Unlock the Potential of the Customer Success Funnel for Education

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well I want to welcome everyone to the customer success webinar series brought to you by client success we are broadcasting live from the base of the beautiful mountains in silicon slopes Utah in Toronto Canada I am burr Calder vice president of marketing at client success buy and success I'll say a little about us is a customer success management platform that helps leaders and CSM's manage retain and grow their customer base we do this by providing customer success teams real time customer insights communication and collaboration at the right time across the customer journey during today's webinar we will be hearing from Julie rosovsky partner and customer success advisor of winning by design Julie is a seasoned customer success leader having pioneered customer success in the early days of marking automation a telecoil and running customer success and account management at influitive today we are into something really awesome we are going to be doing a live whiteboard session and which gives you the ability to collaborate so asking questions you can use the Q&A you will also be able to use at some time you can unmute yourself if you have a specific question when Julie asks and we'll be collaborating through this whiteboard session we are recording this webinar so the insights you see on the whiteboard or in the discussion you hear through the audio will be recorded and you sent to you via email right after a few hours after this webinar ends we encourage you to use the Q&A feature one of the things we love about this is bringing customer success people from all over the world providing insights questions answering those questions and really creating a unique webinar experience that is very collaborative it's my pleasure to welcome Julie to the webinar and I will stop sharing you'll see her screen and we'll get going in the whiteboard session so welcome Julie to the client success customer success webinar series how to handle churn as an organization and keep your company focused on growth thank you so much appreciate intro and welcome everybody bergamot shirt this is a option but people can turn on their videos they're welcome to and that I can see there were normal faces as well so this is going to be a little bit of a different webinar I think then you're used to but this is more of a style that we use that wedding by design when we're doing interactive video because the best way to learn is by collaborating learning together so we're going to kick things off first of all where I'm going to walk you through a little bit of a sass method for sale or customer success just so we're all on the same sort of playing ground of what we're talking about here so everyone knows of the fun right and so the typical funnel that you have in sales is you have awareness education and then selection right everyone knows this is a few stated in a variety of State is there but there's a second half of the final winner in sass and a lot of people don't talk about this the second half the funnel is where the all-important customer success can come people so here you have same concept three stages you have onboarding usage or what I like to call the impact stage and then you have growing so we're going to spend most of our time today talking about these two last stages of the funnel this is what's key to your organization's success in fact while more logos are definitely so important seventy five to ninety three percent of your revenue and your business is going to come from the growing stage that's through upsells cross-sells renewals resells and advocacy to bring in new logos okay what a pause here for a moment Brooke I see the child I see there in the chat window flashing a lot and obviously you're maintaining your question question answer before I move on past this and anyone have any questions I think you know people can also use the chat function on the sidebar to I think we're good right now okay just checking but just so people know this is the type of interactive video them expecting so this is as much for you to learn as well as for me to share some of the insights okay so one question we had is once again explaining what is a es just maybe some people miss that and then what is UI G on the end education selection on board I like to use the letter so that way my spelling thanks all right someone was mentioning in the middle maybe is there a handoff between you got you know this is where you're close this is where your handoff is and actually one thing we recommend is that sales process oftentimes we see that the sales process tends with the clothes ready to celebrate the way and you do the transition actually well we want to start seeing from sales to is that they actually the sales process actually continues to they're they're part of the on work they're part of that hand pay it off and that's a really critical time if that's not what today's about so let's talk a little bit more about that usage that impact stage and the growing stage okay that's for the huge part of your custom your company's values and comfort so what's important here so in this so as in customer success you want to focus on getting your customers to use the product and who are important in usage obviously they need to use it you want them to get impact their business right they're just logging into your product every day going on and using it they could still leave you right the whole point is that maybe being an impact to their business impact would be things like time savings could be an increase in revenue it could be a decrease in revenue loss so those are some generalized impacts that you have in your organization and there's lots of things you can do in customer success to help the efficiency and help scale that right tools like client success comm that helps you monitor the usage of your every organization of your customer so that way you can you can focus on impact and what we really want you to do and the topic of today is to focus on growth and we're going to talk a little bit about what happens when turned it to the way of this but really quickly so I can just finish off the closed loops of where you come in and where you can help drive growth so this customer success if you're in charge of the renewals we are also responsible for identifying opportunities for upsell okay and