Optimize Your Customer Prospecting Process for Staffing

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[Music] hey everybody welcome to this very special issue of Staffing monthly where I have the distinct pleasure of not only hearing from a couple of people that I really know like trust and enjoy being around but we get to talk about one of my favorite topics and that's actually how to sell Staffing Services um and I actually had to maybe beg borrow I don't know what the right uh the right word is to get this presentation aired to you because this was actually exclusive content delivered only at the Avante connect conference uh to users and and Prospects of aviante that got to go here to this session however it was one of the highest if not the highest rated session at the entire conference and it was an amazing lineup but these two people presented how to sell Staffing services and the audience went nuts the participation was great the feedback was impressive and when you look at the background that these two phenomenal people have you'll understand why so the people that are that are with me here today are John ruton who is actually the uh the senior Enterprise account executive with aviante he's been with aviante handful of years before that he's actually LED sales teams for some of the biggest name stat in agencies out there and he's been in Staffing a lot selling Staffing Services with a whole lot of success which is really why Avante poached him away so they could basically get someone that understands the industry to drive that level of growth for them and he's been killing it um we also have his counterpart which I didn't get a chance to actually see you present this information Erica but this is actually Erica kubba which affectionately everyone calls Cubs so you'll probably hear me say that but but she is with aviante she's a little bit newer than John but she also comes from Staffing she actually worked for nearly a decade for a pretty solid footprint family-owned company um servicing a multitude of Industries so she has a lot of knowledge about Staffing and how to actually sell Staffing Services uh that you really need to pay attention to and the overall key points and they're going to get into this but the overall key points that you're going to hear today is they're going to talk about Outreach right they're going to talk about what are the ways that you need to be thinking about reaching out to your prospects what are the appropriate sales cadences that that you need to be interjecting into your process to be effective and then really the big one is how do you differentiate yourself from the competition which is always that really is the big one because I think most agencies really struggle with that uh being in a service industry but so I am stoked to have uh John and Erica here with us today presenting this so John I'm going to kick it over to you to take it away but thank you all for just being here and digging into this information yeah Dan thanks very much for the extremely warm introduction um you're right Erica here is like my better half um so just to back up a little bit uh yeah I'm John Avante um I support all of our large Enterprise engagements for North America and and prior to joining the software side of the house I I did a bunch of years um out here in the Pacific Northwest supporting the teams um on the west coast on the agency side of the house so a lot of uh Global staffing firms on sites uh Branch Network and and yeah we were we were pretty successful at at selling Staffing services and it's interesting how much has changed um since I was out there carrying a bag um you know selling Staffing services but how much has also not changed um and really Erica I'll toss it over you but this this whole presentation was born out of a conversation I had um at Staffing law a couple years ago it was right during the peak of coid um one of the really Dynamic leaders and I respect in the space approach it's like hey you know I really feel like my team has lost half a step um through Co like it's just been a really challenging year um you know I know you had some success selling Staffing Services would you come out and talk to the team and uh and so we we gathered up a lot of the stuff that we did when we were successful carrying the bag and a lot of the stuff that we've heard since then is kind of a voice of the market because all Cubs and I do all day every day is is talk to staffing firms and so we hear what's what's what's the pain what's working how have things shifted and so as our connect conference rolled around we decided to like really give back most I think sessions at any software conference are probably you know the focus is on the software um yeah our presentation was really not about aviante and 100% about how can we invest in those leaders that took time away from their business to come to connect so that they could have something to go back to their team with when they get asked hey we've been sitting here running the branch without you you know what what do we get out of this three-day Gap that you had and so so we've heard a lot of really really good feedback to your point um we both probably have imposter syndrome we don't know why anybody would want to listen to us but they did and and and and the scores were really good and the feedbacks been really great we've been brought in actually a couple times to kind of co-present on some of these differentiating topics and um do some of the sales kickoffs for other Staffing teams so it's been really it's been a really fun sort of just side kind of passion project of Eric and I as a way of giving back cuz we really love sales and I think we're both the happiest when the people around us are performing and doing well and that includes our clients obviously and our and our colleagues and our peers so Cubs did I did I get all that right is that directionally correct spot on yep yep 100% spot on Dan first off thank you so much for the the amazing introduction um and and to John's Point doing this session this year at connect was just extremely special because we just wanted to you know really kind of talk about some of um the topics and you know some of the changes that have been happening specifically this year within the market you know everyone's kind of back to kind of prec coid times where you're out there trying to you know bring in some of that new business and so it's how can we share um some successful strategies with our customers so super excited to be here today and and share this with every so and Dan you you sold some