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[Music] foreign [Music] rules for customer experience today unfortunately I really couldn't make it but in any case we expect really a very promising panel today really pleased to welcome once again Chris Wade the associate DP from Ezio hi Chris how's it going is it rain in London or uh it is it's actually sunny in London for a change but it's rather cold okay yeah that's expected okay and then we have also our very fellow peer partrick from the each sign called Patrick it's in question two how's weather in Germany uh cloudy raining but mood is fantastic okay at least something right so uh accession of today so what are actually these new rules of Pharma when you speak about customer experience maybe we can start with you Patrick so the new rules of engagement so I would say it's not a new rule but a very important rule is remain relevant yeah I think a lot of other Industries have proven that if you are not relevant you can do whatever you want which channel which timing people will not listen to you if you you would like to buy a blue jeans and people say buy the yellow you know Chino that's this thing this summer you will say ah maybe I won't go to the salesperson again for us it's the same make sure you really understand what in this case medical doctors want from you yeah so this is why I would say focus on this if you do this good there are not so many other things you need to focus on thank you Patrick Chris yeah I guess the uh the new rules are the old rules aren't they it's all you know you said Patrick it's all about relevance um but I think you know you know clearly there's a lot of you know it's been some very very big announcements you know in the last couple of days that are going to shape what a lot of organizations are going to be thinking about you know the next six 12 months as they sort of set their plans going forward um but when we think particularly about you know about you know and I think the the previous session was you know was touching on aspects of you know what is experience about and you know relevance has to has to sort of you know cut through everything that we do as an organization and I think it's recognizing that you know that that requires joining up functions which perhaps previously haven't been that well connected um I think particularly about you know our service functions as an industry you know what we do through medical Affairs and how that can provide um perspectives on you know what it is but that you know our customers and their patients you know are you know are looking for you know the challenges they face run very deep um you know diseases is you know managing disease is difficult for everybody um but there is you know that that need to take what you know to be able to you know do a better job at taking what we know what we can learn about um our customers and what what where their needs are how do we you know how do we drive relevance from a medical perspective and then how can that actually help us you know better shape our our commercial approach so that we're not wasting people's time um you know we're not being driven by Vanity metrics um and the like and we're actually really focusing on you know what is going to make a difference to you know our commercial uh performance you know how our business is delivering um but also being in a good place for you know the changes and challenges that get that are undoubtedly going to come over the next few years exactly let's be even more concrete and let's pick why in overall customer experience is not implemented in Pharma and where actually should we start right to build up a process around building customer experience across the entire organization because what we see nowadays is we are somehow very disconnected like we previously also mentioned medical offers from commercial from Top management for marketing Etc so where to start yeah so if I made REO so um for me there are two main reasons so the first one is actually lack of focus so I believe what is really important is that you select one area where you would like to go deep before you go abroad you know it's a little bit like what Amazon and apple did Amazon started to sell books online and when this worked really well they moved on to other areas and for example we decided that we would like to focus on personalized engagement with medical doctors okay so this is the one thing which we wanted to do and this also says where should you start be sure what you want to do it's no process automation it's no clinical trial Improvement no chat Bots or other stuff just one topic the second thing is lack of commitment I honestly believe you either need to go all in or will be perceived as another change project and what I mean with you go all in is first what is the purpose and what do you try to achieve if you ask five people in your company if three or four stay the same you're already on a good way but really make sure that it is you have a shared understanding for us like I said it's everyone will say or let's say 90 they are not to lie create bespoke engagement for medical doctors so it's really within our DNA it also means you need to think about the people what are their roles and responsibilities when you say we would like to create bespoke engagement our classical Market here is really the ones which you need do you recruit new people from fmcg or e-commerce and if yes what are their roles is it tackling content is it helping to develop modular content you know you really need to be very clear which people and which skills you need to achieve your purpose the next thing is processes if you really say we would like to make a difference um don't just you know say we move from an annual planning to a quarterly planning but really work on it say what does it mean quarterly planning so do we have an annual brand planning at the beginning of the year and then we have quarterly updates if yes what do we talk about in the quarterly update who makes the decision you know whether we still focus on a strategic imperative or a priority or not huh um and just and the last thing and maybe the most important thing is when it's lack of commitment plan for long-term success so this is nothing you can achieve in three six or 12 months so it took us one and a half or two years to get the basics right so really the blueprint roles processes people what I said and we said let's take two years of time to implement it across Europe so I'm working in the European headquarter and break it down into quarters and months and what it takes to basically execute and I can tell you this two-year let's say roadmap was a big relief for many people it took some time to be understood yeah 100 people said what you mean we don't need to go live tomorrow we said no there are still some things lacking so we really need to make sure you have the time to understand to recruit the new people and to implement and