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this really all fits in one because people don't move in this kind of straightforward path so they jump around which is why like when you're analyzing and you're trying to understand these funnels um what you're really trying to understand is just what is the path that somebody is taking to get to that end outcome are some of these pieces or some of these steps a waste of time like did we create these emails and are they not clicking on these emails like does this help or does it not help move somebody through through this kind of whole journey in this funnel so I don't know if I actually answered your question I don't even remember what the question was but yeah yeah you did I think you Illustrated once you can see the paths it becomes really obvious right what's not working exactly wait a minute 80 of our visitors from our ads are getting here but they're not getting to the next option or either of the next options so like this thing has to be broken let's go fix this piece and we know where to focus our efforts but I think you just nicely Illustrated why people use both high level and funnel licks together right in high level you can build pipelines but they are very linear and so a lot of times people might be in multiple pipelines because like you said in the real world people take you know a variety of paths to go to make their way towards the goal and for analytics you can kind of see it all at once in in a bird's eye view type of thing [Music] hi everyone and welcome to another episode of the high level Spotlight sessions where we showcase awesome marketers doing awesome marketing today I'm excited to be joined by Mikhail Dia he's the founder and CEO of funnelytics a visual customer Journey mapping and Analytics tool Mikhail thanks so much for coming on what's up Chase how are you good I'm excited to have you I think a lot of our community have probably heard of funnel lyrics before if they haven't uh used it already so pretty popular in the community I would say I'd love to to kick it off with the back story how did you get into building such a laser focused piece of software do you come from the agency world I do actually I do come from the agency world uh you know a little bit of the back story I I kind of became obsessed with just digital marketing as a whole in early maybe like early 2010 late 2009 I used to run a a t-shirt company um I say company but really we just hustled t-shirts me and and a few friends we printed college guys exactly that's basically what it is right we were it was me and a couple buddies during college Years and uh we had these t-shirts and um I I've shared this story a couple of times but basically uh our friends and family bought all of our t-shirts and like we sold out really really quickly for our first batch and and here we are thinking man this business is easy this is so simple why are people fretting about like making money and all that stuff so we ordered boxes and boxes like I mean Stacks all the way up to the ceiling of t-shirts and um our friends and family didn't want any more t-shirts they already bought t-shirts so they supported us so now we're sitting there like how the hell do we sell to strangers how do we how do we get rid of these um and it kind of led me down a little bit of a rabbit hole of like how do you build an online website how do you sell online how do you kind of make that happen and early this is about 2008 2009 somewhere around there um and back then Google wasn't as stringent with like what happens when you search how to sell online so I would I went down these rabbit holes of like making money online making ten thousand dollars from the beach um doing all sorts of stuff so that's basically the thing that at the time I was an engineer so I was like I I really didn't like my job so it's like could I make ten thousand dollars a month from a Beach compared to going and being an engineer sounds pretty sweet to me um and I learned about like SEO I learned about pay-per-click advertising I learned about affiliate marketing I learned about eventually went down the the uh came across a guy named Russell Brunson which everybody knows in the click funnels world uh and and started learning about funnels and and started learning and understanding all these little pieces of the art I guess and the science behind turning a stranger into a customer uh for for your your product or your service and I eventually uh ended up in London in the UK I started a Mandarin language school which is a whole other story uh and I started applying a lot of these principles um I don't speak Mandarin by the way I saw the face you just made I don't speak Mandarin I've never been to China but I did start a Mandarin language school but I started applying a lot of these principles um around kind of digital marketing to to that and it started growing and it started working we were able to figure out how to how to advertise to the Right audience how to bring them and turn them into leads how to nurture and how to ascend them and get them into sales conversations and then sell them into into our our services uh and I became pretty good at it so I decided to run an agency and start an agency where I would help businesses with this I realized that a lot of people don't think about digital marketing in a Journey they think about digital marketing in tactics SEO social media pay-per-click advertising landing pages they they think about these pieces but they don't think of it as a holistic journey of how do you again take this stranger who's never heard of you turn them into a customer and this is what I would offer for my clients we would map out their funnels we would um show them exactly what we would build for them the pages the emails the traffic sources Etc uh and then we would go and and launch these funnels we'd start driving traffic and we'd look at data and we'd start looking at where is it working where is it not what do we need to kind of look at and start thinking about and the interesting thing that I