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higher pricing higher value more attention more dedication coming from your clients when people are paying more then the biggest factor in my growth in the past five six years is been having a mentor it's important to be instinctual and trust your instincts and just say it as it is overthinking things too much welcome to my legal letting lawyers work smart Joy life coming up with the pricing for my legal Academy and I'm sure you know everyone could go to mylegalacademy.com or what what is the way is it mylegalacademy.com what is the website mylegalacademy.com and I love talking about pricing and I actually have a really good resource that I got exposed to and I'll share this briefly about pricing today yeah yeah great great okay so you know go to mylegalacademy.com you know sign up find out the pricing and everything but I want to talk a lot more of the philosophy and the strategy around pricing right how was it that you came to using the subscription model for my legal Academy and then came up with your pricing two things one is I typically like my ticket offers and the reason is it's not for me but really it's about getting the ideal client you're dealing with a lot better clients when you're in a high ticket offer and not only that you can also provide higher value I mean getting paid higher higher pricing higher value more attention more dedication coming from your clients when people are paying more so that's the one thing High ticket versus low ticket second thing is I found a really good resource the guy Ryan Doris who just took over consulting.com and he has amazing emails their emails are so good I literally print them out and study them so one of the things that I read is called pricing Pockets price and Pockets means if you're within this price range then you won't find much pushback for making it on the higher side of the price range so for example if you're between the thirty dollars to 300 range then you could potentially take that 30 offer and turn into a 300 offer without that much change in the demand so that's one price in Pocket another pricing pocket is between 300 to a thousand dollars we're charging 300 could potentially charge something for 9.97 and for between a thousand to five thousand five thousand but if you're between five thousand to nine thousand nine thousand so if you find yourself in those pricing buckets kind of challenge your own pricing test it out a lot of people starts off from within first people like don't feel like they have enough value so they don't trust themselves to put it out there that is what I'm charging for but if you're doing something good with the world and you're providing really good value for your clients then I challenge you to increase your prices and again don't just you know the increase in prices isn't just to increase your profits which is an amazing benefit but also you could not take that extra profit and make it even a better offer and more value and that allows you to get more clients and provide more value to your clients and basically it's a win-win across everybody yeah that is interesting and I am curious to see that and see like the research that's backing it because I'm sure there is psychological research because one of the things we talk about is on this podcast is how you shouldn't give potential subscription clients more than three options at a time right two is better because if you have two options it's picked between the two if you just give them one option then it's yes or no and no is an option right so sometimes two is is ideal but no more than three otherwise human psychology can't handle it there's a lot of science backing that up but these uh you know these these pricing buckets is also a super interesting idea that I haven't uh delved into too much on here um I have had attorneys on who talk about value-based pricing right so like and this is normally when you're transitioning from billable hour to a flat fee or a subscription model where what's the value of what you're providing stop billing by your hour and think about the value of what you're of what you're billing so there's there's definitely a lot that can be said there and and I think that what you just quoted uh it will be super useful valuable information to to those types of attorneys thinking about that but my question for you is with regard to the market opportunity in the access to Justice and latent legal Market space and so without question I think you're right I think there is opportunity for lawyers to come in with value-based pricing to supplant billable hour attorneys who could still potentially make the same amount of money but you're no longer billing your time or even more money right with value-based pricing that's that's a red ocean those markets are using Legal Services right now but there's this huge opportunity of people who can't afford expensive billable hours and so how do you serve that market and also make a lot of money potentially but with the same kind of a thing in mind right like do you have any ideas around there my strategy would be in that situation would be to have a completely free community nothing low ticket I'd rather have a free community to bring them on there and then on the back end of that is my main offer you know if it's low ticket it's just I don't see it as sustainable because in order for you to bring good value it has to go beyond you you have to build a team you have to build infrastructure you have to provide more resources than what it is and that has a cost to it so where's that money going to come from it has to come from somewhere but if the intention is right that you still want to you know obviously help people and serve people that can afford it then in that case if that's the intent then just make that the free committee and and then on the back end have a more exclusive more intimate little Community with maybe a little bit more support and a little bit more closer interaction to the the leader to get value yeah it makes me think about the the council for creators guys which I haven't who I haven't had on the podcast yet I think they charge like a hundred dollars a month which is low ticket in a way I mean some people can't afford that but like you're usually talking about small business owners who joined that thing and then so it's kind of low ticket so it's like not quite a free community but then it is like a community model but it's a you start out as a paid community and I'm sure I know they're selling they're upselling those clients right so I mean we see that model working there is would you think what they're doing is also valuable is have like a low ticket entry into that type of a community and then upsell later yeah um actually those guys are part of