales that much and now it changed completely so we have the question with ask like can it really reevolu revolutionize the sales work can it really uh fulfill like there's no sales people anymore needed we don't know yet but this is the research for we're looking for the best working uh use cases we are looking for insights that we all share in the end uh when we publish the stud like after the the summer vacation and hope to see that we get a few insights today that you have a uh some some some great insights that you can also share this whole study yeah so what we do we do it in three parts the first part will be that the state of AI Manuel takes off and shares this uh studies like hey what about the where did the leads come from uh what the companies are doing today we have about 130 respondents so far so we did a German study an english- speaking study and also are a pre- study and this is like the summary you get right from Manuel and then I take over and show you the most popular use cases I try to show you it live that you see how this actually can be done and U maybe you can copy and last but not least we have this round table where Valentine and fuan joins back in and hey you you can also ask questions the whole time so please uh take your time and then ask questions we will you can prioritize them and we can take them in the end and what especially is great if you also want to react and if now Manuel takes over there's coming one poll uh which you can answer but uh you can also send him smiley faces if he does something right or you can send him smiley faces if he doesn't do it very right so hey the stage is soon yours um Manuel here is the first topic the state of AI in sales and the topic inbound L outbound or traditional approaches yeah thanks so much uh for sharing and for the great intro I think one of the things we've really seen which was reflected by nearly 150 people already answering this this question here right um people say all the time on LinkedIn and in beer conversation like Alan is dead Co calling is dead like my website doesn't get any traffic SEO is destroyed by chat GPT um and that's like just the point that like it's not one or the other anymore like this whole fight around like hey outbound is the way or inbound is the way I think that's going away because just outbound is getting really crowded like we see cold email Effectiveness even like our own stuff that we did like at sales P book with client like two years ago just basically take an email list scrape you from somewhere uh put quick question in a subject line always follow the same template you you literally could two years ago and get 80% opening rates like 30% reply rates 5 to 10% booking rates it's just less effective in in a order of probably magnitude by like two to three times if you use the same stuff that you did like even 18 months ago so the the value of trust like does somebody trust you as the messenger you as the company does somebody trust the channel just became drastically hard to masterer and we see like inbound measures becoming a lot more relevant here so inbound is still having tremend success on be like LinkedIn condent be white paper speed um uh for example like conferences like or a webinar such as these ones where you have like high value condent like trustworthy assets to scale trust instead of destroy it and I think I still remember when we had the CEO of cognism or sales automation tech company that that basically went really quickly from like five to 50 million plus INR they're like look I have 60 sdrs and we're sales automation Company B automating A lot of traditional SDR jobs because the human component is so important but it once the channel becomes attractive it also gets saturated like once it was e becoming easy for people to send a lot of cod emils people did and then people discovered LinkedIn Automation and they did There's now even the emergence of like voice Bots that call call you like from a robot so that channel might become more saturated as well so it's on one on the ALB so like how can you do better right how can you be more personalized but even more relevant that's the key point and how can you combine an outbound motion with like building up trust and traction via inbound so a few like very simple cases for example like how can you do outbound towards what's called a value field like invite for a webinar or we ran like a pretty successful campaign with a client it's like hey look the participation to this to this physical event is normally 100 bucks but like here's a voucher how to how you can get invited for free and it was like really great response at zero negative replies right there's other things which we're exploring right now like call calling where you see live in hopspot or like your theum of choice who's who's available to call or not like having like potentially two to three times higher dial through rates which is maximum effective and then what we also see uh and that that's maybe like a topic of like the next slide then is what's what's effective what's not on uh the channels right I mean everybody goes to trade shows and conferences everybody does emails everybody does basically a lot of like newsletters that are really like marketing heavy like they look great but not conversion optimized very few companies do like really deep content like not not like the Click bity webinar which is s basically self-promotion or the basically like the the worksheet that is only like one page or like the the white paper which is only five pages not adding value right but very few people publish an ebook with literally 50 to 100 Pages which is the manual to execute on what you build right it's G giving all the value for free very few companies are consistent on on social media on LinkedIn or what whatever the channel is like it can be letters to somebody's post right and do that consistently uh over time like over quarters and year so we see that across basically all channels right I mean why the CEO of like an SMI or dox company is like a top LinkedIn influenc the person is not doing it because they have too much time but because it's probably the lowest customer acquisition cost channel to generate demand and generate trusted scale and