staffing services in your in your day I've gotten a contractor 20000 my Bel this some of this must have resonated with you a little bit and I'll start to share my screen here but um again thank you so much for having us on I think that some of the stuff that um that surprised me the most was how quickly the game has changed this year even you know when you think about some of the form field emails that we get that are mass soliciting business that we're all sick of opening um when you think about some of the subject line tactics and emails to get your attention like there's there's a lot of blocking and tackling stuff that um has not changed but some of the tried andrue methods I think of what these um these SAS platforms that support cadences are doing it's it's sort of ran its course and so we have a lot of people that are circling back to what are some of the basics of like building Rapport quickly getting people to open up um and so that's kind of what this this presentation is all about um we're going to go through today guys this again this is what we presented at our conference so it's taking a little bit of a different uh spin to do it here virtually over you know a screen but we are going to go through some of the um things that worked well for us by way of Outreach um and a lot and some of this if you guys have been exposed to like Sandler Sales or um uh power dynamics a lot of these things may sound a little bit familiar in their DNA Dan n said um I I this presentation has never been better than when I've done it in tandem with Erica um she's going to take over and do sales cadences and then we're going to wrap with some examples of differentiating from the competition and some of that does get into some of the mobile strategy and the things that Aon supports but it's all um you know very agnostic to whatever ATS you're on whatever type of Staffing Services you're selling if you're going out that day to close a New Perm order or you're trying to respond to an RFP for Enterprise business um we we sometimes Eric and I would skip over the the slide of you know why we are here and how much we've actually sold when we did uh have this as our responsibility and again I was only successful because of the team around me um in Enterprise sales it's more about bringing in the people internally to get the deal across the Finish Line as well as taking that Rapport that you built um with the client and then transferring that report to your organization that's really all that I do Erica goes out and gets people to follow yeah exactly so we feel like we've covered both ends of the spectrum here yeah of the type of sales but Dan does is any of this resonating with you as far as like what we're what our mission is here today it it does and I I love it because I hate to say it when I go to conferences and I see events webinars for the most part the salesperson is usually the most overlooked and I I know that this is a recruiter driven industry but anytime I can be a part of anything that shows some love to the sales people out there carrying the bag in the trenches you know dealing with the rejection at massive levels I uh I appreciate it so I'm glad that you all are are here showing some love I I couldn't agree more you know we've always had um selling as a component of our responsibility and our roles but I haven't been an individual producer in 20 years until I you know joined Aon and and it's interesting how overlooked the salespeople are and how tough it really is out there so um this is a little bit of the of the topics I'm going to cover here um just like basic and blocking and tax Ling um you know phone calls and emails your 30C commercial um and I'll I'll go through all these one by one but um when we actually let me back up when I when I reach out to CEOs which I do every single day um I'm typically cold calling their their cell phone and I'm using tools like Zoom info to get that information and then I'm immediately following it up with an email and you would that says like hey you know hey just let be a voicemail and it's typically that email is a Verbatim transcript of what I would say live in my 302 commercial and it was so fascinating when we were in that room at connect to ask those Staffing owners how many of you guys could describe your business and your differentiating and your secret sauce you're offering in 30 seconds or less how many is that how many is that how many how many go you want to do yours now no no nobody does and in fact the audience immediately threw it back on me to do mine Y and and so so and it and ours is evolved too you know Eric and I were just practicing the other day when you think about everything Avon does front office ATS CRM back office invoicing payroll mobile strategy business intelligence simple VMS like it's a lot to cover and it changes all the time and so we and so we would go through in the room we would practice doing that out loud there is no substitute for that um that uncomfortable roleplay you you practice how you play and so we really encourage those sales or those leaders of sales people whether they're comfortable or not um to get out of that out of that box and and say these things out loud and and I really use the example of getting stuck in the elevator with your CEO you know if rub and I were were trapped and he's like hey John how's it going he doesn't want to know that my tummy hurts and I'm you know feeling okay he wants to know hey these are the things we're working on this is how we're doing them this is when we're going to get them done and this is when you can expect the what kind of results and that's what we mean about like compartmentalizing that 30- second commercial yeah and that that's key and I and I love that you're hitting it that's that's one of the biggest things people underestimate the power of the 30- second commercial and the power of practicing refining it delivering it testing it getting feedback in real time and and keeping that process going but the thing that I always say about the 30C commercial that I love is that it is the best answer to what is it that you do like if you're at a networking event and someone's like oh what do you do the 30 second commercial is that's the answer right if you're out with friends or wherever like hey oh what what do you do oh like it is this is literally your best branding message you can possibly have so I I love that you're hitting on it and I I love the throwback to Sandler and and it's okay to set yourself apart by by by having this dialed in like this is same thing with the email followup like most