Streamline HR Processes with Full Life Cycle Sales for HR

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hey let me introduce you my friend and colleague peter turkish peter has a ton of experience has been an HR professional for over 30 years started his his guidance degree in in having to do with he got his MBA but he's also has a degree in computing to do with computer science you can see what what I know about Peter a chartered occupational psychologist takes great pride in that but most importantly Peter's been both internal as HRD for the UK's was the UK's largest employer the post office and Royal Mail when I first met Peter in early 2000 he was a customer of on the mark and when he left the Royal Mail in 2008 2009 he joined on the mark I guess our economy can only last so long and and we've been working together ever since Peter is I'm proud to say as a certified organization design professional I'll talk more about how do you how might some of you become I get that certification at the end of the webinar but anyway it's delight to be with Peter and do this webinar together x mark you know me almost as well as I know myself I'll introduce my my colleague mark Marcus Kowal asam mark as he said I met when I was a customer of his back in 2000 and you know as the para phrasing the G letter that I liked you so much so joining the company Mark mark started otm where he says 1990 on the slide I always thought it was late eighties but Mark's probably got more experience in organization redesign than probably anybody else in the planet you can see on their 450 redesigns across 35 countries that's covered most industries most functions everything from from small organizations to big multinational mergers and acquisitions on top of that Marc's trained over 5,000 people in the in the on the mark methodology and again market which is a methodology I I learnt of the methodologies that helped me get my certification as a professional professional the only other thing I would say as you're looking at this slide some of you know us and would have spotted that the slides have been slightly stretched so we have been made much thinner and most taller than that we're not actually are but other than that everything's good over to you mark thanks Peter and Peter if you could go forward so what we want to cover today is an alternative a more modern alternative for an HR operating model that's built around the employee experience I want to highlight you're going to see two acronyms or two abbreviations and they're a X for employee experience you're going to see MTM that for moments that matter and you'll also see CX for the customer experience as we go through this we have the honor of developing this model collaboratively with a customer who will remain nameless as we go through this but nonetheless this is built on real-world experience and what we want to be able to do is share that with you because as you'll see in just a minute is the predominant operating model for HR is over X 3 box model which is what I would say is has served its purpose but is way out of date and is and I'll explain that in a little bit more detail we're going to set the context and we'll go through the actual operating model for HR what does it look like and we'll talk a little bit about how we did it and provide some wisdoms and tips along the way before you go to the next slide it would be really useful for you guys for people attending if you could type in anything that you want us to cover as we go through this so feel free to contribute down through the chat box all right please Peter a little bit about Lamarck Peter said it we've been in business over 30 years and have been around the block I guess I'm not our first rodeo and what we do is all about ensuring an operating model is fit for purpose one of the things that distinguishes us between everyone else is doing this work is we do this work completely collaboratively some of you might be familiar with different methodologies collaborative methodologies like call scale change and participative design and open space and we use all of those to basically lead an organization or function through redesigning itself starting with the leadership team we'll talk more about that this gives you a sense of where we've left our mark to date I anticipate before leaving this planet that we'll have more on the mark logos in more areas around around the world and look forward to leaving our mark in future places one of the things speaking of leaving our mark I do want to dedicate our webinar to our colleague Stuart Wiggum Stuart Wiggum worked with us for a couple years and on the mark and I've worked with Stuart as a board member on the European organisation design forum and the organization to font design form in the US Stuart passed away before the end of the year and I just want to shout out to Stuart and and as we go through this just honor him for those of you who knew Stuart anyway let's move on so I first want to start to talk about what there are many firms out there doing organization design and most of the firm's that do this work do what I call strategic or what Peter and I refer to strategic design as they might do pretty pictures and figure out how to organize people around structure but we use the term operating model we use it very deliberately in an operating model if you think about in an organization its day-to-day rhythm and drumbeat of both doing the work and how the work that's done and how the work gets managed we represent the operating model through our ot M applied star model which is based on Jay Galbraith work but as much what has much more rigor built into it but it's basically in essence an operating model is is it is the operation of blueprint based on the day-to-day operations of how a company or an organization or a function like AI HR brings value to its customers it includes all the practical elements including the work how you organize people around the work how that work gets managed and how those people