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all right welcome to another episode of closers or losers my name is jeremy miner the chairman uh founder and chairman of seventh level i'm here with my business partner ceo uh the smart guy of both of us matt ryder uh zooming in from our scottsdale office here in the united states zooming into our international office in sydney australia uh and so i'm gonna look at you and i'm gonna look away kind of both time we're recording this oh you want some lights on and sorry i got to turn some lights blank guys mean to me all the time so we're gonna today we've got an interesting subject we're going to talk about like how do you determine so let's say if you're you're in you know your business to business you're selling b2b or you're selling you know business to consumer b2c how do you determine if it's going to be a one-call close how do you determine if it's going to be a two-call close how do you determine if it's going to be three or four o'clock close or how do you determine what your sales cycle looks like [Music] matt what are your uh what are your initial thoughts on that subject i know i think we've overlooked something that's really important which is today of filming it is jeremiah's birthday it is my birthday i am a young 25 today thank you very much i know i look like i'm 25 so happy birthday buddy happy birthday i was telling people in the office they're like how you know how old are you and i'm like man i'm 40 freaking five today i'm either 40 yeah i'm 45 and people like holy hell man i thought you were like 32 or 34. some guy said 20. it's almost like you're the boss i'm like you know what i'm just going to identify as a 35 year old because that's what i look like so i'm offended if you call me 45 i'm going to identify as a 35 year old that's what i'm saying i was thinking about identifying as 65 and tapping into my 401k i think you should identify the 65 year old captain at 401k so this is an interesting subject we you know we i think we got this question from somebody that just randomly you know messaged in our facebook group you know sales revolution like hey how do you determine if it's a one call two call close five call close 12 call close and we're like you know what we've never really covered that on the podcast it'd be an interesting subject to talk about and you know a lot of it is really determined on if you sell business to you know b2c which is you know stands for business to consumer if you're new to sales or if you sell b to b which stands for business to business meaning you're talking to companies and um you know organizations and you're selling you've got multiple decision makers compared to you sell b2c and there's either of one decision maker or maybe there's two decision makers like a husband and wife or something like that so a lot of it's really determined on which you're in yeah do you have a preference of which way you lean do you because the way that i look at it is like the shorter the process yeah and i could be wrong but the shorter the process the more reliant on really high quality sales skills yeah well the longer the process to a certain extent the more you can lean on the process to be able to do some of the indoctrinating and selling for you so like if i come in with some of our training that we do for teams and they're a very green team they like all intentionally extend the process make it very clear put homework in between you know what i mean and sort of try and have the process do some of the heavy lifting it depends right you know because i i come from both right like so in the four industries i sold in my almost 17-year set screws like 16 half years two of them were business to business b2b two of them were business to consumer b2c so i know both like the back of my hand so i've closed in b2c whereas a one call close and my other uh company i worked with it was a two call close now in b2b i sold where there was one company that i sold is usually about a four to five call close okay meeting close and there was another was a much longer sales cycle where the average rep it was taking them nine months to close the deal and i was able to shorten that cycle down to about three months which makes you a lot more money as a company and and that kind of stuff so there's definitely you can shorten the sales cycle why a lot of clients come to us you know we have a a client um that's a it's a small cap company out of boston i'm not gonna give the the name out but it's a small cap medical device company out of boston and i remember when that you know johnny custer so i remember when they came to us he's like hey man our sales cycles are nine months long sometimes a year we have to golf with them we have to take them you know we have to bring them lunch we have to do this it's like we have to whine and dine these guys and hospital administrators how do i shorten that down and so it's just because they were more interested in whining and dying and just talking about stuff and it just never led to anything it's like everybody was doing that right in b2b now there's some different regulations that are different now where you can do some of that stuff especially if you're selling pharmaceutical sales you can't take the doctor golfing and that kind of stuff because that's considered like you know it's to take my drugs you know type of thing so there's some different restrictions there but it's how do you shorten that sales cycle so do you want to you want to focus on b2c first let's talk to b2b or what do you want to do i think so i'd love to know your thought process it's like when you come into an offer like is it the first thing you decide like okay like how what are some of the determining factors as to why you would have a shorter or a longer sales like why would you go one call two call three goal four coal yeah let's okay so let's talk about more beta business consumer first then we'll talk to the b2b because