salespeople are not amazing at followup that is why we have automated cadences to do that step for us but when you can consistently um do that Outreach at the SE Suite make it really tight and make a really great first impression I can't tell you the number of CEOs that I've talked to that have been like actually we're we're we're kind of locked into our software decision here for another two years but can I just ask how did you get my number this is great I wish my sales guys would do this um so I Know It resonates with Buyers um at the seite level and I'm super beholden to the to doing the analog voicemail because once upon a time the first um on-site we ever closed was Leatherman tools when I was in Staffing that was the first thing I ever sold and it was the result of a of a returned voicemail and so because of that experience I just I'm I'll never I'll never get away from that that tactic um some of these other boxes that we're touching on here you know create a burning platform I think a lot of people when you know they're first doing their Outreach it's kind of like um hey are if you're open to evaluating I'd love to be a part of that conversation um that's okay um but what's better is to create that Co that um cost of delay yeah and that's what I mean by burning platform like you have to find those levers that that person is going to resonate with even if they were part of that buying decision to go with the Staffing program that isn't working out it's very difficult for somebody who was part of that decision to choose the incumbent that is not performing um when it comes to Staffing services to then share with a stranger gosh that decision I made is really backfiring um and so you've got to lean into that sort of like emotional side of their brain we want people making decisions from that emotional side of like you know pain um delay uh frustration those are great areas to lean in on and so when I say things like um get emotional I'm I'm talking about like you you want to take that emotional word and but you do want to tie it to a business reason yeah so saying things like are you frustrated worried concerned about and then tying that to are you frustrated about your overtime spin are you worried about turnover are you concerned about the quality of your staffing service program so and then again going back to Sandler you know using that reverse negative none of that resonates with you does it because if it does I'd be happy to spend some time where we can where to show you where we solve for those things yeah John can I jump in and highlight one thing I because you really hit on it nicely but I think it's worth emphasizing is the cost of delay I do a workshop basically say COI not Roi which is cost of inactivity or cost of inaction versus return on investment this is a funny thing people are 10 times more motivated by what they stand to lose than they stand to gain they're more motivated by pain and pleasure right like that's just the nature of it and it's the foundation of Sandler Sales I like that you highlight this because because if you try to sell all of this stuff and then you try to justify it with a return on an investment return is pleasure in the future right exactly cost of delay or cost of inactivity is pain in the present so that's why I love that you put creative burning platform in there because psychologically people are going to be more likely to take action quicker if they realize the cost of delay is significant because they want to avoid that totally and that you know and when when you think about it's kind of like using the old fud like fear uncertainty and doubt but using it in a positive way so you're not trying to you know it's not it's not a scare tactic but there are real emotional scary things happening when you can't start a line because your Staffing program isn't delivering the people that you need or you're having compliance issues on the back end because of California meal rest break periods whatever there's always something that people are going to be able to lean in on that's caus that's keeping them up at night and if if you can kind of wedge your your pitch in there you're going to be very well served um the last thing I I'll talk about on this slide before I throw it over to ukube is kind of that pattern Interruption and all I mean by that is just be genuine you know when especially when you hire a new salesperson there's always this like anticipation of like how do I become a salesperson well actually being yourself is what's going to make you the most successful in the seat for example I can never do great at trying to sound like Dan Mor like there's no way Dan couldn't do great at trying to sound like John ruton you have to take these tips and like just I guess make them your own genuine self work them into what works for you and and when I say things like um pattern Interruption all I'm saying is say things they don't you expect you to say when I used to introduce myself on the phone i' be like hi this is John ruton regional vice president of you know XYZ you've probably never heard of me um when people and and and people would always pause and laugh they that would set them at ease like okay he's got got this title but like he clearly doesn't think it's that big a deal um when we would when people would say like hey now's not a great time uh we can't connect right now I would always say you know I could totally respect that but in my in my experience if we hang up right now we'll probably never talk again and so when you say those things that they don't expect salesp people today it just jolts them out of that like expected mode of what they expect of salespeople um you know I would even say things like we're thinking of adding a new client in your space I've taken a look at your website your um your core values really align with ours and we're thinking that you might be a good fit for us that sounds that turns the the conversation totally on its head and you wouldn't think it works but I could I have some really clear examples where saying the opposite of what they expect um has paid tons of dividends and this also applies to email things like I can't tell you how many emails I've received where it starts out with some sort of apology like I'm sorry that I'm inter interrupting you I'm sorry reaching out like never apologizing your emails for doing your Outreach you're saving them from something that they don't know it's it's a world beyond what they have today and you're just trying to get a hold of them to explain what that world looks like um so those are some of the