I did with all of my clients was nobody understood what I was talking about when I would say like funnels or I would say we're going to build these landing pages and people are going to give you their email and we're going to build an email list and send them emails and get them to a webinar or whatever it was in terms of the actual strategy but then what I decided to do is I would take these little icons and I would put them on a on a PowerPoint presentation I went on Fiverr and I got a bunch of little icons that one represented a page one representative Facebook and one represented an email and I started putting these on on um on a PowerPoint presentation I would say to my client this is what I'm gonna do for you you see this goal right here of getting somebody to pull out their credit card and purchase well these are the steps that we're going to push people through in order to make that happen that's when they were like I get it okay here's some money right so we basically did this um as as our agency but then when it came to analyzing the data when it came to seeing what's working what's not you'd log into Google analytics you'd log into your CRM you'd log into all these different platforms that through charts and graphs and spreadsheets at you and you're like like how do I dissect this how do I actually understand what's working versus what's not wouldn't it be really cool if I could just overlay all of my data on that same map and see conversions and see how many people move from this step to this step and and just see where the bottlenecks are that was the idea for phonalytics basically became the the thought process wouldn't it be cool what year was that this was in the idea came to me and I started thinking about it in 2016 I think around 2016 uh I started my agency in 2015 started thinking about the idea of funnel lyrics in 2016. I hired a uh developer to start like tinkering with it very slowly while I was running my agency at the beginning of uh 2017. and I launched the first kind of prototype uh in 2018. wow cool I'd love to unpack that a little bit because I think it's so interesting to me how many marketers still to this day haven't kind of really wrapped their head around the importance of a funnel um even the word itself I'd be curious if I asked you how what's the difference between a funnel and a website what would be your response um I I like to Define it as a funnel is a series of steps that you take somebody through to get them to the core goal that you're trying to get them to so whether that's them putting in their name and email on a uh on a form or that's them purchasing something on your site it's the deliberate series of steps that you've structured to get somebody from point A to point B a website is a Showcase of um what it is that you can do what it is that you offer that they're allowed to kind of go at their own pace so I kind of like to look at it as in like the real world uh a regular clothing store versus a um car dealership so typically what happens in a car dealership is you step into the car dealership there's a few different things in front of you but then the sales rep will come they'll start understanding what it is that you want and they'll start guiding you towards the car that will be the best fit for you then once they get you to sit and experience it and all that stuff they move you into their sales office and once they have that conversation and you kind of haggle eventually you either agree or a lot of credit reports yeah exactly they'll do the credit report you don't buy there so they'll do some follow-ups and eventually leads you to the sale but that sequence is very very deliberate it's architected to get you to that sale when you think of walking into a clothing store nobody's greeting you you basically say here you go here's everything that we offer you figure out what it is that you want and come to the checkout and buy it if you're interested right um yours the the clothing store is your website the car dealership experience or at least a good car dealership experience is is a funnel in a sense so I like that that's how I like to think about it in high level we have we we started with the funnel Builder and then people were so confused about like can I build websites and we're like well yeah it's the same thing essentially so we just kind of like renamed it and now there's funnel Builder and website builder they essentially build the same thing but that's exactly how I described when someone asked is a funnel is a website that's made to the pages are made to be gone through sequentially right exactly and like you said a website is more like browse it you're you know at your leisure go wherever you want find your own way around um but I think when we when we look at a marketer's goal in general I feel like for years we as agencies or Consultants we're kind of just like yeah I've got this stable of services that I can provide they're all beneficial uh which ones would you like and you know you might pick SEO and I need a website or ads and whatever um but then we kind of all realized well wait like we can there is there is a funnel to be created here right like let's get an offer we'll run an ad people will claim it we'll nurture them into a booking or a survey or something and then we'll try to get them to buy and and I think most marketers understand that right like let's build a path to conversion for you yeah but I'm I'm still surprised at how many marketers haven't grasped the power of flipping that path up vertically and being able to see the drop off at each step yeah I mean you know and and describe for us the power of having a visual funnel all that's that's set up correctly and functioning well here's the thing right um the the when I think of funnels um you know what you're kind of talking about that that traditional like it actually looks like a funnel you know like a top middle bottom type of uh funnel or you know tofu mofu bofu and stuff like that um I think the main thing that is a little bit confusing with that is because