there's some different angles there okay and it kind of might it might even be intermingle so in b to c the the way i if i wanted to do a one call close typically that product is not in my mind i can convert higher it's let's say that's products 15 20 50 100 000 even in business to b2b or b2c okay in my mind i'm going to create more trust by having a two call process then trying to have a 30 minute phone call and close a fifty thousand dollar sale if i want a full pay now if i'm okay with taking partial payments i could maybe get away with that but if i want to collect more revenue as a company and as a sales professional so you get paid more plus you you get the prospect more committed it's good for them as well i'm gonna do two call close now if i'm saying let's say if i'm selling something business to consumer and let's say that i'm doing door-to-door sales and i'm selling an alarm system that's you know a couple hundred bucks or the equipment's free and they're you know they're enrolling in their they're enrolling to a three or five year agreement or contract with the monitoring company and it's 50 60 bucks a month that's just a one call close that's like transaction yeah make the sale 30 minutes you're out the door um solar is a little bit different that's more of a two-call close because i'm coming to make the appointment when both decisions are making because decision makers are husband and wife let's say or whoever you're married to and then i'm coming back maybe later that day or the next day because i need both of them there to make that decision because it's a larger decision there may be getting a loan out for 30 or 50 grand okay that would be an example let's say if i sold a final expense insurance or you know life insurance something i'm selling like ten thousand dollar policies or twenty thousand our policies or maybe even a hundred thousand policies that's probably one call close now in that same example let's say that i work for usa you know let's say i work for a huge company okay in my i'm selling uh you know annuities and i'm selling investments to high net worth investors and let's say i'm selling some that's 500 grand a million 2 million or whatever that's probably going to be at least a couple of calls to sell that in the same really b2c market because i'm say i'm just selling to an individual okay so it really depends on who you're actually selling and i would say the price point of what you're selling you make sense yeah okay so i think if i could extract some few things if it's very transactional mm-hmm i think like one one call is going to be closed it's not super deterministic against the price yeah obviously price does play a role but they're they're probably you're probably not going to sell a 500 000 deal in one call right but um but anything that's really transactional you want to do that whereas anything where you're going to have like there's a lot of trust there's maybe a lot of ongoing uh a lot of ongoing support yeah right and you're gonna wanna build more trust in the sales process because like things that are transactional people are happy to just pay the money and get the thing because it's less risky for them even if it doesn't work out right it's it's less risk than 100 or something yeah okay cool would you would you take into account the the previous efficacy of the sales team or like how skilled that team is yeah i could take that in account too so let's say that if i'm selling something that's 10 or 15 grand or something there's certain sales teams that are highly trained let's say if they're nepq certified and we're we're training them ourselves we know they can convert when we can teach them how to do one call close pretty successfully now let's say we come into a new account and we're training those new sales people and they're all green they just don't have many sales skills or they have the wrong sales skills that's usually what happens most of the time with most companies we might teach them how to do a two call close and that same thing to sell the same 10 or 15 000 because they're able to build more trust so it's more like a first call discovery and then the second step is to either do a demo if you're selling something that needs a demo okay or the second step might be to you know you're coming back to them the next day or two with the proposal or the second step let's say if you sell more let's say if you're in the coaching industry you're selling a real estate training program or amazon or something we have a lot of clients in that you know companies that crush it it might be let's say their product is 30 grand and i'm going to do a one call discovery call then i'm going to invite them to a webinar that kind of goes over how the business model works it's maybe 20 or 30 minutes then i've got to schedule with them the next day to go over their questions and i'm going to close them on that okay so it just really depends you know you can do both i typically the more expensive the product is even in b2c and like i said we're going to talk about b2b in a minute because it's a little bit different the more expensive that product is like in one of the industries i sold like high-end events and high-end like e-commerce stuff that was like 30 50 80 grand well i could probably get away with the first call close for payment plans but i wanted to collect like 80 of them full pace so usually i would do the first call discovery that's 25 minutes 20 25 minutes get them emotionally involved with their problems they maybe really didn't realize they had and why they want to solve them and where they want to go and then you know we would email them some information like a webinar that went over what we did and how we solved certain problems so they're kind of like pre-sold and then we have a schedule let's say the next day i want to do that pretty quick the next year maybe the day after and i'm going through questions maybe even a possible proposal and then i'm