then are reinforced and enable in terms of its HR processes so it's just something for you to keep in mind as we go through this let's move forward I want to don't read this please but I do want to highlight a couple things all of you probably remember the saying by Drucker and fields of culture eats strategy for breakfast while it's clever and it's real simple to roll off your tongue what I want to rec what I want to say is that neither culture or strategy matter much without a well-functioning operating model and so for us an operating model is even more fundamental because culture is an output of that operating model so for 15 20 years of dominant operating model for HR has been over X 3 box model and while it's served some very important purpose over the last 15 to 20 years such as helping HR add strategic value to the business work more strategically there are some significant shortfalls to the three box model which includes power struggles between business partners senators vac lenz the senator for depending on what you call it the Center for sustaining and maintaining payroll etc one of the things about the orc model is it significantly fragments the actual value stream of how of the value stream that work and the value that gets delivered to the organization and it and it drives in a lot of complication and expense and time and effort to basically manage work across those three pillars so one of the things you know with our customer is they said we don't want the three box model we want it we want to go beyond it and so if you think about the changes innovations that have occurred just in the HR field so for example thinking about the employee experience more the rise of HR analytics digitalization artificial intelligence employee self-service all these things have kind of come together and have started to put pressure on well why the three boss model and it's really what else is out there the other piece is is HR no matter how strategic you are and no matter how much is printed and Linkedin about the importance of HR s and investment HR remains a cost center always under commercial pressure to stay relevant and responsive so when we were working with this customer it was very important for them to kind of pay started we're talking about the customer experience and then if the light bulb went out and said well wait a sec what is it that a lot that HR at its core does and can we can we look at the employee experience and can we say what if what if we organized ourselves around this thing called the employee experience which both drives efficiency effectiveness and fungible use of HR resources what if we came up with something like that and so that's this model which was really as I said earlier a collaborative effort with us leading leave New York leading this design work but really it of our customer and all of their different iterations on potential operating models and so this is what we're gonna share with you today go ahead Peter okay thanks mark I just want to spend a little bit before before we get to the detail of the operating model itself and I'm sure of a number of you are waiting to see that so I apologize for not yet revealing it I just want to I think it's important that you that we all understand a little bit about the company in which this work is being done and that the I guess the point I'm going to make is there was nothing special about this company it was no different to lots of other companies other than it did have start to have a very clear focus on the direction it wanted HR to go in and that was driven by some things that were happening in the business at the time but but in saying that it doesn't mean that all those conditions have to be in place for an organization to take a redesign of its Asia off HR function in this direction so just a little bit of context let me just tell you a little bit about the size of the company it's not quite multinational but but it does cover large chunks of large chunks of Europe you can see from from the numbers on there quite a large organization with 80,000 employees it's got a retail presence which is met through about 1300 outlets across the jabra physic it covers in the ten countries it's covering it also has a fairly significant online presence and for its sector is reasonably profitable but but certainly had aims to be more profitable so that's really just giving you a feel for the size of the company directionally they done some work strategically on where they wanted to take the company as a whole and it set and had set a very clear direction for the company as Mark said and based around aligning its product and so his offerings to the customers experience so customers use their products in different ways at different times in their own life cycles so that the concept of a customer lifecycle we're starting to get fairly well embedded into the organization and as Mark said this was the trigger for HR to start to say can we follow the same directions as our company strategy when we think about how we're going to develop the HR operating model to support the company going forwards and this is what led them to saying we want to have an HR function that puts the employees at the heart and follows the employee experience so we want to align around the expert employee experience and align around a concept that they coined called the moments that matter and this was all about ensuring that customer effort that employees were fully aligned with the the different customer experiences that they wanted to serve through the business operating model and the other couple of things just hiding below all that there there was a desire to establish global function so you can see the words on there around and to optimize best practice where they could but also recognizing that they were never going to have best practice everywhere they just needed to decide where they wanted best practice and for their shared services of the transactional engine of HR to be low cost and delivering wherever they