it's one visual representation your brain instantly starts assuming that there's only one path people take but that's not really what happens what what really happens is there's multiple ads that feed the top of that funnel and if you're lucky and you've been able to architect your structure where literally the top of the funnel is one opt-in page before they move on to the next one which is one webinar that you're hosting and then next one is one order form and then they buy then it becomes this linear thing but for most businesses they have multiple ads coming they have maybe two made three different lead magnets that they've created maybe they have a website and there's content generated over on that website and there's multiple ways that people can opt in and once they get to the next stage now they're sending people to a webinar or they're making buy them buy this one this next thing and once they bought that then there's an Ascension or whatever it may be there's email sequences that come they didn't really buy so we've got to set up retargeting ads and and then you start to realize that each of these phases each of these steps in this kind of funnel there's actually multiple touch points there's Pages there's traffic sources there's actions that people can take maybe the watch a video maybe they don't watch the video or do they click on this button do they not click on this button do they fill out this form do they not fill out this form and when you start architecting or or visualizing each of these individual steps that's where people start getting confused with the idea of a funnel because really these let's say 10 potential steps so all of these pieces of content this webinar registration page these retargeting ads all fall in that top bucket and then next phase is there's the webinar itself there's all the follow-up emails there's all the second set of retargeting ads there's all the other content that you have for sales and and follow-up in the pages that falls under that second step and it's hard to group them it's hard to basically say this really all fits in one because people don't move in this kind of straightforward path so they jump around which is why like when you're analyzing and you're trying to understand these funnels um what you're really trying to understand is just what is the path that somebody is taking to get to that end outcome are some of these pieces or some of these steps a waste of time like did we create these emails and are they not clicking on these emails like does this help or does it not help move somebody through through this kind of whole journey in this funnel so I don't know if I actually answered your question I don't remember what the question was but yeah yeah you did I think you Illustrated once you can see the paths it becomes really obvious right what's not working exactly wait a minute 80 of our visitors from our ads are getting here but they're not getting to the next option or either of the next options so like this thing has to be broken let's go fix this piece and we know where to focus our efforts but I think you just nicely Illustrated why people use both high level and funnel licks together right in high level you can build pipelines but they are very linear and so a lot of times people might be in multiple pipelines because like you said in the real world people take you know a variety of paths to go to make their way towards the goal and funnel lytics you can kind of see it all at once in in a bird's eye view type of thing um but I think what what's most important for marketers to understand is and again it's always shocking to me how many people aren't utilizing pipelines or a tool like funnelytics because if you can't see it from a quick glance then you don't really know where to focus energy right like if you're just looking at are we meeting the end goal or not and you're not let's say how would you know where to go start optimizing right like how would you know what to fix if you can't see it yeah and I find that a lot of marketers um it's it's very easy to get caught up in the whole world of row as and return on ad spend but but the reality is um that tells you that this one ad ributed to some Revenue but what happened in between the time that this person clicked on this ad and eventually went and purchased what was the path that they took in order to get to that end purchase also are they all created equal does that mean that um if you use you know uh I I really really we can go down a rabbit hole when it comes to attribution models and all that stuff if you if you want to go there but um what you really start to ask yourself is okay if this ad is converting let's say I I'm I spend a dollar uh to get somebody to click on this ad and I'm able to make three dollars back okay great I got three to one return on my ad spend but that certainly doesn't mean you can now spend ten thousand dollars and get thirty thousand dollars or spend a hundred thousand dollars and make three hundred thousand dollars it doesn't work that way it there's always a lot of diminishing returns at some stage when you start to scale ads so what you need to understand is when somebody does click on that ad what do they do next and what do they do next and is it all linear does every everyone do the exact same thing I can guarantee you that 99.9 of them do not do the exact same thing somebody May click on that ad go to your site delete the like uh URL and just go to your home page and then somebody May then go on Google and Google you to see what comes up when they put in your email then they land on another blog post from you or they go on a review site and then that sends them back to your website and then they go and register for your webinar and then they buy even though your ad tried to get them to register to the webinar right away right and if you don't understand that if you don't realize that that is actually the Journey that most of these people are taking um you're just sitting there and saying cool let's just throw more money at this one ad