this is this whole funnel gets closed loop when you identify those opportunities so when you're having a cross sell it goes back to the to the beginning of the funnel so you got cross sell here going back to that awareness age the start of the funnel maybe pass them back off the skills depending on your process you have you have your resell right someone new comes in all of a sudden you have to resell your product that's going to the education part of the funnel and then here you have upsell so let's unless cumbersome sales process but it still sales process it ourselves so here you have a full closed loop from start/finish and back around to really generate that recurring revenue cycle in SAS um okay what happens as I mentioned what happens when you have an issue here when you have an issue around usage and impact you're not growing and where does that issue also come from comes from potentially a turn problem so we're going to get into that now I'm gonna erase this and I'm going to move on while no reason this works let me know if anyone has any other questions that I can answer yeah so how can someone create a feedback loop between their customer success team and developers so that the user feedback contributes to really good UX and UI or even markets it yeah I mean that's that's I love it you're thinking that way I think that's really important I think systems again processes are going to help you get that feedback so whether you have a feedback tool plate if you have an advocacy program where a feedback is part of that and making sure that it gets in the hands of your your product team depending on the size of your of your company I when we were early on that influitive I would often bring a developer and a product person and I'm gonna call every single week I would have a developer on a different customer call specific around if I knew a lot of feedback from becoming their that call it really allowed the you know the development team to get a better sense of what's on the customers lines and it was a little bit of a sneaky thing but I used to do especially on the calls were new clients for asking for features that maybe my product keywords resistant to them often when the developer would be on that call today I have no 11 15 minutes obviously that only works when you're a certain summons when you get bigger that tends to be a bit more complicated definitely bringing them own calls and then creating a system for feedback so if you're getting ad hoc feedback collecting that shooting that over through some communication I love it if you have more of a process around that and you have some sort of legacy platform where you're asking for feedback as part of that advocacy making sure that your product team has access to that and is getting that easily just a Google Doc right collect it real time make sure someone for product is responsible for checking it okay that was a great question I love it so here is your anything else work before I move on you think you're good yeah oh cool okay so here you have yeah this is your amazing bucket of customers so sales is putting your your customers in here you have all of your your customers around here they're going to be onboarding and that's great they're going to continue to to renew that factory customer are very simple my version of your customer lifecycle here in the bucket but what happens obviously if that's not a seamless right if all of a sudden you have a leak in your bucket right what happened to that that's something that we never want and all of a sudden your customers are starting tint your favor and it's your responsibility here's my little teacup it's your responsibility in customer success to catch those customers and to deal with it typically it's your responsibility you need to figure out what's going on and you need to get them back into here it's not always so simple right sometimes the the leak in your bucket continues to grow and grow and grow and it's not just a simple fix so we're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to do what has an organization because I think that having this all on your shoulder customer success that it's not necessarily going to help the problem because the problem is often I'm mentally a larger issue that affects the whole organization let's look about what that can be first things to look at the simplest things to look at when you have leaky customers the first thing you want to do is you want to look at sales so what is going into your for what is going into your business which customers are they selling if your sales team someone who perfect are they selling for cave what you want is them selling for pain not fit and here's why often think about this o we sell to customers that are you know have a hundred employees or less and they you know in their in tech okay well let me tell you the story there's a company that sells elevators and they if they're fit is companies with most multi-story buildings right make sense so you look pull a list of all the companies and you say okay this is our this is a list of companies that we're going to go after all of a sudden someone comes flip it says hey or a two-story baby we'd really like an elevator well that's not really a fit so we wouldn't necessarily sell them but let's explore okay they bought instantly why do they buy well they bought because they had the pain of meeting government funding and in order to get government funding they needed to be fully accessible and in order to be fully accessible they needed a wheelchair in order to get that second floor now that company of two choices it could then redefine what fit meant and all of a sudden start going after a whole bunch of two-story buildings but the problem is that they may not all have that cane and so what they should really be looking for and so they sold a bunch of elevators to two-story buildings what you might see is a bunch of customers leaving because if they weren't solving a big enough pain but all of a sudden shift and yourself seems focused on selling the pain while cane is needing to be accessible that's something that the company needs that needs to fix that knee and solve that pain those are gonna be sticky customers it's just an example of the difference between fit and pain I'm not saying that that's the reason of your church problem but what I'm saying is if you do have a certain shoe you do want to look at the profile of the companies that your