Deal flow management for procurement

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extremely excited to to uh introduce and most appreciative of Tim Goen from a senior associate at Altera and Charlie or Director of Business Development for NOA Equity Partners guys want to take a minute introduce yourselves talk a little bit about your firms uh to get us started here maybe Tim going to take us first yeah absolutely so uh nice to be with you all today um as Jeff mentioned my name is Tim Goden I'm senior associate on the investment team at Altera Investments we are a private investment firm based in Atlanta Georgia um we invest primarily on behalf of ultra high net worth individuals family offices and raas across the broader Southeast uh the core of of our firm is private Market investing we have a focus on the lower Middle Market and invest across all the major major asset classes within that space private Equity private credit private real estate uh most of what we have done historically have been fund Investments so um you committing to an underlying fund sponsor such as Charlie fund um or we will also invest directly in co-investments and independent sponsor back transactions wonderful thank you Charlie yeah Jeff Al via team thanks for uh thanks for hosting love this topic and love um talking about this this information especially right now and in the world that we're living in um that we'll get into but so Charlie or and I I lead our business development function at renolda Equity Partners we're control buyout private Equity sponsor based in Winston Salem North Carolina and we focus on Pure Play lower Middle Market and we think about that in terms of really two to 10 of eida um we specialize in and found our own entrepreneural Le organizations we have been doing that and that's been our mandate and criteria since the late 90s and we think about the world really in three industry verticals Industrial Services healthc care services and products and outsourced Business Services we're investing out of fund four currently and have a great track record um really partnering again with those entrepreneurs and Founders and look forward to to the discussion today the the topic is mastering deal sourcing I happen to know from working with you guys and being close to you and catching up every so often that y'all have done that uh and the presumably by way of uh so many of you all that are joining us and thank you again for joining us that uh that we're here to share thoughts maybe some folks are looking for um how to do this I want to start us off though talking a little bit about just kind of let's develop a little bit of a point of view here what's going on the market Market I mean I I think the the sort of points of view people have on this market right now maybe are all all-time high if you just took as a proxy the sort of emails uh about the matter so super juicy topic Charlie what are you seeing man what's going on out there what what's what's the state of deal making in private markets right now yeah and first off I will level set that we were coming off of absolute Banner years in 21 and 22 and and for us those are a bit of an unrealistic Benchmark for the for the coming years this year included and the following years I think Capital was so freely available and there was such just a a large population of fundamentally sound great founder own businesses and upmarket businesses that that those were real record levels um where we are today it's been a very very interesting you know last 10 months I would say that how we what we've been seeing is generally 90% of what we've seen there's been a Slowdown in New Deal opportunities obviously debt financing credit markets have have been different have been tight I think sponsors fund managers have been able to underwrite increase in debt financing and that's somewhat leveled off in the lower Middle Market um what we're seeing across the board in this 90% quartile is is difficulty finding good fundamentally sound businesses that are back institutional back and what I mean by that is that there's true Revenue visibility sustainability of their current growth and great Tailwinds behind the business and in markets they serve um so we've had a hard time really finding good opportunities that we could get behind now the other side of the coin is that that 10% that I haven't mentioned um these are the outliers the businesses that have traded at Absolute premiums that it's been a robust process sside process and it's been an absolute feeding freny on I mean ourselves focused on the lower Middle Market have been competing against funds that we have not ever competed with in the past due to that Supply demand imbalance um last thing I'll say is that really the redeeming Factor here that will continue to drive m&a deals is their record level of dry powder and capital needs to be deployed by funds like ourselves and groups like Tim and so there's this Supply demand imbalance where we need to deploy we need to find good businesses that we can back and there just haven't been as many actionable businesses and opportunities in Market um but we are hearing good optimism for q1 Q2 next year and growing pipelines at this point yeah appreciate it lines up I think and um for some reason I just got this visual a big crowd everybody trying to kind of pile into the same place and a lot of times the case that there's some sort of zombie like Behavior going on there but to your point I mean record records uh set and seemingly consistently broken uh you know just two three years ago as a software provider in this market I can tell you without a doubt the the sort of creativity with which people were coming to form new vehicles and just raise as much Capital as you possibly could and even deploy them in in creative and um interesting new ways was was uh very apparent in in talking to people as a software provider uh Tim let's hear your take man what what's going on out there yeah you know I think this will be an interesting conversation mostly because you know Charli AR and I are coming at this from two completely different perspectives one as a an actual principal investor and another as an allocator um so for us on kind of the allocation side you know we've seen just a general slowdown to Echo Charlie's comments there's just been a general slowdown in transaction activity that's caused uh all of our fund Investments to kind of draw out the expected Cadence of cash flows and for us that's kind of slowed down our overall investment program um what we're looking to do on a go forward basis is to be