our community um they've been through on my program to to kind of learn how to generate clients and all that stuff yeah but I would probably if it was me I would push that 97 to 297 um and then um really focus and you know creating and an upsell from that yeah and there's no one right way to do it right like I mean well if Sam believes maybe maybe this is there's one right way to do it but but there's no one way to do it let's say and so experiment right the point is is do something different than the way that law is being practiced right now so we've mentioned the website we've mentioned the YouTube channel Sam you also have a book called virtual Law Firm Secrets right so tell us a little bit about the book yeah the sub headline is how to run your Law Firm so it doesn't run you so if you feel like you've been kind of stuck and you feel like you're like kind of very active law firm operator then this kind of exposes this book exposes you to a lot of automation um Concepts and actual how to's of how to automate a lot of that tedious and repetitive work off your hands and this is like you know essentially one of my secret sauce is how I'm able to run six law firms at the same time this is pretty much how I do it do any of your law firms have any physical presence anywhere yeah we do and actually over time we've been gravitating towards a hybrid model I think the hybrid model is the best way virtual has its benefits has his perks and you take advantage of whatever that you know you could turn into virtual uh the way that we kind of see it and I think the best way is to have headquarters in-house with your key staff your like your directors your intake managers your attorneys things like that in-house but your day-to-day like your intakers your document collectors your people that do the followings for you and Etc all those will be virtual that is by far the most efficient kind of model also bypasses a lot of again the issues that we have with like finding good staff well okay well you have a virtual operation then you don't have to worry about that as much and then right and then yeah and then at the same time you have good controlling good management with great in-house people so I think that's probably the best way to do it hyper yeah and a Google business profile you could have that if you have an in-person thing and that helps with searchability and findability and stuff right yeah yeah yeah but everybody I think needs to have some form of physical office for me I'm lucky enough to be focused at home but I don't think most people should be working from home yeah I think people need to go somewhere in and then be surrounded by other people too yeah yeah my town is getting a um like a wework competitor that's like a smaller version of leework it's like not we work but it's just like we work and and so I very much look forward to uh being able to sign up for that subscription where I could have like a leave leave home but it's only a five minute drive not even you know to go to this the shared workspace and also meet with potential clients there too because like I represent the small business owners right hey hope you're enjoying the video so far if you're a lawyer and you're looking to work smart skill fast and enjoy life right below this video you'll find a link to book a call to speak to my team so we can tell you how we've been able to help over 500 Law Firm owners scale their Law Firm now back to the video so let's see here man we've covered a lot I'm really happy with what we've we've gone over uh before I ask my last question just um is there anything else that you know you want to share about what you're doing at my legal Academy other other things other lessons maybe you wish you would have learned uh before starting your own Law Firm that now you know one of the things that a test has been the biggest factor in my growth in the past five six years is been having a mentor somebody who cares about you who checks in with you what kind of holds you accountable we've built a vision for you is somebody who can give you feedback outside of you a lot of people kind of have ideas and Visions but it's hard to implement those things if it's just stuck in your head and what a mentor does is able to you're able to express those ideas you're able to collaborate kind of brainstorm together and also you know the mentor is good then is able to kind of give you action steps okay great this is what you want to do the first step the first step is go do that and that's the no I have a mentor who does that for me when I saw that when I saw my progress of having a mentor that's when I realized I'm like wait a minute I could maybe what if I was a mentor to other people in a scalable action and that's the program that I kind of created called my legal Academy that basically essentially I'm a mentor we have over 500 lawyers who have joined our program to be able to get guidance exactly you know what it takes to be able to grow a an automated and scalable Law Firm um so yeah if you've been kind of stuck and you feel stagnant then I highly recommend flooring in some kind of program like my legal Academy that could really kind of listen to what you want to do but then a very specific regimen that could help you implement whatever your vision is yeah I think that's great so um with that all the links in the show notes and Sam my last question for you is is a hot dog a sandwich and why it is not a sandwich because that's not what you think about when you think about a sandwich okay all right so yeah that was that was a quick that was a quick answer you've thought about this before no it's important to be instinctual and trust your instincts and just say it as it is instead of overthink over thinking things too much all right great uh well um uh you've mentioned your email but maybe just one more time uh the best way for uh for people to get in touch with you sure just mylegalacademy.com or go search for my Lego Academy on YouTube I have a lot a lot of free content I think I've been maximizing on how much amount of much amount of free content I'll be sharing online I post daily almost for the past year on YouTube we also have a Facebook group called mylegal Academy just go on Facebook and search for my Lego Academy join us there a lot of free resources and a lot of free things there all right great well thanks so much for coming on the show thank you so much Matthew and props to you keep everything you're doing I know um I know about your vision is with this great job for sticking with it and you're definitely the subscription man and I'm always gonna see you as that person and someone that I'm gonna look into to get help and resources every time I want to kind of explore subscriptions awesome thanks I appreciate that well all right take care