Empower your business to close big deals for enterprises

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[Music] all right welcome everyone this is we're going to talking about selling Enterprise selling specifically if you are in the back of the room you're certainly welcome to listen in we are going to be doing exercises at the end as well so you might want to sit next to someone or find a partner throughout this presentation all right let's go ahead and get going today we're we're going to talk about Enterprise selling specifically I'm going to walk you through a very basic process we're going to start off with some basic preliminary work this is stuff you do and I'm going to curse a little bit for those on the far side or those on the live stream so I'm going to this is [ __ ] you do before you call the customer for a potential customer this is stuff you prepare for you don't just pick up the phone and dial people it doesn't work the next thing we're going to do is how to talk to a customer how to investigate ask questions interact with them so that you can gain information and be much more successful at selling that's the second part to that that's the investigation portion after you have done that then you demo your product you'll notice where that is a little bit later in the process than most people do it yes we'll get to why in a few minutes but it is in fact late in the process you do not start by picking up the phone calling someone unprepared and saying hey let me show you my product not very effective lastly after after you have done this you've done the investigation you know what their benefits are you've done your demonstration that's when you move to the end part closing or commitment I want to be slightly careful on this statement sometimes commitment is not money sometimes you're negotiating deals Biz devs and exchanges so it's not always money it's commitment not necessarily Financial all right any quick questions before I get going like why are you here why am I here all right let's get rolling then so I'm going to start off by the first the first step which is preliminary the first thing I want you to understand is this is designed for larger deals if you're doing 5K deals this is probably not the right method for you it's designed for larger deals it doesn't mean it won't work at all it means that it's too expensive a process you're going to do some work it's going to take some time it takes the salesperson at some point it's simply too heavy a hand right I'm going to use an analogy basically if you're put a nail in you don't want a sledgehammer you want the right Hammer this is but one tool among many for sales I'm specifically though today I'm just going to be talking about larger deals okay lastly there are exceptions to this in llarge deal and occasionally people bring it up I'll cover them all the way at the end of this there are some cases where this won't work for very large deals very quick yeah really quick question do you mean 10K like annually monthly so for the moment it's it's the check you're going to get if you get an annual check up front or or if they're committing for a year or if it's at least a very high retention but it's got to be worth it for that sales guy if you're paying a sales guy to make a phone call and he's expected to close a 2K deal it's it's not going to work out real well for you all right all right let's keep going so the second thing I want everybody to understand one of the biggest differences and I put this up front in preliminary because you're selling to a group not a person right he goes to the store he wants to buy a pack of gum does he check with all of his friends that it's okay to buy a pack of of gum no that's silly right it's it's a pack of gum how many of you are married you're going out to buy a house how many of you don't talk to your spouses about it those people who are about to get a divorce please raise your hand when you sell to big companies it's a group you got the guy from purchasing you got the guy from legal you've got the person who's going to get the benefit from it you've got the admin who prevents you from getting to the right person it is a group group so the first thing to understand in this is you are not selling to a person there are different people each person has a vested interest in the process when we go through this process you need to recognize that different people are going to be done differently I'm going to give an example just so we go through it you get on the phone and it's the administrative assistant to the VP you're trying to sell how many people are going to try to sell that person going to go ahead hey here's what our features do here's what our product does how many people would try that with that admin right probably not right it seems pretty obvious to you that's really not her job okay there you go you're group selling congratulations you're experts already that's that same idea though applies to other people so I'm going to go through some of the main ones Gatekeepers Gatekeepers are normally people who have low power in an organization they use something called lording lording is when you use the power of someone you report to or someone around you in order to prevent and or basically prevent in this case prevent the cell from moving forward they're Gatekeepers okay we'll talk more about how to sell them in detail but first recognize that there are people like this as part of it your job with a gatekeeper is to get by them obviously but I'm going to offer you a piece of advice and we're going to talk about this in a few minutes being an [ __ ] does not get you good roundie points it does not help you often times people that are lording what you want them to do is feel a little bit important and and be pleasant lastly some of these same people Gatekeepers will become insiders for you they will pass pass you information so often time Pleasant professional give them credit for power perhaps they don't have in order to get past them this is an example of a gatekeeper there are several others we're going to talk about I'm going