sales team is selling to to see if they're selling for fit instead of paint and if that's the case that's a pretty easy fix you go into the sales you go into your sales pipeline and have some discussions with sales if they look here a bunch of customers have sold on fit and they ended up not lasting with us let's talk about how we can get more sales or make one one concept along this I think that's kind of maybe helpful for people if they're if you're wanting to go down that route with pain because if you actually maybe take a box and you define on the box like those paints right what are some of the things that are causing those pains and then how does your solution actually solve those because I think that's a to bring customer success as a culture and an organization that that little simple exercise I just talked about that maybe start with marketing or marketing runs that and sells and customer success and development everyone could be on the same page on what what is it that we're actually solving the problems and that nice solution set with our solution so that you know is very consistent across the lifecycle of a customer from developers not being in silos to sales people selling the right pane like you said and once we've sold to that pain on board even customer success literally driving the solutions to those pains through to upsell cross-sell success in reunion yeah absolutely so take a look at so I wanted to talk about the sales thing first because it can mean there's no real what we want to do is take all the customers so take all the customers that are in this sort of tea cup of Turner customers that we need to look at ok I mean II can't figure out why and so this is very common we look at the reason why our customers leaving us are they going for at understanding the to many companies spend too much time on that so we need to understand why I don't evening for sure but as important if not more important is why are they staying so want to look at the segment of customers were staying which is Palmer and why are they staying and where you're going to get is impact you're gonna start to understand the impact that your company your solution has on your customers business what happened this customers are leaving is because you're not giving them a nothing back to their business so it's an important understanding why and through that understanding of why you a sense of okay our people being sold on unfit totally one one simple explanation so here's sort of your sales with your sales funnel the next reason could be and it's a relatively easy fixes well I liked to go first with what's the most simple thing to adjust and then we can talk about a more fundamental challenge the second thing is on board difficult I'm on run and we could throw this out maybe at that can we get polls work I think I can let's let me see if I can pull it up okay what is the ultimate time to value in our morning how many days let's throw it up with 30 60 90 120 can't don't worry about it I just threw this last minute yeah maybe let's just have them maybe chat in the the zoom webinar chat what they think we got 37 30 30 60 30 30 it seems like most most people are 30 or 60 yeah so totally 30 is the ideal time to value you want 30 days so I'm obviously if your product maybe its premium or something needs to be shorter but 30 days is typical time so it's like if this was a poll I would say majority is 30 then you have a chunk of 60 and then even 90 for a few people I'm not seems very very very high price point really that's gonna be risky right so you want to get to 30 days time to value as best as possible again there's going to be a little bit of a change but think about it if you're if your contracts only 12 months and you really need that renewal if you're waiting 30 90 days till first value you don't have all its fastest first value you don't have a lot of time to get to real impact okay so that's something you could look at that's also pretty easy fix well here for onboarding process let's see is this you know are we it's time to value too long and is that contributing to customers not really really potentially here because they didn't see Bobby fast enough let me just be clear when I say these are easy fix they're not easy they're simple they're they're just less complicated than the next the next thing you need to look at so but these are just sort of the let's just rule these out and make sure that these aren't the issues because you don't want to be giving is going back to product and say any product to make all these changes when really it's sort of the funnel the funnel pieces that need to be tweaked okay so you've solved you've ruled out sales is doing a perfect job they're only selling to customers who have the payment lease all's onboarding again doing a bang-up job they're getting time to value within a reasonable time frame okay what we've realized is that the reason customers stay impact that you have in their business is is one thing and the reason they're leaving is because these customers aren't getting that impact well if it's not because of sales and it's not because of onboarding and your product isn't delivering what it needs to deliver in order for your customers to get that impact they were they have in the paint they have became that they need to solve that your product should be solvent they are going through the onboarding process but in execution it's just not delivering so what I want you to look at at this point is at this point this is what you collect all this feedback and use a product you need to be responsible for this and this is where we get a little controversial because what I'm saying here is when you have systematic term power in your organization that is fundamentally a product own issue same products product owns churn Jamie we look at companies when churn if you're having a reasonable churn rate every from every SAS organization has some little shirt and some level of predictable turn and some level of turn that you can identify maybe it was a person that impacted like there's trends that you're going to get us all but if it's systemic across the organization your borders that would start carrying out this and to more than just hey what your turn is on track if you're talking about churn as a systemic issue at the board level product needs to be driving that conversation because it is a product issue customer success can only do so much to solve churn