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good afternoon I'm going to try this and we'll talk a little bit today about the three hours it's a framework I've probably put together over the last 15 20 years of my scar tissue of customer support customer success high tech and sass I'm the GBP of customer success at Oracle in their marketing cloud being there now for about 7 months a relatively new Oracle for those of you that don't know Oracle 38 billion dollar company quite big but what's interesting about Oracle it's only 5% SAS so it's going through this interesting evolvement as well as it moves into SAS as its you know main revenue stream so I'm really excited to be part of that journey a little bit about me so prior companies came up through the telecom side I would say so juniper with Abed head of quality world why quality head of customer excellence user design at juniper and riverbed service source founders of so a service source was a renewals management company so a lot of experience in the art and science of renewal management and how to do it correctly as well as create lift their their model was if you didn't create more retention or more upsell you didn't get paid so really learn to understand what are the drivers that drive renewals up and also upsell up so that was a great learning their SAP metrics the founders of MPs so got a lot of experience around deploying NPS programs and and last company before Oracle was marquetta where had the pleasure working with Jason hommes over the last three years and and built the account management team there so how many you here have ever played craps okay how many of you here would profess to actually be any good at craps good not just me the most complicated game I think ever we had an opportunity at a team event to play craps had some money and you know between working out the field line the past line apparently if you roll a seven you know all all deals are off and a good stat if anyone's ever playing craps it takes eight point five two rolls to get to a seven so just remember that it's really will help you in your gambling ambitions but after about an hour of losing all my money at craps money sort of felt like this right I was somewhat frustrated fused it's pretty sure I wasn't gonna play craps again doubtful of my success of ever becoming a professional gambler and what I found it when you talk to customer success managers and you talk to customers success front line and my what I'm going to talk here just to put it in context is not the large definition of customer success that support the services but more the frontline owning adoption retention upsell customer engagement but a lot of times we need to talk to customer success resources either the frontline managers or the frontline agents there's a lot going on this is a very new world for them and it feels just as much for them like they're playing craps and and sort of having the confidence that they're really actually knowing the rules of the game and they're going to actually change you know get the results and do what they're being asked to do is a challenge so - one of the things I've done over probably the last three companies now but it's really come together for me is this framework and they call it three hours and it's a way of I think galvanizing your conversation with your customers how you think about setting up the teams how the teams think about what their roles and responsibilities are the processes the practices the enablement the measures let me talk to these so the first one is what I call relationship management relationship and it's everything to do with how you touch the customer the conversations you have with whom how often the content the depth of breath the frequency is it virtual is it face-to-face it's everything around relationship management the understanding of their business goals their needs the value exchange the next model is then risk management so if we're doing what the relationship management components correctly now there's another element then around how to identify risk as well as how to identify rewards so I'm going to go into each of these ones a little bit more detail but then the third is revenue management so if we're doing relationship management correctly we'll do risk management correctly ideally the the benefit to the customer and to us as a vendor is revenue management we're creating revenue and profit for the customer and we should be creating revenue and profit for that for the company so how many of you here have got teenage kids pew about a year ago I remember going home and I've got a daughter that's 18 and her friend was sitting next to her and just crying her eyes out and she just found out that her boyfriend had to split up with her what was traumatic about this experience there was that her boyfriend hadn't told her she'd actually found out on Facebook I sort of used that analogy to how I think a lot of companies break up with us right if we haven't created a relationship a relationship not a an email exchange and a touch point but a true relationship we run the risk of being unfriended on Facebook right and that's not obviously what any of us want to do so I think when we talk about relationship we have to think about all these different components now I'm going to go and do a deep dive into something that I call partnership review and I'm gonna share some examples there but as I think about relationship the things that sort of keep me up at night and what I focus on are a one people change in bias in in the Mar tech and AD tech world it's very common for CMO to change jobs every 18 months that's a good thing and a bad thing it's a good thing if your CMO loves you because in theory you've now just created another land and expand if you follow that relationship great it's a bad thing if the new CMO coming in has already got a bias it's also a bad thing if you've never made value visible pass that single point and then you're there for your single-threaded so a lot of people are spoken about this already but it's it's absolutely critical especially when you're selling services and solutions that are intended to create value that you you work you know up at the top