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[Music] hello and welcome to the medical sales podcast and I am your host Samuel in this podcast I interview top medical sales reps and leading medical sales Executives across the entire country and it doesn't matter what medical sales industry from medical device to pharmaceutical to genetic testing to Diagnostic lab you name it you will learn how to either break into the industry be a top 5% performer within your role in sales or climb the corporate lab matter welcome to the medical sales podcast hello and welcome to the medical sales podcast I'm your host Samuel and today we have with us another special guest and he goes by the name of Adam Mustafa now Adam is he's a really this is a really unique episode because Adam was uh he started in Pharma actually started outside of the industry got into Pharma leveraged that into medical device and then leverage that into a data company and now this guy has insights on on medical device sales and Pharma that that just are just is changing the game and it's become an essential thing for medical sales companies to to to learn but the reason why I want you to really dive into this episode is because he talks about the mindset required to be successful in in health care sales um I don't want to spoil it there's a lot of there there's gold that he just drops off in this episode so I'm going to I'm going to leave you to it as always we do our best to bring you Innovative guests that are doing things differently in the medical sales space and I really do hope you enjoy this interview all right Adam how we doing today doing great Samuel great to be on absolutely absolutely why don't you tell everybody who you are and what you do all right fantastic well my name is Adam Mustafa I'm the managing director of Business Development at a health care startup uh based out of Seattle called tretta uh we work with medical device companies pharmaceutical companies to Leverage real world data for research purposes so we we work with the entire industry whether it's on the phide device side biotech you know this idea of data and being able to use data for the advancement of your company isn't just a nice to have anymore it's a have to have especially in the device marketplace right this was a theme that was on the Pharma side for years right yeah trials retrospective analysis all that but now the device companies are getting asked by their customers the hospitals where's your rwd show me a thirdparty analysis of your stapler versus this stapler and don't tell me that you ran it show me the independent that that you ran it because the hospitals are using this same data to Benchmark themselves against other hospitals to show their value to payers so this idea of data is is becoming universally something that people have to harness and people have to understand to advance their organizations to where they need to get so so with the data are you saying that your company conducts the the studies to get the data or are you saying that your company does more of finding the data pulling it together and presenting Insight yeah that's a great question so we're actually owned and governed by our health systems so Health Systems in 2019 thought hey there needs to be a better way to transfer research to transfer ideas between Health Systems right covid happened and that idea rocketed through the air so we actually work with our health systems to utilize their data in a deidentified hippoc compliant fashion to partner with the device community at that point so it's EHR related data it's this granular data of medical device usage outcomes safety and adherence all these things that government agencies like the FDA CD really need for device expansion and things like that we help and we design strategies for the life science Community to be able to leverage that and be successful got it so so you guys create actionable yeah actionable strategy plans for for companies based on the government data that you have access to well not necessarily government data but our health system data for things like government purposes and things of that okay okay so then so then when you when you are presenting this data you know what does it look like from the medical device company's perspective is it you pay this level of data we're going to give you insights that you just couldn't imagine having or is it more standardized or you know talk to us a little bit about what that looks like yeah it's basically a subscription right they say okay we need to understand what's going on in this product category we need to understand device specifics utilization um potential outcomes associated with this because we have to do papers we have to do studies we have to prove that our outcomes are positive or our competitive usage is better than this particular competitor and things of that nature so they really partner with us and our Tech platform that all this data sits on so we can be an integral part of their strategy kind of moving forward but the health systems love it too because you're sharing these these positive things for the patient as you move forward with the health systems as well makes sense makes sense okay and then is this you know you said Pharma kind of saturated with this type of understanding and medical device is kind of catching up is that being driven by your company's you know putting them on notice or is that being driven by by medical device just compan realizing that hey we need to get this info where can we get this info what's driving the demand the lb right it's it's it's their customers going to them and saying I'm not going to let you in unless you show me a head-to-head comparison that's third party adjudicated this that and the other right the the customers are driving this the FDA when they go in for a label expansion they said hey we need to see e EHR data claims isn't enough we need see a more granular approach to show me that this device was used in this patient at this time and this outcome was what came from it so it's it's really kind of this convergence of needs from so many different angles that is really kind of creating this Hockey style effect of adoption within the medical device industry man so I mean data companies I mean we're in a data we're in a data uh what do you call it we're in a data uh period of of life right this is the data the data industry Revolution um I would imagine that because of this data companies are popping up left and right they're trying to they're trying to right but you got to look at you got to look at the bones of it you know we are