could across the whole enterprise and all countries so that was driving them very much towards a a model which had more more standardization in it and caused them to look a bit at and this is a very complicated slide but the message to take away from it and I saw a lot of you that work in HR will recognize it there's a huge amount of HR time in the current operating model was spent on admin and then focusing on particular bits of HR transactions and HR policies but but not really taking a holistic view across the piece and certainly not operating consistently across countries so in terms of that as a snapshot of the organization it was basically saying depending on which country you went in things were done differently depending in almost to some extent in which isn't this you went to things were done differently but actually HR spent a lot more time than the company wanted on on admin so it caused them to think a bit about if we want to organize around employee experience what are the what are the big moments that matter within the employee experience and again those of you that work in HCI will recognize these as a snapshot of a journey through an employee's life from attraction hiring onboarding becoming engaged with the organization performing developing and also ultimately departing so the the initial model and the initial criteria for designing the the the future HR function was based around those concepts of employee lifecycle and led to them doing some research amongst their own employees to drill into each of these points in the employee lifecycle more deeply and again though there's lots and lots of research that lived behind what that what became known as the moments that matter that this was getting employee data on what was happening currently at each of those moments that matter and what they really wanted in those moments that matter so they could start to build an operating model that delivered the the full end-to-end employee experience with the cut with the employee at the heart of the journey the the other thing that was looked at in a lot of detail was where they wanted where the company wanted to standardize activity and where they wanted to have variation and this is for those of you that have worked worked with us and those you've been on previous webinars you'll you'll recognize the an element of the OPM brand coming through here where we we spend we will always get our our customers to think quite hard about where they want to standardize work where they want to integrate work standardization being it's done the same way everywhere and integration being you're pulling that work together across different parts of the function in this case so integration doesn't necessarily mean centralization but it does mean that there is a mechanism in place that ensures that all the work across the geographies and across the brands in this organization were were integrated and basically what this if you cut to the chase on what that picture is telling you is there's a lot of work that they recognize they could put into their transaxle engine their service center so that they could focus to the the right hand side of the the dotted line they could focus on really being employee of truly employee centric on on those other areas and that those were that was an important piece of analysis for them to do to help them to decide what's going to be truly or as far as possible standardized versus what is going to be and therefore can be put into the per transaction engine rather than the the other parts on the right hand side which can which can be much more tailored and to some extent become more product specific or geographic specific so these were important pieces of foundational work that they had to do before or chose to do and we guided them to do before they went into any work on thinking about what the new operating model might look like and just just some just speed as I go ahead about yeah sorry if I can do up go back if you would mind I just want to highlight a couple things on this if you'll notice the yellow small yellow blobs on the right hand of your screen these were things that were very important what they call high strategic differentiators yet they were done differently a lot of variation all over across the company and if you start to think about what that means for a common employee experience or from for a common and repeatable customer experience from an HR perspective you can see that where they're all over the board so while these things were strategically important in terms of the employee experience you can connect it to the to the previous slide where Peter went through the different details of the employee experience you can see there was tremendous variation and that variation drives very different employee experiences across across the organization which is the last thing that they wanted the other thing that I'll add is in their preparation before they get before they were able to get to the detail concept design work and develop the concept that we're going to share with you they did all the other standard things that we do during our foundation work including design principles design criteria parameters constraints and and a whole other things not to mention a whole lot of stakeholder work because HR was actually out ahead of the rest of the business even though the business was going through quite the transformation HR and the C HR o had to make sure that he a completely locked in lockstep with the HR with the with the business leaders and the CEO Peter Karen man is asking a question how did you account for regional cultural differences in the ten different countries Peter you want to take down on or do you want to wait till you want to answer that now or do you want to wait I'll part answer it now that there were there was always a recognition that there was going to be cultural differences and there were going to be legal differences from from country to country but that had to be looked at in the context of the