closing them on that call now it could take them a couple days to get 30 grand in or 50 grand because maybe they have to sell stock or they have to sell bitcoin or they have to sell something or get it from their 401k but you've at least built a little bit more trust in that two-call close with okay yeah does the does the marketing play a role at all like would you would you like depending on like because obviously you can write a sales process but yeah the marketing will play a role true so would you would you then make adjustments based on like one of the things that i've done is um i've sort of built different pro for some of the companies that we train yeah um and sell for i've built different processes for different marketing yeah um like uh so like email leads are always usually really good right so if they have a cultivated email list then i'll have a shorter sales cycle so they'll come in and we'll create all the flowcharts they'll come in and then from there okay email they go straight here like they bypass certain parts of it yeah so like will you do an asset will you write your sales script based on the offer and the market and the team and then will you then change it based on the marketing or would you assess the marketing yeah i want to assess the marketing because let's say the company or let's say if you sell what you you might be talking some coaching stuff or influencer space if they're well known right they have a big brand or let's say the company you're selling for is coca-cola right you can change it a little bit now that's more b2b but so i'm just saying like there are you know there are different ways like if we look at close i o as an example or hubspot right they have like lots of brand awareness campaigns but then they would have email leads they also have facebook ads they have linkedin ads they have ig stuff they have everything sort of going on yeah so i would assume like what i would do yeah they have a lot of trust but i would you know a facebook lead is never going to be as good as an email lead yeah right like it's just not going to it's just the way it is like in in in sort of general speak right yeah i would have a different sales process so would you break it down that granular would you try and keep it somewhat cohesive across the and then kind of make adjustments on the fly it depends on the industry once again once again but it depends on brand awareness for sure let's say if i'm selling insurance and most of their leads are getting from mailers that 10 other companies are also calling at the same time right there's a little bit less brand awareness right because you've got 12 other companies calling and they're not even sure who's calling they just filled out some random form so sometimes it depends on the marketing let's say if you're you know selling you know amazon education to start an amazon business or sba or something like that and the influencer you're selling for a company amazon's well known but they're not well known at all you know their marketing is horrible i might feel better with the sales team doing a two call close so they can build that trust rather than one call close but let's say they're well known they're like the biggest in the space and they've been around for 10 years or whatever i might get away with more of a one-call close so that is that is important to take in an account for for sure i think it's a really interesting uh point that like i didn't know like i i've sort of obviously come up in more of the high ticket closing space and a lot of people listen to this are in that and we have a bit of a big swath of pretty much everyone yeah it's funny when you hear high ticket closing industry sales guys complain about leads when like in insurance yeah that leads being sold to 20 different companies at the same time and then you have aged leads yeah which means that you're dealing with leads that are between three and 12 months old so they expressed interest a year ago and that is your lead source yeah and they're okay with that you have the right skills like you know we've got a company that we're working with and training that they're taking age leads that are three months old and the ones they're getting a hold of they're booking like 70 of those but it's because of what we're having them ask in the beginning that triggers them to want to engage and want to open up even though they responded to this mailer three months before and it probably had 10 other agents called them yeah the other 10 other agents didn't have the right skills to ever book but if you have the right skills you can even call age leads and do it you know inbound leads from a warm bsl is it's not a difficult thing to sell like you know in the grand scheme of things compared to compared to some of the other industries okay let's let's switch over to b2b um okay so i'd love to hear your initial thought process like what's jeremy miner's what's your like okay i'm coming into a business yeah these guys are doing you know 50 million dollars a year yeah they have a shitty sales process what's your what's your favorite so with b2b a lot of it is determined not necessarily by price but how big the organization is and how many decision makers are involved right so if i'm selling business to business and i'm selling let's say uh uh merchant processing and i walk into a laundry mat that is owned by grandma jones that's probably gonna be a one call close right yeah that's b to b right maybe it's a two call close worst case scenario however let's say if i'm selling merchant processing and i get a meeting with coca-cola that is probably not going to be a one-call close that's going to be a first-call discovery with some type of c-level executive then i have to understand the right questions like okay john can you walk me through your company's decision-making process when it comes to solving problems like this whatever that problem was and there's like well first of all i need to