this is why we have this monthly and quarterly checkups but be realistic because otherwise people will be frustrated and you will fail and this is what I would like to say lack of focus and lack of commitment if you want to do it really go all in because otherwise very high chance to fail Patrick Chris yeah I mean obviously you know coming from a solution perspective you know I will always uh championing the role that uh that technology should be playing in in enabling in enabling change um but you know culture each strategy for breakfast and all of those great sayings um you know I think you know to Patrick's Point the challenge that many organizations have faced is that they essentially Define their change program on the basis of a technology role that plan um that they don't think about how am I going to you know how am I going to win hearts and Minds you know how do we get whether it's from the CEO you know level Senior Management that they are fully on board with the difference between a CX mindset and the traditional you know engagement um model and you know and and sort of six cement success measures that have gone around that that can't be understated um similarly you know bringing people with you you know the the the the idea that um you know people out of the field in in even whether it's in sales or medical roles are you know merely kind of like reading from the screen parroting what you know what's the next slide what's the next slide that's not that's not real you know you go out with a rep you know they put a huge amount of focus on understanding you know that customer they're talking to you know looking at you know using their experience using their knowledge to try and and you know better shape their approach and often technology has actually been the problem here it's it's restricted that that individuality it's restricted the you know the human touch to say and it's sort of been reinforced I think by some you know pretty short-sighted compliance processes around you know the old you have to start a slide one you have to go from slide one to slide to the slide three you can't shape for conversation because the perception of you know because we track this data and it's not the same as a conversation that you know you're potentially putting yourself at risk um from an audit perspective around not not providing Fair balance you know it's a it's a fair criticism but it's you know it kind of puts all of the weight on on one particular you know aspect of the process which in this case say slide tracking as being the only measure of what happened in that that that that that sales call clearly there's a conversation that's happening alongside that but that's lost um so I think the you know there is you know it's it's no one thing but I think you know to me the the the the the fundamental starting point is recognizing that experience is this is is not just for you know it's not just the the addition or the channels sort of coming together it's more than the sum of the parts it's looking over time what your customers want what you're able to offer them and how you can evolve and improve that you know through Focus through investment um through Improvement and and it's a you know it's it's always going to be a moving Target um you know bearing in mind what it is that these you know that their customers are actually doing you know they're out there you know speaking to patients making you know making treatment decisions every patient is different every disease presentation is different is different and that's going to be always you know that inherently creates big challenges for you know how you know what you can say how you can communicate it um but I think you know what the heartening thing for me is there are more and more companies you know like you know Patrick and his colleagues at daiichi and many others who you know are actively you know breaking out of that that mold that I think we've been set in for for far too long that when we thought we think about CRM it was purely in terms of you know here's the system that the Salesforce use or his system I feel you it wasn't a sister it wasn't uh um a platform for managing your customers across all of the different parts of the business that they interact with and if you go into you know any other industry sector and have that and have that conversation and said oh we've got a great new CRM system and to your earlier comment Dario it's only going to support the guy at the front desk but it doesn't connect to you know any other aspect of that hotel chains operations they think you were mad um you know we have to make that change we have to recognize that you know it's not about multi-channel it's not about omnichannel it's about how we work as a business and how we can best position ourselves to be there for our customers the very interesting points uh before we take over some questions from the audience I would like to speak about some real examples of customer experience which we implemented in your organization maybe we can start with your Patrick because yeah I would say you really did a remarkable journey and you maybe have already something to share with the audience yeah maybe two or three examples so you just stop me when it gets too long I try to be quick one minute one example okay so the first thing is um we visited yesterday actually some of our smaller countries and they also started to create personalized content they did three iterations the first time they produced with a key opinion leader a 30-minute video about three topics which took six or nine weeks to deliver very cumbersome fantastic video but let's be honest who will watch it 30 minutes no one yeah okay so second iteration they briefed the doctor and said okay we have some learnings um no slides yeah we will do three or four videos instead of one so one short video per topic yeah and its Audio Only okay so it we really focus on the content and you could say do you really believe it's a good idea to make these type of suggestions you know to a key opinion leaders but you could really see that the feedback which was provided was great because the doctor said you're really right I also wouldn't watch a 30 minute video yeah but clearly telling me we don't need slides let's focus on the content one short Topic at a time bite-sized makes sense one example the second example is how you basically make sure you focus on your customers so if you plan what are what is my goal actually when I talk to a key opinion leader yeah um participating in events disseminating data yeah you can name your goals but is it really customer focused when you say oh could you please speak at event XYZ I don't think so because this is push you make suggestions this is where you can contribute but what if you would you know invite the doctor and say let's make an annual plan so we have these congresses we have these speaker events we have these Publications where are your