Streamlining the closing in sales process for Animal science

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[Music] hey guys so this is the art of closing a sale I think this is your last presentation for this week so congratulations you guys all made it a little bit about me so I was most recently the VP of growth at cheerio which basically means that I ran both the sales and marketing teams I built both teams from the ground up and then I grew out an inside sales model from what I would consider a traditionally like a pure SAS model which is essentially everybody comes in they all try whenever they want to buy then they come in and click through your store friend as opposed to actually talking to somebody in that capacity I grew out revenue 7x in 18 months so what I'm here to talk to you guys about today is how do you close a deal right and I think that there's been a lot that's been said in the last two days about sort of how do you qualify how do you get somebody to talk to you and all this other stuff and then I feel like a lot of times people sort of assume that well now that I'm talking to somebody and they see my product they're gonna love it so much that they're just gonna buy it and that is patently false that never happens right that's the fairy tale that everybody likes to tell engineers love I put my product in front of you guys you guys all buy it because it's so awesome it's so amazing no that never happened right so what actually happens well you probably passed a qualification of some sort you passed through a demo you do a POC you do a pilot and then you sit there and you ask your prospect are you guys ready to buy and then they say not really there's a couple problems here and you sit there seeing yourself crap now what so oftentimes to get deal to close requires three things right one of them is basically successfully navigating objections which in my mind is basically the most important thing because without that then these other two don't really matter that much so there's navigating objections there's working with urgency and then ago sheeting to a win-win situation right so objection handling the traditional framework for objection handling is called the le er framework I I think some of you guys might find this something guys might be familiar with this already because this is basically the same framework as active listening right which is basically you listen you acknowledge you explore you respond so on and so forth rinse and repeat right so how does that play out in actual sort of a real-life situation usually when I think about this I think about acknowledgment is actually one of the most important parts even though it sounds really dumb but you sitting there saying like I hear what you're saying and this is what it means to me it allows for a couple things it allows you to sort of acknowledge their feelings how they're feeling but it also allows you to sort of clarify and make sure that you actually understand what it is that they're actually saying when they say these things so you repeating it back to them let's and clarify add more details or not and then it basically allows you to segue seamlessly into exploring alright so how does that look into real life so if the objection is like we don't have budget the acknowledgement becomes I understand that you don't have budget right now which is like my little clarification there when's your next budget cycle all right let's do a deal then let's get you to pay them let's do something around that idea right but that is actually that you don't like my product which is the other thing objection of we want an X feature but you don't have it so I understand that you're looking for X which does this I don't know what about that functionally do you actually find useful right is it something I provide to you with a different functionality that I just wasn't able to mention before or is it something I just don't have and just say like look you know what we don't do this if this is a hundred percent something that you need let's just call it quits now right the most important thing about getting into a sales cycle is understanding when to get out of that sales cycle the worst thing that you guys can be done is is for you guys to get stuck in limbo spending time sending resources trying to get something to somewhere where there's just no chance all right so you always want to make sure that your resources are applied so that you guys are the most successful and can be like pushing towards something so let's look at like how this looks like in real life so what I put together for here is like a case study this is something that actually Char Char do you enter it into and one of their very very first sales cycles and so I basically just changed out the names but the rest of this is totally true so chardee owner does sales cycle with a mid stage startup called Atlas this is probably somebody that was I think they're like post series B probably about 20 million plus and founding hundred employees pretty decent size right and we are going up against digit data which is another startup that was super super super well-funded host series C about five hundred employees but the industry reputation of for them is really really really poor right and so I probably should have preface this by saying like which are do does so chart is basically a SAS based bi tool the the the tagline for us and sort of like the value pop for us is basically analytics for everybody so for us you don't need no sequel or anything else to be able to X to be able to query data transform it and do anything else that you need to do to analyze it right my goal of that is to basically shift resources off of your data team or your engineering team and into your business users like marketing sales whoever okay so going into this deal we felt like we had an edge right there's three reasons why one of them is our CEO is close friends with the Atlas CEO right that didn't