talk with my department head kelly she's in charge of this and then it has to go up to our ceo mary s burt you know uh birchie and then you know we have to all the ultimate decision making is is by our ceo and then he has to get a proof in the board we're on like one layer two layer three layer four layer five layer then it's probably going to have to go to legal yeah i know how to navigate in that organization now right so my second call maybe it's a demo if i'm selling a software uh maybe the third call or meeting is in person and now it's a proposal to the board maybe the fourth appointment is two weeks later and it's a q a for the board maybe the fifth one is i have to bring in my it director with their i.t director to see how they're going to incorporate it see if it works i mean there's there's multiple things in there all that together could take three months if i know what i'm doing now if i don't know what i'm doing and i'm just winging it and i'm not setting up like the next step so in b2b it's important that you ask what are called commitment questions not to close them but to get them to commit to taking smaller steps next step demo next step proposal next step with the board next step with the cr whatever it is making smaller commitments smaller decisions that lead to what the ultimate decision of buying okay and we can control that process once you learn any pq or no emotional persuasion questions you learn how to navigate throughout that organization where they want to bring in other people rather than you meeting with the c-level exactly like okay i'll take the back email your proposal i'll take it back and we'll get back to you if you're interested you're done if that's the case you don't want to do that i love that soundboard i like that yeah okay so it's almost like there's that distinction between i guess whenever i want to inner circle calls like people always tell me i'm in b2b sales i'm like well stop are you um just because you're selling to a business like there is a distinction between enterprise yeah and like small to medium business right as multimedia and business is very b2c yeah it for sure yeah because you're selling the owner right so it's it's very emotional to them when you're selling a c-suite it's like the the emotion of the outcome is nowhere near so you have to tie it to the emotion of the outcome for them personally yeah well and that might not be monetarily it might be status and the ability to climb the ladder get promoted not get fired could be a status of not losing their job could be a lot of different things exactly so you've got to find the different motivators you need a process to do that you got to have a distinction between smb and enterprise because they're very different sales and smb is is basically just a an easier version of me to see it is right so that might be a two call close or three call close depending on what you sell right because let's say that you sell to a social media agency and you train them how to scale it or something i don't know your product and services cost a monthly retainer of eight grand a month with upfront 30 grand i'm just throwing out random numbers so that's probably not going to be a one call close it's probably going to be one call discovery help them find out their problems what they're looking for why they're looking to change maybe the second call is a demo of what you do or maybe a proposal okay and you might even need a third call and that could be let's say if it's a first call discovery saying call demo third call proposal and you can probably close that up there and that can be closed in maybe two or three weeks at the very most you know something like that however like you said if you're selling enterprise your first meeting with this c-level executive then she has to pull in this guy who's over the head of i.t even though he doesn't make the decisions he can still influence the decision right a lot of people don't understand like oh he's not a decision maker oh really well he's let's say you're selling some type of software well you're ahead of your i.t what do they have to do well they have to that they have to rely on the ct cto is going to have to be on board with this so they have to train it and what if they feel that this oh by the way i'm just throwing that software exam this software is could threaten their job or let's say if they're like oh my gosh it's gonna bog us down i'm gonna have to hire more people and then let's say everybody else is on board you've had two months of meetings but you never involved the cto ceos on board the cfo the ceo the department heads but man cto never was involved because you didn't know how to get them involved because they don't make decisions and even like the way that we used to sell we've changed and altered our b2b product for sales training for businesses sure to because of of the resistance that we got from existing sales managers yeah you know what i mean so we had to we were looking at this and we were going like man we like we are seen as a threat to these people whereas we want to be seen to be able to help them like i want to help you make more money i want to help you get better overrides get more commissions grow the team look like the rock star but all they saw us as was holy crap these guys are going to come in and replace me exactly so we had to shift our product our product offering yeah and how we sold it to be much more collaborative with the with them and then you know not you know have such long so we just changed the product so like every like we had to sit down and think about it based on the feedback that we were getting and and mold our process and our offering to match what the market was wanting and to minimize sales and to shorten our sales cycles yeah because we have to understand you brought up an excellent example let's say that we're offering sales training to a company and let's say we're first talking about sales manager the