interests and at which at the conferences or Publications or AdWords would you like to participate these are the topics this is where you can select from let's make sure this is really fit for purpose from a topic perspective from your preference perspective and then we create the plan once if there are minor changes fine but this is true co-creation and putting the customer in the center and not pushing it but basically pulling absolutely Chris um yeah lots lots of lots of small ones um I mean I think back to uh I used to work for a company in the UK called the doctors net UK ran a physician a vision community and we did a lot of work for different Pharma companies um on their in terms of you know providing uh you know brand marketing services to to UK doctors and the the the the main rule was you know if it wasn't if you couldn't do it in three slides we didn't do it um and we'd be given we'd sat down with a brand team member so to say here's our here's our detailer to be 80 pages and it would be this very sort of painful conversation around okay how do you you know what are the you know what is it that you really need to get across in the space of the you know whether we want to talk about a kind of seven second rule or whatever it is is that a you know the importance of being able to just capture attention and do it in a in a way that actually both is simple to engage with but also it respects it respects the skills and knowledge of the audience and I think that's been often one of the disconnects that brevity gets confused with Simplicity um you know often we are dealing with you know you know you know all but almost very highly trained very skilled very specialized people so they have a very high um you know Baseline knowledge and they expect you know materials to be to to be to be geared ingly in terms of I suppose in terms of uh you know what we said what I've seen more recently um you know I think I think good examples are where companies and um you know daichi included are you know actively really trying to connect um their marketing operations not just from a you know campaign marketing but to putting marketing at the at the center of you know of owning the customer experience being responsible for it and then working very closely with you know with the uh you know both the traditional uh custodians of a relationship in the field to make sure that it's not just a sort of an issue that what sales thinks is what you know happens in the rest of the business and and that sort of sense of you know what's relevant to you is going to be dictated by the channel I'm using um by the setting we're in is it an inbound is it out is something we're trying to communicate is it a question we're being asked so that sort of idea of the Persona being a kind of very a very fixed entity is you know is rapidly breaking down as you know as we apply you know marketing Theory you know marketing experience from other sectors and recognizing that yeah you know the setting is very specific how we respond how we react is very specific but we're able to do that now and I think that's one of the key sort of moves forward from a technology standpoint is you know is that we're not we're no longer looking at trying to bolt together disparate systems that are really only Built to do one thing and then you've ever got to sort of suck everything into a data lake or build a lot of heavy integration you know you know this the solutions such as xivos are designed to be to be to be you know natively connected they're you know it's a unified customer solution with all of the different um you know business process tools that different people in the business need whether it's marketing whether it's medical where it sells they all have different roles they have different requirements they work in different ways so the idea of one tool is you know that's never going to work you know different people need different tools but they need to be able to work together you need to received a very interesting question which I will display here coming from Lauder in all of these by Patrick and Chris it appears that atp's prescribers is still the customer in an essential web-based sales model is that understanding correct if so what are the new rules another interesting question indeed who would like to go first so thanks a lot for for the question so no uh for us the wrap is not the center of the action for us it's really a primary kind of contact yeah a customer experience specialist trying to understand what the customer need is it could be a salesperson it could be a medical person it could be a market access person it depends basically on the customer and the relationship which means sometimes this person can get an immediate answer but if someone says for example let's say a more Market access based person I'm actually very interested to understand how digital Solutions can you know let's say create real world data real evidence because you know we would really like to change the game and think about uh how paying for drugs will change then this person forwards the interest to our digital Innovation Hub team which then can basically take contact and say okay let's really understand what are you trying to achieve would you like to get information on how real world evidence can be generated how we use it would you like to be connected to different stakeholders who have the same interest and then you can start to work on it so it's still some kind of a key account model but in its purest sense you have one point of contact which makes it easy for you to get an immediate answer or to make sure the follow-up can be organized very effectively which makes it more satisfying and easy for you so I would say that's the new rule make sure you have the best relationship by providing required answers as fast as possible through a single point of contact maybe to sum it up it sounds like the nature is having a concept like the Apple Genius in Apple Store right yeah something like this yes thanks a lot yeah I think uh I think the only the only the only uh extra I didn't think I'd add to that is I think it starts with a desire to understand how decision making is followed in that market in that therapeutic area in that organization and you know to Patrick's Point you know being flexible about where's you know not the historic owner but who's who would be the best person the best role to take to effectively to take lead um in that and then as with that role to coordinate with their their colleagues how best to work and I think you know we've seen you know if you look at say you know I guess a market like the US where you have you know very uh large complex buying networks in place already do you think about an idn something like that you know you might have a team of 20 30 people um who have basically performing different account related roles in that organization to make it to to make to make it work um a lot of those are going to be