mean that they were gonna buy us out right but it basically meant that we had tacit approval and that we knew that we were gonna get a fair shake even though we were getting going up against what would be considered a larger industrial player right the second one is our value prop aligned closely with Alice's stated problem so they basically said we're at a hundred people now we have all this data we want to make sure everybody uses it and they can't write great that's perfect that's what we do and the third one is basically traditionally once we get people into the trial we have great Buy in because our product is that good right especially compared to something like digit which has like a really poor initial reputation where people a lot of people think of them as sort of like vaporware says a lot of things but actually doesn't really work so what ended up happening we lost badly it wasn't even close and so when we look at this we look through sort of we presented well we got into the trial you got everything went there and then once we hit the objections to age we just sort of flocked right and so what I did is I teased out to the objections here for you guys to take a look at they're really two of them alright one of them was your trial period was too short second was we were more successful with digit right now using that sort of led our framework what does that actually mean well your trial period was too short pretty much means that so when we tease it into them they basically said look we didn't have the resources as commit at the start of the project so by the time we got those resources the evaluation period was almost done so your trial period is too short when we did have the resources we were only able to assign a junior engineer the project and because you were strapped for time we opted for a quick and dirty setup right now we were more successful with digit and this is why we mortise with digit was because one we put our best age engineer to work on that project cuz that project seemed much harder we forced or they forced us to basically perform a lot of database engineering which is why they got their best engineer on it optimize their database for analytics but we never we neglected to ever use that same setup with choryo right and the third one is basically which is I think is amazing by the way but they basically they called every single decision maker within Atlas and they basically got them to make sure that they didn't say no they didn't have to say yes they just couldn't say no right which is brilliant if you guys ever had the time and the resources to do that go for it so now that we know this it's time to handle those objections right no it's too late basically at the point that you're done with this evaluation period and they've already made a decision they're never gonna go back and do that right so basically by the time they basically gone through like a three week eval a four week eval five-week eval you going back to saying like great well why don't you just do this and evaluate this again no there's too many cycles or you lost they've already made a decision that they're comfortable with you're done right so really what this means is that the objection process actually has to start way earlier right because by the time you get to this point well things have already been set in stone so what's really the framework for doing this is basically one understanding your prospects landscape understanding higher projects pies defusing any bombs before they blow up and then engaging in a give-and-take right so understanding the landscape I found this graphic for GI Joe by the way I like it a lot knowing is half the battle the other half is red lasers the other half is blue lasers but you actually have to watch that to probably get it anyways understand the landscape these are the types of questions that you can ask for understanding right so what's the problem that you're dealing with right and this is actually going to look a lot like sort of like qualification questions because they really are because qualification questions are not just based on are you guys do you guys qualify but also just sort of information gathering in general right so what's the problem you're dealing with who does this problem affect how big is this problem is really about what that question is going for why are you looking in to solving this problem now how big is this problem for you all right how soon do you need to solute solution how much time do you need how much is it like is this a one-week out type of thing is this like a is this like a one-year type of thing or is this like a 10-year type of thing in which case it basically sounds like you don't really care about it right what will happen if you can't find a solution how much is this solution actually worth to you right what are you prepared to do to find a solution how many resources are you prepared to invest into this if I ask you to do this would you be willing to do this or not right again it's really about sort of neat how big is this is this for you have you tried to solve this problem before so that's really raw and sort of if you failed before why what's changed do I anticipate that this is going to be a better sort of cycle than what you did before with somebody else right I mean if it did then what's different now right and then the other one is understanding the by process so who's going to be signing off on a purchase decision is it just you can you are you the ones who need it or these other people have to approve does it have to be your CFO does it have to be legal does it have to be privacy who else has to get involved in this for us to make a successful deal right if the decisions on this is on what to buy solely yours or other people have a voice are you going to be the one who chooses this or is this a decision by committee do I have to should I be presenting to other people should I know who else is going to have a