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[Music] awesome [Music] to the How to Succeed podcast the show that helps you get to the top and stay there this is how to succeed at gaining access to power the following podcast is copyrighted by Sandler Systems Inc and protected by U.S copyright laws Sandler is the worldwide leader in Sales Management and customer service training you can find more information at sandler.com as always you can subscribe to this podcast on iTunes Google podcast Spotify or wherever you're listening to this one right now that would be a good start I'm your host Mike Montague director of community engagement at Sandler and my guest this week is Wade Rowan he is a sailor trainer from Chattanooga and we're going to talk with him about how to succeed at gaining access to power foreign [Music] welcome to the podcast tell me a little bit about this concept gaining access to power and and what we're talking about here this week thanks for asking Mike um as it relates to gaining access to power really there's three primary strategies that that would like to talk about we like to teach we like to coach people toward and the first one is really cultivating strategies that that help us identify key decision makers how do we cultivate strategies meaning it's consistent and it's ongoing and it's repeatable and then the second one is to you know how do we identify who those key decision makers are and how do we use the idea of character and Persona to really help us to fine-tune that so we know how to approach those particular folks and then the third would be to develop strategies that help us gain access and or find a safe landing place as we approach that particular client uh to to see if there's a fit and if we should move forward so so today's topic I'd like to talk about just this idea of how do we how do we gain access to power and then how do we in a positive way leverage that power to the client's benefit and also to our benefit in the process yeah I think this is a really interesting topic because a lot of sales training basic concepts are like you need to get to the decision maker and the person has ultimate Authority in getting stuff done but I found that to be easier said than done sometimes and especially if you're in Enterprise sales selling to large corporations that can be a really messy thing right like the the CEO of a Fortune 500 company is not going to get on the call with the sales person a lot of times but there's somebody in there who has the power to make this Authority or is going to be the ultimate sort of decision maker or key influencer in the deal so maybe we should start there when talking about attitude here is what are we really trying to accomplish and what maybe what are some of the common mistakes you see sales people make when they don't get access to power um good question I I think you know if I had to focus on one attitude to really kind of drive this in the right direction it would be to grow in our own self-awareness I think oftentimes we feel like that that this is really about us and about our strengths but the reality is is we all in the sandal World know that people buy for their reasons not our reasons and you know if we go old school we have to know that the first cell really is to the appointment so so to grow in our own self-awareness uh you know that allows us to to remain confident but not be overconfident to be self-assured but not overconfident and to really begin to see if I'm going to be my best and have the most leverage in the situation it's not about studying myself or or fulfilling what I think it should be but instead really digging in and learning what I need to learn to be best prepared in the process yeah I think that's good I think a lot of sales people get happy years right and they don't they they think because whoever they're talking to is excited means the whole organization is excited and that may or may not be the case and I think when you're talking about self-awareness too I think that means being comfortable enough to maybe deal with some ambiguity on the other side or that stuff is um is fluid and it's not linear like it was maybe 50 years ago where there's a direct hierarchy of an organization and there was a role specifically defined to you know buy or be in charge of this department and anymore I feel like teams are more and more distributed they're collaborative the the leaders want to make sure they get input from the the technical users at the bottom of the funnel they have other peer influencers and social media that they can consult that there's really not just one source of power anymore would you agree with that yeah absolutely and the beauty of of anything that kind of Falls in that you know emotional intelligence or emotional quotient type category is is it something that we can grow at it's something we can continue to get better at and so you know to have confidence in how you're approaching people and who you're approaching all kind of ties back to self-awareness and if we put the proper plans and as we talk through this and proper behaviors and techniques in place then we can become more self-assured which should also lead to us being more self-aware in the process and so I think really seeing that this is not about us and it's about those others whom we're trying to serve it's just so incredibly important in the process yeah and I'm glad you brought up confidence because that's one of the things I think we see sales people uh lack a lot that doesn't get them to that next level of decision maker right I think you're kind of relegated to the person in the organization who you sound most like and if you're sounding weak unassured new not bringing a lot of value you're going to be delegated to somebody like that if you come in with confidence and conviction and what you are and that you can bring value to every conversation you have a likelier chance of being promoted to a higher level in the organization yeah and I mean that's that's where power lives right if if you come in unconfident and not knowing or when this happens you come in overconfident or you know leaning on the Arrogant side of