a little bit more pragmatic about how we approach the types of asset classes we want to invest in and you where we want to prioritize on when it comes down to actual differences and transactions so that's namely funds versus uh direct deals um there has been more opportunity for us recently on the direct deal side um there's a general movement that that we've witnessed over the last five years or so in um independent sponsors just electing to stay independent sponsors and and raise deal by deal um pick taking off you know smaller Investments um to Echo Charlie's comments as well I mean we've seen a proliferation of capital up market and uh a lot of smaller uh funds have just been selling up to those individuals and and have really benefited from kind of the market dynamics that that are really driven at an Institutional level from much much larger Capital providers um again all benefit for us in this space and we continue to to see a lot of value in investing in the lower Market um overall you know I think we're just trying to be a little bit more thematic um so you know this is another uh topic that we talked about the other day uh Charlie just being um more purposeful with kind of the types of businesses we're looking at there are going to be winners and losers moving forward in terms of who benefits from uh the type of econ economic cycle that we're in um and you just wanting to be cautious CAU iously optimistic moving forward yeah yeah I want to um talk a little bit more about that you know again this is sort of real time we did talk the other day and kind of swap some thoughts and now in real time I'm sort of imagining based on what Charlie uh had told us this sort crowded let's even go zombie like uh place where where everybody's kind of trying to pile into the same thing and and appreciate you guys kind of explaining the Dynamics there of um why that's the case and what more or less what's going on there I think today's webinar is all about you know what do you what do you do about that um and by the way I guess it is the day after Halloween here in the US so you know that maybe the the zombie thing is come and gone but we're gonna stick with it to kind of unpack this this point here um so so what do you know what are you guys sort of doing Charlie let's talk a little bit about what you do you just sort of Pile in there with everybody else and kind kind of wander aimlessly no is the answer I know that because I know you and what you guys are up to but uh let's talk a little bit about that what what's been the mindset as the result of what's going on here and think could of course you know we're a technology company we're talk about some of the technology here but but more broadly than that too yeah yeah you know I mean you certainly can can join join the zombie population um get infected and kind of kind of Pile in line I don't think it's a winning sustainable strategy especially you know competing against funds that you do not want to compete with in an auction process how how we're thinking about the world and trying to be different and and Tim referenced this is really taking this thematic approach and when I say thematic approach I think a lot of sponsors and fund managers are using this terminology today but look we have three industry verticals Industrials business services and healthc care that's everything but energy and direct to Consumer consumer oriented Goods so it's still a pretty broad agnostic generalist approach and how we drill that down is that we it's the the market has allowed us to take a step back so jn1 nq1 we took a step back as an investment team as an investment committee and said look what are the three areas that we have very good experience in one two I have a bench of operating Executives who know the space cold who know the nuances of the business model the sales cycle the red flags the merits the risk so these are seasoned Executives that we've partnered with um and three where are the Tailwinds I mean where are some good actional areas that what we're seeing in the world we can we can jump in and capitalize on and um you know I'm happy to disclose them but we we've carved out three distinct areas that we know that they check all of those boxes we want to get the deal done so when we do find that opport opportunity whether it's on a proprietary or auction based process um we have very strong conviction and honestly we we can approach pretty damn aggressively to get the deal done and have high conviction that we can underwrite execute on a strategy and return dollars to our investors which is our our you know one job function at the end of the day um but you know one of those areas was was clinical trials and with the help of of a great software provider um starts with an A I think we all know the name of that is it does it rhyme with uh latva or look like lat that that is correct you're on the right track all right we basically took look it's nothing overly sophisticated but it comes down to our data Integrity the flexibility of the platform but we had a very distinct thesis in site management clinical trial space we knew based on our CRM our database our third-party data resources that were plugged into our CR RM all the relevant Bankers all the relevant comps and deals done over the last 24 months and built this true score card Benchmark of what a good business looks like we exited a business two years ago to have that track track record we pulled all of our operating advisors from our CRM that we knew had great experience there and basically went to our intermediary relationship said what we wanted to find why we wanted to find it and we ended up getting a deal done um you know three weeks ago four weeks ago on Friday of a great clinical trials business based in Florida that we're very happy to partner with so that's one success story of those three thematic searches that we'll continue to execute in the market that we're in right now yeah love it uh let's let's we'll unpack all that it's amazing I have so many things I want to go back for before we do Tim I want to ask you are you guys out there looking for what appears to be zombie like Behavior as an LP I mean is that's the story that you know people come into your conference room and pitch and you're like wow that sounds great just Pile in with everybody else and kind of on it yeah yeah yeah you know I think it that's a really attractive proposition no um no no we're certainly not I I think for us the kind of investment ethos of our business is finding differentiated returns in the lower Market you what does differentiated