voice in terms of saying yes I want to buy this or no I don't want to buy this and then if you decide what you want to buy a solution whatever the next SP oh ignore that oh so what's different now portion of it but yeah and then diffusing the bomb right this is actually something that I think a lot of people don't played a lot put a lot of emphasis onto and wrongly right oftentimes I'll listen to deals and I listen to sales reps and they'll sit there and say I think that they're going to be concerned about security our security is not that great and then my question will always be well what are you gonna do about that and usually the response is something along the lines of I'm gonna hope that they don't ask that question no don't do that never never never never right if you see something coming deal with it because by the time it gets to you it's gonna be so big that you're going to fail when it comes to hits you all right so how would you defuse a bomb so for pricing I'm sure you're concerned about price our typical deals range from 70 K I do a 100 K annually is that a problem for you right commitment I love the fact that you want to come to us and you want to trial with us we'd love to move forward with that let's go up at the project and the resources that are required on both sides to ensure that we have everything allocated appropriately right this ensures that like with the Atlas example that they don't have that they have resources at the beginning of the project as opposed to three weeks four weeks in right project milestones how are you judging the ultimate success or failure of this pilot if we can deliver on these four some items would you be willing to sign today right because I think one thing that you guys will find is you get into evaluations and stuff like that is there's a lot of sort of like teacher creeping that goes on all right now I want to see this now I want to see this now I want to see this hold on does that really actually answer the whole question are you just kind of like wanting to see things to see you things right so this basically keeps that in scope building towards wing conditions so I understand you don't have resources on hand right now to set this up but we know how big a project this is for your company let's give you a running start the building of POC ourselves and then hoping your resources get up to speed as quickly as possible all right so how do you get how do you get how do you maneuver past these things that are look like sort of potholes in the road right can you skip past them are there any other ways that you can move and move for your way around a lot of this is sort of exploratory sort of ideas right and then keeping a radio contact this is another thing that happens a lot of times within sales cycles is that prospects end up going dark great I love it I'm gonna talk to you next week let me shoot you an email that email never shows up right I'm gonna call you Paul never happened you call them they never respond we email them they never respond what happens now nothing now you're in limbo terrible place to be right so how do you even read it radio contact thanks again for the meeting today I know that you want to circle back with us your team before moving forward let it set up some time to discuss the feedback to floor next Jeff's how it is next Wednesday at 3 p.m. look for you schedule the next meeting before your meeting is so engaging and give-and-take so for me like this is this is actually something that I see a lot of a lot of founders a lot of young companies that don't have sales experience I'd do a poor job of this right and it's basically this idea of I think that all oftentimes people are so happy that somebody wants to buy their product that they don't want to do anything to sort of piss off the prospect right you want more time great perfect let's do that we'll give you more time you know you want to discount sure yeah yeah we can do something yeah that never works out very well right what you really want to be able to do is you guys basically want to be able to engage in a meaningful conversation and provide meaningful value and oftentimes that actually requires you to say no sometimes give reasons that's why this isn't a good idea right and so I think one of the things that I see a lot especially recently with startups is this idea of I want to remove all the friction out of the sales process no friction is in there for a reason and if it's not another reason if it's not enough for a reason then you should get rid of it right but friction in the sales process can be a good thing right if you think back to that Atlas example digit forcing Atlas to build a better infrastructure for data is a huge friction right that's a huge thing that they may even commit to but making them commit to that makes them ultimately successful right so don't worry about putting friction in there if it's there for a good reason if it's not there for a good reason then yeah take it out sure don't let yourself on fire to keep your prospect warm this is basically speaks to this idea of you know stop ending over backwards to make sure that your prospects are happy because truthfully oftentimes like what you're providing yours to your solution is the solution to their problem right you don't have to be nice to them as long as that solution works you should be respectful and everything else but if they're saying something that's patently wrong or they're asking too much you you should be able to say no right without sort of fear be willing to challenge your prospects need its needs and assumptions don't give up things that are important to you without because concessions from your prospect and we'll go over that in a little bit and then hold your prostates accountable right hey you said if I delivered X Y & Z that you would sign I've delivered X Y & Z where's your signature what does that look like is there something else that's blocking out that sale so that's