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I broke in my head I'm just a job in your head son you made me poke in my head this is an age of disruption of profound revolutionary change what we're really asking ministers is to empower the ambassadors the only thing that you really push forth is the truth you don't see many women represented when it comes to the decisions as to how to handle the pandemic sure [Music] good afternoon I'm Eva white and I'm the editor of Politico Europe's technology and competition news service you are watching Politico live the live extension of politico's unbiased journalism and we're coming to you today from Auto World in the heart of Brussels in a few minutes we'll be welcoming the European commission's vice president for values and transparency who usually lives up to her title by speaking very frankly and very openly we need to hear some Frank and open discussion on the challenges Europe faces with its digital goals as we reach the halfway point in the digital decade we know the aims to see more people more companies and more Public Services comfortably taking advantage of all the best the digital world can offer we know the challenges that networks need to be better faster safer and more sustainable this is a time to be frank about what's going well and what needs to be done better the EU has been putting a vast amount of digital regulation on its books in the last few years that is now finally being enforced we'll be hearing from European lawmakers about how well they see Europe on the path to the digital decade but it's also a time to be open about how we address New Challenges generative AI has exploded in the past year we'll talk about how policy makers are and should be tackling new risks and opportunities we also have some older challenges still to tackle the power of big Tech over many parts the digital economy and we'll be talking about how the digital markets act plans to set limits on some powerful Tech Giants first some housekeeping remarks we'd like to thank our sponsor Qualcomm for making this event possible thank you to all of you for listening here in this room and online we love debate and we'd like to make this event as interactive as possible you can tweet or access using at livepolitico with the hashtag EU digital transformation you can also ask questions through the slido platform also using the hashtag EU digital transformation please tell us who you are with your name and organization so we can be as transparent as possible for our viewers and panelists we're just about ready to go we'll now hear some opening remarks from our sponsor Qualcomm senior vice president and head of government Affairs for Europe the Middle East and Africa Wasim chobachi over to you Russian [Applause] thank you thank you IFA and I would like to thank Politico for bringing us together today for this important event important because we are in a journey of profound transformation that's been said a digital one a digital transformation that's permeating all dimensions of Our Lives in Europe This transformation is Guided by concrete targets the so-called digital decade targets they specify objectives when it comes to infrastructure skills digital transformation of Industries as well as public services and it's no exaggeration to say that the way Europe will achieve those targets by 2030 will determine its future Global rule and geopolitical influence so how is Europe doing halfway through the digital decade that's the question that we are being asked today and to which we'll try to bring some answers I think we can look at this from three metrics Supply demand and ecosystems let me start with Supply and talk about three critical components three building blocks to the digital transformation chips infrastructure and standards first chips the EU chips Acts chips Act is actually a great success we upload its adoption we are starting to see key investments in production in design in research and skills across Europe all of which will help create a more resilient more balanced and more Diversified Global Supply Chain and there is certainly more work to be done and one of the panels will address this issue but as we move forward we should make sure that the Investments that are made are made in all kinds of process nodes from leading to mature to cover the whole range of chips that will be needed in the future second infrastructure here Europe is unfortunately still trailing other countries in 5G rollout let me share two data points today half of the world's 5G base stations are deployed in China and 5G availability in the US is four to five times higher than in Europe EU operators are facing today a significant investment challenge to meet the demand this is down to high deployment cost coupled with low returns so we need more investments in 5G and we need more scale across the EU that's why we see we support a telecom's new deal a new deal that can change the existing Market paradigm we are therefore very encouraged to hear about a new telecoms act proposal by the commission to be coming soon we need this act we desperately need it to drive the much needed investments into world's best infrastructure and change the way the market is structured today third standards 5G standardization competence is described around the world as a platform for technological sovereignty today Europe holds a leading position and it's a fact this leadership should and can be maintained only and only if the incentives for companies to continue to invest in long-term r d and shape standards globally are preserved this is even more important as we are currently moving into 6G development with the initial Global standardization to start as early as 2025. so we call on European the European Parliament the council and the commission to really prioritize this objective when looking at the new proposed regulation on standard essential patents let me now move to demand or in other words technology adoption and here I would like to take the case of AI that would be addressed also in one of the of the panels it's clear that AI has quickly become one of the most significant