like I said owned and governed by our health systems sure so our relationship compared to other data companies is very unique it's very transparent it's very no in the gray our health systems know what we're doing we know what the health systems doing and we're all in it together right we're privately we're you know we're privately held by the health systems they have their goals they have their agendas but it's like I said at the end of the day it's all about pushing this idea of research forward and then getting the device community in Pharma and life science as a whole and the health systems on the same page and maybe even on the same research platform so now the Health System is using the same research platform that you device company is using now you're talking the same language now you're sharing research now you're on the same level and now you're advancing what healthc care is supposed to be like that's exactly right and that's what that's the vision that these these Health Systems came with yeah granted there's there's a profit Vision associated with it as well but they saw the Gap they saw the Gap in information between what the life sciences were doing and what the health systems were doing and it needed to be more conjoined and those are the facts um so with all this being said what would you say what's the biggest Trend that's impacting medical device I mean we kind of know that there's there's a huge one impacting Pharma what would you say is a big that's impacting medical device you know from from a data a data perspective yeah it's the postco world yeah everything postco within the device Community has changed you know access has changed the way you get products into hospitals have changed consolidation is happening so there's so many different factors that are influencing what's going on in the market but I would say the most is a consolidation of device companies into these giant companies like a metronic or a Johnson Johnson neicon or these small biotechs being absorbed into these these companies and then the hospitals having more and more power gone are the days where the Physicians are directing the way that they're handling their business right are the days where the physician can walk into materials management and say hey I'm going to use the stapler tomorrow on this patient uh just go buy it sure you know the hospitals buying buying surgeons right having more hospitalist now having surgeons that are on payroll now the surgeons are are really kind of working for the hospital and doing what the hospital asks so it's really important to understand that this Market has changed you know the way that you approach business has to change because if you don't the the you no it's a fact so so would you say that then Contracting is driving everything uh it's been doing it in Pharma but it's also doing it in medical devices absolutely absolutely you know it was hard enough prior to co getting your product in off right right right right but now with with the value being so expressed by these gpos now you really have to understand okay how can I partner with my GP you know if I'm not on contract what does my company have to do to get on contract or if I'm not on contract what are the thresholds that the hospital that I'm trying to get into what are their thresholds that will give them off contract spent is it 20% is it 30% these are the things you need to know if you want to be successful and talk the language that your customer as far as the hospital is concerned if you're in the device Community is speaking as well I love that I love that so let's let's stay there so you know we're talking about Contracting driving everything in medical device sales you know I remember gosh this is years ago I mean I'm talking like 20 years ago let me not date myself this years ago nobody heard that this was years ago and I remember in in Pharma you know they would be saying you know there's soon there's going to be no such thing as a Pharma rep you're just not going to need them um Med device same thing yeah soon you know eventually who who's going to need a med device rep it's all going to be remote and it's all going to be driven by contracts anyway and it it it makes people say wow you know maybe maybe being a medical being a medical sales professional is not the move maybe I need to stay as far away from that Bas is possible but when you look at the data the the the the sales force of these medical sales companies that's only grown and it's continuing to grow which means not only have medical sales professionals not gone anywhere they've actually added more and more upon more and more but you you still as a medical professional you still have this fear of but if if I'm controlled by Contracting how do I perform in that space yeah I believe though that when you learn the rules and regulations of any industry you are more power ful than anything please talk to us about why it should excite someone that wants to be medical self professional or that is even to excite someone that this whole contract control is just coming it's going to be more more prevalent why is that a good thing because the amount of value that a representative is bringing into the door is becoming less and less because there's less and less Representatives out there kind of bringing that value right but if you can capture what this Hospital hospital is looking for if you can capture what these goals are that this Hospital potentially has now your value has greatly increased right but I'll tell you this and I'll tell you know the the the folks looking to get into medical device this if tough Contracting and getting things that may not be a little bit easy is deterring you there's plenty other indust there are plenty other Industries out you have the mindset of a killer you have to have the mindset of how do I be strategic what can I do different than my competitors like that's the mindset that you have to have now you can't say oh well if I'm not on contract I'm not going to make the money that that you want to make you'll never be successful in this industry if you have that learn the contracts learn what you have to do learn like I said the gaps that are there because there are gaps there right and then if you line yourself with the right Champions within the hospitals if you align yourself with the right Specialties within the hospitals for your products and you identify the person that may be able to get that 20% that's not on on contract now you're playing in your own ball field right because you're not in this competitive space that hey I'm trying to get this