organization as a whole wanting to get greater standardization across HR so there was a lot of work at the detailed design level that went on to identify the the necessary variation that was needed from country to country and that was done HR process by HR process in that in the detailed design so it's a really important point that you you cannot standardize it would be very foolish to standardize one hundred percent across a different sets of geographies and different brands but recognizing that your strategic direction is towards standardization it's important that you look process by process and geography by geography and brand by brand to to look where they're where where variants is absolutely necessary and then allow the local design of that of the jobs and the processes to take account of that agreed variance so it has to happen I think I don't feel to add to that mark yeah I do well think about I Karen it's a really good question and think about it as the 80/20 rule is that 80 percent maybe 75 percent but you'll get that you get the idea is that they're there if you started with their current state everything was done differently and it's quite common when you have different businesses in different countries everyone uses as a defense mechanism oh we're different we're really different well our experiences yeah you're different all right but nobody's that different nobody's 100% different and and and so in this mall and what they did is basically made the assumption that 7080 percent is going to be common and then we needed to leave space for what we call localization and you'll see and you'll you'll see how that plays out here in a second but that's and it's very important what Peter said in terms of thinking about the work and thinking about the legal and compliance nature of things based on country to country take into account HR law is quite different across across the European countries as well as you know you can have us you can have North America you can have the different states all have slightly variation in their laws which have to be met but overall you're not going to get a hundred percent variation and you have to kind of cut through that defense mechanism that were completely unique which is also part of the challenge just a final point on that before I move on if you look at the picture that's in front in front of is you'll see that the er/ir blobs for want of a better description are not high on the standardization scale and that's a recognition that geography by geography and brand by brand there's going to be local variation so the lower down something is on this two-by-two the more local variation was going to be allowed up here before you go on Aundre it's good good good to see you on the webinar Andre Andre has a question on the moments of truth he said I'd like to know how they were determined for example an employer senior management based employee based surveys focus groups qualitative quantitative analysis etc Thanks I'll I'll start I'll start and then I'll pass off to you Peter to give you same chance that so one of the things as I said Andre is the organization in itself the core of the business not just the enabling functions but the core the business was really leading this transformation the CEO and they had a number of different vendor partners consulting firms as well as internal teams that were looking at the customer experience today versus what they wanted they did a similar piece of work on the employee experience and and I'm not sure on some of the methodologies that they use Peter do you recall any any of that it was it was a two-step approach is it so so methodologies there initially they were they were using focus groups and that was to identify I'm gonna flick the slides very quickly so I apologize for this so they had focus groups which really drilled got to what where were the moments of truth so there this was about asking employees you know what are the points in their end-to-end career we're getting it right or getting it wrong really mattered so that led to the slide you can see in front of you with the seven areas I guess you'd almost call these milestones of truth it's the moments that matter they then used a combination of interviews and focus groups to start to drill down on each of those on each of those moments of truth and to identify where what it was employees employees were saying at all levels in the organization from senior money down to down to frontline employee and the size of the blobs are somewhat significant here because it's where where the most passion was for getting it right obviously everything had to be right but some things there were the employees were more passionate about that my passionate about that others I don't want to add mark I have nothing more to add I agree I think does that matter give us that answer a question you can go out we'll just give ya very clear okay good question let's keep going okay guy so I just wanted to summarize because because what I've tried to go through fairly quickly as a combination of giving you a a headline feel for the company and a headline feel for some of the work that went in in what we would think of was the current state and the and the foundation phase which as Mark said earlier is all about starting to get the design criteria and the parameters the constraints for for the future design but some key points to come out of that and the end and these are the this isn't us saying this this is this is more what they were feeding the organization itself was feeding back to us as we reviewed the the work as it was going forwards and things that had struck them has been really important first one I won't go from all in detail but but certainly make sure you start with the work not with the people the obvious one of aligning with the business vision and the business direction but in this case that was fundamental because the business vision and the business direction was all about customer differentiate customer segmentation and the