and you go wide as well as deep so you know one of the strategies we use is have this sales guy as a relationship have the IT contact the CIO is a relationship so you're not single-threaded up at the top the other thing that I think is very key is who are you talking to decision makers or practitioners now we spent a lot of time today's very interesting how many discussions have been about onboarding can we talk about onboarding a lot that onboarding the product I would ask us to consider onboarding a relationship how do we onboard a relationship we actually at SAP metrics Marketo and doing the Oracle is we're switching around the order so the customer success manager the customer Account Manager starts engaging with the relationship either pre signature at signature because what typically happens is no one talks to the signature person until the renewals up so they sign the paper it drops down three levels everyone starts implementing and all of a sudden no one's talked spoken to the executive so it's really important to think about relationship management throughout that customer journey and think about really two different paths how you engage decision-makers throughout that journey constantly versus practitioner and think about the quantity versus the quality one of the things we've also been focused on and we I suppose we're spoiled because we can drink our own champagne in Mar Tec and our tech is this ability to create intelligent virtual conversations you know we've got really good at having a sales cycle feel like the customers being engaged with a sales guy with relevant content at the right time with the right message we've got to get to that same point really post selling customer success so understanding the profile of your customer understanding what it means what success means for them understanding all the attributes that can allow you to target adoption transformation success value messaging around what is useful to them so that the engagement and touch of your people can be balanced so the customers experience is still monthly touched quarterly touch but there's a lot of a lot of communication occurring virtually versus always requiring a CSM to pick up the phone or handcraft an email so I think your 10 intelligent virtual conversations are definitely an area to keep driving to maintain that relationship things but want to talk about there and just drop down deeply into partnership reviews now we've used the word value and sharing here a model this is called Decker and you can go online you can YouTube it it's a really interesting model to get you to think differently about how you talk to your customers and the one thing it does is it asks the CSM to have or the account manager to have a point of view to understand what are the listeners how do they feel about the subject you're going into what's your point of view going into a discussion a qbr a Business Review or even a monthly touch point what do you want what's the general action you're wanting from them and what's in it for them it's amazing how many CSM's turn up to a meeting and there the question always is tell me what's important to you and it's a one way transference constantly and they believe the customer has to tell everything to them customers our partners here we should know their needs we should know their business we should know the competition we should be reading their 10 Kay's we should know where they are on their maturity curve we should know where they are and how many support calls their challenges so we need to be going in and having a of you around what's going to make them successful but we need obviously understand stuff first so it really ask that if you have an opportunity and that that slide on the right got really funky is think about this process as creating a storyline before we even get into content and slides if you can ask every CSM going into a business review what's the big idea you're trying to have a conversation with the customer here how do you listeners feel about it what are the general actions you want them to take and what's the benefit in it for them you'll either get deer headlight you know lights or a deer with headlights or well you'll get your good CSM's really carving out the other slider wanna share is then this partnership review slide I've probably reiterated this slide in various forms of life probably four or five times now I put this in every partnership review deck there is material behind it but it's a great opportunity to have the customer talk through their perception of you as a vendor now the first two are around value and impact this could say digital marketing value and impact it could say Net Promoter value market impact it could say renewal management it could say whatever our business is but it's how does that how does that customer view our solution our services in driving value and business impact the great thing about this first line is it gets the customer to articulate and revalidate their goals their strategy how we're helping serve up how we're helping solve it but also how would they rate it where they give it a red yellow green the other line I put in beneath that is transformation and the one thing we're all very well aware of is you may be good and great today but if you stop being good and great today are not constantly striving to be good and great tomorrow and constantly changing it becomes old news so we have to constantly be pushing our customers to transform on their journey to be using more solution more adoption more and a lot of times that's uncomfortable it's constant change management but we have to keep calling it out then we get the customers give the perspective of the product support services account management I always up instability if a customer's not willing to even be a sales reference for you obviously some customers can't be because of policy but those aside when customers aren't even willing just to be a sales reference you know you've got a challenge and so some of these questions and they're filling in really highlight where you need to work and it creates a lot of the material then for ongoing monthly check-ins and business reviews I've seen these I've seen meetings