sales manager might feel threatened that oh my gosh these guys are 10 times better than me and they're going to replace me like they're going to bring in somebody to replace me because i'm not getting the job done so they feel threatened so going back to that example let's say the cto is never involved everybody else that you know the average you know ink magazine read an article and i don't know if you're aware but we just became contributors for inc magazine there you go maybe you didn't know that matt but we didn't know that prisoners yeah yeah yeah so i saw all the emails okay so now we're writing about two to three articles a month uh you know different sales training different stuff like that so make sure you guys look out for those for sure in ink magazine uh and they mainly target smb most of their readership is is smb that type of thing uh to their target but anyway so there's an article in there that's that and i've even read it in forbes before a few years ago that talk about in the average organization especially enterprise the average enterprise organization has almost seven decision makers minimum some have more okay smb on average probably three to five but other influencers who also influence the decision okay big corporations enterprise might have seven decision makers but five or six other people who also influence that so how do you navigate that if you don't understand the right questions to navigate you're pretty much just winging it hoping and praying that everybody's gonna be on board you don't wanna you don't wanna lose control of the sales process okay so we wanna bring all those people in okay and we do that in increments that's why it takes a little bit longer but you can cut that sales cycle down like we have many uh enterprise companies let's say they had a six or nine month or 10 month sales cycle and pretty much chop that in half if you know how to navigate the right way and ask commitment questions that get those smaller commitments that lead to the ultimate decision of purchasing what you're offering that makes sense and jeremy where can they find out more about this yes type of training good with their sales cycles yeah give them the confidence to have a nice consistent sales process yeah we're getting like 30 000 downloads or something on 35 last month yeah 35 yeah we we just kind of started this as a hobby like six months ago so well i don't think we took it very seriously until about two years ago when i found out how many downloads we were getting i had no idea i thought we were getting like a third of that i literally i thought yeah me too there you go so hey guys if you want to learn more uh about because i know it's it's hard for us in in 25 or 30 minutes to give you like specific tactical training like you can ask this question and when they say this you're going to ask that and if they say this you're going to ask this and here's the right tonality to ask that question now if they come back and they say they're not going to get this person involved like what do you do here and let's say that the you know the head of the i.t department doesn't want to be involved like how do you what do you say in your email to get them to want to be involved and how do you go to this person and let's say if it's a husband and wife and you're selling this and the wife says i want to think it over and the husband's not there what do you do then so if you want to learn all of those type of skills because you know we're only able to give you like little nibbles and chunks here here and there if you want hors d'oeuvres if you're tired of the hors d'oeuvres and you want more of the main course the mill so you can sell more of your products and services if you're an individual salesperson if you're a sales manager executive you want your sales teams to double triple their numbers if you're the business owner and you're like our teams are not hitting quota every single month and i want to i want to i want to scale my business i want to be a let's say if you're a seven-figure business a six-figure business owner you want to be a seven-figure but what's gotten you here is not going to get you there if you're a seven-figure business owner you want to be an eight-figure business owner what's gotten you there i'm going to get you there you want to be a nine-figure business owner train a lot of companies like that we're we're getting closer uh you have to learn new skills right you have to learn new skills we're getting there you have to learn new skills so if you want to go we got a website you can go to .salesrevolution.group it's just our free facebook group you can just check us out in there we go live in there at salesrevolution.group salesrevolution.group we go live in there about three to four times a week different trainings different q and a's we break down sales processes from clients we share scripting from different industries we train like 150 some plus different industries at this point so just go to salesrevolution.group right when you join check your message check your messages on facebook okay we will message you either myself matt our ceo uh marco our chief random officer or somebody on the team will message you a free training called the nepq 101 mini course it's just a list of different questions that you can use for different sales situations that we know you're in right now where you're losing sales whether you sell b2c or b2b uh we're going to give them examples of both and you'll enjoy that i promise you and then we'll see you in there for more training but yeah go to salesrevolution.group love you guys we'll see y'all you on the next episode farewell i do i don't know any other words yeah goodbye all right matt we'll talk to you soon hey guys if you enjoyed these here's another you can watch right over here right over here join our free sales revolution group click the link below join us and we're going to help you thanks for watching we'll see you real soon [Music]