to cover them briefly and then at the end of this we're going to cover them in more detail buyer is sometimes different than decision maker buyer can be in purchasing decision maker might be the guy in the business unit that gets the benefit you need to know the difference the purchasing all he cares about is the price and making sure his organization shows a victory completely different than the decision maker who might be in a functional organization who wants the benefit of your software or product therefore you're going to sell them differently when we move forward in this sales process lastly I want to be bring up a specific note on something called a champion anybody know Champions anybody dealt with this idea of champ getting a champion ink how many people raise your hand okay I'm going to ask an interesting question for you how many people have closed a large deal without a champion where'd all the hands go exactly Champs are one of the most critical things you need to develop in this process someone on the inside who feeds you information who supports you who drives it forward your goal is to give that guy a big [ __ ] Cannon to take your to take your stuff forward with he's the one who's going to end up doing a lot of work for you he's the one that's going to pass you Insider information what that means is your job in many cases is to equip the Champions with the necessary tools to sell we're going to talk about that in a few minutes as well so we start off by talking about when this is appropriate we're talking now about the fact that there's groups involved and so different people okay I'm going to talk a little bit about politics very briefly they exist we humans we are emotional beings we think we're logic really we think we are we're not neither are your buyers the fact is almost all decisions get made on an emotional level people first decide they're going to do something then they look for facts to support it you know what DCs are like this too we you need to acknowledge that don't be a fool I don't care what your Roi is it will fail if you don't address things like politics and personalities be aware of it it stop fighting about trying to win the math win the hearts make them passionate the math will somehow magically work out okay so pay attention to politics pay attention to power plays and things like that we'll talk again more later in this discussion on it and lastly PR economic disasters if you're selling a piece of software that is critical to the business they function based on it you should understand that you also selling risk aversion as much as you are selling benefits they don't want to be fired they don't want a disaster this is their this is very risky therefore as part of the process you must address the risk involved with a negative outcome making that go away is one of the best ways to move a deal forward with that stop many cases they get stop for risk not benefit okay so first acknowledge that pay attention to it and we'll talk more about that as we move through the process lastly I'm going to talk about this idea of managing the group I cannot tell you how many sales guys I know that send a cc to everybody in the group for every email they do a what you need to think about managing the group right who's the right person to send this to who needs to be included if somebody is lording if the lawyer is lording basically means that he's trying to control the process you might have to extra CC him yes manage the group I'll give you an interesting hint it's very much like managing people if those of you who are managers and are managing people you know you have to pay attention people's feelings and how they same thing with when you do large deals we'll talk about certain cases where that's not true but for now that's that's a general idea all right so now you're set you know when it's appropriate to use you understand the Dynamics of a group within that group you are going to do a process of Investigation so now you've done an email let's say they they're interested in it they've seen all your great content that Susan taught you about an email that Susan talked about or any one of these uh referral campaigns there's lots of ways they might have come into we are going to teach I'm going to go through one method there are many sales methods there are I have a stock of books on my desk maybe 20 of them lots of them are valid I'm picking one for today called spin uh by a guy named Neil rackam uh mostly because it's a very easy thing for me to walk you through and then from there you can choose other methods if you choose okay by the way you can buy his book as well if you want um it'll be a more detailed thing that I'm covering today the basic premise of spin works this way um I I'll pose a question to you how many people think sales a successful salesperson looks like the guys from woles of Wall Street how many people raise your hand okay one all right how many people think they look like used car salesman from the movies what does these guys look like the first premise of spin is that they're not salesmen at all what a successful salesman is like is someone who spends the time to understand the customer problems and issues understands what they're looking for and their risks and poses a solution that makes their lives better your software or other things get sold along with but you're solving a problem you're helping them Advance you're mitigating a risk something where they feel good that this is something they want this methodology also referred to as consultive selling is highly effective for larger especially ongoing projects and especially for add-on Revenue later what you see in the aggressive salesman is usually a single transaction that you don't revisit you're not going to see that person again right somewhere where there's lots of misinformation and other things like that and where the buyer is uninformed you don't know as much about the car as the seller does those are not true in this case your buyers are well informed in some cases they're experts doing that method will not work if you are pushing