where literally we've spent like an hour on this slide and the amount of information that's come out has been phenomenal and it sets us up for the year around what we need to work on and we keep going back and we keep validating and making improvements so how many of you here see a snake how many of you here's your rope very interesting fact that you're you're wired to process fear seven times greater than reward this comes from an old Buddhist story about a monk walking down a path and he mistakes the robe for a snake and then he shines a light and he sees it's a rope what's very interesting there about the way we're wired and how we process stuff though is also how we then think about and manage risk so I'm going to go again through the stuff in green the loss reviews them and spend a bit more time going deeper there but here's here's an interesting factoid I'd asked you to go back and maybe pressure test you organizations in my experience looking at dashboards and customer health dashboards and then looking at account churn and dollar churn I've typically found that we're churning more than the red pie chart shows us you know red pie chart shows 5% 10% account attrition you're like why and one of the reasons I believe is when I've spoken to CSM's about this a lot of them are actually conservative about scoring and putting accounts in red status because everyone then swarms around the fact it's red and what are they doing about it so they're a little bit conservative about putting it red so I'd asked you to go back and look at your account retention and dollar of attention numbers and then look at your red yellow green pie chart and tell me where the red is less or greater than because in theory your red pie should be greater than your churn rate because you're saving some back the other thing and we've spoken about this today is green is better we spend so much time how many of you here have got a red account process how many of you a critical account process how many of you postmortem do an analysis on why an account went red why an account when critical and learn from it okay how many of you take your green accounts and understand why they're green few hands few hands we've spoken about that it's really important to understand green SAP metrics rykel days he was all around understand green if you can profile and brute blueprint successful customers and replicate success by understanding what makes green your Reds will go away and what is not necessarily what makes a red account is what makes a green account but we spend so much time because of the way we're wired so much time spent on red and on the snake not enough time spent on the rope push versus pull a lot of time talking about intelligence is there a silver bullet for retention I honestly my experience don't think so you know unless unless you're in a maybe very low volume customer base where data truly is a predictor of of churn my experience is you have to pull risk out either you can look at data you can get some flags but you have to pull risk on the customer as well hence why relationship management is so key in especially in SMB mid-market and enterprise v SMB may be more reliance on data and getting that push but as you move into SMB mid-market and enterprise absolutely a pull everyone I'm sure has got drivers of risk and loss I'm sure if we were to look at loss codes ninety percent of them would say competitive pricing or competitive products if left to the devices of a CSM let me talk about one thing though I think is a really interesting process to put in and it's called loss reviews so a loss review is different than a loss code again if you rely on the CSM's to always pick the right loss codes it's incredible how many CSM's believe they're not in control of the loss by competitive positioning competitive pricing I had no control over it what this is actually a very different discussion this isn't it this is an opportunity to actually sort of do an interview and a coaching opportunity with the CSM and one of the things I do and you can either have a game based on account volume you can either pick a couple of the top accounts lost per month per CSM you could pick all of them it just depends on the bandwidth to do it but if you can make this a regular monthly process and ask the CSM forget the renewal window ask the CSM did you understand the use case what was the business impact and value impact how are you engaged when was the last business review you did when did you become aware this account was at risk what plays did you run and after they've gone through all of that and what what have you learnt now that if you were in that same scenario would you do differently my learning going through this as you try to sort of change I think the mindset of some CEO somes in believing they're out of control versus in control of the situation is they start to realize the account management of the customer which really is not the same as renewal management but the account management which is all around the relationship and understanding value and also understanding how to mitigate risk around value occurs nine months twelve months before a renewal discussion and that bulb starts going off and getting illuminated as well as there's many opportunities where they may not be aware of plays they may not be reaching out they may not be exercising the full company or their plays may just not exist so I've often times also bought in competitive intelligence for marketing and have them listen to some of these stories as well it's a great opportunity for managers to learn how to coach CSM's through renewal cycles but again it's incredibly valuable and how many CSM's learn how to think about account management differently we do this right then in theory we get show me the money and I've got 10 minutes so I'm going to skip through some of this stuff high high level though I honestly think you have to hire customer success people with a operational DNA a Florence Nightingale DNA and a sales DNA if they haven't got that sales DNA they can't discuss mutual value they can't they can't defend mutual value and and they just won't be able to create revenue versus maintained revenue and I think this