Technologies of our time and with generative AI we're witnessing an impressive level of innovation the benefits the benefits for the digital transformation and thus for the European digital decade are significant but there are also potential negative impacts as we all know so trust would be key to drive technology adoption and Trust in the technology by the users whether these users are individuals public services or corporations how can trust be built trust is built through technology designed by companies and rules set by governments and usually both work hand in hand on the regulatory front the EU has taken the lead in developing the AI Act we welcome the risk-based approach that has been pursued regulating the technology itself would have stifled The Innovation and reduced investment critical investments in Europe Global alignments on the rules in the G7 in particular even if complicated would be helpful for the industry to have effective guard rails in place to continue to innovate safely on the technology front we as Qualcomm are committed to be working with industry partners and policy makers on a responsible AI we are designing the technology in a way that will enable enhanced privacy and security two key drivers for trust we're integrating intelligence including gen AI models on devices like cars smartphones computers and Industrial machines personal or proprietary Enterprise information can be then be treated locally and remain private and secure this will enable greater opportunities for local innovation and drive customized use cases across ecosystems and that lead me leads me to my last Point ecosystems succeeding the digital transformation requires companies to come together to partner to innovate to interconnect creating new ecosystems in so many sectors users win when those digital ecosystems are built on the foundation of openness this is why the digital Market act the dma was so much needed and is so important because buying a phone a computer or a car shouldn't lock a consumer into one ecosystem users should be able to freely choose their devices their services and their apps users should be able to communicate with each other regardless of the devices they're using the messaging app or the mobile operator this openness which is based on interoperability and portability has always been the foundation of telecommunication we believe that dma should uphold these principles in particular now that we're moving from a telecom Centric to a digital driven world consumers are not expecting anything less when public services are digitized and industries are transformed and the world is watching what's next another important topic that will be addressed by the panels and that's how the EU will enforce the dma and how users will actually benefit in practice let me conclude by saying that it's really an exciting time to be part of this European digital decade Journey a very Dynamic one a journey that will change our lives in a way we understand now and in others we haven't yet imagined in the coming few hours will he will have the privilege of hearing from vice president turova leading members of the European Parliament the European commission and key technology and policy experts and I'm sure this conversation will be enlightening enlightening or where we stand now and what to expect in the future thank you for listening to me and I hope you will enjoy a great event thank you I'm a tech reporter for Politico and now we're going to move on to our interview with uh vice president Vera Yoruba if you can come here [Applause] thanks for being with us today I don't think she needs an introduction but let's still do it uh Vera eurova your vice president for value and transparency and pretty recently you've also taken over digital for Margaret West dagger who's on leave at the moment so let's start right off Maria Gabrielle friends Timmerman have all left the commission are you next to jump ship the last one will switch off let me see of course I am ready to continue till the end and it's not easy to continue after Margaret westagra I wanted to say that I I am using her shoes but she would probably come today in Skechers so uh yes so we we want to continue all the work which also with the vice president uh described uh till the end of this commission but also to uh of course prepare the ground for the continuation because digital decade is uh the big big strategy important strategy uh where The Final Countdown will be done in 2030 so of course there is a lot of uh work ahead of us ahead of our followers and my role before when I was it was sounds strange only the vice president for values and transparency was to push people into this agenda I was always asking where are the people where where are the interests of each individual and it was already my job during the promotion of the gdpr because it was exactly the same story that we wanted to give the power back to the hands of each individual so that you agreed on a set of targets for 2030 last year including doubling the number of unicorns European unicorns and such targets were almost at the end of 2023 countries will now given their first report do you genuinely believe that countries will manage to reach these very ambitious targets if I say I don't believe in it it would either mean that the member states are not capable enough or that we set the Targets in our own way yeah imagine the logic behind that no I believe I believe that if we push and if we cooperate because this is mainly about cooperation we might achieve the targets which are very demanding because the strategy is very broad it covers uh infrastructure Innovations people the general public and the expert side so I think that it is realistic but we have to push push hard and go go quicker there's one target that I want to bring up and that's 5G so basically you want all cities to have 5gs by 2030. and so you have a the industry telecoms industry that says they don't have enough funding and then on top of that the commission has been pushing EU capitals to restrict or ban high-risk vendors of 5G components like Huawei or ZTE so you know can we have both can we