in a sale you have already failed most of the time when I do Deals they are asking for the deal because they understand how valuable it is to them spin selling is a method for achieving it to the point where the customer demands the product or is interested in the product you're not selling it to them they're asking for it that also helps your pricing it helps reduce discounts and many other things so let's walk through this in a series of steps remember you're Consulting the first thing you're going to cover is situation these are very light late questions what kind of machines do you have what are you doing now I want two notes on this please do not ask a question you could Google this annoys the piss out of people you have a certain amount of Goodwill on that phone you ask a dumb question you've used up a big chunk of it don't burn your Goodwill ask intelligent questions if you are well-versed this is really helpful if you are enough well-versed that the buyer feels you are in their field you get a lot more points you get a lot more credibility you can ask better questions and they will answer more questions but you can ask a few basic questions up front you know what do you use now things like that these are called Situation questions okay they're not really aggressive they're not anything big they're just sort of introductory to make sure you know what's going on in a few minutes you guys are going to pair up by the way I'm going to give you a heads up on this you're going to pair up and you're all going to walk through this process together you're going to ask a situation question and a few other I'm giving you a heads up now mostly because I want to make sure you're paying attention uh we'll do this in a few minutes all right but that's a situation question what are you doing now how you doing it now the next set of questions so now you've asked a few of these questions oh you do it this way you say oh you have a problem with that do you stay late because of it is that painful to solve have you ever had a major breach does that cost you a lot of money these are called problems you now know a little bit about the situation you can now get them to talk about their problems here's an interesting question for you how many people like to complain about their problems raise your hand if you like to complain about your problems really come on anybody who didn't put your hand up really everybody likes to if you if they feel comfortable and you have exceeded their trust level they have to trust you a little bit they don't feel you're selling them something you have to exceed that trust level they will complain and complain and complain a it's surprising there is a small group of people who do not complain there are a few but they're fairly rare usually the people who aren't complaining because they don't trust you if you've exceeded the trust most people will complain yeah it's late it's horrible this guy has a funny looking beard ah I have to work with this guy you got a question before I insult tomorrow comment I think people can complain a lot to that when it doesn't meet that made a mistake before for example they choose um a solution and it doesn't work uh if you had them directly uh okay what's your problem with this usually they don't say it because we're going to talk about this when we do the drills together pointed questions are very hard until you've gotten deeper into it so most of my questions do not do not go that targeted so a problem question might be and because because I know you've told me what software you're using so remember you asked situation right I know he's using so I know he's using Salesforce I know the problems with Salesforce you better know the problems with your competitor's product right I know Salesforce I said wow yeah I know a lot of your a lot of your other companies in your position they hate that pricing yeah so do we I better know what the problem is to draw him to a good salesperson he knows the weaknesses of the situation answers he got if they say they're using X you should darn well know what the problem should look like what I'm not going to say to him is wow how much did you pay for that last month all right this breaches trust you've gone too far with it this is very much like dating it's a little bit of a plue you know you got to play it along slowly here you can't just leap right in well at least I can't anyway maybe you can maybe if I was better looking I don't know okay I'm going to hold most of the rest until I get through it but we'll come back to those so some basic situations you're going to ask some basic problems you should know what some of those problems look like these problems can go on for a little while in longer processes problems May may be several calls but the idea is to get them please keep note of the problems listed do not lose track of this I can't tell you how many sales people I know they get off the call and I say okay what were some of the problems they oh I don't remember now no dude this is how you sell you have to know what those problems look like so now they've told you a bunch of their problems they've whed and complained to you please do not say oh we solved that oh instantly you know what happens when you say anybody want to guess why you don't say that drives me crazy come on nobody wants to guess you immediately just tried to LEAP the clothes they know you're trying to sell them yeah their trust is lost to get people to complain and tell you what's going on they cannot feel like you're selling to them don't leap past it all right so now we've guided them along they've told us a little bit about their problems what are we going to do next you need to do the next step and this is one of the hardest steps you need to move them from problem to issue is so I'm going to define the difference the problem is it's a slow system the issue is it delays me from getting home what's the impact of that problem makes me late getting home to my cat who pees all over my carpet right uh it pisses off my boss because I make too many errors it cost us a million dollars because we