stapler in over this stapler you might have an Innovative product that you don't have a competitor kind of banging on the door and you carved this night's Niche for yourself right and the value that you're expressing is exponential with your client your surgeon right who's going to continue to fight for you every time you have something else that you bring to the table that you say hey I got this now you should try it he's going to trust that he's going to have faith in that and then he's got that little 20% to work with as well right no it's real that's you preaching now you know I want I want you to share with the audience uh and we had a little story we talked about just before we got started and and you you were telling me about how you you basically a real life example of what you just explained yeah please please share with the audience what happened and then and then let's get into of course your history but but share with the audience first yeah yeah so it's funny it's when I first started in this industry you know I I I didn't start directly out of college in this industry my first job was actually in radio advertising sales in Nashville Tennessee wow I worked for a hip hop and R&B radio station called to beat jams what are you are you a hip hop and army fan oh the old stuff the new stuff 199 1989 at any rate I leveraged that job into a a introductory pharmaceutical job okay so this was a very small company called Reliant Pharmaceuticals okay they were launching a drug that was going to compete with the multi-billion doll pheno fibrate market and the big player in it was trior okay so once again small company not much coverage you know a lot of people were getting very discouraged by the fact that we didn't have formulary coverage on this product it was expensive you had to take it four times a day but I saw it as an opportunity because a lot of the people that I was working with in this pod left sure when they left it was just kind of me holding the bag right and they left and they left because of the fear that it's not on formul right exactly exactly but I saw it as an opportunity I saw it okay if all these people have left because they're scared that they're not going to be able to get these sales what do I have to do to just move the needle just a little bit right because that's really all we had to do we launched this product it was kind of a chary product all I have to do is move the needle a little bit so I identified the largest pH vibrate user within my little area kind of cone of of of work I had to deal with and I went into his office every single week and every single week he told me the same thing he said hey man I I'm writing for this other fena fibrate man I'm I'm I'm not going to write your your addendum to try to get triglycerides down and I said I understand that but check the data out listen to this listen to this you know person's testimonial on on how it benefited their patient and just resiliency day after day after day I went in there or week after week and then finally it was like the fifth or sixth month and the doctor looked at me he said hey man look I told you I'm not going to write this thing I said I know I know he's like but you know what you've been good to me you've been good to my staff you you've continued to come in here your perseverance I admire I'll give you a shot right and what ended up happening this drug was actually really good for his patients it was able to be an dend them to their Statin use so he's able to take out the phena fibrate put this more of a natural kind of uh medication it was an omega-3 fatty acid highly condensed form of Omega-3s to reduce triglycerides he loved it his patients loved it and I got over 50% of of his pheno fibrate business so early on in my career I realized that if there's an obstacle away or if there's if there's something that saying you can't do this it's an opportunity it's not going to be easy it's not going to be something that that's going to happen overnight but if you're diligent with it if you're if you persevere if you have perseverance then then you'll be successful and that's the kind of mindset that you have to have within device you really do because there's going to be so many people telling you no you can't do this or no you can't bring this in here but as long as you understand the rules as long as you understand kind of how to not get kicked out of your hospital right but to to to push your agenda as much as you can and to align yourself with people who understand that Vision as well and what I mean by that is your customer right your Champion then then the sky's the limit hey the see see there it is right there then the sky the limit you know you're you're absolutely right this is something that there's no other way to think in medical devices if you want to be successful there's no in my in my opinion there's no way think in any kind of healthcare sales but I would even say that just in life in general right right problems are opportunities right um and and if you approach life that way you're going to have a a much better time managing life than if you have if you handle it any other way and of course if you approach medical device sales this way then you're setting yourself up for Success absolutely let me tell you this Samuel if I didn't do that if I hadn't if I hadn't gotten that success within Pharmaceutical I couldn't have leveraged that solo success when I was trying to get into medical device cuz that's what I leaned on I said I wasn't in a pod I was by myself I'm not like a regular pharmaceutical rep I didn't work for the larger company like a fizer or glao you know I didn't have people that I was leaning on this was all me and at the end of the day that's what medical device companies are looking for to show know that you as an individual can impact business can grow revenue and can be self-starting as an individual facts now when you mened medical device what was the you know what type of field did you enter um yeah talk to us man what' you get into yeah so I was a wound closure specialist video which is now which is now metronic okay so what I was in charge you want to talk about a tough job so what I was in charge of doing is bringing the cidian suture into Hospitals now a lot of your listeners will probably understand it the only real suture that's in hospitals is ethon wow Johnson and Johnson right but we did have a value we did have a a price play that we did with it and this that and the other but you're talking about probably 90% of the physician Community was trained on ethon sutur bring your product into a hospital