have 5G in cities populated areas in 2030 but also by saying you know deal with like you know this lack of funding and don't use the specific vendors I think these things are not in in contradiction because what we want is 5G which is secure which is safe so that's why we came with the toolkit for secure 5G which we want the member states to follow and as far as I remember the data or the the the facts from June this year 23 member states adapted uh their legislation towards uh uh the the goals in in the toolkit and only 10 are properly implementing it so there is a gap still and as for the the financing of course we are looking into whether there is a fair uh business model in in the EU and whether there will be enough you know funding for that it's true that the the commission the EU is going to be the a key investor in in these Technologies when you look at how much we have in the recovery funding it's uh The Benchmark of 20 percent at least uh which should go to digital Technologies and be part of it is the in the financing of of infrastructure then you can see that we are leading this but of course we also need the private sector and Telecommunications to to come come along you mentioned a fair business model there's been a debate in this in Brussels for quite a few months even longer than that actually um about you know telecom companies saying um online platforms should contribute through Levy um what do you think about this idea now that you're this new vice president on yeah yeah I will repeat what Margaret had said some several months ago that we need to have the facts right and the data and that's why I am now waiting for the study which I think should be already completed where we will we will see the the fresh data uh who pays what and how much the Telecommunications need and thought but uh it's the fair distribution of of the funding of the finance so we will consider the the way forward so what's the timeline for this for this study and for well you can you imagine this commission has a very short timeline for everything so we we are now going to to look into that and and work on it so that's how we are able to propose something before the end of the Monday well I hope so all right but as I said we are now looking at the data okay um let's move on to another Hot Topic and that's generative AI uh technology has lots of promises including to accelerate the the to make vaccines and Medicine in general but also some risks for disinformation or cyber attacks your meeting tomorrow with executive of openai the U.S company behind uh chargpt that was banned at one point in in Italy because of gdpr infringements and there's different ongoing investigations around that they're also behind a generated image tool dally um the sort of tools that can potentially also be used or misused by some actors um what do you want to tell them what's on the agenda well I want to hear from the visitor how they want to guarantee the safety of the technology because as you know I wanted the technological developers to once they developed the the AI new tools uh at the same time to develop develop the tools which will minimize the risks so I think that the the discussion will be about the risks and also I think I will have an opportunity to describe how we understand risk and how we uh how we also uh categorize the risks in the AI act which is in a mature stage of of negotiations now in the dialogue so we will compare notes and I will uh I'm it's always fascinating to to listen to the managers of big Tech because they are always coming with new things and what I always ask them okay maybe they might be good for people what but uh how uh are you ready uh to to mitigate the risks which might come along have you yourself tried child GPT and trying to with your name to see whatever I didn't dare to do that no I haven't checked if there's any misinformation about you out there well uh you know I I canceled my Facebook account some time ago and I did it as a demonstration of I don't agree with that this is full of hatred and violence and if I cancel my Facebook account there will be less violence in Europe but uh no I didn't I didn't try it but uh I think that it it might be useful but again we we have to address it in the legislation and with the generative AI this is such a fascinating illustration how fast the Technologies go and how slow the legislative process is and this is not a criticism it was always the same thing that uh manifest Technologies and law and uh we were always catching up in in preparing the rules for for the world of Technologies but here the generative AI caught us still in the middle of the of the work on the AI act so now uh there is a window of opportunity for us still in the dialogue phase to add the chapter which will cover the generative AI you actually back in June asked for some of these uh company generating um AI boosted uh text or images to to label their content as part of the the code of practice of disinformation um have any of these uh company followed through is it going fast enough uh what I wanted was to create the the task force or some some expert group which will work on the feasible technological feasible uh and uh still purposeful solution and my plea was very simple uh when the people read or see the machine production they should know that this is machine production that this is not the uh the result of the creativity and work of real people here comes my fundamental rights agenda yeah that I believe that we should not give the AI tools uh the same rights which the people have we have developed a battery of a broad spectrum of human rights for the human beings so now I think we should be very Vigilant and not to give the same rights to the machines because then we might at some moment start losing the competition does it sound dystopic it is a bit but no my Believers was very simple we want the people to understand that what they read is the production of AI and to be aware of it and to then to make a choice for instance whether to believe it or not and I know you know I also it it was said within the discussion on how to more efficiently fight