when it because of product if product is it driving the right impact your customers they need to figure out what that is and so one question I have for you so then how does how does product not just always become the scapegoat like you know and then I think if you've been in a customer success role or you've been at struggle the churn issue how do you literally get product to understand the right use cases to develop the solution that actually drives you back these are some really very question I mean no one give me a scapegoat in this situation because you have to look at you have to look at the reason people are staying always right you need to understand the profile of your customers in order to understand what went wrong with customers for leaving okay so we've looked at sales we've looked at onboarding we've looked at you know you could even look at you know individual CS people right if there's trends right if one person's book of business is leaving at an exponential rate more than other people well then those are those are those systems but if you've ruled out all these other issues well its product this this gap this leaky bucket that's for your product comes in and so your products job is to deliver the desired impact to your customers and if it's not doing that then you do not have probably heard of it you do not have a solution that can scale and they ask their job so I'm not looking for product to be asking well what I am looking for is product seek ownership of a systematic sure problem what it is the product so that's why you do that sort of forward-looking of why they're staying a backwards looking at why they've left and rule I like a bunch of the reasons and figure out ok its desired impact here now I do think I'm not trying to get customer I don't have a bunch of product people like and think you damn right door saying what did you just do see yes they can't just hand off and say well that's some of the issue yes you have a role your role is to help bridge that gap between their product challenge and your customers and what the beautiful thing about customer success and I always say customers great customer success teams can buy with two years if your product you've sort of released your products in the market and it doesn't quite have product market fit your customer success team can do manual things they can handhold your clients more than you potentially want to do so process on your CSM team can help bridge that gap they can buy you a few years but at some point and I say it's over two years of a client lifecycle at some point your clients are going to start leaving no matter how great your customer success teams the difference is how they do that right so tell your story you have the customer you know the customers who where your customer success team isn't a buicks they just give their turn nervous right but when your customer success team they're doing an amazing job they actually call there's the end standard they say look I'm really really sorry you've tried all these things I just can't figure out a way to make it work that's how you know your CSM team is doing a great job and it's just that fundamental issue I'm but you can't fail your organization if you're relying on your customer success team to fix your turn problem if you want to because customer success if you remember this whole funnel thing um you know you got your funnel over here you need your customer success team to be focusing on growing that's how you get that huge revenues for organization but a pause there for a minute how are you work so we're doing good I think one person maybe just a step back when you what do you when you consider time to value what are some characteristics of the time to value you're describing is it ROI is it like you could actually explain it for every dollar you spend in our system it looks like I've helped you get $2 savings or or is it more a beneficial things like putting all your data in one place but that's one question I saw because every company is different right so if I knew the business we could dig into it a little bit more but whatever it did is is you want your power user your champion after 30 to 45 days to be able to go to their executive team and say here's here's why we bought this phonic here's a win a customer success seat you want to be able to go and send an email or um you know some sort of chart to show here's something you got for buying this product and here are some initial results I think saying here's the full ROI of your product after 30 days is a little aggressive first guy first value is just one tangible thing that your that your champion or you can go to the executive team of your clients say here's a win right here's something about you you can't it starts with value and then ask over the cycle of the year you start to get to real and you start to get see that's when you start to get to the real savings or you know revenue opportunities yeah I think that's a great first point as people think about that 30-60-90 how do i drive that first value where they can go back and said hey we saw that first challenge of why we bought this and now I'm moving forward so thank you for asking that there's been tons of questions along the side but I'll let you keep on going because I know people wanna kind of race through this model a little bit and we can definitely get into a little bit but I want to hear some questions I wonder what people have on their minds this is a one from you know this is a scenario that Daniel oxidizes our product will absolutely solve the pain if it's probably used to have impact the customer must use the product to create a business specific model we deliver in product AIDS for models building and these the issue as customers are impatient some will skip over in product AIDS and don't read the help so how do I motivate customers to spend time to learn and build in an effective model learning so you use a product like email everyone needs email right or you could think about any product if it's not simple to use you can't force people to change their behaviors you can encourage them but the great you know the reason we have and the explosion of designers and UX and UI rules and these organizations is to make the onboarding and especially as your product is so simple that people are supposed to be on board emselves it has to be just that it needs to be clear enough that people can use it themselves people