lost a client last month because of it you want to know what this is what is the implication I'm going to pose this statement to you most people do get the problem better people get to implication here's why a problem is like a feature it requires the user to understand how valuable it is before they're willing to pay for it to be solved that's a problem an implication it is obvious to everybody in the room everybody in that company knows the value of that statement they require no expertise to do it that means when they're in a conference call when that group is debating it and they're having the conversation everybody in that room knows it's knows it's it's got everybody knows its value CU it's obvious we lost a million dollar customer last month everybody knows that value it runs two seconds faster they have no idea what that means classic example of this of course is you know like gigahertz on a processor do you know the difference between 2.4 and a 2.6 no but if I say you get your email faster or whatever that you get problem issue okay move them to issue what does that mean okay so now they started telling you what the issue is yeah it's going to be a pain my boss is going to yell at me we lost a customer now we're going to move to the last phase remember we're still in the investigation phase the last part of the investigation phase the n and spin need this often times up until now you've made them feel like crap right they're complaining things are terrible things are slow they might lose their job if this go goes wrong if we get this is expensive need to move them to the other side now now it's positive what if that went away what if we solve that for you how might your life be better would your boss give you a promotion for that this is often times referred to as future perfect you want them to imagine the better future and what comes from it this often also called payoff need SL payoff this is important because they once they start saying this stuff they're imagining your solution already they're already halfway to buying your product if they can imagine how much better their life is they already know why they want to buy your product they become the salesman so they start telling you oh yeah if we had that I'd be easier at home easy my boss would yell at me all these sorts of things and also I'm going to give you two important notes if you're good at what you do and you know your product you should know what problems you solve please do not POS this solution that you can't do this is going to hurt you in a minute as you try to actually get to closure um the idea here is you know your product enough to guide them to the solution you can achieve for them so it's clear what they're going to get I'm going to point out something there are two sides to this coin the person and the company the person has to have a benefit and the company has to have a benefit if you fail to address either one of those it's much tougher okay so you need to make them imagine how solution might be better how it benefits them how it benefits their boss how it benefits the company what I'm actually doing at this point at this point that person has now become your internal sales guy he knows what's going to Happ right he's got all this information all you got to do is give him a bunch of bullets you know some marketing material and a little bit of support and he can be very helpful to you the other thing about it is within an organization he's an Insider he's intrinsically more trusted than you so if he walks into a meeting and says we can make an extra million dollars from this it is completely different than if you walk into the meeting and say that all right when he imagines the future perfect if he imagines it that it's very positive he's automatically going to start doing this especially if you give him yeah wouldn't it be great what would happen to your career if you did this really successful project future perfect all right going step back for a minute we're talking about Enterprise sales we start talking a little about how to make sure it's a group when to use this there's a four-step process in the in the investigation phase situation problem issue need and payoff at the point where you now have this you have all the information you need to move to the last phase at this point you actually demonstrate your product anybody want to know why did we wait until we had all that before we demonstrate anybody want to take a guess and they more willing to to listen Okay more willing to listen your product is potential solution they already laid out for themselves they've already told you what you got to show I know exactly I don't have to show my product I'm not showing my product I'm showing the solution to the problem they stated I'm showing them that how that need is going to be met the purpose of the demonstration is not to show your product I cannot tell you how many times I've gotten halfway through a demonstration before people even realize they're talking about the product I'm selling them all they care about is that it solves that problem they have that it meets their need you address their needs to do this sometimes you do have to show some product stuff around it but my point is your language what you say is meeting needs not product and feature so if they say that the single most important thing about this is that it's green because the CEO loves the color green you better be talking about the fact that the screens are green because that's what's valuable to them doesn't in some ways it doesn't matter if it's dumb to you as long as they're willing to buy it for that feature you're okay but mostly you have all kinds of ammunition so a few minutes ago they complained to you that they lost a million doll client you get to the screen you show them these see hear this you won't lose that million dollar client now they have Associated the the payoff right to your product so at the point where they call you back and start negotiating price what are you going to say well I'm going to save you a million dollars a quarter we're talking about 10,000 this is all