returns mean I mean we are completely Flex Capital so we are looking at just about anything in the Market at any given point in time there are going to be a lot of similarities across strategies there are going to be a lot of people that say the same things so what truly makes somebody differentiated what gives them a competitive advantage and it's some of the things that Charlie mentioned so having a proactive thesis driven approach where you are actively looking for things that are going to be a net winner in the long term is the starting point developing a robust sourcing process where you have developed um and kind of cultivated over years in many cases um strong proprietary sources of deal flow whether that's a small intermediary in Kansas City or you know uh executive in New York City you you have kind of the first look at a deal that's going to be a competitive Advantage another thing that we like to look for is some sort of operating Network and there are many different ways that this is deployed so Charlie just mentioned kind of how they go about it in in some capacity um whether it's you know people on staff or people that you have on speed dial that you're going to bring in to to the business to help you underwrite a business or potentially run the business those individuals in their experience are invaluable making sure that these are quality folks and particularly in the lower Market you the businesses that we're looking at are and the funds that we're looking at are investing in the same space that Charlie is in you know 10 to 25 million five to 25 million sometimes is the range of evop businesses there are a lot of things that can go wrong in a small business like that you need to have somebody that understands you what are the different things that we need to work towards and what are the T the things that can go wrong and how to quickly adjust to things when things go wrong um so having a a strong assessment of the individuals that are going to be operating the businesses even if it's the investment team um there there are some firms that that don't really have an operating partner Network that really go in and invest time in these businesses themselves you'd want to assess their capabilities as well um across the board I think we are just looking at at things with a little bit more of a hard line um do they have it or do they not um type of approach because you we really can't afford we have a lean Team U I can't speak for Charlie's team but I know there are other others on the allocator side that are relatively lean we can't afford to spend a lot of time and resources looking at something if it's just not going to to check all of our boxes um as you know maybe obvious as the as that may be yeah yeah you both used um the term and and and explicitly or implicitly said something about the matter but differentiated I'll tell you right now I'm on the record I've done these webinars where I've said it said it on podcast a couple times uh it's really pretty interesting as a software provider right I mean we're we're sort of talking to customers we're talking to prospects all sorts of different people in the market and I kind of rather enjoy when when I get a chance to talk to folks like what you know curious kind of what what do you feel differentiates you I you know one of the things about that that is part of our ethos is believing that the way people use technology and data and the data that comes from the technology um actually does stand to present actual differentiation and so I get get this kick where it's sort of like you know what do you feel differentiates you and I'll be honest I mean it's sort of the same answer a lot of times which by its own definition you know uh can't be differentiated if everybody says the same thing now I get why we you know why why we say it and and I get that um it also there there's actually something there but uh it sounds to me like what what I both heard you say in slightly different ways is that Now's the Time to really do that Charlie from your perspective you know looking at at how to really do that and and not just say it but Tim sounds like you guys are sort of probably at an all-time high in terms of really trying to understand that quickly and if there's not a lot there I mean maybe there's something there but if the story doesn't sort of come together pretty quickly it's it's a sort of market for you guys where it's just like got to move on um to something else so I want to go back and just just talk a little bit more about that and you know when we were talking the other day I mentioned um going back to my days it the when you're fundraising and this kind of new idea for this theme of something that might differentiate us comes up it's like oh we need a new slide to kind of tell that story and uh so I was kind of toying with the idea of like what are the new slides you know you guys are sort of working on what are the new slides you you're seeing and stuff you you've kind of mentioned some of it here um you know in terms of kind of being sector and you know thematic focused and stuff like that let's go back uh in a little bit more detail on that and Charlie I want to you know kind of uh understand the process of Technology's role here because I think you had said something about how how that actually is helping to to maybe find the differentiation uh and then or to to and then to kind of help confirm that that it it's truly a thing as you sort of put it through the the machine of of being thematic and looking at stuff like is this actually the stuff that's sort of fitting tell us a little bit more about that I do think what you guys are doing uh in in your work with us it's fascinating okay yeah happy to and I'll get into the technology piece the one thing I'll offer up is that we promote heavily especially to our investor base um look resource allocation is always top of mine and Tim spoke to that and that is so true our time our resources our dollars but we truly have the ability to be creative um and so when you think about the the the midm market lower Middle Market I mean we really come in willing to come in at to aada and then build a platform that is you know institutional bable that can underride and show well with LPS and so we have a thesis we we can be creative and I mean by that is start typically pretty pretty small where other institutional investors are not able to do so or willing to do so now you know certainly a risk in a pretty fragile volatile business we've had a great track record of of finding those small diamond in a rough building around