like no stop and don't was very very difficult yeah very very difficult but I was fortunate enough to be a part of a launch of a product called vlock okay and what vlock was was a very revolutionary look at suture okay okay it was something that didn't really have a category on a contract and it was something that provided um an enormous benefit for a very specific kind of surgeon okay so what I mean by that is we launched to go to Plastics because the suture is a regular suture but as it's going through the skin it's closing as it's going okay so it gives an interrupted style or sorry interrupted style approach but a running speed got so when we were thinking about Market penetration we said okay Plastics would be a good thing because they do so many sutures they do abdomino plasties and from a revenue standpoint it would turn the needle but Plastics didn't have any power in the hospital you know they they they just didn't have the cloud so we said okay who has the cloud so at this time it was like 2016 time frame 2017 the ones that had the clout were the robotic surgeons because the hospital wanted to get the guys on the robot because they were told if you do enough cases on the robot you'll make your money back so whatever the robotic surgeons wanted they got wow so even even if this was off contract or whatever nobody cared so was this a initiative or was this something that you discovered what's that was this was focusing on the robotic surgeons a company initiative or was that something that you discovered well I can't I can't take all the credit right I can't take all the credit Plastics was a company initiative and then this idea of where where does the power lie we started realizing that the robotic surgeons that's where the power lie right so I was just a little peon at this time right I was like yes sir I'll I'll go I'll go talk to these folks right so we targeted gyn's and neurology and the really cool aspect of medical device is you you're you don't really think it can happen but you can absolutely transform the way surgery is done for the rest of time right so what this suture did is it gave the power to both Urological surgeons and gynecological surgeons that were having trouble doing their suturing within the robotic kind of environment it gave them the speed that they were looking for but also the security that they were looking for like think about a a robotic prostectomy when you take out the bladder neck and the urethra you really need something that's going to connect those two structures because if you don't have a good connection at those structures you have you um uh continency issues you have sexual performance issues and it gave them the confidence and the speed to do that in a much faster fashion and now vlock and this Barb suture category is the gold standard in robotic surgery wow wow that's awesome to be a part of that let me ask you you know when this was when this was being introduced you know what I'm sure a lot of things contributed but what would you say the biggest Catalyst was was it that it was so obvious this is going to change the game that providers were just the moment you sat down with them to show them they were like oh my goodness or was it more of you found a key opinion leader and you found key opin throughout the country and you kind of drove that effort you know what would you say was like the big I know all of it was done but what was the biggest most significant differentiator in bringing this and making this uh this vlock the thing the thing to have and do yeah so so we kind of did the ladder right we concentrated on key opinion leaders and tried to develop that relationship right but it was almost organic these folks started using it and we didn't really even have to necessarily tell them to use it but then you started having thought leaders use it so now our now our talk track when we got into the office was hey I realized you did your residency at blah blah blah well you know the guy that you learned under he's now embracing hey come on man I love it I love it oh my goodness that's you know what I'm saying so when you hear your teacher yeah it's like okay get on board that's wonderful okay okay I love it man all right you got to tell us now I mean so so real quick so then you're killing it in Pharma you Leever into met device you're killing in device and and you lever that into Data we need to know what was the moment what was happen were you making dinner were you out with family you said you know everything's going in the direction of data if I get on that side of things my life will just expand happen that's a great question um it really came from you know I was in the industry for 10 years I was in the O for 10 years yes waking up at 4 in the morning to to be at surgery you know three hour drive at and then I was in a market development role which was which was really cool it was with tlex surgical but I just realized I was getting into my later 30s and I said you know what I don't necessarily want to be carrying this bag into to the O when I'm 50 years old sure and I I think that there's got to be something out there that combined an element of technology and the knowledge that I've gained over these 10 years there there's got to be something I didn't even know it was data right sure so I saw this position for director of strategic accounts with premere and I said I don't I don't I don't know what that is you know it says something about data in there and this was early 2019 and I applied and I and in the interview process I was real I said hey look I I don't want to be you know not transparent here I don't know this data field I really don't I I don't I haven't been in it I'm not a tech guy you know and they said don't worry about that the knowledge that you have of medical device is the critical part here because when you're talking with the clients you know their pain points because you've been there right know their pain points because you've been in those shoes and that credibility and that that ability to um mirror what the client is feeling and thinking that's the value that we want you to bring We'll train you on all the other stuff yeah but that stuff that you have in your brain that's gold wow wow man that's that's amazing um okay so 2019 you've been doing this now for a number of years you you have a level of expertise in it uh you're you're you're you're giving insight to companies that they just they couldn't be more grateful for you're ins to health networks that they couldn't be more grateful for you need to tell us how you make it all happen man what's what's