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and so what I found out is that they didn't care about the interest rate they didn't care about the pricing what they cared about was the result that our service would give them does that make sense and so we were trained because we got the same objections at the time like hey Daniel what's your lowest rate and what am I gonna do say Oh 8% when the average link was given 6 we're two points above so we were taught on how to divert that attention away and how to sell tax relief payment deferral and debt consolidation but the key thing is of how they taught you how to sell it was that you didn't sell it until you needed to sell it they taught me that marketing selling and closing or three different things it was interesting because I always kind of thought selling and closing with the same selling is actually our first conversation closing is done on the close call where we kind of got it backwards we believe marketing is our first call and you know you believe marketing is your first call because you're like oh yeah we got the harp or we got the home ready program brought you are a marketing ad so their marketing is done that's how you got they got to you that makes sense that's why we rely us how we get pumped full of leads is because naff has this engine this marketing engine that does very well and so now that we have the attention now it's a matter of okay well how do I sell this attention and the only way to really sell somebody is through empathy and there's this ratio the same mentor taught me about like how you know you have two ears and one mouth because you're supposed to listen two times more than you speak there was like this he told me that the one who talks the most loses the sale and again it was like man what's all this Confucius Brad just tell me what what do I gotta do like my mom over here with Yoda I'm not trying to crack these riddles bro what do you mean and so I found out what he meant and what he meant was if you give them too much information they don't necessarily need you but if you capture their attention in a way to make them want the result of your service you can close them and so the first call he told me that it was selling and so first call selling is really all about listening and this is where his statement of people like what they know is because if you listen to them the reason why they need the lower rate is because they are maxed out on their credit card debt the reason why they need the lower rate is because the wife lost her income or incomes changed liabilities have increased their three-year-old is now six moms back to work and now we got daycare expenses make sense when you listen instead of trying to speak and sell but oh but wait we got the home ready program we got piw the hell is a piw bro I don't know what you want you sound like a Salesman I don't want it that makes sense