that management team and have great outcomes and exits so that is one way that we definitely differentiate ourselves on the sourcing side data management I mean that the technology stack that we leverage um I'll kind of level set that it is it is very competitive there are new sponsors fund managers every day I mean Tim looks at this on a daily basis fundless sponsor independent sponsor I mean people are raising like crazy especially the you know prior years that we coming off of and so we're we're there's a lot of us in the market so how do I differentiate ourselves to sellers to Founders to bankers and our deal Source relationships and then finally and you know arguably most importantly is our investor base and investor base it's it really is on that technology piece so we lean heavily on the alt via team to first start with our third-party data providers that you know if VA via would offer I'm sure it'd be better than any any of them but it's just not the the same business line so we're looking at Market mapping make sure we understand the competitive landscape how fragmented it is and not just here from a banker it's highly fragmented but we want the the quantitative information of how big this Market is who the key OEM and and and players are in that and then how many of those small Mom and Pops that we could acquire really make up that that landscape and then any relevance on that data set we are flowing in all via and managing from there and so what I love about Alva and the Salesforce ecosystem just how flexible it is so we can come to the Alva team and say look we've got this kind of out of the box idea um is there a custom object or workflow or automation that you guys can build for us and more times than not it's it's a yes let us kind of white forward this and come back to you and you know I'm surprised that our system is not broke at this point because we have so many custom objects in automation that is driving this thematic approach the the creative kind of smaller deal Market approach and then third our intermediary relationship um another way that we differentiate ourselves is we tell LPS like Tim that we're fishing from a different Pond and we mean that our longtail of deal sources where the the typical investment banks are showing us average I don't know five to 10 deals a year majority of the deals that we get done and opportunities we get done are from the onesie toies intermediaries in Kansas City or you know in the blank I mean we we've gotten deals referred to us from Realtors who had a friend and you know offered a referral fee so it's a difficult Market to cover when you think about my time and my team's time and resources and we lean I mean we we require software that keeps us in line that does all of our time management reminds us who's delinquent who's a priority and the type of Outreach required to stay relevant in top of mind yeah yeah you know it's funny um from time to time I I'll I'll end up you know passing kind of demoing some of the the stuff that we've got and there's this particular um thing that I like to show and and it's sort of like the rough idea is here's where deals are coming from here's what the exhaust of them moving through the pipeline look like right so here's where most of them got kicked out here's how long they stayed there and then here's what got through and where it came from and how long it took and all those sorts of things and again the idea with with what we're trying to do is is provide as many sort of data Ponies as we can if there's something in there interesting uh to you then we want to make it easy to find it and and so on this particular view one of the things that I tell people is hey it the just the way that the demo data is kind of set up in this case uh to show like that person like when when somebody gets asked the question oh who's your top deal Source what does that even mean I think a lot of people are like oh the one that sends us a thousand deals a day right it might be one definition that would be fair but in this particular demo um screen it's like yeah none of those are close you're spending a bunch of a Time on on deals that you can't get close did you know that the sort of one you closeth on actually coming from the and you know I I joke with people in the demo I'm like it happens to be a name that seemed it's like kind of difficult to pronounce and so if an if you're sitting in front of an LP and they ask you this question would you pronounce the name right or would would you even know that that's actually the the sort of answer sounds like kind of what what you guys are finding in this market Charlie like that that long tail yeah yeah yeah we we lean on that long tail again my you know I think highly of myself sometimes but it's uh we can't do it without our technology it it is my time management tool and my team's time management tool to make sure that we're covering the right folks and the right folks is really defined by the technology and how we create that criteria whether it's IIs Lois closed deals management presentations um kind fill in- the blank metric that we we track Yeah Tim sitting in front of a GP that says oh well our process is differentiated the way we deals are differentiated uh what's your first thought and what do you do I mean you know what what what sorts of questions are you asking and ultimately I I know as well you guys are using our technology to do some cool stuff talk to us a little bit about you know when we talk about LP transparency and all this data that they want and stuff are we really digging into that to see if it's truly differentiated maybe you're the one finding the pony that the GP didn't mention and that doesn't seem like it's going to go well for the GP talk to us about that yeah you know I I think to your last point there Jeff if if I'm not finding stuff like that I'm I'm not doing my job um you know our investors are relying on us to underwrite these sponsors and you know that means kind of turning over a lot of rocks to try to find you know something that you know doesn't look right um you know even if we can't find anything odds are it's you know it's not a perfect opportunity I think perfect opportunities are rare you know whether it's a fund or a deal um you know on the point of differentiation if if a sponsor says you know XYZ is is differentiated and and this is what makes it special um I me candidly my first reaction is like perv it um you know show me what what you're talking about uh and if they can show me you know a a pipeline that is like incredibly robust and and is well within