that leveraging urgency so in terms of urgency there's two types right there's natural urgency in that's artificial urgency so natural urgency is basically stuff that's generated by business and user market conditions so for example is if your prospect says we told this year that we would have a decision by the end of the quarter we need to have that right that's a natural urgency another one could be basically be you know there's a new there's a new mandate there's a new legal mandate that says that we have to have something in place by April 15th another sort of natural natural urgency right and you can start to leverage that throughout the sales process to sort of continue to sort of move it along all right so you're basically sitting there saying hey I thought you said they used you know I know that's important to you because you told your CEO that you're gonna have this by the end of the quarter for us to get to that point we need to get to this decision or this portion of the project by next week right but really all you're do would be you're all really the only thing you can do right there you can basically highlight and you can kind of encourage prioritization right you can't really sort of sit there and say you have to sign a deal now because of this right artificial urgency is basically stuff that's created by the sales rep and a lot of times that can only really be used to sort of force a decision right so this is again how do I get out of limbo territory and this is most commonly sort of built around sort of scarcity and concessions so where does that look like that basically looks like you said you wanted to enter into a trial period with me it requires you know one of my sales engineers time but they already have six projects they're working on I would love to sign you up for a slot for pirate edition now if you say yes now to entering into an evaluation and getting that rolling if not we may have to wait one month two months three months however long that is before we have more resources right that also looks like hey I told you that I would be willing to give you a 15% discount and I'll give that to you if you're willing to sign by the end of this week right can you get the signature for me by the end of this week naturally that's basically leveraging artificial sea to force decisions right one of my other favorite ones is actually hey our prices go up by next quarter or by end of the month so I need this I need you to sort of enter into this or I need you to enter into this evaluation before now so I can lock you in right things like that basically forced people to make a decision of am I in or am I out and then act ingly and then hopefully and then hopefully you know at that point do I come in continue to commit me dresses to this or do I remove myself out of this sort of equation and then negotiate so negotiating in a lot of ways is is it's pretty simple you should only negotiate like once that solution is sold right so you should be negotiating to sell something they should be sitting there saying this is a solution that I want but it's too expensive great what price is it that looks that it's actually favorable to you it shouldn't be it shouldn't be hey you know I'm really liking what I'm seeing so far but this pricing is kind of expensive can we talk about this now no cuz you don't wanna get you don't to basically conflate negotiation and pricing with the actual product does the product say does the product sort of serve the need and if it does great and if it doesn't or if that need is is too small than great then now I know to scope it out versus basically just trying to sort of cut everything down so once you do that you should always be mindful of long term impacts of any concessions that you make so when I think about this I think about oftentimes early on in early on in startups life it feels like it's really easy for you to basically offer a 50% discount to hello to somebody because that gets just dollars in the door right does that make sense if you know five years six years from now they're still paying the same amount even though they may be grown into they've also maybe grown into basically being like fortune 500 they've IP owed whatever else and they're still paying you like ten thousand dollars a month no probably not and that's something to be mindful of as you sort of move forward because often times you actually going back and having to Reena that is a really bad experience on everybody's side so weights are resources on your end and they're not gonna have any love for you and they're probably gonna open up the reopen up that evaluation process later all right and the other thing is basically contrast are like salaries eventually everyone's always going to know what you're what you're asking people to pay right so if you gave X company a 50% discount chances are by the end of the by the end of a few months Y company and Z puppy's gonna know about it cuz you have friends that work through their friends that know that price and they're gonna come asking for that price right and what do you say at that point and really the goal for negotiating is to close the deal immediately right you basically want dollars in hand as opposed to as opposed to hopefully getting those dollars later all right so again negotiate that basically speaks to the original point which is that negotiating what the solution is sold as opposed to basically negotiating to sell the solution and then typical negotiating levers I find like people like this a lot but X months free so you signed a one-year contract I'll give you three months free so you basically use sign now but your next your next billing cycle is 15 months from now back-loaded payments this works really well if somebody likes the product a lot but doesn't have budget for this quarter or this year you can basically change the payment type so you get sickness they're like okay well then you only have you can pay twice every six