the leverage you need when you get to negotiations which is going to be the next step commitment at this point most people get to the end of the sales process they are on the back end of some purchasing guy beating them up for price because they got nothing to offer purchasing guy calls you you say I know you're going to save a million dollars next month awfully hard to negotiate I mean you've literally got all your ammunition you've got your insiders who have given you all the information because they were trying to solve a problem not being sold to negotiations Chang quite a bit at this point it gets very difficult for them to beat you down because you literally are holding the stick over the head because you know exactly what they're getting from this and you know how valuable it is doesn't mean you don't give it all back to the group dynamics the purchasing guy always wants the pound of Flesh so you're going to give him a little something make him happy but you have a much better position to negotiate from make sense so commitment is mostly about hurting everybody together providing materials and a few other things believe it or not there's closings in most my deals are tiny sometimes as little as 20 or 30 minutes they're very very short even for large deals because everything's in place already they've already decided they're going to buy it it's just a matter of signing the documents be aware every now and then budgets do pop into this end they get all the way through they want to buy but they don't have a budget okay we're going to talk about this when we go a little bit offline one of the little preliminary things you're going to evaluate on the problem and everything is whether or not they have a budget right do they have budget do they have a team that's part of your initial situation situ situation questions people who don't have budgets you got to figure out whether or not you're going to be able to get done with it if you're selling a million dollar product and the company's revenues are like 20 million and they don't have a budget for you good luck wouldn't that be something that you probably want to get out in the open during the investigation yeah that's up in when I said the situation questions often times it lands around between situation and problem question most people will tell you that when you start the conversation about the problem all right we're navigating around a credit card company one of the world's largest right and all of this I'm not going to cover specifics just yet we're going to wait till we do partners and then we'll get back to it at the negotiation phase it get around the table and then they bring in the whole there's other ways to do this yes of course which means you didn't bring them in in the group to begin with right okay yeah it so I want to make mention of something um this is easy for me to stand here let's face it being on the phone and actually doing this stuff it's hard I made calls many years I failed ignominiously I was absolutely terrible I learned I got better no matter how much it is it is so much harder to actually execute this than to talk about it things go wrong people call you didn't realize it you forgot to ask the budget question this is never going to work the way I just presented it it doesn't happen but if you have the basic structure you can work within the structure best you can having some come into the group at when you're trying to close is unlikely to is unlikely to close it won't work much does that make sense um real quick and then then I'm going to go to the next part what are your thoughts on people go over budget on people who go over budget meaning I'm going to make sure I've understood the question they say to you I don't have budget but let's keep talking people go budget over people do go over budget and so when you know that you can like going over budget's possible versus going over budget is not possible so there's the there the rule of thumb goes something like this many things appear or can be magically created in the budget usually budget is used as an excuse to say I I'm not going to go forward with you if you have uncovered the problems before you know what their what their solution is you normally get a feel for the budget question at that point if it's real or not so I want to start with that the most most of the time when people say budget to me what they're really saying is I did a shitty job of explaining the benefits that's my most Comm the second one is because the thing is if they really didn't have the budget why would they spend the time on the phone with you I'm going to give an exception government employees government employees will spend six months talking to you with no budget because they got nothing else to do I I wanted to make that one exception in rare cases most people's jobs require them to get things done so if they really don't have a budget really really don't they're probably not going to talk to you very much it generally will come up early in the conversation most of the time when it comes up at the end it's because they don't have a clear benefit so yes we go over budget all the time you have to judge it from the situation okay I'm going to cover just one more actually I'm going to hold that question off because I I want to actually move to the second part honestly me standing here talking is really just not that interesting um not even to me uh so what we're going to do now is we're going to do an exercise I want you to find someone from another company question is that a hard question go ahead very very quick in the beginning you're told that um there is a that they start thinking that we they get by our our okay let's do with that after so I want to pause I want you to find someone from let's get back to it I want you to find someone from another company we're going to go through this exercise together here's your assignment you're going to walk through this process as if You' just called them please assume that they've at least gotten a small piece of information they've replied to an email if it's a totally cold call It's