and hope that it works and that's why a lot of people cap out when they they start spending money on ads it doesn't scale yeah that's super interesting and and that's kind of like for me one of the funnest Parts about funnel marketing is when you find those nuggets of information you're like whoa ninety percent of the people that end up hitting this review page go to the next step or whatever we need to put more focus on this review page in our funnel like let's shift this up or put it in the ad or you know what I mean like you can find these insights once you can see the journey I'm fascinated though how much of a technical challenge was this to figure out for funnel lyrics because I mean tracking people especially now posts the iOS 14 update right when you're talking about oh they hit they left you know stripped parameters out of the URL because they're going over here and then they're coming back like it's a nightmare to try to to track all of that yeah it is uh it is a nightmare it is really really difficult to uh ensure that that continuity is there we try to do a few different things within the platform so we've got basically Three core components to our our core platform so we've got our base tracking script that when somebody hits your site will pull all of the different parameters and uh we'll we'll basically assign an ID to that person user ABC XYZ they're added into what we call our profile API so basically think of it like a CRM although we can't we don't send messages or anything like that but think of them as use or ABC XYZ is now added to this profile API at some stage they will become a lead and put in their name and email so now user ABC XYZ becomes chase at gohighlevel.com and based on that we've got uh what we call an event processor where if let's say an event happens in high level and Chase has moved from a deal stage eight to deal Stage B well we can now push that back into funnelytics and show you that chase went to that stage so it's a continuous battle to figure out how do you keep these sessions intact how do you make sure that you know Chase who was user ABC XYZ who then hops onto his iPhone and and clicks is no longer you know user one two three five six seven uh and they're actually the same same person and and it's about figuring out where are these identifiers and kind of stitching that uh together that's kind of what we focus on and what we try to do uh across the entire customer Journey is it 100 accurate um it can't be right for for but when when you do get those the lead into your pipeline and you have that name and email now it becomes a lot more accurate because we we know who they are and we can identify them based on the events that they do uh but like it is a continuous challenge to because privacy policies are continuously changing uh they are getting harder to kind of uh navigate but as we continue to build more Integrations be able to kind of keep building more robust profiles find different identifiers that's that's how we solve it at phonetics I'm assuming high level makes it easier for you right because because we can web hook out at any off of any action and workflows I'm assuming we can web hook that data to funnelytics and you can kind of grab it and be like oh cool thanks for you know filling in that missing puzzle piece for us exactly so whenever something happens on on a go high level page or a pipeline or whatever it is you send an SMS we can you know we use our web hook and okay cool like now we know that this occurred with Chase even though it occurred offline right you didn't actually do anything it was the sales person who moved you from stage 8 to Stage B but now that event has occurred within your journey of your profile and now I can take that and put it on the canvas and say Chase event started off on this Facebook ad because we saw him through these different parameters on this site as user ABC and then eventually landed in Stage B and I can connect that and I can say okay this is this is part of Chase's journey and I can visualize it on the canvas I I love when it gets to those points when it gets super exciting because it's like you know now you can do the the full funnel right like imagine filling out a panda dock at some point is part of the funnel right it realistically they have to go through that stage in order to get to the goal well you know through zapier or web hooks or high level or whatever we can tie that kind of all together and when you're able to present that to a client you know and show the full story I mean it's a Quantum Leap Forward compared to what most businesses have seen yeah we can we can show you like even this I we are on the zoom call and we can tie that back because of the email that I use to log into this Zoom call that this was part of my journey within the the go high level I received the emails to get prep for this uh I clicked on one of them that sent me to a page so you could see my entire Journey all the way to me attending this Zoom call and seeing it and we like in in that flow that's where it becomes really cool being able to look at offline all the way through online because funnels don't end when somebody just pulls out their credit card and buys something on an order form for a 47 dollar course or ebook right like yes we're taught uh from The Click funnels world and all that stuff that like you've got your free plus shipping funnel you've got your webinar funnel you've got your your front end tripwire funnel or whatever it may be and um but the reality is it's really about the entire customer Journey from the moment they they click on something and interact with the very first asset to them a year later still being part of your ecosystem and attending a live Zoom call or whatever whatever it may be right the more we can take that and be able to visualize it because you you clearly stated earlier when you visualize it you get it you understand it you can see it when you just look at numbers you're like I don't really know what this means or what I should be thinking about so yeah that's