their Strike Zone on on every metric and you know you can have as a potential LP stepping into a portfolio you know have confidence that the sponsor is sourcing things that they say they're going to source and they're going to execute the strategy the way that they say they're going to execute it you you can have some confidence in that in that claim um but nonetheless there's still you know you work that you have to do on the underwriting side in terms of determining you know well like how differentiated is that you relative to to another group that's saying the exact same thing um so there's a relative comparison type of analysis that you have to do and you know we've used Alia for that um on every decision that we we make there's uh you know a qualification of the group that we're working with and you know whether we think that they're a stronger candidate as an organization than another sponsor uh and then the same type of analysis takes place at the fund level if we're looking at a fund or two different funds you know how do they compare against each other do we feel as though one is um you know a better fit for for our overall portfolio first and foremost but then second to that you know which one do we think is going to be um you know more uh you know more of a of a differentiated I keep using differentiated I can't think of another word you know that that defines that what I'm trying to articulate but you know that is going to to be kind of the the best option for us given the parameters that we have at any given point in time um and yeah I mean we we've thought of of as many different sources as we can to pull into our system and you we just recently started using answers which is aate solution that um we know will unlock a whole lot of analytical capability for us that we previously didn't have so there are there are always ways that we are iterating on our underwriting process um to allow us to hopefully be able to uncover more things quicker or on in the process um but you know we're we're as Charlie mentioned I mean we are using Alia heavily to kind of streamline our process and understand um you know exactly where we need to prioritize time based on you know where we have demand from our investors where we have a need from a portfolio basis or just what's in the market what's timely and What needs to have a decision made now yeah yeah you know when I think about um uh what you're saying here but also what what I've seen you guys up to and some of the Strategic stuff we've helped you out with I have this little um satirical sort of thing in my head of like an LP being like okay so we you know you gave us all this data and um and and you told us you're differentiated and it turns out that you are differentiated in a totally different way than you thought here is what we found and having the GP like oh amazing thank you so much we're going to start going with that instead and and there there's a situation there where um you know you could get comfortable with that I think it's like well the still there we still found why we want to you know partner and back you just you know could have been easier for you to have led with that you know and all that and going back to my days as as a institutional LP um that you know that was the name of the game then too now of course the the sort of sharing of data and the the solu the Technology Solutions available to marry it up and to generate and all that stuff are far more sophisticated but I I want to ask this question Tim do you judge GPS on how long it takes them to provide you with the data that you're asking for it's okay I I did uh I didn't feel comfortable saying that but I asked that question of a lot of people it seems anecdotally like more and more people are like for sure we do and confirming that let's get your answer here on the record webinar on the record uh short answer yes I do uh I also judge GPS on how they respond to questions about their portfolio uh if there is any type of hesitation or uncertainty or lack of conviction in their response that's also something that I judge them for yeah good you're not alone obviously uh and for the folks from GP joining us including Charlie there it is you're being judged I'm curious Charlie we talked about this a little bit um you know you guys are in that camp in my head uh and I haven't gone through all of your data as an LP so um I'm I'm trusting based on having worked with you for a while that uh I've seen enough to know it's there but uh talk to us a little bit about that I mean you're saying you you've been using some technology and data to find some differentiated stuff get in there I love the word conviction right that means hey we'll be more aggressive because we know we're not just sort of you know uh at the door with all the other zombies hoping to you know kind of get get the best deal um how does that transfer to telling the story to lpce you know you said it was probably the most important part um how much do you guys bring that into the process and say well you know uh here's how quick we can respond to that or let's say down in real time you can ask me anything and we'll we'll talk about it I mean help us understand how much value and how differentiated it is for you to sort of tell this whole story because it's one thing to get into the deals nobody's in but then you you could totally bot that and my sort of thecal uh situation there it's like you if you may not have said that and yet the lp determined it for you that's not the case how are you guys kind of highlighting that and and telling the story with LPS yeah I mean look with with the help of all via we have a lot of data it it's an iterative process it's honestly more art than science at this point I mean when you look at I'm not GNA give Tim access to this but you look at our kind of archived slides on our current LP presentation I mean you can chop this data thousands of ways I we we have so much information whether it's on the sourcing front the portfolio performance front or just where we're hunting this thematic search um in our system that you know we are we are constantly pulling new drafts of information so so it really is it's a process that we're doing today tomorrow yesterday and constantly thinking of creative ways of we have this powerful information we need to do a better job figuring out what what the answers what are the solutions that Tim and team is looking for that uh that make us stand out in an overly competitive market um I think real time look we we as simple as the the concept is today we're big Believers in just