It Gets it's a little bit hard to actually get it going so let's assume you've sent them an email they've replied back saying they want to talk to you about it we are going to compress this whole thing into a few you know like 5 10 minutes at most so yes it's going to be compressed people who are acting as the people being pitched two things don't be a total pain in the ass right it's an exercise I don't know why it becomes like a competition especially with sales guys they want to beat the other guy you're trying to help them learn let them let them give them a little bit it's an exercise SI okay all right secondly the people doing it don't get too wound up in every detail just try it out for a little bit just you're playing around nobody does a great job the first five or 10 times you do this don't worry about it just play around with it all right want you to pair up find a little bit of space make sure they're not from your company and I'm going to in about five minutes I'm going to call you all back all right go go find someone thank you so much everyone I'm going to pause now okay stop selling I know so I'm glad you guys are all really excited obviously I'd like you all now to pause for a moment and share with the group things you learned along the way things that either went well or went terribly terribly raw going to open it up I found it the transition going from understanding the problem and the even envisioning the better future transitioning then into the product I thought that was kind of a that was so from product product to need is a leap usually there there's issue between so let's try a sentence that might do that so let's assume uh he's complaining give me what was the topic what were you guys working on what was the problem stated oh so the problem for us was engaging Millennials engaging Millennials I said okay wow you guys have a hard time I know a lot of other companies have a hard time engaging Millennials what do you think might we might be able to do with that wouldn't it be cool if you had a tool that did so transitioning often times I was more it was the transition from if you had a tool that did this would that be better they said absolutely yes it's the transition from then to that's what I do that okay that's what I do so here's the good news they sort of know you're on the phone for a reason so it's not too bad let's assume for the moment I say yes we actually so here's an example oh would you would it be really helpful if you could engage Millennials but yeah we're definitely looking for that okay we might be able to help you with that you notice I said the word we right this is a this is a consult we might be able to help you with that I didn't say I'm selling you something and I say well let's see what else you have here and let's see what else we might be able to help you with yep we were talking and I was doing the problem thing like you emailed yesterday so now we speaking but he got me into a features kind of loop like how is your product compared to such and such often times sales especially it's hard because we want to talk people like me especially I have a big mouth I really like hearing myself talk we tend to talk better salespeople 70% listening opening small questions and guiding questions so the habit you need to get into is is to Simply let them do more talking not trying to force the issue too much also along those lines except the fact that some of these calls won't work it just it just doesn't work every time don't expect it to so an example when I come on to a call A lot of times I say what would you like to accomplish from this call why am I saying that because they're going to tell me their key goals what they're there for some people start off calls with is this a good time to talk and that's actually another good expression because what that does is gives you permission to continue the if they say no no no I'm busy you can schedule on time but if say it's okay mentally they've now accepted the fact that you will be taking some of their time they've given you permission does that make sense either one of those are good but you be careful avoiding because a lot of times people say okay well what are you selling this get it happens to me all the time what are you selling how much does it cost very common I say oh we sell a lot of stuff but let me ask a few quick questions so I know which product to talk about so do you have a problem with Millennials I've guided you back to an open question make sense pricing is one of the early ones almost everyone will bring up pricing very early and a lot of times my answer is I'm happy to to go over it but if if we if you answer a few more questions I can tell you which price is right I don't want to barrage you with a bunch of numbers you don't care about and a lot of times I'll get questions if someone asks a direct question twice so I say how much does it cost and I say well let me ask you a few more questions and I can give you the right price and I say no no just tell me how much it is the second time you just answer the question flat out don't don't bother because you actually pass something called the annoyance level right once you annoy someone you don't get anywhere so you say it's it's $4.95 but per user depending upon this but it does depend how you want to use it so what are you looking to solve with this and then I can just reroute it back okay how about it somebody else interesting things you learned or got from this discussion yeah um actually learned that uh when he was selling me his product as an employee I learned that his product sols it so well that it substitutes my job and at the moment I was like oh job substitution if you buy this it's going to be awesome but that'll be fire that anymore so I'm going to you specific because this is actually very common in the software World um and it is problematic because you're going to bump into these people and they're going to see it as a threat generally speaking that means you should be talking to the next guy up right not this guy CU it's going heart us out but in the in the world of group