things of how great you are and great your company is then you lack power and if we're going to talk about gaining access to power we have to talk a little bit about our own self-confidence and our own self-awareness so that we're very comfortable with who we are and what we're bringing and you know the old Santa rule lives here no begging so if I'm confident I'm not bad begging but heart of being confident is creating some strategies cultivating and identifying developing strategies that will make it so I can consistently come in very self-aware of who I am but more importantly who the right people are that I need to be communicating with I think that's a perfect transition to get into behavior and talk about what some of these goals plans and action items are well and as it relates to behavior and we'll talk more about you know how do we put how do we put meat on these bones or or put you know Drive behind the force but as it relates to behavior I'll keep it fairly simple you know I would like to see people do effective pre-call planning and there's tons of tools we can use to do that but but as a behavior if we can do effective pre-call planning before the call or before the meeting and then actually put that knowledge to work then we're going to have the confidence that we need to have that we've identified the people that we do need to be communicating with and and also in that pre-call plan coming up with and again we'll talk more about it but coming up with you know the right story third-party stories to tell the right questions to ask so we can see if we've got a real audience that we should be communicating with but pre-call planning is one of those things that I've learned over 40 years of Business Development management that it's just lacking and so often we fail to to do that behavior and it makes a world of difference in how we proceed and how much power or how powerless we are in the process what are the top two or three things you want to know before you go into a call and trying to figure out a decision step as it relates to pre-call planning and some of those type things um I mean that's that's that's a great question you know I literally have a six step pre-call planning process that we teach to people and and and it's not something that we just teach but we also kind of live it out but you know so the first one would be what do I expect to happen in this meeting and I like to couple that with what does the other person expect to happen in this meeting and you know the buyer system is real so um I need to I need to make sure that I know what to expect you know so what do I expect what does the what do I think the client will expect that's the first two steps in this you know what role um each person that may be involved in the meeting is going to play and how that's going to kind of come together and and to rehearse that practice that make sure you you don't Wing that that's very important you know what do I need to prepare before the meeting as it relates to questions and third party stories sometimes I might have the right story sometimes it may be a cohort of mine or a team member of mine who has the right stories that have a really good chance of connecting um you know knowing not just what roles does each person play in the meeting but what parts do they play in the meeting and then the last one is just literally what questions should I go in prepared to ask and what's what third party stories should I go and prepare to tell so that I can I can assure that um I'm stacking the deck in everyone's favor first the client's favor and then also in hours to see if this is something that we should pursue or not so that's our sixth step pre-call planning formula that we use very often that's amazing I think two things that I would highlight there one is when you're figuring out who's in the meeting or who should be in the meeting doing your pre-research on who these people are what's important to them looking them up on LinkedIn what you can find out about their personalities and what's important or their previous positions and you know uh who reports to them how big of a problem or how important this is to them all of that will help you get the right people in the meeting and get the right information to those people to to make a good decision and I think what you said about the questions and the stories you want to tell and and what your strategy is for moving the deal forward I think that's obvious that those are really powerful things and I think that you know really transitions us over to technique a little bit here about how we actually go about doing all this and specifically you know gaining access to power and Powerful decision makers I agree I agree and so you know the if you if you followed me around you would hear me say very often you know that the first rule of communication is to know your audience in a close second is to know yourself but it's it's not first right but it's a close second and so if we know our audience then we're going to be much better prepared so as a technique simply I would just say you know use the technique of researching your audience and then apply the learnings that you find so it's one thing to research it's another thing actually to apply so and today I mean we're we're very blessed and that we have all kinds of different ways as you mentioned earlier to research and to find the answers to where does the power live and where does the power not live in this in this situation but but research your audience and and apply the learnings to the dialogue in the process still use the system because we'll talk there is so much power baked in to the Sandler Business Development whether it be Enterprise business business business to Consumer there's a tremendous amount of access to power baked into the system but if we've researched our audience and we we prepare ourselves with the right questions we'll write stories with the right information to to trigger and and hopefully figure out is the Real Pain need you know here or is there not so we can very much work effectively through this qualification compartments that work so well if we're prepared for those