examples of kind of pattern Interruption does that make sense it does and I I love that you said never apologize for your for your Outreach because if you apologize for your Outreach you're basically setting the tone that you view yourself as a burden and the information that you're about to share with the prospect is burdensome and that's what you're telling them right and if you but if you don't and if if you got to get in the right mindset as a successful salesperson you got to be Evangelical right you basically got to be like I've got the I've got the best information there is and I've got to tell it to everybody because I've got to help all the good companies out there hire good people right and you should never apologize for that if you've got really good service really good people and you can help businesses and help candidates never apologize you should be proud to tell everybody that and if you as soon as you apologize you basically are saying Hey I'm I'm a burden you know please forgive my existence and if they forgive your existence they're going to forget your existence so yeah I love that yeah they they people start to see us as a commodity right you know a 50 pound sack of beans is a 50 pound sack of beans a staffing service is a staffing service and we'll get into that differentiating here at the end um and how you can you know stand out as not just a commodity but um Erica do you mind C and before she jumps over I want to say like everything you just said is going to be setting up differentiation throughout the entire process so differentiation isn't just the answer to why are you different from your competitors it's literally how you do everything differently like the pattern inter off your Outreach not apologizing all of that stuff is literally a differentiator so the whole goal is to position yourself as More Than Just A salesperson ideally especially in the Enterprise space um you know you're you're positioning yourself as a consultant that is there to make sure that all the scary boxes are not left unchecked and if you can set yourself up with that sort of a um profile in a prospect's mind it just builds so much trust and raor so quickly and just sets the whole relationship on a different foot I was just about to to say that exact same thing and also too it's like you should never apologize um um either because they also have a sales team too out there the exact same thing so 100% spot on Truth yep so this is um a part that I'm actually pretty passionate about uh as we kind of mentioned before I've been doing sales now for 13 years um almost a decade of which we're we're actually at a staffing firm out there in the trench is consistently prospecting not only um hunting but also farming too so uh pretty passionate just kind of talking about a sales Cadence essentially what it is and how to do it right I mean every single day I talk to sales reps Executives and um I get a pretty interesting mix of responses when I just kind of you know ask how many people out there are are actively doing and managing a successful sales Cadence versus how many out there kind of have a program and and it needs a little bit of TLC and there's also a lot of companies sales reps out there who don't know what a sales Cadence is and so I just always can I jump in here real quick too we we we jokingly put it down as a third half sales cadences and manage them a third know what they are and like to implement them and a third have no idea what a sales Cadence is and we thought we were being generous so we ra you're smiling already does that resonate with you at all in your consultative business it does it it really does I it's it's amazing to me how how few cadences there actually are um and that's if you look at I think this is why sales performance overall is actually like such a small conversion number because like there's enough data out there that shows that it takes between seven and 12 meaningful touches and connections before someone will actually even start to pay attention to you yet the average salesperson gives up before four and I think the reason they give up before four is because there's no leadership in that company building out meaningful cadences that are going to actually have them sticking with that hitting that sweet spot s to 12 or whatever um so I think you're spot on I see it unfortunately on the regular well and Our Hope was and you can see at the problem at the bottom here I got 99 problems but my pitch a't W so fig if we can get our 30- second commercial dialed in you can plug it into some sort of a system then you're off to the races and C is this the right slide for you at this point um yeah actually let's go back one slide because to Dan's Point Dan you actually stole the words right from my mouth it's just no but hey it's great minds think alike right so I mean in sales planning is everything right and it's you know not only planning but doing everything that you can to really kind of consistently keep that pipeline full and you know as you know sales rep sometimes we don't have the best followup plans sometimes it's once a day once a month on a Friday on like a Tuesday some of us really have a hard time with that consistency and it's actually that inconsistency that really slows down um that sales process and lets a lot of those um opportunities really kind of slip through the cracks I have a plenty of horror stories about those myself that we can always share here for for a different date but I was just about to say that research actually shows that your prospects need to hear from you an average of seven times before they actually decide to pick up the phone call you back and so and it's just that they don't want to not talk to you but they get hundreds of Co of phone calls yeah you know Outreach every single day so chances are that they're just busy um and your Outreach is just just kind of um um you know also potentially ending up in their junk mail so the key to the Cadence is you know having that consistent followup so you do get a response back to them so yeah we'll kind of talk just a little bit more about um you know why do you ultimately need a sales Cadence um how to track and measure and what are some good examples of one so John you can go ahead and and jump right to that next slide even that Leatherman tools example that when I reached out when I finally got a hold of them they had already down selected from eight vendors to four they were in the middle of an RFP process and if I had them been hounting them I wouldn't have inserted myself you know at the at Midstream and and again