visualization tools whether it's within the Via system I mean we're we're currently you know tapped into a third party visualization tool as well that flows directly from Alva and so we have an endless supply of dashboards that aren't just made to be made we're really utilizing and you know we have a separate report that ala has created that shows you know reports or dashboard usage kind of by user so you know we're watching this real time so we know who is leveraging all of the visualizations and and information that we've created um so one I think we're we're flexible to lean team as a reference but we have the ability to kind of spin off information as quickly as necessary from our co-investors from our LPS from our you know operating visor Network they're they're running diligence too it's not at a fun level but it's more more sector dependent and we have to quickly drum up information for them and in a digestible format and that is the visualization tools that we have um implemented right now that we leverage all the time so it you know not not a great answer Jeff I I think we're constantly learning iterative process and you know have a lot of information to pull from right now but I think it's a great answer man I knew the answer when I asked you the question uh but I'm curious like um specifically because you know where I'm sort of at right now with my line of questioning is like um on this judging the time it takes and you know this sort LP Dynamic one of the things I know is very common right now is bringing somebody in and you know helping kind of walk through the portfolio and understanding potential co-invest stuff like that and so that's a sort of stage as well right it's not just these sort of data requests that are asynchronous where the analysis is done by the lp separately um you guys are you know kind of armed up there you're you're able to sort of bring somebody in that that can um talk to the co-invest understand the portfolio and you know in the broader fundraising story that that's important right yeah vital a lot of times Yeah Tim uh what's that like for you guys I mean you know uh what's your perception of that I mean are is that an opportunity for the GPS you look at to to maybe have the differentiation moment when you've been through a hundred of these portfolio walkthroughs and then on the 101st it goes away that you're like that person really understands the portfolio they you know they've really got it and there are some interesting opportunities maybe for us to co-invest and we can get conviction with their process I mean what talk to us about that yeah you know to to Echo kind of a component of Charlie's answer there I I think visualizations are amazing you know the the the best way to understand kind of what a pipeline looks like is actually seeing it whether it's in a curated dashboard or like the raw format that the GP is using um that has been immensely helpful in terms of like understanding exactly um what their own process is internally or even what the output of it is and what could ultim end up in the portfolio in either case a visualization and seeing the data being used or on the platform in in a kind of a tutorial in some sense is has been great for me I've always viewed those favorably I've always thought of GPS as having that capability as a a group that's kind of A Cut Above the Rest um there are surprisingly not that many that have that ability to kind of give you a live look at what their pipeline is or for their internal data on where they're sourcing deals from or what they're seeing in the market that stuff is immensely valuable particularly if you walk through it in person as well you know a lot of times you can do things over Zoom these days um a part of our diligence process is meeting groups in person maybe it's a little Antiquated these days but we want to go into office sit down with the investment team meet as many people of the firm as possible also go through all of our OD diligence and um you know legal and background checks and all those things um and you know that's kind of a a comprehensive due diligence I mean we are looking for groups that are willing to go through that process any group that is unwilling to go through that process is not going to get a check I mean that's kind of a table Stakes type of arrangement their own their own group of zombies you know lining up to me with the LPS um I I did not anticipate using the term zombie so much here um it's working though especially day after Halloween um yeah you know it's it's funny you said that to me I mean I I so you know clure we I appreciate all of the love you guys are sharing for L I'm not going to tell you not to also not not not the point here I'll just mention one thing I mean that's a big opportunity you know for us we we seeing this opportunity to help the GP tell the story not just to help the you know generate that the exhaust of the data that comes from you know kind of sourcing activities and and being you know workflow driven and reminding Charlie to call this source that you know the data says is great but whose name is hard to pronounce because nobody's talking about it um but there you know there are all sorts of ponies in that data that the GP then can say okay great you know this actually can confirms or uh you know maybe shed the light in an area we haven't been looking and then the opportunity for us to help with art technology tell that story to GPS and it's always cool I agree not enough um sorry tell it on behalf of the GPS to the Ops agree not enough people are taking advantage of that we're here to fix that so so holler at us and reach out if if there's a problem for us to help you solve there but uh I think every time that comes up I think about this story I heard recently from my massive like I think top five top 10 terms of au on private Equity Firm not a customer of ours but I heard the story of a role they you know hired into for somebody to basically in talking with that person have like seven spreadsheets up at the same time you know and also looking at the camera on zoom and just trying to sort of you know and um man that makes me I I really makes my sort of blood pressure go up a little bit thinking about being that person um and so you know with with good data good technology doesn't have to be that way I want to um take a minute it's uh 11:45 here in Colorado 15 minutes remain uh please do ask us some some questions um I've got one I know out there uh in slightly different direction let's go back and kind of you know dig dig a few things up here that will be interesting