we have gained access to power if we apply if we're not prepared for those and we're treating everyone just like everyone else and hoping that we hear the same answers um you know we're not going to be nearly as effective in serving so many I wanted to ask you a follow-up question on what we mentioned earlier too about uh your self-awareness and your personal status and power because I think that's one of the things that we see people mess up a lot is that equal business stature in relationships and that you know begging for appointment or begging access to a leader is not going to get it done do you have any tips tricks or hacks for individuals when thinking about their own status and power and the relationship well I encourage you know and again get to speak and coach and and work with so many people but um one of the the light bulbs that went off in in my own career many years ago and I I'm I'm fortunate in that I was a Sandler um um I was a Sandler uh I've lost the word I was a sandwich student for so many years so I'm fortunate in that I was a similar client and a sandwich student for so many years before I began to teach and train and Coach the sandwich systems full time but one of the things I've learned quickly and I actually learned this way back in my career even even while I was in the Marine Corps is that decision makers will only allow other decision makers to help them make decisions so if I if I to answer your question of what are some tips and tricks one as a business development person whether it be Enterprise business to business you know business to Consumer whatever role you find yourself in there um as a business development person as a salesperson that's this growing business you have to begin to see yourself as a leader you have to begin to see yourself as a decision maker if you don't see yourself as a decision maker well decision makers will only allow other decision makers to help them make decisions and so so growing in our own um emotional intelligence to begin to see ourselves that way to see that we bring value to the table every single day every single meeting um growing in your own confidence in the process it's just it's critically important that we see ourselves as a decision maker because people can tell if you come in under or if you come in over but you know over time we've got to learn to match and mirror the other thing I would say here I teach so many is we are paid to be professional communicators and we are not our own audience that's the hard part we are not our own audience and so we have to research and study and learn and over time we'll get better at picking up on what that audience is but going back to the behavior I don't think that I can get good enough to not do my pre-call plan and to make sure that I know what questions I need to ask you know what third party stories I need to tell and to as I gain confidence it becomes much easier for me to dummy up in the process and just ask the question and let them think through the answer and respond so those are a couple of things that I think that help us to as business development people to grow in our ability to to have a healthier relationship also when we do those things from a long-term standpoint then you know it's it's it can be difficult to stay healthy emotionally in a sales and Business Development role because you hear a lot of no's along the way and if you're not hearing any you know something's wrong and so when our mindset changes and our attitude of Mind Body Spirit when those things are staying healthy then it's going to drive those proper behaviors that we need to be doing and seeing yourself as a decision maker um having the confidence that you need to proceed and ask even the hard questions that's going to help us to gain access to the power that we need I love that especially that entrepreneurial mindset and even if you're not an entrepreneur seeing yourself as a salesperson growing your own book of business in your own client base in your territory and taking that that mindset as a leader really does make a big difference in your professionalism and and how people see it uh I guess you know anything else that we missed strategies tactics uh or tools that we can use to gain access to power yeah access um is it okay if I tell a quick story about access to you that's a real life story for me um in my many years in the United States Marine Corps um I was part of many different teams some great units I learned so much from so many people but as a leader within organizations there most have a group of people in in the Marine Corps it's called Advanced party up okay Advanced party up and so uh the advanced party what they do is they go before the unit they go before the landing and they make sure that that access or the path that you're going to travel is safe right they they they Scout that out and then they make sure that the area where they're going to land is appropriate and so by by planning ahead by assuring that you're doing your pre-call planning and you're studying your audience and you're stacking a deck in your favor to make sure you're talking to the right people and not the wrong people well your your Advanced party up so you're you're clearing a path for yourself and you're giving yourself a safe place to land sometimes what happens is when we do that we realize that we're entering into an area that's unhealthy so another technique that that I've learned over the years is to identify powerless processes you know oftentimes we find ourselves talking to people and we realize if our self-awareness is what it needs to be I'm talking to the wrong person and all that strategy I use to get to the wrong person is not been time well spent um for many years I was in the technology industry and one of the common mistakes that I would see many make I know I've fallen prey to it is we would go talk to the people within organizations who was in charge of the technology so we would go ask for the opportunity to begin to manage their technology and we're asking the same people or persons who are being paid to manage the technology well I was a powerless process because well what happened is they