I was that was when I was new to the role I was afraid to pick up the phone because I thought gosh if I get a SE sweet decision maker on I don't want to say the wrong thing I don't know anything about Staffing and then I had this Epiphany my competition is not waiting to pick up the phone I better just start getting putting myself out there and right and than goodness we did well and with sales too right it's it's sometimes about being at the right place at the right time and that's what's going to happen too if you actually do you know a a successful sales Cadence so um you know ultimately with a sales Cadence right it's just creating those sequences of touch points so you can really establish a connection with um your prospect right as you go through that that initial Cadence um you know ultimately if if you don't get a response from them that's when you kind of make that decision is now not the time or you kind of you know do once a month six months um Outreach from there so really the whole idea is to diversify that Outreach across across multiple channels because you don't know what specific Prospect likes what do they like a phone call a text message an email LinkedIn request um I'm a little bit old school where I'm a firm believer of an in person visit so um you know by creating that schedule of of specific Outreach it kind of really takes out the guest work as to when you should follow up with your prospect too and really creating that consistent Outreach plus um if you run a successful Cadence with the appropriate Tech stack all of that information is logged into your CRM um long are the days of that tribal knowledge um seen all that too well in passing it passing information down around the campfire like or a rep leaves and they take all of that information with them because they didn't put any of that information into a system so I've seen it all too well and all that still happens too much today I I I would love to have a a sales focused demo here with Staffing monthly or with you know Nissa just covering the best practices of the aviante CRM because I feel like just by and far in this industry there's not enough usage of crms to really manage the Cadence have that structured framework that you talked about so I think that would be a great followon session of this one yeah absolutely any time um and so the goal of the sales Cadence right is you know ultimately to to close more of those deals in a shorter period of time so it's it's a win-win for everybody you want to jump to the next Slide John can I ask a question on that one Eric I need need to change slides John is fine so you said obviously the ultimate goal do what's your approach like teaching the salesperson like the micro goal of each step right because like if when they're making their very first cold call or maybe they're leaving a voicemail or not or they're sending out an email like or a LinkedIn message like the goal isn't to close a deal with that micro interaction like do you ever take time to like teach your salespeople the the goal of each little step so they can know if they're if it's a pass fail at the micro level before getting to that ultimate goal of getting a new customer yeah I mean you need to really take the time listen to your customer right understand what they want um and and ultimately how you can provide a solution for them because there's a lot of times where every customer is not going to be the best fit for you nor you may be the best fit for them so it's all about understanding who they are what they're looking to solve will your services match what they're looking for and then just kind of really taking the time to build a relationship with them um because even if it's not a good fit now doesn't mean it's not going to be a good fit in a year two years or three years so it's you know ultimately to really kind of slowing down and listening a good sales rep should always listen to what their prospects are saying um firm believer of you should only talk 30% they should talk the other 70% so yeah I don't think we do a great job of that Dan at all and I think I think when we do not only does it help them tactically with what their goal is for that one step but it also creates some like almost like an artificial Finish Line like hey you did this now that's done we we don't do that with salespeople enough at the end of the month and so or or at the micro step like and so without that like Finish Line it just feels like you're constantly on this never ending hamster wheel of like I just keep going and going and going and if you can drill down to like hey you've hit the goal for this step like you booked the discovery call you you made x amount of dials we know that activity will lead to results like whatever that artificial Finish Line is on that step I think it's important and I I I like defining it I like teaching people hey when you're making a cold call it is incredibly unlikely that you're going to close a deal on that call and it's I know the end goal is to get a customer to get a good customer that's qualified But ultimately when you're making a call you know a cold call or even an email or whatever like the goal really is to get enough information to move it the process forward or to schedule a meeting or to find out they're not qualified like any one of those things is an acceptable goal yeah I'll take it all yeah you know and it's like and I like to teach that because that way they know what they're what they're shooting for hey when I'm sending this email out I got to write it in a way not to get them to sign a document as a c as a new client but just to either get a meeting or get more information or just to get to the get to the note quicker right and as long as they know that's the of that stuff I think it guides them better in that step versus overreaching and basically maybe premature presentation and turning people away because now you sound like the Sham wow guy right that's my advancing the ball in any in any strip is is approved that's the goal yep spot on 100% um just wanted to kind of take some time just to talk um a little bit more about some best practices around that Cadence um you know as you know right you just need to understand who your who who who you're speaking to exactly what we just said you know it's it's it's will it based off of your target market region service yes you just need to take the time to do the research to really understand who your potential customer is what's their pain and ultimately how you can solve that for them as John said what is your 32 commercial you need to know that you