then having much higher conversions on the outbound side so this is an interesting chart I find because like more than 130 people mention like hey they they invest like a ton of that time um at trade chosen conferences and individual emails very few do so via like not so conventional uh measures like sending like out sending a book sending like a box of chocolate sending uh basically regularly tagging people and engaging on LinkedIn content of their customers of their clients right and I think there's still a lot of wiggle room how to engage better on this um on on these like under serveed channels and we saw this an example we we send everybody um basically like a physical book for Christmas instead of very few people send physical Christmas cards very few people even send like a Christmas newsletter like which is not the thing you want to read at Christmas but some people send me like pictures on Via WhatsApp and like hey my neighbor in this co-working space just open your package with like a book a physical book of 119 pages and he gave it to me and it's really interesting can we have a call on this and these are then where the say Cycles are really short like conversions are really high average contract value is really high because you're not talking discounts you're not talking endless uh amounts of calls so it drastically lowers customer acquisition costs if you can um exploit some what is on the surf channels um I I could talk for like 10 more minutes probably around case studies on this and like what what clients see but I think that's also for the Q&A so happy to give back to Mike all right hey the next uh topic which we um analyze is use cases um or we call it templates which are sequences um in the sales process somewhere in the buyer Journey where really can profit from benefit from uh small automations to make the whole thing more efficient so what we were asking is like many many use cases um how do you see this use case um in terms of value in terms of benefit that you benefit as a company and also in terms of um turnover uh uh or more Reven Revenue that you get actually out of it something so we saw those two use cases U CRM data M maintenance the the enrichment of the CRM and also the follow-ups um which maybe refer to the question we just discussed before um they were mentioned most um that these are the use cases which people see as the most efficient or or beneficial ones for their companies and what I did is I um prepared a live use case to see what this could look like and how these processes were implemented in in some companies so we luckily had the experience to use those use cases and and test it out and I can show you how we did it and um first is two use cases but maybe the disclaimer I think it's important to not just to pick those two and copy it I mean of course you can but I think it's as important to really understand like where is the bottleneck in my buyer Journey where do I have the um the problem is it like in the lead generation or is it in the lead scoring where in the whole customer journey is it not really working efficiently for me and I would start there with the lwh hanging fruits and we also provide a framework for identifying those lwh hanging fruits of the best use cases but let's dive in first the use case so what I have here is use case number one the CRM enrich M so I first guide you through and then I quickly make a live demo I try to uh keep the flight level reasonable for everybody otherwise I could dive in as Manu said it's a topic we really love and so we could dive in for uh for hours but first CRM enrichment so we usually work with HubSpot and uh we see that there is a lot of data in it already some data is manually typed in but there is other data where where it comes from let's say calendar entries so if you have a meeting scheduled they have you have other participants or if you have a contact form and people send in questions or you have a newsletter subscription or you have a this webinar which we registered via LinkedIn um or like say a website chat or a customer support a landing page for white paper downloads phone calls business cards from exhibition you name it I mean you know that and it's it's usually the case that there is a lot of data in HubSpot which maybe just has the name and sometimes email address and phone number also visitor identificators um like albacross lead info sales viewer so like where they try to map the IP address to the company and find profiles which fit or the same thing for LinkedIn if someone follows you or uh in LinkedIn maybe there have you have a new like or comment you could automatically get this data in HubSpot which many many people do but then what do you do with it you first want to validate it and um you need to understand okay is this email is it correct does it really work but also is there other topics like is there a phone number um is the company still up to date and um what you also want to do is you want to understand if LinkedIn and website gives more information so you scrape LinkedIn and you can go into details and see like ah okay he is um explaining what what his skills are he last experience you can see on the website what topics they're tackling right now so you really can make sure that you get data also like how how fast are they growing which industry is it do they have any job ads published uh what language are they working with um like from the website also from the LinkedIn profile and last but not least also the lead research so you may be want to find out did they publish the recent blog articles about the topic X or what is the name of the white paper or we can even dive in more into the about section of a website and then do it really automatically that you find out hey who are the board members what projects did they lately publish or what is the customer list they have and so on so you can do those let's say sales development reps very very accurate and then automatically um since a few months now very automated and the tools which I mentioned here is Clay is basically the spread sheet with superpowers that you integrate with lot of lot of other tools here you see like Apollo prospo Lua cognism drop contact or bombora which is a data provider and