selling it's going to happen so let me say how I address that I said some so let's assume for the moment you're a data a data entry Clerk and I'm selling a solution that removes the need for a data entry clerk I say oh do you ever really want to do something else in your company I mean this is a great OPP this is a great I mean he knows if the point where he's he knows he's going to be fired he's like yeah this sort of replaces my job you say well you know we can probably work with your boss and see if there's other really cool opportunities you mentioned you liked remember if you've talked to this person for a little bit you've got some clue what's going on here so you're still trying to solve the problem for this person as well you're going to try to help solve their problem at the point where you're an ally in this they might figure well I'm going to get replaced anyway but I will tell you if you get caught in that conversation it is never good like like getting into that that's that's not something you want but if you get that right in your face if literally says well this replaces me that's the best way to get back out of it but that's not the desirable location for the conversation make sense we got we got I'll just give you a quick time check it is 350 I have been taking 50 minutes of your time we're just going to do two more quick things and then I need to clear the stage for for Tam here two more quick observations yeah observation was actually a question can I ask uh I'd rather do observations for a moment and then let's come back any other things you learned or got from the session uh I'd rather have a different person cuz we had one already but nobody else okay how about that one uh investigation part was pretty key cuz I actually didn't really know what outfit had worked on that previously so I was like okay before I start on my pitch I got to actually figure out what your product is to start so just like getting that solid understanding yeah it's amazing to me how many people come to me and pitch a features that are completely irrelevant to me all the time you don't know what's valuable until the person tells you it is don't assume you know things are different in every company different priorities different budget Cycles don't assume when you ask the questions you find out what's really valuable that's what you're selling against not what you do but what's valuable to them uh yeah one more back getting to the issue uh blue chir thank you I'll let's see here so for spin selling um like you're definitely right I've like read the book and I've tried it somewhat in the past and Theory it works really well but um like it's been tough to kind of adopt in my sales process so are there like any resources you could provide like like uh or you recommend like videos or like more extensive like um material there's a whole webs I mean there's got to be a dozen websites in books so I will offer you a slightly different insight though the biggest problem that I see most of my team in adopting spin is is very counterintuitive because they're salese because they want to talk um and most of the time it's a matter of practice and it's painful it's long it's not an hour or two it's not even it's it's it's like 50 to 100 hours of being fairly pushing yourself and the last thing you need is to accept the failures the first two weeks you're going to use it are going to be [ __ ] it's going to be [ __ ] deals are not going to go well except that that's that's the price you pay for the skill development because when you start to hedge it and then you start to flip back and forth you actually build bad habits a good salesperson who has practiced does not even think about the next question it's they they hear the inbound stream they know exactly how to form the next question to guide you cannot build that skill set unless you're practicing it again and again when I say you've got to mess things up to learn it's just a part of that process so start with some low value calls low value ones but I think try it a bit more and lastly do not be absolutely rigorous I can't I want to do this last note the the world does not work where you go situation problem issue it never it always moves around it's always chaotic accept a little bit of chaos sometimes it's not going to work exactly don't worry about it the idea is not to be rigorous it's to be it's to stick with the idea of asking the questions and guiding them that's the most important part you're never I've never done it exactly like that uh one more quick one and then then we got to move on have you ever seen this employed like if you've fostered a relationship with somebody and you haven't employed this at the beginning to bring it in towards the end or even when bring in more group sure I've taken people out and I get about two or three drinks in and that works great um and that's not that's I'm actually not being humorous that's actually a serious statement in long-term relationships you'll go out over beers people have an expectation to be more casual and you'll figure out what the real problems and real issues are um we have one more minute all right they like they like to joke within big companies that no one going to get fired for hiring let's say picking IBM IBM so if I'm thought of how do I go around that so that they will Ex okay so there's there's gain yes but would you like to get promoted right there's gain personal gain there's company gain your competitors are coming after you you're losing margin right there's about remember all those hooks from the emails we talked about the email list from Susan that's the exact same list fear competition personal gain competitive gain political gain upon somebody else in theany uh return on investment although that's that's the math that's not the emotion right A lot of times people don't buy because it really advances so much as it prevents something bad from happening we're out of time I hope you guys found this useful uh let's go ahead and close it up and give you a five minute break before Tammy gets up to continue all right thanks so much for your time