need to understand that um really kind of seeing how it does take you know that that contact with a prospect up to seven times your ideal Cadence should be around anywhere around that 10 uh touch points you always want to space them out a day or two you never really want to stock anyone and uh you know touch or do a phone call an email and a text all on the same day and step one that might be a little bit too much but I'm a firm believer of um making a a phone call and then sending out that that first first um email day one right just you know hey Bob I reached out just wanted to to introduce myself I left you a voice message so um also to the email content should catch your prospect's attention it must be informative intriguing something that relates to their pain it must look good and keep it simple all too many times I have gotten so many sales outreaches where like the font's horrible it's four paragraphs long and I don't have the attention to even spend the time on it so just have it be short sweet simple into the point 100% so a couple questions on that one so so is is the phone call and the email is that your goto lead off to start a campaign or start a we even have an example here if you want to see kind of the yeah this is a yeah thank you John I think that first step should always just be a phone call uh followed up by an email referring to the phone call right and then next step uh day two to LinkedIn connection I mean this is just a really good example of what I've used in the past and what I've see a lot of um successful sales reps used and considering our T target audience Dan where we had folks that were like a third have no idea what this what this what a Cadence even is a third would like to implement it but haven't for whatever business reason so do do you have a philosophy on that first step yeah than what we're showing is there a question behind the question so no I'm I'm always curious so like I I do I've actually a lot of my campaigns so I have a number of templates for 30-day campaigns like this I also run rolling 12we campaigns um that kind of spread the frequency and intensity out to to maximize the window of potential needing of your services but uh usually a call and a voicemail is a is a good lead off sometimes believe it or not some sometimes I'll mix it up one of my templates for 30-day campaign actually starts off with a oldfashioned letter um and I've actually got teams of people are getting traction out of that old fashioned letter now I've been doing the same thing Dan we call it account based marketing so our marketing team obviously handles the broad Outreach in the Enterprise space and then everything we do is personalized um and I think the letter is great or even flipping it around and doing the email first and then and saying hey I'm about to call you in just a few minutes this is going to be the nature of my voicemail this is what I'm reaching out about um just to keep it fresh even for the for the individual producer yeah but I I I definitely I definitely like this layout here and one one shout out that I'd be remiss IFI and say is obviously you know Ai and chat GPT was a big theme of connect friend and it is you know to Erica's Point your emails you know two two keys here your subject line think of it as like your Tweet like this is your headline like this is what is going to get people to to click to open right so be very to the point on this one the best data right now shows seven to nine you know words in the the subject line if you can incorporate their name or their company name that's going to incre increase uh open ability if you will uh but feel free to use chat GPD to come up with a great just email subject line that fits within that parameter and then to your point Erica about the the length of email More than 70% of people are reading their emails on their phones now so I highly recommend if you want to check this draft your email up send it to yourself open it on your mobile device and if you actually have to scroll uh like you're scrolling through the gram to get to the bottom of your email it's too long you failed yep so that's the I only sentences broken apart as if they're paragraphs for mobile optimization is critical so true I agree uh Erica anything more you want to touch on this Closing one thing is to also touch on too right I mean you constantly have to retry things try it a first time really kind of say what was my my response if it didn't work I always switch it up right you can't constantly redo the same things and expect different results so that's my last thing that I have and and John I'll pass the mic over to you up I and I I agree on that point right there one one tracking tool that I have and it's old school it's in Excel is that I like stre on you once you uh once you the CRM I know but you'll hear once you hear what I'm about to say if you can show me that aviante does this right okay you got it I'm gonna sign on the dotted line right so but this is what it is like I once I build my Cadence out I'll actually track the close points at each stage and then I'll literally be like okay I'll see how long a Cadence is taking me let's say am I in that seven to 12 range but I also look to see how often a certain technique that's in the Cadence is actually closing above and beyond anything else so if I see a particular email hitting and let's say it's an email later in the Cadence I might try to move it up earlier in the Cadence earlier on right like so like I'll look at stuff like that to see the efficacy of each each Cadence touch point um on that one so I actually measure each touch Point against each other and it's a little bit easier for me to tabulate the data in Excel because I'm an I see the world in rows and columns so I think anything you're doing that's around intentionality behind your results um is great and obviously that's you know uh a four 401 level class uh that you're doing with your pivot tables um I know we're getting close on time this was our last section um you know this this differenti from your competition was actually born out of again another just sort of Grassroots conversation I was having with some of my former colleagues from Ado and ronad had ended up is in leadership roles and and national sales roles Regional sales roles with with other staffing firms you know we all tend to move around and so they had realized I was at aviante and they asked hey I'm now an aviante client I'm going in to pitch this large Fortune 100 RFP response would you come in and take 20 minutes of my hour and half of my my presentation just to talk