are totally impatient but if you look at the popular games that turned off especially when when thinking of it was first coming out and you started the first games came to fruition that became really really popular they were simple to use and they didn't force people to click Next exercise they were embedded and the actions of your product and so yeah this is our product issue if people are fast forwarding me watch me at least watch food well it's because they're not embedded in their natural behaviors or people don't want to spend time doing so again look at throw that back to product get him looking at how people are onboarding and change that onboarding process and intuitively in the product so that way people don't don't skip over the imperative hearts to getting and successful nice and thank you for answering that another question you feel like time to value should be segmented by account types some people have across there they're selling into mid marketed Enterprise would there be different definitions and those teams could there be sounds there value and I think you know I don't I spend too much time on this because you have to look at a few things if it is in annual renewal then time to buy you this critical you literally have a ticking clock of 12 months before the customers write it and it's not even 12 months you've been taking half of nine months really since from first sign for the customer to get enough value to make that decision to renew because we don't want was your csto scrambling at the last minute to create value I used to do something with my camp management teams we at some point I'd imploded we split customer success and accountability that first time period every I find every company goes through those because it ll what to and I see tons of clients doing this you're all together and then you slip and you come back together and then you change your mind controls totally natural as your company starts to scale so at this point we had to split up RCS items and our care management team and one thing that we did as account managers I haven't college you every account at the six month mark and the conversation was very simple are you planning on renewing and if yes great what would make follow up with a question what would make you know this is slam-dunk for you what would what would I mean at the end of the year for this to be one of the best things you've ever purchased and what would make it for what would what would have to happen in order for you to want to introduce us to other areas of your organization so if they're getting value and they plan to renew at six months this is your opportunity to your self to talk it over but also Jebsen valuable through our organization is when they say it out because if they say no at six months you have six months to win back their business as opposed to finding out at renewal so if you do have that tarnish you this is a really good way to combat that and I love as a proactive way to start laying foundation for upsell and cross-sell again I really want to get into the foundation that really the meat of today's topic which is the church you kiss it's a pretty radical you know I've been on I've been in more meetings and CS teams are the ones you know the CS leader is the one who's coming up and talking about what we're doing about church and if you look at that and it's like okay we've created his new process we're looking at this that's not addressing the fundamental issue I can find the mental issue of why people are turning if you have a turn issue in your organization it's because their customers are not getting enough impact and when that happens product needs to look at what about the product isn't delivering on its promise and a more important reason of why I want this shift to happen why does she just don't heart attack and I want it so important for this happen is because we just at the beginning of this webinar we talked about the impact that CS teams have on business and you own and you're responsible for 75 all the way up to 90 and 90 to 93 percent of revenue for your organization and if you're spending your time looking backwards and saving customers time and time and time again you aren't growing the business in the most efficient way that closed loop cycle you're not spending your time on that and that's how fast companies today are going with there are so many products out there right I think we saw like the latest images in marketing technology right I think there's like 4,000 or 5,000 in our tech tools out there there's only so many companies this helps you and so much budget to sell against your big in competition that their most of the time is just competing for budget and so that's why when you're already in there you're already in as a vendor and I'll tell you Kermit teams and the ever so popular and growing role of heroes you know they're spending their time on they are looking at the tech stocks they are looking at me 29 to 80 SAS products that your organization is using and they're looking at consolidate back and how many of your potential customers are saying you know what I can't even look at yours to talk to yourself see how often do they hear we might get tons of value from your product but we can't buy anything right now until we figure out what we can get rid of so your competition is often just other random facts products so if you're in an organization not only should you be figuring out how to scale you should be figuring out how to grow and that is the companies who really focus and train their CS teams and create processes for their CS teams to do that rope that you identify that growth and to create that closed-loop whether it's passing back to sales or to camp management team or doing it on their own that is how we're going to be successful today I think that's taking I think that's an intersection interesting concept because I would say most of customer success is focused on the red reports and the red and the red and you know these are the reasons and and I love how you've articulated two things what is the impact and how does that impact help an account grow just imagine a full list of things that we were actually bringing into meetings that say hey here's how we drive impact here's how we drive growth of our clients versus here how we save everybody it's a it's that what percentage of people do you think they're out there are just focusing on this why they're leaving