customer experience therefore they wanted to use that the way they wanted to build off the businesses direction to develop the HR direction mark mentioned the point about a massive investment in number four inning in gaining stakeholder support and Trust for this because they knew they were going to take HR in quite a different direction and that it would impact on the role of the land manager and it would impact on the the experience of HR and the interaction with HR they spent a massive amount of time helping the business understand their foundational principles so before they even went into starting to do the concept design which mark will talk about in a minute before before before they even went into that they spent a lot of time just socializing their design criteria and the parameters and the constraints both and taking a very clear outside in view of that so so making it clear to the organization that this wasn't about HR redesigning itself it was about the business that the business helping them to develop the best HR operating model to deliver the business strategy so just some key wisdoms there and quite powerful ones that came out from that just from the very early work before before the the design work even began so I think at that point it's probably time to hand back over to mark and start to talk a bit more about the the employee experience operating model so go to your mark yeah thanks just just give you a sense of where we're at Peter we got about 25 minutes yeah yeah and to everyone Julie good good to see you on the webinar everyone keep your questions coming so let's talk about the operating model wait birra birra it's good to see you as well as she's got a question I would like to ask you what challenges you went through to convince top management team and department leaders to accept HR role as a strategic differentiator instead of administrating role what typical patterns have you observed as barriers so that's a really good beer it's a really great question and it's good see on the webinar let me start with saying the C HR o had a terrific relationship with the he as part of the executive committee and with the CEO and had a terrific relationship and so coming into it that we didn't feel like for some HR functions where they're swimming against the tide so that that's the first thing and and and not having watched the C HR o interact with the CEO but you know I can't tell you what transpired there and how they get their relationship to the place to the place it was which was quite positive and influential Peter can you maybe add something to beer and we can also answer it along the way yeah just a quick answer late again I'm aware of time it moves very quickly the other thing that was fundamental here is the whole business knew it had to go through a massive transformation to deliver the future strategy and to deliver the the move to operating a along a a customer experience model and the line managers and the operational managers and the senior leaders were all saying we need HR to help us to help us manage our people through this transition so so that there was there was a pull from the line for a different operating model from HR they didn't know what the operating model would look like but the line of the organization knew that things need to change and that was really helpful to them in while the effort as a as an organization wasn't a cost-cutting effort part of the part of the return on investment and value proposition for the HR redesigned were twofold one is they needed to get ahead of the business so that they could help the business complete the transformation and then not be stuck in their own way which was completely supported by the executive committee and the second one was the savings we don't have the numbers in here and I can't remember off the top of my head and Peter maybe you can recall but I think there was a 30 to 40 percent savings in terms of potential headcount from today to tomorrow just taking out or what we call capacity reliefs just by taking out all of variants in all the HR work alone was a massive savings which also part of the part of the to ask by the C HR o to the businesses we need some technology investment to make this operating model work we're going to need massive technology investment and so they had a pretty robust ROI and the other thing is one of the reasons the operating model modernisations fail for a function is because they don't keep their stakeholders the executive stakeholders and the CH ro did a terrific job of staying completely connected to the ex CO and staying close to them and making sure all along the way that that he had their blessing and they were completely aligned in the right way so those are some things that we would talk to him and I'll keep going let's go to the operating model and that's a good question Vera if you have more specific and also we can take this offline as well Vera in more detail okay Peter go ahead so the operating model TrueNorth for those of you who work with us we talked about the gravitational paul these four this was part of the HR if you were business direction they want to be an employer that does the things there and in kind of a greenish color they want they want to be full of employees who help each other believe there's a better way and think customer first by the way this this isn't just a mindset it's a behavior change and and you can see these these three as part of the DHR TrueNorth and it's it's simplified summarized here for you to kind of get your head around it and it's really about to deliver the company promise for those of you who've done work with us and know our work they also had a true north what we call a gravitational pull and and their choice was operational excellence first followed by product innovation and product leadership with customer intimacy third these are very big important decisions and they're not easily made but but choosing the gravitational pole sets in motion a whole series of operating model choices