didn't want to send that up to change and say oh you know I'm not doing a great job so why don't we hire the Wade's firm to do that and so as we go through and as we Prospect as we grow business I think we need to be keenly aware of is this a safe path is the landing place going to be one that I can arrive with the right stories and the right the right questions and the right analyzes and the right processes to assure that when I get there I have a really good chance of coming across in a way that has enough power that we can do something positive to impact those people but if I if I continue to go down those paths that are powerless well yeah that's gonna that's gonna leave me and I'm going to reside frustrated and and it's amazing to me how many powerless processes exist in business if we just kind of take a close look and say okay what's the results of all this work that you're doing in the process yeah I like that we kind of hinted at it earlier a lot of processes on the buying side are designed to turn you into a commodity to to make it about price to compare you against competitors and uh what we've found is the deals that are most satisfying to win and the ones that are easiest to win or when you have an 80 chance of winning it if you land in that place where you know we're doing a proposal and you're really sure that that it's at least leaning in your favor when you're doing it and you're not wasting your time uh you know doing stuff for people that that can't say yes or aren't going to buy or trying to shop you against competitors and things like that so I'm glad we mentioned that on the close there once again we're talking with way to ruin and uh he is a long time Sandler trainer from Chattanooga and we uh you've been on the podcast here before but I wanted to take a second here to to get to know you a little bit better at this point in your career what is a perfect day for you oh wow um maybe leading one session coaching four or five people seeing the light bulbs go off you know I gained so much energy from that whether it's virtual or in person but but when I see the light bulbs go off when I see the end results and I see people take you know small little strategies that we teach and and put them to work and then they realize those small ships create Major Impact seeing people accomplish their own goals their own dreams having business owners call me and say wow I can't believe that that little thing made that big of a of a difference so like everyone I I feed on the encouragement of others another big important thing for me and each day is that I do encourage others uh I I think that that's critical for all of us as we Empower folks and I don't think that's just in the life of a sailor trainer like myself but I think it's business owners it's leaders as salespeople as customer service folks if we bring that mindset in into our day thinking we can make a difference in their lives by treating them fairly and and going over you know over what's expected to serve well I love to encourage people just as I love to be encouraged so that's kind of a perfect day for me and then at Sandler we're always evolving so I'm wondering what the next goal for you is or or what the next thing you're working on to become better for yourself um uh recently um you know us Sam or trainers also sit in Sandler classes and so recently I sat in a class and there was a term used that I've heard many times but it really hit me this time and and that was we need to be kind to our future self so one of my goals for this year uh it's really simple kind of two in part one is how do I find more minutes so I can serve more people because it's all about bandwidth and two how do I I stay organized enough to be kind to My Future Self and and those things totally tie together because in my own organizational structure and using the technologies that are available today to do so um if I use those properly I can be kind to myself and I also can find minutes so I can serve other people so that's something that's on my radar some people would think it's really small but to me that just means I get the impact a touch more lives in the process that's awesome if you haven't read it there's an awesome book about your future self by uh Dr Benjamin Hardy check that one out really good book but let's wrap it up for everybody here on how to succeed at gaining access to power three quick ones what is one attitude you'd like people to have attitude um I'd like people to have is to be more self-aware meaning we know our own strengths and our own weaknesses uh we're self-assured but we're not over confident in the process and one key Behavior or action item you would like people to do leaving the podcast new effective pre-call planning before every call and before every meeting internal or external have a plan don't wing it do your pre-call planning always and the best technique tool or hack to use research and know your audience research and know your audience first rule of communication is to know your audience a close second would be to know yourself with the resources that we have today there's no reason for us not to know our audience we need to we need to be studying our audience knowing our audience and then delivering upon the information and the knowledge that we get that we gather along the way to make sure that that we're communicating with them in a way that's going to be best received and it's going to be most beneficial for them love that Wade thank you for your time today for more information on this topic you can get any of our free resources at sandler.com and you can find a local trainer too so if you don't have one already find a local Sandler trainer or reach out to our Enterprise Division if you are in a multi-state or multi-location situation as always you can subscribe to this podcast or share it with somebody that you think needs to hear it thank you for listening and remember whatever you are be a good one the How To Succeed podcast is brought to you by Sandler the worldwide leader in Sales Management and customer service training with over 200 locations for more information visit sandler.com foreign Summit returns in 2023