that's our mission that's our vision is basically being able to do full-on Journeys and visualize the entire end-to-end Journey you guys I'm curious because one technical challenge I'm curious to see how our team is going to approach um I they're going to start working on it soon if they haven't already is um for me I like to help people think hey like your funnel doesn't end after the first purchase right you want to get a review you want to get a repeat purchase right so reviews are something that happen on a third party system and so do you guys do stuff like that where are you kind of like looking like hey we know a review was generated let's try to match this name back to somebody in our database yeah at this stage no we don't kind of scrape uh review sites or anything like that it's it's all Based on data that gets passed into funnelytics so um you know again web hooks or um our own tracking script or our own uh events that we we look at but you're 100 right like it would be really cool if there's ways to start thinking about Somebody went to captera or G2 or whatever whatever the site may be they left a review and ultimately that is your goal for the customer journey is like how do you then know that that person is the person who left that review yeah so I love to ask people um SAS folks about like off the top of your head crazy customer memories or stories like have you have you seen can you recall is there a customer or an instance that jumps to mind of like the craziest mapped funnel you've ever seen or like the biggest Epiphany that you've seen come out of a funnel um I so uh two-fold uh when it comes to agencies specifically Consultants people who sell Services I think the biggest thing the biggest aha moment that I get with everyone um is when they visualize it for a client when they show them on a whiteboard what it is that they're going to do for them so when they take the pages that they're going to use and build and go high level or or like the SMS sequence and all of that stuff clients don't understand that right they they understand like a page they understand like Facebook icons they under they understand these simple things so when you visualize it in a flow um it is one of the simplest fastest ways for you to get a client to say yes and to get a client to say yes at pre at higher prices at premium prices and the main reason for that is because again they're seeing the picture they get it they're not trying to justify well you're going to post five times on Facebook for me for every week I don't know what that means exactly well these five posts lead here and these values there and that's how we get to this aha moment um another cool thing that somebody that people have done with phonalytics is there's some cool plugins on Chrome where you can inject like tracking scripts um in like a one-time front-end way so I can actually take funnel headaches I can inject the tracking script using a chrome plug-in and I can browse through your website and then I can go back into the platform and actually put all of the steps that I went through so I can visualize my personal Journey without installing anything on your website without doing anything but again that opens up your prospects mind around oh I understand what you're about to do for me I understand what's happening but have I seen people map some of the craziest stuff like yeah there's some people who have maps in funnelytics that are like thousands of icons like thousands of steps I always look at those I'm like it's insane like what are you trying to like is cool art it looks cool it looks very very unique but I mean there's no way whatever it is that you're about to do it's clearly just conceptual and it's for strategy because because there's no way that you've got enough traffic to for people to go through all these crazy steps that you've uh you've architected the interesting thing though um the people who make the most money always have the simplest funnels they have almost nothing it's actually kind of frustrating for me as a as somebody who's built this cool Infinite Canvas that you can map all sorts of touch points um because they really have like a very s very robust set of defined steps that they try and push their customers through and they just optimize the crap out of that they just continuously make it better and better and better we've got a client who does very easily 25 million dollars a year and their entire business is three pages and it's like yeah and like they visualize it in front analytics and I'm like okay I mean I can see it there's only so much I can give you in terms of insights it's not like there's very many paths people can do but like their entire business is is three pages and then eventually a sales conversation and um the ones who have all of these individual steps it looks really really cool but it very rarely works super it's really interesting right I mean a website that's three pages sounds so simple but when you think about how many different ways there are to do it if you were to if you were to go in and say okay let's test let's test the conversion rates on different paths here we could say maybe page two is a pre-recorded webinar maybe page two is like a Choose Your Own Adventure survey maybe page two is uh whatever like there's a million different ways to do this stuff right so saying a three-page funnel like oh what that's ridiculous no they've probably tested a lot of those things I just described and have with data proven the ones that you know the ideal path that people want to take that leads to that many sales I think um I think one of the Lost things with uh especially as marketers is we tend to get extremely excited by the tactics and we want to test and try new tactics and throw new tactics against the board what we don't do is spend enough time really analyzing and optimizing the tactic a lot of times uh it takes a really long time to get something working and to get something right and to keep to fine-tuning it to make it work in the way that you want to make it work and