that have to fit with this gravitational pole and this work we've been doing for years using this based on the strategy work by Tracy and receiver if any of you want to know more about it happy to to to point you in the right direction so with that said their model go ahead Peter their model was built around the employee and colleague experience of a fan and it was also built around a what we would call a value stream and the value stream was understand the need design it or enhance it planet implement it and embed it but by itself that's just a kind of a value stream step that's not the employee journey go ahead Peter the employee journey what they did was say we're gonna organize fundamentally around join contribute grow and move on now they've changed the name of move on since then uh but it basically means the same thing so the operating model had two elements to it and the main element being the employee lifecycle the four steps an employee lifecycle and then also then supported by the five steps of the value stream let me be quiet there Peter before we move on and see if you have anything to add though I'll just add that bit on the edit no no I think I think I think the fundament of worked with others and and dumb concept design work before it really is just recognizing that there's there's a simple value stream that runs from understand to embed and then there are products and service streams that run across that and which of the four / the four streams and that plan is the glue the planning work is the glue that holds it all together to make sure that you are you come to the organization and HR continues to look at the expert employee experience end-to-end and doesn't start to fragment across those those four horizontals so and for those of you who know our work we always talk about one of our wisdoms as the work comes first or when we say this tongue-in-cheek we don't care about people at this stage we really don't care about people we care about is what is the work that happens with each one of these horizontals so if we go to the next slide Peter and you'll see that what we basically went through is all the HR value creating deliverables that come out of HR and we said okay what work will be done in each one of these horizontals once you figure out work is done within a certain boundary then it becomes it becomes the basis or the DNA if you will for your structure choices how are we going to organize people so we call this bounding work and that's essentially what you have here is and move on was including things like leaving the organization pension and all the things that you think that happened when people move on outside of an organization so I'm not not sure we looks like we've left some things out there but there was a whole lot of work that happened and move on anything Peter the only though for those it's I know how hard it is to get out of the old the old operating model out of your head if you're in HR and and in the old operating model you would have seen completely separately something called transactional services or HR services but the decision here is that all those services are around the core helping people to contribute to the organization so what you would traditionally think of as transactional services as a separate blob in an Allred model is embedded within the contributes horizontal of of this new operating model sorry my voice is going of them back them no nothing else to add so um before we move any feel free again to ask any questions along along the way or about the operating model let's let's move on Peter yeah so so essentially what they did is looked at this model and said okay everyone's going to be focused on the moments that matter here at the moment some matter around the employee experience and each of these moments that matter is owned by one of those horizontals so it becomes critical that those horizontals are also glued up and so this is just a replay of what we've seen previously and there are primary owners of the moments that matter so now we're getting into roles and jobs and those of you who also know our work you also know that for us roles are not the same as jobs but ultimately there were owners which were both roles and potentially jobs focused on each moment of truth anything to add Peter no I was just putting out up for you mark which i think is the that this was their initial shot at the what we think of as the level two structure of the organization so so having a a senior team that was organized around the horizontals within the operating model so you'll see that the join and move on are owned by one person contribute grow understanding and planning communications in telecommunications but we haven't talked about that but that was embedded within within their HR function and they kept it as a separate area of work for the moment because they weren't a hundred percent sure in the long term where they really wanted that work to go so they kept it as a separate role so so they didn't have too much to unpick it once they did if they did decide to move that beyond HR which was part of their thinking Peter Jilly it's good to see you Jilly asked a great question which is who had the decision power in the last slide guessing this slide shows to 51% of power so Jilly if we go out Peter if you take us back to slide let's try to answer that for Jilly this one I think let's let's stick with this one while she tells us otherwise a couple of things number one is is that when we do well you know this when we talk about work we're also talking about decisions that go with that work so we divorce deliberately decisions and work from people and and so that we don't get wrapped around the people axle so the each joint contribute grow and move on own 51% of decisions that had to do with join contribute grow and move on it was something that cut across multiple horizontals that was a different issue that had to be reconciled between the owners of each of those um Peter would you add to that now I think I