monitors the web for search queries or also other activity yeah and then when you have this data you also need need to make sure um that you calculate it somehow what we recommend doing is that you make a score that you feed in this data and then you define like hey what is important for you so let's say if the company has between 50 and 500 employees the position is somewhere in sales and maybe also the um the the growth rate of uh of the companies is is a certain stage and also the job ads they publish they should be mainly in the section of Marketing sales or Business Development so there's a lot of um very individual questions you can answer and and in the end I want to have a very perfect profile sent back to my crn in HubSpot or whatever it is and those are score just one example the validation part which I'm just showing here and now I'm heading over to clay.com um this is first of all like an an option to Waterfall some um some some attributes like I want to find the work email and then if Apollo doesn't find it maybe prospo finds it and so on but you can also uh go uh deeper in validate the email address with several providers which are interconnected with with Clay but then also what I just said uh you go and look at that all the webinar participants and now you can see okay what are they writing on on their LinkedIn profile but then you go so what is their main language um you go maybe to what's the company profile on LinkedIn when is the last refresh of this company profile um then you go to my how many LinkedIn profile followers did they have or maybe what is getting more interesting is now we enrich this uh information based on website so you can scrape the website or you can enrich this information based on okay dive into the about section and really find out what is unique compared to competition um give me some ideas and so on so you can do a lot of those um those those those enrichments but you can also calculate stuff so like do the ICP I really want to have the ideal customer profile and if these matches give me back a score between zero and one or in percent and now calculate maybe the uh company a bit higher in value than the title because it could be the wrong person but the right company and then you get a score if this is a match or not and this can be then saved back to the HubSpot in a very easy way uh and you get a priority list um right automatically every time when you get a new contact entry and also see here the job ads so this is like the process number one the process number two is the same or similar approach but with a follow-up section so following up is something which most people say it's really difficult and the use case is very popular but what I show you here is um that you have uh a last engagement and the last engagement can be for instance um this webinar we have or you have this poll you just answered so we really Define it like it has to be B directional so it has to be something which people are actively answering to you they collaborating they have a ation and we see it as a webinar could be also the survey or also our Benchmark studies going in this direction it can be meetings which you have with teams or zoom and you have the meeting assistant writing down this stuff or you have a chatbot or even a walk-in or onsite visit I think this is all on this is all a directional feedback which you can actually learn from zero party data from someone who's really answering um questions or giving you a hint then what you do is you categorize it like okay is it this information let's take the example from um from from this webinar and when you said like ah okay I think uh traditional tactics are more important then I got a topic from you and maybe it's a categorization I can um make from uh the input and then it's the result is like okay he's not interested or he says he want to have a meeting request it really depends on the data you get but you also create building blocks and buildings block I call personalized topics like um maybe you want to know um what's problem he talks about what are the next steps is he really interested or in this type or in this example here um is there any I can recommend to this person because they filled out the Benchmark study and they showed me a many many things and this is by the way also happening in The Benchmark I share here so when you take part of the survey in the end you get two recommendations for exactly uh based on the data you typed in here yeah and last but not least um you want to generate a template and the template is maybe um something like hey since we last spoke with a contact owner over the last five weeks ago I was wondering how is it going with the implementation of the Salesforce CRM so whatever it was you can either generate the whole sentence or you can use the template and use the the building blocks from before and then in the end draft a message or send it directly and for this you have several tools via LinkedIn or with a email and the example I can show you here is you go um and send it over to the campaign and then I can show you the results here um just opening a sequence and here maybe you see ah okay here you have a very cryptical template but when you once uh fill it in with the real variables then you can say like hey you have a the sales manager position and your company have been growing 18% from 50 people blah blah so it can be very specific and it's just an example but you can be uh very precise as soon as you know information and that's where the follow-up becomes very interesting because you not starting from something which is not there but you you're starting from a feedback you got from this uh person okay so uh I just quickly go back uh for my last Pro tip um what is really getting cool if you have the option to generate text not only based on the input from this Conta but also from uh rag which is a retrieval augmented generation which is is like a super fancy new technology to make sure that your documents and your company website or your white papers are learned and trained and and and and stored for a fast retrieval and you augment the usual prompt you augment the the usual question you ask with very specific topics I did it on my website if you head over