the routine here you you waking up at at at 4 in the morning and straight to the gym and then how how you know do you got a family do you have kids like how do you how do you make this all work yeah so so I got a busy household right you know I've an eight-year-old I have a wife that really likes a lot of things right I have a 20-year-old at the University of Kentucky go cats even though I'm a VA fan I I I still support my son um it's about mindset Samuel it's about waking up in the morning and and doing different things that put you in the right mindset right that if you're H if you're feeling negative you know listen to a positive affirmation you know something on YouTube sure right you know just get yourself in the right mindset that say you know what maybe something isn't happening exactly the way that I want but I'm going to be positive about it because if I put that energy into the universe good things are going to come back to me fact you know and and it's it's taking me years right Samuel to develop that I mean it's taking me years to understand that that the energy that you put out there is so important not just in preparation but when you're with that client yeah you know that passion that you bring is going to make them passionate but that passionate also that passion also has to be regulated you also have to have a self-awareness of that passion that you're not taking it into the wrong meeting you're not taking it into the wrong audience so going back to what you say I like to I like to have positive you know podcasts or positive affirmations on YouTube I like to work out early right you know I truly believe in a mind and body kind of connection and and then just get at it man just just get at it for me I'm all remote I'm I'm 100% remote so I go into my office I close my door I put on my music as far as like a chill you know just maybe some electronic music but that's CH not too pumped up it just like gets you on that right wavelink and then just get at it man you know just just be inent intentful on what you're doing making sure that you're bringing value to every customer interaction that you have and then just try to do the best that you can do for the position that you have and then leave it all out in the field man you know that's kind of how I go about it come on man all right you know this was fantastic Adam uh we're gon we're gonna wrap it up with our lightning round okay um this is man I love everything you're doing are you ready for the lightning round hey let's go let's you got I'm gonna ask you four questions you got less than 10 seconds to answer them first question being what is the best book you've read in the last six months um I'm reading it right now but I can't remember the title it's it's a manifesting book it's a manifesting book yes it's a book about manifest oh what what's it called it's a book about manifesting I can't remember the title everybody it will be in the show notes we will get that title sooner or later and it will in the show notes all right next question what's the best TV uh TV show or movie you've seen in the last six months six months um oh six months there's so many um uh T movie I'm trying to think man I I like to stream a lot I know I'm running out of time [Laughter] here man you're putting me on this I was thinking Game of Thrones but that was way more than that was a long time ago unless you're watching the reruns it is what it is if you're watching G re it is I know what it was new the new season of curvier enthusiasm I love Larry David I love I didn't even know that show's still going on wow okay okay curvy I love it I'll take it all right um best meal you've had with the restaurant and item best meal you've had in the last six months last six months um okay um God I know it was here in Charlotte ah man okay I can't remember that one but I do remember this one it was in Chicago um uh Maple and Ash in Chicago Maple and Nash what what was the item Maple and Ash Maple and Ash what was the item it was a prefixed menu uh for my birthday and it's it's all kinds of courses they just bring it all to you you don't even order off yeah yeah Chicago where in Chicago um I'm not too familiar with Chicago I know there's only one yeah it's just like yeah there's only one as far as okay okay that's all right downtown I know it's downtown okay okay noted all right and then last question best experience you've had in the last six months being on this podcast hey oh wow wow that was the first that was the first I'll take you man I'll take you hey Adam it was awesome spend this time with you uh we're excited about all the things you're doing out there keep making amazing moves sharing that dat with the world and thank you again for being on the medical sales podcast yeah thank you for the opportunity Samuel appreciate it and that was Adam Mustafa and fantastic stuff right you know I I love the whole portion about when he was talking about how when something is is being highly regulated and and rules and and it just seems like it's going to be really difficult to navigate in that space instead of running from it and looking for where you can find more freedom run to it Master it learn it understand it and then truly operate with all the freedom you need without any competitors even coming close I think that's a that's a beautiful approach not to just Healthcare sales but that's a beautiful approach to life when you are find yourself in a challenging situation and you run to really trying to understand how to navigate within it and then become a powerful player you really set yourself apart because everyone else is going to want to run the way you want it to run but because you superseded past that you you positioned yourself in almost an Untouchable space and and I think that's that's always going to serve you and of course that's going to serve you tremendously in healthcare sales so maybe you listen to this episode and you think to yourself wow you know I want to do what Adam is doing one day or or I loved what Adam was talking about I want to take advantage of the same opportunities or wow after listening to this I realized that yes this is exactly more want to be I want to be in healthcare sales then you already know what I'm going to say make sure you visit evolv success.com select the application fill it out schedule some time with one of our count Executives and let's get you to exactly where you want to be as always we do our best to bring you guests that are doing things differently in the medical sales space so make sure you tune in next week for another episode of the medical sales podcast