think that said that that's dead on so so because they chosen operational excellence as their gravitational pull and they created boundaries which handled work end to end that the power for the end to end work within the boundary obviously remained within the boundary the own and repeating mark abyss here the only time the power that the decision had to be taken outside the boundary was in the the very rare occasions where there was there was conflict across boundaries and I can't think of an example of them but one might come from before the end in that case it was a it was a consensus decision between them and if the consensus couldn't be reached the the power went into the plan the plan vertical and you if we when we see the chart again you'll see that the prong vertical has got an owner right so let's talk about the verticals for just a second and Julie is one of the things I'm I'm channeling the CHR oh now he talked about in the Oh work model and this is a direct quote that there's a lot of nonsense developed by HR particularly the CEO II because what else do they do they develop stuff that many times the business doesn't want and so the thing that really pulled for a lot of passion for the team developing this model was we're going to deliver just what the business needs not more not less and we're not going to have a CEO II that's just developing stuff because they can so it was more of a poll so the importance of the implement and embed as a precursor to understand and design meaning that you're not going to have people just designing things and then and then pushing it on to the business so if we look across the the Berto holls be the focus and this comes back to the earlier question about localization is things were both standardized but also pulled locally so that you could have some design but it wasn't that there was a group of designers or Co E's in the background just developing stuff to to put it on put it and push it on top of the of the of the organization if they're or as as as the CH ro said a lot of nonsense coming in on top of the business that they don't want and don't understand so there was power in both the verticals and the horizontals let's let's keep going Peter just recognizing time we've got about 10 minutes left so some of the wisdoms here had to do with identify the importance of starting with the customer experience then moving to the employee experience and getting those things aligned one of the things was really unique about this project was really understanding that customer experience well enough to then bridge it to the employee experience in aligning those two things for those of you who've been around the block it may remind you of the the employee profit chain articles that came out of HBR and the follow up late 90s early 2000s about customer experience and employees engaged truly head and heart engaged the impact that has on the bottom line on the both the customer experience as well as the profitability of a company it was really key of aligning these the other one was the courage to start with a clean sheet of paper the breaking out of the current mindset is a lot of work and it doesn't happen overnight but for those of you who know the importance of how do we get to a clean sheet and really start when we really push them and push them in different ways just to make sure that they try it on all the possibilities or what we call what we'd call you know getting a breadth of ideas before we start to chunk down so chunk out before you chunk down and then the relentlessness we don't have the slides in here but the relentless relentlessness and driving out waste including doing things that the business doesn't want you to do was really key and I think that was probably the most important piece for the CHR as they looked at work and standardization and how much localization and where and in how much they looked at in their current state was just being spent on doing stuff that the business want didn't even want was quite substantial I'm Peter anything to add here on the wisdoms no no I think III think there are things that will just pick up at the end so I think that's that's good right geli if if that doesn't answer a question we can take it offline and and and talk about that more detail let's keep going and you want to start this Peter I'll kick it off yeah I'm looking at the clock so we've talked a lot about yo upfront about the the otm approach to this work and taking a collaborative approach but what what's what was fundamental in this project and what is generally funded fundamental is is is to make sure that the approach that's taken is is complete and holistic this this this approach could have fallen at any at any number of points if the organization haven't been truly focused on taking this a step at a time and socializing it after every step so when we say it fails if you take an incomplete approach what we what we could see was if they tried to leap let's say from the current state to doing a concept without really doing the foundational work they would have never made the leap that they needed to make and the same if they gone straight from concept to planning the implementation again it wouldn't have worked so to get that true transformational change to the operating model of a function that has a lot of history and a lot of as skin in the game of continuing to do it the way that it it always has them is reliant on making sure that the approach is following step by step but also and is to me is making sure that it's designed around the right value stream mark talked a few minutes ago about making sure you taken outside in approach to the redesign of HR and not an inside out by that we mean if you take it inside out approach to HR you will start by putting a boundary around the work that HR currently does and those of you that work in HR and those of you that don't actually will will recognize that the management of the human resource which is it which is what HR exists to help managers marries the