to that one you can check it out uh there is a small AI helper where you can try it out like this is having the marketing automation report learned it has my website learned and it's really interesting how you can make sure the tonality and everything works totally different though it's not hallucinating anymore it's much more precise and this is what um R is able to to power so this is like an example of a second use case and now to finalize this section um as I said in the beginning I think it's really good if you don't just start by okay let's start with some fancy use cases really try to find out okay where is the bottleneck we built a framework for finding these so where in the buyer Journey do you really see you need most U input or most efficient improvements and then uh there's of course the underlying fundamentals technology people and process to finally have the result that you fill it in you have an alignment and you figure out okay we really need in the follow-up process some help because there is really bad conversion rates and then um it's about finding from many many use cases the one which has uh not so much um effort to do and has the biggest impact so which is the resulting impact feasibility metrics for many many use cases but then pick only one to three and test it iterate it and improve yeah so this is the uh use cases we just wanted to show also live and now before we go to the expert Round Table um we have like one more question and then I will squeeze out our experts uh for insights don't forget to ask your questions as well while the question comes up maybe just um one fa um while you all answer like the poll here um what Mark show 100% a cond that uh on all the potential with with AI and with tools before you now go back to the drawing board and maybe you have VP says tuning into this and go back to see like hey uh Mark here and like the sales team told me we need seven tools to be effective today um that it often boils down to fundamentals right I ask like around of like 50 people live on a panel like who of you uses cat GPT and Genera everybody had their hands up it's like yeah great we use all the tools like okay how many of you ask it before going into an important sales call what are the Quantified like Financial costs of inaction per month of the decision Mak like a chief human resource officer of not fixing the problem might come been solves within three months and all the 50 hands went down so nobody asks JP or like nobody does very simple things like have you kly with like one more field of like biggest and most important challenge in your field for example or uh just like make sure like just the core fundamentals skills of a sales rep augmented by technology so just as a call to action don't go back and S like before I don't have seven tools I cannot start with this but just Embrace like the quick wins with that the low hanging fruit that Mark just mentioned yeah there's also in the feedback here there still the majority they try a lot of things some work but the progress is slow and this is just reflecting what it just said yeah um all right hey um we have shared also uh the slides um but now we dive in into the the questions which we uh maybe start off with Florian and uh I I want to start with the um if a more General one I mean Automation and AI is great and of course we are really into it and we love it and we see like many many many options but sometimes I really feel there's like some groundwork missing um maybe floran you can tell me from the Practical operational point of view what do you really have to have in place uh to start automating yeah great one um so Manu was diving into that a little bit and touch on that I think what we've seen what we are seeing a lot of times that icp's ideal customer profiles by personas are not clearly defined right and we talking talking here about also companies that are quite mature um with existing but also with with with new bu personas right they they go into new markets but they don't nail nail these two things and here again it's the same thing applies with monu said uh for Co preparation also if you prepare to go to a new market new new buyer person of course you can do interviews with the with with with potential buyers right to understand them better to better understand what are their problems what what's what are they measured against at the end of the day by by their boss or at the end of the year um and here chpd is is immensely helpful as well to get a first understanding how how how what's important for a b Persona and and what's what are their targets what are their typical incentives right so ICP B Persona have that nailed what what's the problem you're solving um and then also have a solid messaging I can he just very briefly chump it's really the very Basics right um I don't want to go too long on with that but it's it's what we have here uh have a high level Market validation um Define uicp you buy a personas and then the problem and and your solution if you have that plus you have good case studies testimonials I think that that goes already a long way um then with regard to messaging here just very briefly out of my um album book a few things again problem solution and have a basic basic messaging framework uh when you do for example called called emailing um have that here um let's go here relevant social proof challenge solution impact and and a call to action so these These are the very very Basics um but very often I don't see them in in place before um yeah people start to automate I think super super key that you nailed them and that you tested them well before you scale your outbound motion hey that's a great insight and also um don't forget to download his book I love it the outbound Playbook is really valuable it just published a few days ago uh where do they find it um on the sales playbook.com dound yeah maybe we can share here a link I will try that if you can add it to the handout Mark that would be fantastic um yeah so I just send the link uh maybe just to add one thing to to what Flo just mentioned here often people try to solve go to market and B2B sales today in Reverse right it's like oh it doesn't work so let's add more reps uh let's add more tech let's add