about tech and how we differentiate by using aviante and this was actually pre-working acquisition when these conversations started happening so back then we would lean on things like the talent Journey you know how is that impacted when we when we think about um uh that sort of commoditization it doesn't matter if you know it's a decision maker who's you know got three temps or a decision maker who has 3,000 they're getting a lot of calls they've probably been in this the in the HR recruiting space for a while they've had relationships with multiple staffing firms and seen the evolution and they truly want to know why is your how is your fishing pole better you guys are all sifting from the same zip codes the same skill sets the same kind of people how are you not a commodity and so we were able to to come in and we had we were actually two for three on on presentations where we had we had been brought in to kind of coell and then you have the whole mobile piece that started to accelerate r that consumerization of Staffing and what I mean by that is uh when you order something off of Amazon it's extremely easy it takes zero amount of time we always say that we value the workers but if we really valued our the the contractors we would also value their time and so at aan for example we're trying to make it as easy it is to buy something off of Amazon as it is to accept a position and so being able to demonstrate that through the mobile piece is pretty impactful I'm going to skip ahead a couple slides here just to show you this when these are just some examples of of websites that are out there when you think of and this is their homepage this is just a screenshot when you think of all the things that they could spend their valuable marketing dollars on to get the most amount of Roi out of their out of their spend the number one thing that these firms were leading with is mobile um and what's very cool about this is that happens to be our app um but even if it wasn't it just goes to show you how impactful that mobile jour journey is to impacting the talent experience and so when you can talk about those types of things again whether it's your mobile app or whether it's your candidate portal or your hi-touch you know Special Sauce that makes your firm unique um those are the things that you want to bring out when when I was selling Staffing Services I was no exception I had one little PowerPoint slide that used to be an animated gif of our chatbot talking to a worker about a forklift experience and he starts talking about being a smoker mid mid and that little animated gift turned so many heads in boardrooms when we were responding to rfps cuz like wow that's different that makes me sit up my other Mickey Mouse tool was I it was I should say Mickey Mouse but it was basically just a voicemail um it was called Harkin and it would do after hour screening of call center candidates for second and third shift which was amazing because the branch closes at 5:30 you'd be able to come back in in the morning your calendar was filled up from the chat bot you had all these uh interviews to go through and proc aspects that were buying Staffing Services could very tangibly wrap their head around that piece so I've been kind of going for a minute here but Dan does that differentiating through tech make makes sense whether regardless of example one 100% And this is one that and I I I gushed over Rip's talk at connect and I was like if you can just give me that slide deck and I can modify it slightly like that should really be the talk track for differentiation for staffing agencies that are aviante customers because what you're building with the end to end platform of aviante and this is I don't mean this to be a commercial for aviante but this is just answers your question but you're also integrating mobile first which is where the industry is going it's where the candidate is going it makes the journey better you're you're pulling in simple VMS to actually show some love to the client and give them a a compliance tool and a unification tool that kind of basically directly connects to the process which is huge but when I hear a lot of agencies give their 30- second commercial it tends to talk about things like we have access to to all the same job boards we have great recruiters we have great customer service all those things and Savvy companies like the really good clients that actually look to partner with staffing agencies as an extension of their contingent management plan right this is what they're thinking yes they like leveraging your resources but they also want to leverage your technology Suite they want to know that they're going to be getting tools and processes that are going to enhance their recruiting efforts to bring in a stronger Pipeline and Tech technology is where that lives these days and if you can actually demonstrate your stack and say hey where do you think most of the candidates are going to go to me that's mobile first that has all these things the you know the the change card I can pay you know all this stuff like you show all them like just forget about any competition where do you think the candidates are going to choose to to work through for an agency this with all of these tools that's candidate focused or this company that you can't even tell really what they're doing right and it's a no-brainer for the prospect at that point so I I love I love that you're including this in your differentiator and I think there's an even further not spin to put on that but another way that we would differentiate is we would take think about everything you just said and and think about our regional leader selling whether they have a the backing of a big Global Staffing firm or not both have the best story to tell you can say things like we have all these tools we either have the tools of the big boys or we have the backing of The Bigs behind us back at corporate to give us access to all these tools yet our definition of customer service is defined here at the local level you know we don't you know we you want to demonstrate that caring is a part of your DNA and to be able to say that yeah we've got all these great tools but guess what we understand your business here because we're Regional or because we're local you can say those things regardless of whatever type of firm you work for I just think that's another way of like taking the tool stuff which is great and they need to see it and then bringing it back down to but yet we're here we're local we understand you yeah if that makes sense um and there's other ways to align