and how many people that when you meet with them what percentage do you think through that red report and I would say you know at the risk of you sponsoring this webinar this is a challenge with tools like clients if that's what you offer and I think when your customers use these tools they need to use it in a very specific way I don't want your customers to use it as a crutch and say okay we have this little place we're good what these two are used for is to help their organization scale on the things that your team shouldn't even be thinking about your customer success team should not have to go anywhere to look at how many people are using the product or these like uses metrics that are easily trackable that is something that your CS team should say okay that is that is being covered I don't need to worry about that and then they can look towards growth but what I do see is a lot of CS leaders say you know what we've implemented a tool and now we're good right the tool is a way for you to say okay I'm done with this and now I'm going to figure out to tackle the group's challenge because no one's tackling that today software doesn't address this right now for composer and anything else have any that that's pressing that people want to hear about um no I think yeah the people are there they're doing good that I think there's their collaborate with themselves listening to you as you bring these questions all put in the chat and I'll make sure I get it to Julie thanks I think that I think is important analogy and a lot of winning but is on methodologies are science fact right we looked at a lot of the cognitive function how people work how buyers buy I also want you to think about your CSR donation and I'm going to use a tennis analogy because I love tennis and it's just what I'm coming up with right now so in tennis do you ever notice that um you know you have an amazing you know an amazing tennis player and sometimes they just can't get their serving but you can't do it that's how you practice they've done amazing they can you know the next game the next day they'll be acing anything is when you serve and the person can't even return such an amazing search often that in sports and I like tennis because it's a single-player game too in sports when you start to fail you get into this psychological loop of and when CS teams are focused on the reasons company's customers are leaving you they also get into that psychological loop or failure and their team is going to get worn down fast and you need to be able to focus on the Wizards to keep the energy up to keep your attention of your team up so that's what's fun right you don't become an athlete because you're losing every game and like that's not what's gonna bit you you become an athlete because you've experienced what it's like to to win a little bit and that keeps you going and keeps you going through the tough times you need to be focusing on that wins I think looking forward and looking at a group of customers of why they stay is more important than just looking at the reason why they're leaving again this is this is who you want your team your product team you're building for - right you want to make sure that you're focusing on you know sometimes customers buy you for an impact that your product doesn't even solve for and if you miss that half of the equation and you're just saying oh well these customers left because they wanted this impact maybe that's not even important maybe that's not even what you do so you don't want to be better than other direction and another I want to share one more sports analogy so relevant to customer success and it's just um in I played a lot of baseball growing up and one of the practices you do in baseball is you and really any sport you play is the concept of swinging through or running past first base and why do you do this why don't you run past the babes at first why do you not stop on contact because the ball won't go anywhere where you need it to go and so I really like the customer success teams they stop on contact what's contact our customer success team contacts renewal contact is usage you are not going to take your company where you need it to go you need to swing through you have to follow through or run past that baseline in order to get to growth I've seen this time and time again the companies that have a focus on I been in this role myself or my teammates I've told the sales team key 3 coming up on a year sales miss their number a camp management made up for it and cross-sell and upsell and you know what that's even more valuable sometimes than getting new logos because it's showing that okay well you have available that for whatever reason bringing logos in the door the customers you have get such immense value and drive such impact of the organization they're willing to double their triple and quadruple their on their investment in your organization back signals that's seen those huge value to investors and to growth potential nice yeah I think that's a huge point so how much of impact when you think about this is helping people change their behaviors clients what what excuse me what do you think people change their behavior clients using a tool like let's say that impact requires it is something new and the organic organization has previously been doing it this way and to get the new results they're going to use the solution they've purchased plus they need to change a little bit of their behavior to achieve the impact is there anything that helps them achieve yeah what so you have to think about like many more loops right because we're really really busy and we're not gonna spend the things in our time in our day if you're not getting those rewards and so if you look at this walk myself off the screen here if you you know if someone you're asked that I'm going to change their behavior um so you're asking them to do something different than they normally do there needs to be something that comes back that makes that you know makes a range a bit about it right so they're in first to do it again but if it's gonna be too long of a path to get there guess what they just saw an email they're they're done right they just got a customer call they just got a flat vilification they're right we're done so attention spans are down so if you need to change behavior it has to be it has to be well ass have a sort of reward leaps in it but also stick is so critical to the