more volume and the entropy like the CH only increases right like it's not easy to fix like your ideal customer profile once you have 10 people asking what's the ideal customer profile so or then doing more geographies like going to the us when you have one million from like 10 different segments doesn't fix the problem it's just like more colleges more more icps and so on and I think that's also one of the questions from M what can I do as a one in sales team to generate leads for meetings I use emails and call calls so very often this boils down to doing a bit less in a sense right um and I think like one thing I mean sometimes it's language we need to fix in in sales today m not absolutely nothing personal I looked a bit at what you do in business development um out of out of colog I think right um really cool stuff but it's not about having more leads and more meetings that's custom acquisition cost that's work somebody needs to do especially if you have a small sales team of just you in your case Mato so what you want this qualified pipeline as in future revenue from ideal customer profile customers or clients that have a high commitment so for example somebody just messaged me like literally when I went to mata's profile to look who's asking the question like I saw a popup like hey uh this contact gave me your contact details and I want to have the same sales coaching as they do we get budget from via this funding source can we have a check so I like what's your phone number can I call you like yes here's my phone number please call me after 1 p.m. let's go so that's like identical K identical use case identical ICP buer Persona topic identical offering pretty much like funding confirmed High commitment versus like a lot of people just like coming in with random things and that's very often the challenge that destroys especially product companies I mean it destroys agencies since forever that agencies do 10 offerings with five people uh for for 10 different icps or they never defined but as a product company it just doesn't work you cannot build 10 products for 10 clients yeah hey let me let me hand over to Valentine with the question um yeah there is as man just also pointed out there's a lot of misconception also how how does it work and especially if AI in sales Valentine what do you see as the common misconception um what's the what's the case there I mean when we use it or we use it for our clients basically the the issue often is that you sometimes expect unrealistic things basically now I put this API or the chat chat GTP or something else then it will be super creative and solve the problems or like the underlying problems but it doesn't do that because it's not really creative right it's just it just basically checks what you input and then at the high the highest probability it gives you an output but that's not really something you can't expect an answer where you don't you don't know what how you even ask so basically when you write when you when you think hey I need to write those amazing emails that will convert J GTP will not write you those it can inspire you some basically some variances based on your inputs but you need to write a good email and you need to understand your client and you need to understand what their needs and pains are and then you can write some variances and then personalize it a little bit but if you don't have that information or you don't know who you target or you don't know what maybe the adjectives are and the emails will also be right and so it's it's important basically to understand first what is the right way what is the way I can actually reach my audience and then CB can help you in some automated typical efficiency things to write a thousand emails instead of just 10 but it will not write you a thousand great emails if you don't actually know how to write a good email but when you say creativity I mean I'm interpreting your qu your answer like you're referring to the data the input that needs to be high quality um if I'm right but it Le need to be the right information to input right and how do you make it sure that that it's the right information and it's validated yeah in one way is basically that you have the right sources where you gather that information and other ways also to understand what what your goal is or who you target basically with the email example is basically you need to know how you need to write that what kind of language you should use if you should use a highly technical language or if you should very simple words or if the if you if the email is short or long right we use when we send those emails we test them a lot and and we try a lot of variances and the best emails are the ones which you basically where where you know what you need to write that you that you fit the right paino and then you can maybe write two or three of those great emails and then basically the AI support can multiply those but if we don't write those great example emails or don't really understand and just like have some LinkedIn profiles and say right an email for that person then those don't perform because chgb doesn't really understand how people react to it it just has a probability or when we use chatbot right we build some chat Bots conversational chatbots with AI supported the goal is basically to answer specific questions to an audience in the tourist sector in this case so people come to those chatbots and they sometimes they want to know the weather most people want to know the weather which AI already can't answer so you need to have the right information there but then as a follow on maybe they want to know what can I do this afternoon and then you also have often those problems of hallucinations or that that not even hallucinations but in tourist regions the seasons actually are super important right if it's summer or winter and Jet GDP doesn't really know if it's summer or winter so you need to be very crucial in in in configuring those cases so basically to to give a smart answer but then the the good thing is what what AI can help you is to understand what they asking AI is amazing in basically people ask the same question in a 100 different ways and AI basically can then always point you to the right