months your first six months is like maybe $6,000 your next six months is like $20,000 so backloading that gets you through the budget cycle but gets you still have the same ACV that you were up before one-time discounts this is basically like a discount for 15% for the first year every subsequent years beta is basically back at the full price so that basically helps you maintain your you see these marketing concessions this is working concessions are nice but they're also dangerous the reason why they're dangerous is because it's really easy to basically sit there and say great I'll do it for testimony I'll do it for testimo i'll do it for testimonial or a case study or whatever else and then maybe six months for now you look back at it and you've got like a backlog of 30 case studies and none of those companies are very good and by that I mean like you sit there and say XYZ company uses us and everybody else looks at you and says who cares that's probably a bad thing so be very very very mindful of what you give marketing concessions for but it's great for if you're looking to break into a larger industry or if you're looking to break into like a larger bracket of enterprise SMBs or for your piece of your first move in there because people use it to look and say like great you know these guys use this so we should use them right so example of that is like HR do we had we work as one of our bigger customers and we actually had people come in who are also like in that office space type of Industry she doesn't say like I read your we were a case study I thought it was great we want to do the same thing that they do sign us up and the other thing is extra services right so again these this is like sort of non recurring payments but if you could basically give an extra 20 hours of services from your sales engineer or are not sure like 15 hours or something or some sort of like feature of PEEP that's a great way to sort of give value without actually sort of degrading your AC because so that's pretty much that questions so I think the question so I don't know if anybody else have you heard of this but if all of us were able to hear that but the question revolved around if you're working a deal right now where you're trying to get it to close and they keep on bringing up additional use cases like hey maybe this department wants to look at it or another department after that wants to look at it how do I get that to close specifically there's two ways that you can deal with that so one of them is essentially is by and this basically comes down to sort of like what you offer and is worth it alright so but there's two ways that you can deal with this you could basically sit there and say you could basically sit that say like well let me get you under contract first right and then I can guarantee that as I get other portions of this news case out there will discount it to this point where like it'll still be the same path as it was earlier but now I can get your commitment now right that's one way to do that to worry something about that what people don't love about that is that sometimes like it'll affect it'll affect you're a CVS or it will affect your basically your average sales price per user or whatever your pricing lever is because you're basically sitting there granting concessions through so the way that other people think about it is you basically talk about it as sort of like walled gardens so great this department is one walled garden that apart is another walled garden and these are all separate that applies better if they're working off of like different budgets as opposed to if they're working off the same total centralized budget yeah so so as long as you don't publish your pricing you can always back out of a pricing increase that you've promised because you can always just come back there and sit there and say you know what you came back to us I'm gonna let me talk to my manager see if I can offer you the same deal hopefully at this point you're not the CEO but let me talk to my board let me talk to somebody that sits and says like let me see if I can get this back to you guys cuz you guys you know talk to you for so long I feel really good about you all this other stuff and then you come back like a day or two later it's what they say you know what we can do it at this price if you sign it again if you sign immediately right generally speaking artificial pricing or artificial urgency can backfire it generally doesn't backfire on the concession front of it because you've already given up a concession the only time it potentially backfires is in the census what you said save which is around sort of getting them in the door which is or getting them to reevaluate because prices are going to go up in which case you know again but you can back out of that oftentimes as you as you actually if you watch like larger companies so like if you watched Salesforce for example and all those other ones those are actually very very real price increases and there is no backing out of that right you come back in a day later they're like sorry too late this is the new price and so the question is I think more the question for you would be are you willing to sort of go to that foot because it does require you to play hardball and does require you to say no sometimes right if the price increases justified as in like look like the cost that we're incurring is too much and so I need to increase this price then you feel a lot you know you personal we feel a lot better about sitting there saying holding firm on that right I suppose of you basically just you know saying like oh I'm just trying to get more revenue in the door right so it kind of really sort of depends on one your temperament and what you're willing to go to for that as well as hey can that be justified in any way it does make sense so the question is if you're doing a deal with a large with a long sales cycle which probably means it's a very very large