the prospect yeah that's another one I put on there um I mentioned it earlier you know their mission statement from their website is very similar to our firm's mission statement that type of caring as a part of your DNA can really resonate with people and is again not something they expect salespeople to be talking about founding values and and alignment on um on that on that level that non-surface level um even even things like you know skill marketing candidates um or or even trying to expand an existing relationship where they think of you for light industrial all day long and filling those roles but they would never think of you for an engineer or an interim CFO but being um cognizant of those openings and then just approaching the client like hey I saw you had this open wreck um on your website for over 30 days I felt like I'd be doing a disservice not to put this person in front of you you know those are Dan you're smiling what thoughts on that one I just love it because it's also using the negative reverse and it's basically being Evangelical it's basically saying hey I I I I I can only stand by so long and let you do this to yourself before I can step in and offer some help you know like I just I love it that's why I I just love the approach um and I think yeah so the other thing too is you know I don't remember exactly where this fit in CP but um they've got to learn this stuff from somewhere and not everybody has a Dan more you know in their organization that they can tap into for this kind of training but I can tell you I didn't have one when I when and I don't think Erica did although she had Dan Kimmel never mind uh but my point being shout out to Dan Kimmel yeah shout out Kimmel Yoda when we um when I got first taken out by my SVP when I had move this is even before Staffing uh moved into that Regional leader role and we went out for a day of sales I used the things that he said that day for years as part of my process and so they're just and so when we closed this out we really wanted to challenge um the people that had come to the to the to the um the breakout session to go back and spend this time with your people there is literally no better substitute um and and so it wasn't just about directly building confidence in those salespeople it was also about building the confidence of the people that were in the room with us that didn't necessarily carry a bag but they were responsible for that sales leadership within their organization to go back and be willing to invest in sh in them because like I opened this call with we all have imposter syndrome too we don't know why anybody would want to listen to us and I think a lot of the people in that room who ran a lot of Revenue and Staffing uh also just needed that kind of confidence boost to go back and be like they really need to hear from you they would love that quality time and and I so I I basically Echo what you said like that not a lot of organizations don't have this type of content these type of leaders that can actually like pour into you know the junior salese the traines that kind of stuff and that's why you know going to a conference like connect I mean it was huge like your speaker lineup wasn't all just about the new bells and whistles of aviante like yeah that stuff was really cool and it's fun to see but you had so many breakout workshops that actually focused on just helping your customers get better like it that's that's meaningful you know and the fact that you and Erica are here now and you it's not just for this group it's you guys do this for your customers like you will literally get in the T and help your customers learn love it and that's just a core value of aviante that I appreciate and if I can you know a couple just Shameless plugs for me that's if if you're watching this and you're a national you know nationally independently owned staffing agency like Nissa is a great Association and we're focused on training and development to get these sort of resources out to you and we've got uh our leadership conference coming up next week and this is a kind of spoiler alert we are putting together the Staffing sales Summit early next year that's going to be a conference purely dedicated to selling that's it recruiters go somewhere else sales people this is where you belong every session is for you so Staffing sales Summit is gonna be coming out early 2024 so yeah we're bringing these resources to you but anyway I want I was that was my so take it back away it's it's our no just in closing I mean yeah obviously caring is a part of our DNA um you want to make yourself feel better the fastest way to do it is to do something for somebody else so we we it is really tough out there the like I said at the start you know the sales Outreach piece has changed even in just nine months uh this year and it will continue to change but I think things like my my personal belief is um that pattern Interruption the differentiating the being intentional and tight about what you say that so you can build rapport quickly with somebody who was part of that decision that's now causing pain like that stuff's never going to change and if you can and for a lot of salese this is is just Dumbo his magic feather stuff this is just them you know giving them the confidence that they can fly but they could have flown the whole time without any of this so whatever resonates with you hopefully this is like any leadership book that you've read or or Business book or or relationship book there's chapters you love there's chapters you could do without um if you grabb anything out of this that helps you make one more dial or one more call or one more bit of Outreach or tighten up that presentation then Eric and I have done our job so thank you so much for having us on pleas any Parting Shot there Erica I think John you said it perfectly yeah we're just super excited about this very passionate about it and and thank you so much again for having us on well I love it I know that when I'm at connect next year I'm gonna ask them not to schedule me at the same time as you so I can actually sit into your session and hear it firstand throughout I'm sure so this again everyone watching this literally you're just the benefactor of me I just wanted to see them present this that was it this is all for me but yall get to share in the benefit of this too because this was this was really good stuff so John Eric I grateful for you uh glad to have you here on Staffing monthly sharing your wisdom and knowledge and I I wish nothing but the best for you all thank you very much Dan thank you Dan