potential answer but which we can't just rely on the intelligence of the the universe basically the great answers come back that didn't work well Mark just show showed before that that drone need a jetbot which when you make it too simple and basically just an FAQ then it's too dumb again and the AI part doesn't solve any problems anymore so those kind of like it's like AI is just basically it it it can scale you up or it can make you smarter if you're already smart if you're not really smart or you don't understand what you're doing it it will crap in crap out it will not really solve the problem and sometimes people feel like oh now I have this llm I just can't put it in there and they will write me a great letter or a great email and that's just not true cool part hey I have a bit different question uh the angle of cold outbound is it really that because that's the other um like stream you get in LinkedIn or what about cold calling and I think when you already write this book which I just published floran maybe you can ask or we can answer those question FL mute yeah happy to take that um sure I think what we've seen over the last years is that rates Connection rates um reply rates and so on dropped I think that's that's very clear was the reason L talked to the sales leader who reflected up on that and and mirrored that opinion um however if you have the basics in place very often you still get decent replies um so it's not I would not say it's that uh I hope many people are going to say it's that Co C are not working cold emails are not working and our clients are booking in the meantime uh the calls um uh but it's definitely not that right and what what what is true Connection rates are down however um if you um have more channels and I think that was reflected on one of the charts right you do also do webinars um you have Summits you you are active on LinkedIn so you have more touch points and the more touch points you have um the more likely somebody's is going to take the call to reply buy and so on if if they already received um something from you um and then also uh regarding Co calls in particular um they worked very well uh for us and our clients um I would say in the last uh 12 months or so um and also with with tools such as cognism where you have direct direct phone numbers and you very often get get to the decision makers uh quickly I mean that's that's a huge game changer as well um so no it's not that Connection rates overall are down the more important even more important now to have a motion which is inbound Le outut such as Manuel suggested hey perfect hey we have one more question and then the last poll I I would uh ask you Manuel I mean what about the measuring all of this uh success in in different words how do you measure an efficient sales process how do you do that I think the the sales process needs to be measured by by kpis right and it depends top funnel bottom funnel like and so on I would always keep things as simple as possible but not simpler I think what a lot of people do is they focus on leads and Reps and um and basically that that's it right the meetings so that that's not what you want that's just more cost you die faster right as a small company what you want is is more qualified Pipeline on top which is if if pipeline generation lies in marketing on sales but somebody needs to make sure like there's enough P qualified weight the pipeline hops but there's even like a forecast and weighted pipeline you can exactly see are you 76% of your Q3 quota like the pipeline is fill how much of that is closed what is in which St then what you see once you get closed to product Market fit or you go to market and your sales motion getss better with or without AI quite frankly uh is it becoming more efficient what's your customer acquisition cost and over like 325 clients over the last five years I've seen only like five of them literally measuring costom acquisition cost in AUM but I mean take a proxy how many hours does it plus referral fees plus commission plus like marketing spend does it take you to acquire a client and be pretty specific which was the channel did you pay like 50 K and pay ads or was it just referral from like your board member and you don't even need to pay referral fees and that that just take you like one call or five calls plus like tons of meeting work and then I think efficiency what's underestimated is like how great are those customers that you win like are is just like a pain in the a to to close them and then even more to fulfill what you promised or are is like you win them once and they stick with you for years and they bring two friends and they give you a testimonial which has you close three more customers so I mean that that's like really important that you measure like say weighted pipeline booked ICP revenue and then as leading indicates how does velocity conversion and average con value evolve like should go up obviously and how does net revenue retention once you had in seven figures at least evolve like how much revenue do you do with the clients that you initially want moving forward I think AI can help you there like I mean still like this this cohort based like retention it's it's like a pain to solve it in sales for hopspot pipe drive whatever I mean yes level ask to cat GPT and like hey that's these are my clients like please do the cohort analysis by like segment and Cat GPT might do a better job then you see that quite effective right now so with the easiest answer at the end I think we close this round uh of course uh return on invest I think it's always a very tricky one um very IND individual and I would just close this with hey if you haven't taken part um answer this question here so please start uh feedbacking and also fill out the Benchmark report if you haven't um I would be really cool if you get finally the uh answers in and we definitely will share all these um this insites with you again so um especially Flor and me will be typing uh over the uh over the holidays or the vacation in summer and then make sure that we get a lot of results out of it thank you since we don't have any more questions thank you for taking part and have a good start into the week thanks so much thanks so much thank you