business right and so I look at creating processes and yeah I think especially an early days of your organization um a lot of this could be handled with a little bit of muscle right people power is huge for figuring out process and so you know back to an earlier question around what processes and what are you going to do in order to get this back to product there's information about product feedback there's the one things of analysis that you've done hopefully with product to say what impact our customers having that make that stake one of the wouldn't you want blocks what are the categories of reasons why our customers are leaving and then also before you go back and you know do a major fix in your organization is there something that your CS team can do in the process that can test a new right is there something that your CS team can do you know let's say with a grouping of customers to figure out what the right answer is totally but again I'm not saying a specific product and say all right he asks no longer cares about sure you care when you're going about board meeting and that you're responsible for presenting on something what product present on what they're doing about churn okay we're working with CS to do this isn't this we're building a business in this and we're doing some analysis on these groups of customers that's a good answer for products have and then CS leaders when you walk into the board meeting you're going to talk about here's what we're doing to grow our existing customers here's our projections for how much revenue we're gonna bring it to our organizations I'm really frustrated and seeing CS leaders not have enough tie into revenue and organizations and they really own are responsible for so much of that revenue and you're passing off you're passing off that power to other people in your organization for no reason they don't have that line of sight like they don't have the relationship oh yeah though that that's what I think I mean that's the power of owning than the number of post cells and the drives growth numbers you know bill is it to land in an account and expand through more usage or consumption or however your your model your your product is is billed is I think II to focus on that growth and and then kind of helping product focus on why why they're not getting to impact how do people start there how do you what would you suggest is a good way to get started I mean I would imagine most on the webinar have a list of things that are the reasons they're churning what would you suggest someone would do to get first understanding of impacts of why they stay then next what would be your top three things you have someone do to focus on growth okay so to answer your first question I'm going to Emma - two - two things you should know the impact your customers are getting because and this is what you should be talking about and all of your meetings with your customers so when you're doing your impact review your check-ins when you're doing your executive business reviews or your six-month check-ins whatever you call them QPR's whatever you impact it's critical and there's a framework that we have it with anybody I know way to ask some questions to uncover impact but you should be talking about impact your CES team should be having a conversation about impact say if not every and 90% of your calls with your customers so knowing what impact your customers are getting should be any CSM should know this customer is getting this this customer is getting that shipping list is it happening to my serger well actually I'm sure it's not happening but what many customer success teams to do in order to get to that next level so categorize that right if you're not capturing the impact in your product eyes sit down in the room and say let's run through the customer list and let's find out this customer what's the impact and run through it and get those tracks can then do the same thing they're looking at water customers are leaving tends to be a little bit hard because not only do you want to know why customers will be in B do you want them with them you want to find pacified friends otherwise the data is useless and that's manual you can use a little bit of information I do like the idea of using if you have a tool like your tool in place you can use that to categorize okay show me all customers that had a you know whatever you're categorizing is music whether it's logins or whether it's you know whatever field are finally all the ones who have and less than a certain percentage and look at those customers and find trends within those customers faces right did they on board at a certain time they have a certain person is are they in a certain field why do they buy look at those factors to really find there those trends and capture those I'm one of the top three things to focus on growth I think that was your next question so now they have advice everyone has this nice list of why people stay with their customer the product is now working on turn all the team we're providing some insights for customer success into that product owns that and then board perspective customer success like you said owns this impact and but but what should I do to grow this I mean what if but if my product doesn't have upsell potential or cross-sell like what are your thoughts on some things I can do to grow accounts or to grow okay move on well that's good gonna happen so we already know that customers grow from it or you can't grow for me do you want to address one quick thing on it there's two forms of it there's emotional impact and there's rationally we didn't I was just doing that training this morning with that with and you know we talked about a simple analogy of a ten-year-old car you have a ten-year-old car it's rusty and old whatever no reason is you're in the market for a new car right so we looked at all the potential reasons why the impact that this car has idea why you would be buying the car okay well one reason could be it's old and it costs a lot of money in your boat it's broken down and your boats have to sink a ton of money into it well that's huge impact to you rationally because it's gonna cost a lot of money and so you need to buy a new car another reason could be okay you have just grown your family and you've grown out of your car and you need to go on a road trip and your current car doesn't have enough seats to fit everyone in your family q that's huge impact