role between upsell and cross-sell and retention is is absolutely key in the revenue creation as we've spoken about it all comes down there at the end of day you've got to measure and manage it measure what you're managing I sort of got exposed to this as service sources we started getting into really breaking down atomically how to think about retention and renewal management a couple of things and again this tidbits when you start thinking about measuring there's a big difference between thinking about a forecast and a booking numbers from a finance perspective versus understanding and atomically the health of your base and what's occurring so first of all we think about contract value it has to be the current contract value of the customer going in to the renewal it's not what was set you know at the beginning of the year think about what was resolved you don't always get all of your renewals resolved on time that starts then talking about pacing and renewal Sherman but ultimately what you've closed and what you've resolved there's going to be two things you've either lost some customers completely full loss or you've kept some customers but you've lost revenue from them they've either downgraded a subscription component or they've taken a line item off completely and ultimately you're left with then retained dollars of those dollars left with those customers you're then going to upsell some and then you're going to cross sell some and you're going to end up with an ending contract value resolution rate retention rate expansion rate and then net annual renewal rate in the handwheel retention rate I really don't care whether we call these things these terms or apple-pie what I would say though is it's really key that every success manager executive should be able to measure these things and atomically because you can get some really interesting scenarios like we've said where you can be having stuff being sold and being ripped out as a partial loss and then being a Krotz and then having a cross sell and you've got a perpetual rip and replace motion yet your renewal rate is 100 percent so understanding these dimensions is really key so the big picture the three hour model fits into something then and I've shown you some examples here of not knowledge versus operational so one of the things I've seen a game is CSM's especially in new space is that customers are interested not so much around the product and how to use the product but they're interested in why to use the product how does this product solve my business problem so it's a domain knowledge an area that I think a lot of our enablement of CSM's is poor in we do a lot of training around product training but why to use it versus how to use it is that I think an enablement gaps a lot of experience and our customers experience that we then though from that get into more operational management which the same relationship management risk management revenue management and I've sort of cooled out here a few of the things I've gone through but there's a lot of other disciplines here to really think about truly operationalizing these components but then managing and monitoring how they're executed the awareness of them the adoption of them creating consistent enablement so what's next what now so here's my ask of all of you first thing I would do this has got a bit funky as well first thing I would do is go back and look at your managers calendars and look at your CSM calendars and at a high high level this color code how much time are they spending doing relationship management versus risk management versus renewal management and even how much time are they spending being enabled on the domain and enabled in the product get a sense of that that will tell you whether they are behind the elephant with the shovel or ahead of the elephant it really does it really is an interesting observation secondly you know close plans I didn't get to it here but like close plans and deal reviews the best forecasting I've seen is when you sit down and you actually start going in detail around closed plans and having a step-by-step process to really what what is what drives good renewals the blue one which I can't read inspect health write will get in this read base unless your read accounts are greater than your churn account rate you're probably not actually truly capturing the risk in your base so one of the things we do is we go we actually have bi-weekly meetings and we review the health of the base with the CSM's and we look at the red accounts and we make sure is there a plan how long is the plan should it be elevated or critical but we also look at the green accounts and we look at the touch which accounts have been touched in 30 days which accounts haven't been touched when was the last business review do you have the right mappings at an executive level at a contact level when was the last engagement with the practitioner versus the decision-maker really important to focus on that base hygiene management touch management relation management risk management learn from losses put a monthly loss review on the calendar and just start learning from the losses and have some interviews it feels a little bit uncomfortable for CSM's but that's okay right but they learn a lot and then also look at a swooshing monthly 3r enablement swear you get the CSM's and other leaders to get up and talk about what they've done what they've learned what they've been enabled in where their can take some of these practices and deploying them across the rest of the team so keep it simple you and I think the 3r framework you know we let's not create a craps table out of that out there for them I'm more blackjack and pontoon keep it simple now I do have a question so I mentioned how many times does it take to roll a seven in craps and I've got a little gift Kelly Dekker lips like five minutes down the road for me so she gave me the book and it's it's there Decker book so my ask is for anyone if you can get on the slack anyone that can put that number in and win the book so I know any answers yet how many rolls does it take to typically hit a seven on craps yes no Burke Eric good good job man thank you thank you very much pleasure