you know I look at the go high level site you know you guys haven't changed or added multiple Links at the top you haven't converted it into a typical SAS website you've really looked at just continuing to refine this particular page you haven't really changed it in a really long time but it works right why break something that already works and a lot of don't think we haven't tried to it just fails the test a lot to be honest it's really frustrating yeah we want we want to move to a more traditional site but the fact of the matter is the the classic funnel design curve converts better I know and it's it's it's frustrating because it's like ugly and like it's like oh this is boring especially for the marketer on the team right the marketer is like yeah I mean I'm sorry guys I'm trying so but like nothing you know like we should go this way we should go that way I think one of the things that um it it's because it's boring in the sense that not not the funnel itself but optimization is boring it's a let's try this version versus this version and oh okay that didn't work so let's try this but it's not let's throw this tactic and this tack in this tactic let's go and do content let's go and do paid ads and let's go and try LinkedIn and let's try it uh you know whatever webinars or whatever um you know Russell Brunson talks a lot about this in in his books and all that stuff is just do one webinar and do it until you make a million dollars and don't change your strategy until you make a million dollars from that one webinar for most people that's really hard and it's not because it's actually hard it's because mentally you're bored it's like I've already done this webinar four times I don't want to do it again right like but yep that's what you got to do you've got to really be disciplined enough and I mean I think you've sort of fleshed out why in my mind and I think most of our minds it's such an advantage and an opportunity for agencies right especially if you niche you know if you work for a while we used to work with a lot of Med Spas but we also worked with a bunch of chiropractors and when you've got 10 different Chiropractic websites that you can test the different things across the Ten of them and quickly find out which one works and then go prove that it works on the other chiropractor sites well now you know we used to have a funnel that ran you through this back pain calculator thing and it was this visual survey and it worked fantastic once you get it to the point where you know it's going to work for every chiropractor you know the ad you know the landing page you know the survey you know the nurture sequence the whole thing and then you can lay the visual Journey map on top of it right I loved what you said of like when you show that to a client and they can see it and they go oh so wait you're going to show me that every month right and you're like yeah yeah you can see this whenever you want right log in and you can see where everyone's at in the process that's like sold because I've never had that visibility before right I'm always just getting like like you said spreadsheets emailed to me I don't have time to sift through a spreadsheet to figure out you know what's really going on here but a visual map where you're confident because you know it's going to work because you've done it with 20 other chiropractors um and they're thrilled because they can actually see it for the first time um it's a great it's a very easy way to generate clients and retain clients for longer periods of time yeah it's also um it's interesting too because the reality is most tactics don't work right away and one of the coolest use cases of phonetics at least final X 1.0 and we're reintroducing this uh eventually in phonics 2.0 we had built a really cool um kind of forecasting tool where you can kind of just input your your conversion rates across the funnel and and see how many people move through that kind of like a guru and what's interesting is I can actually compare I can I can basically take my real data input it into the simulator and then tweak some numbers and see what the output would be so cool sales tool yeah because and a retention tool because what happens is when you just give some a client hey we spent ten thousand dollars we made eleven thousand dollars back they're just gonna say okay so you made me a thousand bucks what are you gonna do next week well next week we're gonna try and run a test on on your home page to see if we can get more leads right they're sitting there and they're like okay I don't know what that means like I don't understand it but when you take the actual map and you can see here's all of my pages here's my ads here's the purchase look here's what's happening here's how many people get to these steps this step right here is converting only at twenty percent but if we were able to crank that up to 25 this is how much money you'd actually be making so over the next month what we're going to work on is running a test right here to try to get this from 20 to 25 now the client's like I get it here's another month's worth of of Revenue or another month's worth of services right so they're they're more likely to stick because they they understand you're educating them as you're kind of going through that process yeah that that makes a ton of sense and and as I mentioned I love it also for the sales process because you know at least for us like the let's say the bottom three quarters of the funnel we would throw in the average stats that we had from all of our clients right it's like okay when they get to the quiz thing they typically are going to convert at that stage at this percentage and then the next step at this percentage the variable is going to be your ads right every ad costs different in every Market especially we're talking Google ads so we don't know exactly but we can estimate it's going to cost about two to three dollars to get the lead at the top and then we'll quickly know the math the rest of the way so what are we going to be doing next month we're going