that's a very rational impact you need to buy your car okay another reason could be I get in my car and it's freezing outside and I really want the hand warmers the steering wheels for people who live in warm climates you have no idea 115 degrees Celsius today which I don't even know what that is apparently it's flippin cold and so when you get in your car that sits in your driveway this steering wheel heater is like the best thing in the entire world I'm that's not so rash I'm it's a little bit irrational but you're not gonna buy a car because I have a steering wheel a heater or not you're not gonna buy a new car certainly it's emotional I want to sit the car and I want my hands to burn I could wear gloves totally but I want my hands to be warm that's an emotional impact it makes me feel good driving with my hands are nice and toasty you know I want just to look cooler I don't love the fact that I Drive a minivan it doesn't really meet my first on that but I've seen myself in like you know a cool 4x4 with the roof overhead so that's an emotional impact if I ever heard of one that finally occurred if it's all my kids and my dog and all that stuff and lets me drive a car that fits my persona so giving you those examples of emotional impact in rational impact because in order to focus on ropes you need to both understand understand both of those elements for your customers why are they buying for a business impact perspective why are they buying and why are they staying with you I'm are they growing from what emotional impact those things can be things like because their job is on the line they want a promotion and using your product helps them show off how great a job they're doing and so they want to be able to get that promotion um you help them save time in their faces that way they can get home for dinner with their family and these things are emotional these are the reasons your customers stay and these are the reasons why your customers are going to grow now you talked about what if your product has no upside potential cool ok well I actually will say there's always up some potential and maybe it's not you're not there yet but as an organization if you in a success organization in particular if you're not thinking about any products and you can add-on and you should start thinking about that and see us plays a huge role in that right so um help you look at what when you're talking a product and this is actually a real story where I was running CS and product was releasing you know this new they had in beta an era boat to release it to all our customers I had looked at the product I said it's just so much impact to customers around this particular use case if we roll in the into our existing platform and customers are getting it for free hey there know maybe or they're not going to use it and they're not gonna actually see it as having such value and impacts their business as it could but also we're missing a huge opportunity here and product came back and said well as it is we can't really justify selling it yeah but we talked a bunch of customers for using it we said what would make you pay for this and we talked about some additional features and functionality that they could build in pretty simply into that one product I went out on that would actually make it not just a roll up car but an atom and it was so quickly that they were able to run it into the next release cycle and within a month we've got it at rolled out including a product marketing campaign and were able to sell it to customers for the last quarter of the year nice it was huge and so that those types of things are how your CS seems to be thinking or how to drive more revenue for organization well maybe two minutes so you'll have to hear a flash round of why it you know there's make next steps of why they grow and then we'll well thank you for being on you create processes of how to grow I think the biggest issue I'll say today when I stand in front CS teams they have not been trained on how to sell and they don't want to sell because they feel like sales I am dirty word right you go to CS people and say what would I tell you that sales is part of your job half of them are going to say no way well Tony that's because they don't understand what sales is all about and what sales is all about is exactly what customer success test uncovering impact and helping your customers grow customers expect to spend more money with you especially in SAS they get it and they're happy to do it when they are giving them the right impact until it strains yes teams how to speak with customers to do that in a way that is you know CSEE that makes customers feel good ends yes James children yeah I think that's a you know selling on value right versus selling on features and emotional and rational impacts well I appreciate the time you've spent today Julie it's been phenomenal the questions have been coming you've answered a lot there's probably six more of these sessions we could do together a lot of the questions in there like who should really only renewal how do we get us yes to sell but I appreciate what you've talked about today from you know helping sells if you're having a churn issue focus on the pain may be focusing on more teens too if you feel like you've got a churn issue and then making sure it's very clear for your organization what the like you said the rational and the emotional impact is and have this you know focus on growth it's been phenomenal we're lucky to have you as part of the customer success community I love this community that's growing it's kind of like the early days of marketing automation in some way yes starting the member first community we have a rolled out is super exciting and it is definitely exciting it's great to be part of it thank you so much for having me thank you for everyone you were attended your great questions keep it coming and thanks to Hilary Jeff happy health yeah so Julie is on LinkedIn you can find her there you can look at my design and we're appreciative of your time today for your expertise so thanks for everyone who join from all over the world the customer success community is together marching together to drive impact and growth and I appreciate that so that's the message relief today thanks for joining us from silken slopes and Toronto Canada where I guess it's -14 someone converted that so stay warm Julie and we'll see you later see you customer success people