sized deal and it involves multiple people within a company so like let's say multiple executives the CEO or whatever else does it make sense after that to set up individual sessions with each of those people or go write everything through your champion and oftentimes it kind of depends on your champion right so hopefully like throughout this process you have a good feeling for champion of are they willing to push me in front of them or are they do they want to hide right really actually the best thing around that is actually if you have these one-on-one conversations but you include your champion in there so hey like what's better than a meeting with the CEO and a sales guy right especially like when this guy is the one who you bring him success or you bring your champion success then that's gonna reflect great on him or her throughout the rest of their lifetime right cuz I think like one of the things that one of the things that that I think maybe not a lot of people are cognizant of if they haven't worked on a large couple before is but oftentimes like with these very very very large purposes purchase decisions their job is kind of on the line for those right I made this hundred thousand dollar purchase if this goes south my job is gone right that's a very very very real fear that a lot of these people have when they're bringing in these things so obviously you want to sort of work in a way that that works well for them but also you should know that if you guys are very confident you can be successful with them that they're gonna read the benefits of that later on in their career within that company but I think your ideal circumstances essentially is being able to set up those meetings one-on-one with the CEO whatever else you should always keep your champion aware of what's happening because if he or she can help facilitate or if they want to be involved or whatever else it just works better because chances are your champions gonna be the best way for you to understand the landscape of this with the CEO thinks these are the biases that the CEO has these are the maybe the objections that you're gonna have to deal with there this is what he or she likes or doesn't like about some stuff that allows you to have a much more successful meeting or conversation with them later so there's a lot of reasons why somebody can hide you one of them and this is something that you can sort of figure out as your as your throughout your sales process but if like if they're new to their role there's actually very very if they're new their role and they don't actually have a lot of power in that role then chances are they gonna hide you right and you should actually know at that point that that's probably not gonna be a very likely sale because they don't have enough power to really drive through a six-figure deal right now if they try to hide you because they want to be front and center all the time then that's different in which case it's up to you to basically arm your champion with all the information all the data that they need and so then it basically becomes which actually we did a lot of Cheerios basically hey look I know that you're gonna pitch this committee at this point let's talk through that let me prepare to give you all the information that you need to have the most successful pitch possible whether that be custom custom information custom custom data that you have to like pull together what are the objections that they have then you get still had this conversation with this champion that you would have if you were running the conversation you're just kind of like once removed right I think it's difficult because nobody likes to be the bad guy right I've been like I've worked at I've worked at Yahoo in the past where to shoot down a project it took like going through 60 piece because nobody wanted to say no why you guys are all VPS why can't you say no nobody wants look like the bad guy that happens quite a bit the other thing that happens quite a bit is is if you feel like hey like this is like maybe like a 1a 1b type of situation so it's not a clear-cut favorite maybe I want to keep you there maybe I want to use you maybe I want to leverage you the pricing later great that happens a lot as well so then they can basically sit there and say hey like I have shown you that's coming in at like $20,000 and you're coming in at 50 thousand dollars I still like them I'm still in contact with them if you don't give me this pricing discount now I'm gonna go to them right in charge is just sitting there saying like I think things are going great they're not going great right and it's up to each are do to basically sit there and figure out where do I actually sit and try to push people one way or the other say yes or say no yeah part of it is basically understanding how well do they understand a marketplace so asking what competitors are you looking at are you aware like with those solutions to have a cost is that something that you're comfortable with that's one way to go about it the more research that they've already done the more likely it'll be that they're willing to sort of extend into that other questions that you can basically ask are if you ask them about like the types of software purses that they've done before right so you know tell me about like sort of something that so tell me about the last thing that you guys purchased you know how much was that what kind of solution was it what the problem was the other way that you can flip it around is you basically sit there and say I was during the qualification of problem solution how much is this problem costing you right why are you looking for the solution now how important it is to you because if it's worth a million dollars then you know what's a hundred thousand right what's a hundred thousand to solve it oh it's all relative so then I think the question basically becomes like what is it they bought right so if you think about sort of if you think