against this information and for me the biggest nightmare is when this information is using or the disinformers those who are organizing the campaigns are using the AI tools especially in pre-electrical campaigns do you have any fears for the EU elections that such tools could be used and are we will we be ready enough to make sure they're not used to disrupt elections well I will give you a little a little portion of optimism I think that with Digital Services act we are better equipped against the the strong and and manipulative campaigning uh we have this week elections in Slovakia soon elections in Poland so we will see whether there is already some change visible uh in in the way the how the platforms are functioning I never wanted the platforms like like Facebook and Google to moderate the political debate in the EU contrary I was always telling them do not push your nose into the political matters in the EU but at the same time we see so many very uh dangerous Trends especially as I said the combination of well-targeted and well-designed massive disinformation campaigns during the Electoral electoral time that uh we we need to be able to counter that but not by censorship but rather by the fact checking and invitation of the broad Society to take care of the facts including the Independent Media so we we really want the whole of society approach which is I think very typical feature of the code of practice against this information with a code of practice the new results are actually coming out tomorrow as to how platforms have been platforms and other signatories have been doing can you tell us a bit more about um what it seems like it's has happened in the last six months uh my expectations already were before the first uh deadline or first first moment of getting the first report was that we will be able to use the data from the signatories so that to do a proper analysis on where we are with impact impact of this information on the society and for me to get the data from from Google and other signatories and I'm happy they are in you know Twitter uh left but uh we have all the big big uh players on board so for me it's important to see how many accounts they suspended or how much money uh was stopped for the traditional this this information channels but for me what's important is to be able to measure the impact on the society and whether what we are doing whether it has some positive impact or what's the trend how of course also how the Russian propaganda is gaining ground uh whether they are successful because we are in information War so it's the first thing whether we will get high quality data which will enable us to read more about the reality and about the trend the second thing is I I am repeating again and again that we don't have only three or four dominant languages in the EU we have 24. and thought especially the smaller languages Central and East to European languages they have been neglected horribly in the past and paradoxically maybe not paradoxically but it's a bad coincidence that especially these languages and these countries are under uh intense pressure from from Russia now so we want the signatories to uh to act in in all the languages in the same same way there is one platform that is known to carry misinformation and disinformation and that's telegram telegram is not in the code of practice of disinformation and has not been designated as a very large online platform under the GSA meaning you know it doesn't have that many obligations to follow in terms of countering disinformation um what's next what is the commission planning to do with that well I would like to have telegram on board but obviously there is no appetite from telegram site so we have to accept that they are doing what they are doing sometimes I have to say the telegram is also the source of objective information especially from the Ukrainian Battlefield and from Russia so uh it's it's a mixture of of this information but also of the information which we might trust because there is a double check from from the Independent Media so what what can we do we we cannot do much uh of course the invitation to the court of practice still is valid but I don't see any signs and on the DSA you you don't have the numbers to designate the platform well in case they have more than 45 million users in the EU which obviously they don't then we will we will of course designate them okay all right on still but there are also obligations for smaller ones right yeah so they are not off the hook in the EU yeah on the TSA um it became it came into Force for very large one platforms and search engines just a month ago when can we expect the first investigations I cannot tell you the invitation the investigation is purely independent so you have no idea I have many ideas but that you cannot share with us but as the moderator the beginning said that I always am so open uh sometimes there are some troubles afterwards so I think that the uh the experts we have now in the commission and we are completing the team of course they will I think they are focusing on those who can really do big harm and who might be the first ones but I remember very well when we started with gdpr we could not say that the small ones are safe and the big ones aren't they are dangerous yeah so of course there will be own findings there will be notifications coming to the commission and so the the professionals will do their job independently to go back to Ai and the international Forum um the EU is working on its own law but it's part of a global discussion around around the world and there's some push to establish different mechanisms of well different mechanisms of global governance and one of the countries leading that pushes the United Kingdom the UK with its AI Summit in November um will you be going we are considering uh we have received our invitation which might mean that some representative of the commission will go at which level and who concretely we have to decide still all right could that be you there's someone else I love London is it in London it is I am a former guide to London I took many Czech tourists there