responsive in terms of from a service or you know uh you know medical perspective but a lot of it is also you know on Commercial negotiation um as well as supporting the actual you know the the end users with not just a product approach but I suppose to kind of like let borrow the whole beyond the pill Maxim you know it's that package of of you know the solution rather than the product is what's being provided and that of course has been demonstrated to to drive adoption and to drive preference so promotion certainly still has it has its place and the rep hcp piece is not is not gone but I think you know we're seeing a lot of organizations where it's becoming almost like it's almost on demand is that the business will determine when they want to switch promotion on and for how much to have an effect so the kind of sort of constant presence of a wrap on territory there are you know many companies you know who are who are reevaluating that model so that it can be more agile in you know how they apply their resources across the market um they're not necessarily in field all the time um they are I guess like like probably one percent of business to business teams they're there when they need to be but the rest time they could be working from home they could be office based and you know doing all their heavy lifting you know virtually thanks last question we are left in three minutes would be how important actually is the technology part within this whole customer experience journey I mean in my opinion in many cases we are really very blinded by the technology which at the end of the day is not aligned to the people and Patrick at their beginning makes a very good points how to make sure that each aligned all that but I mean let's try to answer this particular question how important technology is and why actual technology is important okay first on this one I think it's I you know put it this way could you do this without the technology of course not so the technology is important but it's like the technology the technology allows us to actually think and and and change how we operate um if we didn't have the technology we would be moving um job bags around in folders you know we would be you know filling in pay-per-core reports and faxing them into the into our district manager you know because that you know that's what that was the reality not all that long ago um so technology clearly is a massive enabler but it's not the art it's not the end it's not the whole answer by any means I think you know Patrick's absolutely just beautifully described you know that relationship should be symbiotic that's right so I I can be a little bit more provocative Chris uh so I think you don't need technology to make it happen yeah so let me give you just one example um the first time we created personalized content yeah for three different personas we didn't have any digital Asset Management in place yeah we didn't have any tool to create content yeah we worked with an external agencies but we had the Persona no change processes there for compliance and approval it was all the same but what we had was the mindset to say we test and learn we Define every two weeks what we need to achieve in an agile fashion so scrum band yeah and this really worked well of course technology makes it easier but I will put it in very simple words I think technology is the most cited excuse not to start whatever yeah and this is why I can only share the experience if you would like to make it happen you can make it happen with very limited technology and then afterwards you understand the value of technology so Chris it's not like technology doesn't have a value but if you have the wrong Focus or Focus too much on how do I approve modular content yeah when does legal and compliance needs to go in in it gets so complicated that you never start because you see a mountain piled up of problems and when you trickle it agile you focus on what can we do and what we can do is to First decide what is the content we want to do then who needs to be involved how can we approve it you know you slice and dice the elephant and in the end you will be surprised by what the teams are actually able to do when you let them do their job and I think yeah just to that I think it highlights it's the importance of just of of Discovery and a willingness to to think and learn to Define what would be a better process and then use technology to make that process better to either scale it to make it more robust to make it you know you know more repeatable that's that's that's what technology should should you know is there to do not to Define how your business Works um and what it is you do as a company another question from the audience but please try to be as short as possible which do you have any thoughts based practices regarding inside Gathering biodigital platforms or localizer on that Patrick yeah I can so thanks Georges it depends what is the purpose of the platform is it to you know store basically customer data or is it more so more are we talking about the data lake or a data mesh or is it a digital customer platform where you basically trying to collect as many information as possible from customers so my recommendation would be first clarify what are you trying to achieve with the digital platform create the shared understanding and start small by saying okay if it's about collecting customer feedback don't try to do it all at once websites you know omnichannel campaigns you name it but let's say do we have standardized harmonized information in our CRM if no this is maybe where you should start before you try to complicate the whole situation by adding more layers of data and systems so it for me key to success or what worked us for what worked for us very well is really do small steps and then do the next Once something is complete to close up I think you know I'd purely say um don't Define your insights before you've looked at your data um I think that's often a big problem that we sort of come into these programs with a fixed mindset of these are the the measures these are the metrics we need to gather and then discover that we actually haven't got the information that we need it's you know we need to be I think a bit more reflective particularly if we talking about CX you know we need to we need to be ready to embrace new measures of of impact new measures of of success whether it's NPS you know other similar things but you know we can't just keep you know using the same the same performance measures that we did when we were measuring you know you know how active is a sales rep you know that's you know we know we have to move you know move forward from there on top with that thoughts thank you very much Chris Patrick was a great conversation we're looking for the next one latest next year in Maine program next so thank you very much thank you guys for joining have a nice day thanks Mario thanks for having us bye bye [Music]