people amazed the human resource within the organization the boundary has to be around the full end-to-end HR work and in most organizations that work is done by a lot of that work is done by land managers and some of that work is done by employees themselves and it's fundamentally important when looking at the value stream that you that they took and that you take a a complete approach to that and make sure you cover the full value stream and don't UM oversimplify it by just saying well that's not HR work that's line managers work because that's about thinking about the people and not thinking about the work what else when I pull out on here and I think some of the obvious ones you know you've got to involve both HR and the operations from the start because of what I've just said and that's you don't think of it as will do the design and then we'll throw some change management on top to get it implemented this this in this organization it was a design approach that involved almost everybody in HR and involved a lot of the operation as well to help them really start to design the work for themselves and design the new operating model for themselves so that when it came to a where they were ready to implement the organization wasn't just ready for this new operating model it was saying we want it we need it now because the business is transforming we need you to change the way you work you're working and we need you to change to that model that we've helped you design the obvious ones at the end sorry go ahead Peter Julie asked a question how long did it take to end in and she was saying julie shares with her team about three years to embed so you know ideally we started we finished the concept work and the majority of a stakeholder work on the new operating model started in July August timeframe and we're done before Christmas and then they implemented in the did the detail design in the first three to six months of the new year so you think all in all was about a year to get to implementation but they one of the things they had to do was make some big investments in terms of technology and of course like anything else in implementation there's the criticality of critical path and what comes first second third so I think you're right to to make this makes as much of a change and we're at we're at least three we're at least three years out now and I think they're still and I think they're still stabilizing some elements of that I think that's right mark I think yeah they they wouldn't claim that it was fully embedded and and completely institutionalized yet but I getting close agreed just go ahead Peter no you go ahead I put the last of what was going to be our last slide that people can read it was we're talking because I'm aware of the time we've only got two minutes left so go ahead mark yeah I was going to say that rayon is our digital marketing manager and she's on this call Regan Regan has posted online video of me presenting with the customer last October and if when when Reagan sends out or a link to download the the recording of this webinar as well as the slides Reagan if you wouldn't mind including that because I think I think there are things in there that he talks about that we've not included in terms of also implementation and I think it's like just like a five minute we've cut it down from a half hour hour presentation to like five minutes I think would you mind doing that Reagan when you send that out so I think before we close I just want to say thank you and if we haven't answered your questions all of you know how to get a hold of us but before we close a couple of things on the left-hand side we have some virtual events coming up we we are starting something next week that we've not seen it's called ask me anything and Peter and myself and the consulting team are going to be available to answer any or design related questions and share with you our wisdom or tools or things of that nature so it's completely open go ahead okay if you if you've got more questions about today's webinar that's a good that's a good opportunity to do to come on to that one on the 28th and ask is anything also next week I'm doing a conversation dialogue for up with the organization design forum on beyond strategic organization design working at the operating model level and the ODN the organization development network I'm doing a webinar for them in March on what basics of organization designed to the OD community we also have upcoming public masterclass five-day masterclass March is a beautiful time in Phoenix for those of you who love to hike the desert is blooming then and I'm sure you can get a pretty cheap round-trip flight and it should be a full five-day if you're interested lastly before we close if you want more resources out there if you wouldn't mind Peter one more the organization design community on your left are the ones who have the certified organizational design practitioner they also provide the Journal of organization design all of these sister professional organizations dealing with organization design the organization design form the European organization design form have events there's links on here that you can get you to their website as well as the socio technical systems Roundtable so there's lots of resources professional industry groups out there in our field if you want to connect more and this will be in the slide deck for you but I wanted at least let you know in closing really appreciate your time we know it's a big investment and appreciate any feedback you have you want to say anything before we close no no thank you for listening it's hard to get it all into an hour and there's obviously a lot more behind what we've said so you know do take advantage of the video look at the slides join us on they ask me anything if there's more you want to know but thanks for your attention good see you back to you Reagan yeah thanks for joining us this morning and as always feel free to reach out if you have any questions thanks everyone