about software purchases in general all right there's probably things that are going to be like Cornerstone purchases right so like on the sales side your CRM solution is a cornerstone purchase on the marketing side a marketing automation software might be a cornerstone purchase on my engineering side something around sort of infrastructure and everything else might be cornerstone purchases security is like one of those right understanding how much they're willing to pay for like those types of current cornerstone purchases helps you give an understanding of how much they'd be willing to pay for something that's yours because if it's $20,000 but it's like a throwaway piece of software great I'm all in there right if it's $20,000 but it was for like you know like some sort of like PCI compliant like fire whatever else mad don't really want to play with that game right especially if I know like what those things should be normally and it's like $100,000 unless there's a logo involved in which case all all everything's out the door yeah cool other questions okay so I think the question is is what happens if you use somebody discount it's not good enough but that's the best thing you can do right in a lot of ways you basically have to hold firm on that and you and I think what you basically sit there and say so so the biggest question is is sort of like how do you act throughout their sales process right and this again comes down to sort of given tape are you somebody who's always bending over backwards for them in worst case probably they're gonna think to themselves hey I can push this guy a little bit more and he's gonna keep on bending over backwards and give me a better discount right or if you've been basically very very upfront with them very very transparent them and you say no when you mean no and you say yes when you mean yes then when you sit down and say like look this is the best that I can do they'll take you at your word and then the question basically becomes how do you navigate out of that objection or how do you navigate out of that sort of that pricing uncertainty then the question then basically becomes you're saying that it's not good enough why is it not good enough right is it not good enough because you don't have budget for this quarter you're not budget for this year is it not good enough because your CEO said you can only spend X amount for the software right in which case let's put together like a multi-year deal all right let's start to look at this well so for the budget one if its budget this year budget next year then it basically becomes about backloading but if it's around sort of like my CEO says I can only spend this much this year then great let's start talking multi-year terms this is even better for me so if you can only spend $50,000 I'll give it to you for $50,000 this year and as you guys prove a value then it's going to be sent me that $70,000 next year this is how I get myself to like a point where it's about equal or it's pretty much identical much I'm just basically moving money around because at the same time like and I think like fitting that you have to explain to them when you're sitting there saying like this is the best I can do is that there's a very real cost that's involved and like this is the only way that we sort of can stay in business right because the and I think the point of it is basically when you sit there and say if $50,000 second do I give it to you for fifty thousand for this year but it's going to be 80 thousand next year they need to be aware that what you're doing is one year this looks sort of like a one year amnesty type of period type of thing right so it's not as if this is only worth this much this year this is only worth this much this year in the context of a two-year deal right if you don't have that two-year deal then this is not worth as much this is now worth $70,000 we're just what we heard said before right so getting them to understand exactly why you're pricing the way that you are or the concession that you're making and why you're making them sort of help help them understand really sort of like where are the boundaries you know I mean I think like that's probably the easiest way to do that and really it's largely around this idea of like why is it that you want to think about this in a larger scope right chances are if you're an IT director you're thinking about is in one of two ways one of them is basically if I rolled in five then I probably get a cheaper across each department than if I were to buy it each individually which is fairly standard Britta look at it and the other way to look at it is basically like I don't want these other four to buy something different and for me to have to maintain five different things right so once you better understand sort of where they're coming from from that perspective then it basically allows you to better sort of angle or frame your good frame your response right so one of them is basically like look let's get this in now which is like what you do right and then when these other four come on board you know we'll all push it into the same account which basically means it gets all the sort of like the normal sort of pricing conditions that you would get for a ton of the sides that will just kind of grow naturally within that right but if it is about sort of but if it is around sort of like I want to make sure like these other four don't buy the same thing I actually really don't care about the price then it basically becomes this question of you know if that's the case then actually you sitting there saying like well let me get into one first and I'm prove it out he's probably actually not gonna work because that's not really the problem that they're trying to solve they're trying to solve dismissed if for all five and which case unfortunately you probably ought to back out or rescale bit and then kind of reengage well are there questions all right thanks you [Applause]