to the audience but Charlie you mentioned it right so so your data is a factor of the dat you generate that exhaust I'm referring to so to um third parties right there's a lot of third parties out there uh you know something earlier that was mentioned um made me think of one of um our new partners Dakota which great IR uh fundraising uh data set it came up because one of the things they have is manager you know presentations and LP analysis from like you know Foya funds and and interestingly we were looking through some of those and many of the LPS Write up the case for GPS and talk about their technology was very interesting to see that but in any case on the you know um sourcing and universe kind of mapping side I know the questions out there what what are the sources what what Mak some difference so Charlie we we did a webinar a couple years back you talked about some of the ways novel ways that that uh you go find data um what would be answer to that yeah what are the sources out there what what makes them good bad what you know which ones are interesting to you third party it really comes down to data integrity and just quality of the information like there's a ton of platforms out there that offer private company in info you know estimated funding private Equity experience any transactions all public information that are then plugged into specific platforms and this cool UI and you know userfriendly I think we've got a couple that we that we use that that essentially helps us find proprietary opportunities now we are not we're not going to go to Tim and say look we only do proprietary deals but given our size range there's not a lot of Bankers that are willing to take on you know to a viaa calibration business or Industrial Service business and so we have the ability to kind of fux up and be creative without making this massive manual resource drain just due to our technology resources whether that's simple API integration with all via upload import and then we can do some direct calling we can do some direct emails it's it's not it's never a fishing exercise I look we we'll tap a universe we call it 5,000 private companies we'll pull out 12 that based on what we know and the information that we've aggregated we would invest in that business now obviously diligence has to take place but we take a very curated personalized approach to find these businesses that fit within this thematic approach now the the number of deals that we're doing a year that fit within that that description is is is low I'm you know I'm fine to admit that but in a market that we're in today this has been a great feeding ground and opportunity for us to that a minimum meat Founders get to Mo know their business a bit more and even if they don't want to sell to us tomorrow when they do hire a broker a banker intermediary we're going to be at top of the list and we have that early access to management and know the team well so um look I'm I'm happy to give the names but there's a number of of of private company information aggregation tools that we we really lean on that help our sourcing and also diligence measures on a new platform investment yeah yeah and I think we know the names we we're integrating at with all of them um Capital life Q pitchbook Thor scrub big big ones you'll hear a lot um you know many that uh too too many to list here but you know I love this idea of like if that's all that everybody had then nobody is differentiating correct if it com about what do you do with that and what other data points come out of the activity that you got the idea to take based on the publicly available stuff yeah I I think one now this is not proprietary technology by any means but um you know we we found groups that actually use not to use the buzzword in today's world but actually use true artificial intelligence that has a true algorithm that we manage there's there's it's not a database that they pull from names that they've aggravated over the years and since Inception and since the last but raise this is a realtime AI tool that is scrubbing the the internet as we know it I mean it is looking at business description any keyword and honestly it's it's allowed us to stay ahead of the tools that a lot of sponsors use um so that's been one key area but I think yes to your point it's uh if everyone's on it it there's nothing really unique about it it's it's so it's one finding additional tools and two figuring out how to Leverage that data quickly effectively and make the most return on on that investment because it really is an investment for you know our time but also um cash and capital needs yeah yeah no I agree I appreciate um the acknowledgement of the buzz where I think there's a lot of power we're having an AI moment and when we have moments like this um it means there's something really there it means there's also a lot of noise um and the thing I you know I've mentioned this a couple times I keep waiting on is the data sources the sort of ones that we don't know of yet but which are able to understand like in your case with your strategy Charlie it's like um here's an entrepreneur who built bootstrapped a business and whose daughter is the you know uh star varsity lacrosse player and likely to be accepting a scholarship uh or playing somewhere where you know Mom or Dad the entrepreneur may need to take some off the table and getting ahead of that process being banked or uh formally coming to Market building relationships and stuff so that's just like this one thing I've always thoughted like man what when do we get that data and that's not a huge data set but the point is when did when is the technology data capabilties AI when do they start presenting and selling that because you'll pay a lot of money for that i' guess and there's even tools that you know we've used in the past that we can find business owners that have searched for investment banks for & process uh past a number of times where it's a true search criteria you know we can even Harvest that information and and go directly when they're researching that uh which is a little scary but but it it's out there well look you know the thing that's scary uh is when you know nobody has any interest in actually pumping each other it turns out that it's inherent in that that you know there's probably Mutual interests and so it's no longer scary it's convenient in that case yeah correct correct cool um well we're coming up against that I want to you know offer the audience another opportunity please feel free jump in um ask us any questions but uh just maybe kind of ask sort of