to be working to get that top number down so that you know we can get you into the band that we see across the rest of our client clients where you're putting in like you said a dollar and you're getting four back and you know everybody's happy and we're gonna have a long happy relationship together we didn't really have it visual though back then to be able to kind of show them right I think we made we had like a PDF diagram or whatever yeah yeah um you know this was 10 years ago at this point where you create like a Excel calculator yeah yeah and then it's all simulation the client's like well the calculator says it's true so it must be true exactly yeah so I know we're coming up on time I feel like I have to ask everybody these days um as we head into you know we're filming this in early January of 2023 AI it's all the rage is AI are you do you have your eye on it do you envision anything cool it's going to be able to do for funnel lytics or or funnels in general what are your thoughts yeah it's a good question I've got a lot of opinions uh when it comes to AI uh right now I think we are in the age of obviously AI content when it comes to um you know chat GTP and uh uh what is it Jasper and anyone which basically is the same thing you know we're we're in the age of what is real versus what is artificial content or human I should say versus artificial content and I think that's going to be our biggest kind of battle in the next year to two years Google I think we're going to have a hard like anybody who uses AI to build blog posts should be careful because Google's not not like they're they're gonna find a way to identify that content and and they're gonna penalize you like they did back in 2008 with like their Google slabs for for all those backlinks and all that stuff um so I think that is something we need to be very conscious about um in terms of data driven AI like that's to me you know the exciting part right we we track a lot of data points I think we track about 450 million data points every single month for our customers and there's so many opportunities to generate insights based on those data points that a person can't derive like they'd have to figure out what questions to ask when when the machine can figure it out and kind of just basically say if you were to spend five dollars more per day on this ad you could generate this much more revenue or if you were to tweak this you could you know make this or even having like Pages start to optimize and start running tests and experiment themselves um that's where I think it's going to get really really exciting but um yeah we're not quite there yet when it comes to AI driven insights but that's certainly from our standpoint of vision do you think and and I'm not an engineer so this is completely over my head but me neither by the way so it seems like it could you know I'm really fascinated when I see people Engineers talking about like chat GPT and things where it's like oh write me a python script that does these things and it just spits it out and they're like boom just save me 20 minutes like what if we could get to a point where AI could help on the back end solve some of those matching challenges right like is this the same person right and maybe the AI is pulling from a bigger database and it's like yeah I know that someone named Chase Buckner uses these three IP addresses repeatedly and so with 90 accuracy you can go ahead and say that's the same person in your system there to me that kind of stuff is going to be crazy like once that becomes commonplace where do you where do you draw the line in terms of privacy in that stage right like that's the you know that's the never-ending debate where people want privacy or so they think they want privacy what they really want is customized experiences which means that you can't ultimately have privacy but in the media and what we talk about Apple iOS devices privacy privacy privacy is all about privacy but the reality is on the marketing end we don't want privacy because we want to be able to deliver the most tailored experience that increases the highest conversions because it's based on what you want when you want it at the right time uh and you know it's it's going to be this never kind of I don't know where it's it's leading but uh it's certainly an interesting interesting debate what I love to be able to use AI to stitch profiles and bathe in people's privacy a little bit so I can give them more higher conversions and better insights absolutely will it will it happen we'll we'll see yeah we shall see uh Mikhail do you guys you know funnelitics.com is the URL um what do you guys have going on these days do you have any you know if people are listening and they're like you know what I should really get more serious about building out visual maps and things like that do you have an academy or somewhere people can go and learn to get started yeah so we have if you go to hub.phonolytics.io we have our kind of centralized Hub we've got a ton of content uh a funnel library in there we've got a bunch of expert spotlights and and a lot of stuff in there from an account Academy standpoint you can always go to funnelics.io and sign up for a free mapping tool it's completely free you can always just create an account play around with the mapping tool and you can always sign up to our performance light level which is basically the entry level to start tracking your pages your traffic sources start visualizing it on the canvas and we're we're constantly improving the tool we're constantly making it better and and trying to help the market so that's that's very cool I know a lot of people like to use that free mapping tool as like a mind map you know like strategize and things like that very cool thanks so much for uh for coming on to chat it up funnels and marketing with us I can go on forever but I do want to be cognitive of your team too me too all good thank you for having me I appreciate it it was a lot of fun of course thanks for watching guys we'll see in the next one [Music] foreign