so I might be I might even be sentimental there which might not be a good mood for the negotiations [Laughter] sounds good um China is also at the center of this discussion also because um I mean you're just back from Beijing for the EU China digital dialogue and Beijing has also been invited but China has been invited by the UK for its AI Summit um do you do you agree with that do you think China even though it's been using AI for a fairly repressive measures like surveilling its population and its minority a week or minority do you think it should still be part of the global governance on AI I had to answer this question to myself before I go into Beijing I am not a formal guide to Beijing Beijing so it was not the feelings were different but I believe that President uzola Van Der lion was very clear and is right that we have to keep the channels open of course we insist that we are mainly rivals in this world of digital Technologies we have totally different concepts our concept of Human Rights differs extremely much from from the concept which is applied by the the Chinese state but still it's better to speak to each other and it's it's better to understand where they are going so that's why I also wanted to go to China and speak to the relevant people there to understand better I think it's the same goal which the organizers of the the UK Summit have in mind so you would have invited China as well if you've done this Summit I am not organizing such Summit but if you were to organize one for them well we are not organizing that and at the same time we are really intensively focusing on G7 work instead of this this Global Endeavor uh if going global I believe that the United Nations are are good address to do that to organize some some Global effort to agree on the global AI principles for G7 the work is uh rather Advanced we are working on the code of conduct for AI which uh should be accompanied by the principles for AI uh one of the strands of work is more focused on uh the technological innovators or for them and the other is more societal thing and as I said we are quite Advanced we have a very good common understanding on what should be under the ethics standards for AI I should go to Kyoto at the beginning of October when where we could continue the discussion on AI principles and several other things there's many different discussions and codes of conducts of practice of you know on initiatives around AI around the world who's really leading the discussion who's pushing forward their vision of AI I believe that it's the EU which is advanced we already in 2009 18 we had the first ethics standards and we had the luxury of being able to wait for the proper moment to design the heart legislation why because we already had gdpr and protection of privacy of individual people it's it's a big uh pillar or essential pillar of everything we do on AI so we started soon I think that for generally speaking when it comes to digital Technologies and AI in Europe we have the the right instincts to at least for regulation because we we really try hard to come with the rules which are meaningful which are proportionate which will not kill Innovations which will be technologically feasible and which will also address what the vice president said the need to keep the trust of people and I would speak about the people I would add the understanding of people what's going on you say you're trying to not kill Innovation either but all of the large language models all the big AI Innovations everyone's raving about um none of them seem to be coming from the EU instead what we're seeing is Google that has to delay the launch of its own AI chatbot Bard because of all these regulation and some smaller companies I'm assuming that are trying to figure out how to make it sure that they won't get a major privacy fine how do you make sure that innovation in Europe is not hindered well I spoke to big people from the big ones so with all the all the key managers of all the key big Tech and none of them told me we will not deliver some some technologies in the EU they just know that it might be under stricter supervision and that the rules and the obligations will be higher than some somewhere else but they cannot uh just skip the EU because it's a huge Market where they they make big money we're reaching the N overtime but I still want you uh to talk a little bit more about one a topic that's close to you I think is the European media Freedom Act and um recently last week the French police arrested and detained for about almost two days the journalists who reported on leaked document about a joint French and Egyptian spy operation um could the French law enforcement do this under the European media Freedom Act are easy to say because I don't know the details about the of the case and we we never make comments on ongoing investigations but I will give you the answer regarding the media Freedom Act because we want it to protect the journalists against spying against the use of interception like and then tools like like Vegas or a predator we are prohibiting in the media Freedom Act uh the push from the states for disclosing the info information sources so so I think that in after I I will say after not in case of after the media Freedom will be in force I hope in a good shape the negotiations are starting now uh then the journalists will be much better protected against these pressures from the state very last question you've already had two mandates with the European commission is there a third one for you who said it enough is enough so it's a no no that's not going back to Czech politics I don't know yet you know after 10 years uh maybe one could have some kind of political detox just just to remain normal [Applause] Running Out of Time thank you so much for spending some time with us today out of your busy schedule vice president for the European commission thank you to all of us thank you you will not have a fireside chat about insights from the European Parliament Five Years on the path to digital decade with my great colleague cyber security reporter Antoinette rusi thank you to all of you oops