final word and that could just about be anything uh you know what what's the stuff that you know isn't happening yeah we just kind of talking about that that that you guys are thinking about and know Tim you had mentioned when we talked the other day that you guys are are thinking about you know building analysis Tools in a way where you can very quickly and dynamically change the inputs and so you can adapt and not have to kind of rebuild the data that that you consume but maybe take a you know flip it around a little bit based on something that that just changed I mean what's the sort of stuff that that is coming what what what's top of mind but what if we did this webinar in you know two years would there be something dramatically different than what might it be might you know I'll say AI probably a much bigger part of the conversation at that point but but how about for you guys as we wrap up here yeah I mean for for us in two years our our process could look dramatically different than it does now you know I think if you're not kind of iterating on on what you're doing you're not learning and growing and and becoming better um you were always looking for you know alternative sources of information that could give us a better decision and help us kind of move quicker through a decision-making process um you with Alva and the Bevy of resources that we have you we are trying to pull in alternate sources of information to help our underwriting process just you know become a more robust process you whether that's pulling in Deal information similar to what Charlie's looking at on the sourcing side just to have a better approximation for what the market looks like which is not something that we currently do um even something like that which we know is a capability that we could Implement um it is some of the things that we're thinking about um you know o overall like I I think that um the kind of process in in which everybody has access to the same thing uh or or kind I guess the status quo um is very real you know even for us on the allocator side I mean we are we are always constantly looking for for additional Capital partners and and investors to bring into our Network and there is a differentiation aspect that that even we need to bring to bear in those conversations um and the breath of our research and our capabilities and our data help support those conversations all the same as Charlie does when they're interacting with groups like us um so you know overall we're just kind of continuing to try to to in enhance the system that we have and and refine the story you know such that you know we don't have a situation like you described earlier Jeff where someone says you should have led with a different a different point and um you know hopefully uh in two years we will all have been immensely successful in our efforts Yeah Yeah we actually got the question as I was sort of asking it formerly asked as what are the most innovative ideas in how to track sourcing that are not in the system yet but ought to be there in two years and that's that sort of exhaust I think you know uh when I think about it is like it's kind of out there like it's being created and then the the question is about like when we know we want that you know how how were we able to sort of track it you know it's a fascinating concept how about for you Charlie any um kind of last word thoughts on that yeah and we're always thinking about just how to be more proactive versus reactive I mean a lot of the information is very in the rear view I mean based on you know it's been for example 90 days since you touched ex Banker it's time to touch them again or you know have a phone conversation with FL to New York whatever it may be um and like we don't know what's on the horizon but I think there are some smart you know tools that are going to be far more predictive than just a simple Cadence or frequency that's going to allow us to get ahead of processes um stay top of mind for bankers and Founders and be far more proactive than reactive which you know I think most of us are today with information that we have there's some tools that are getting closer to being more proactive and and uh you know more of this preventative type thought but um it it'll be interesting to see I I think there's one thing that we can't take away from our business is that it's still very relationship base and it always will be a seller selling their business is their is their pride and joy and so there's there's no getting around that and us having relationships with intermediaries and deal sources and LPS is still going to come down to like know timized relationship on a personal level yeah yeah absolutely yeah and I think you know on this question I love this question um uh we had a customer Advisory Board um in person meeting meetings a few weeks ago and you know we we talked about this topic of you know uh a lot of I think process around you know data management stuff um is a matter of organizing and being committed to storing information that you may not yet know is valuable right because this is this is what's fascinating about AI is like well so tell me what's in my data and AI is like you don't really have anything in your data but when you've committed to you know capturing that exhaust and organizing it well and then looking for patterns in it you know perhaps AI is able to do that so I think that my answer to that question is you know um the innovative ideas will come I think there's a base level of sort of commitment that I know you guys is as the culture of your firms are committed to but making sure you're committed to actually you know being data driven and having process that allows you to even be in a spot to capture exhaust that you don't know there's ponies in yet so you can come back when the Technologies and Innovation get there to to be able to kind of make sense of that so uh fast we can go on for hours and hours uh this is awesome stuff I really appreciate you guys uh joining us thanks for being uh doing your thing thanks for working with us we're grateful to be a part of it and uh thank you for everybody who who joined us to talk to this today let us know if there's anything that that we can help you out with always interested in swapping ideas with with any and all so please reach out if you're interested in it guys thanks again most appreciate you we'll uh we'll talk to you soon and uh keep keep doing your thing I can't wait to to catch up again on this topic here pretty soon good luck to you guys thanks jef all right take care everybody thank you so much