Streamline your Document Processes with Inbound Marketing Lead Nurturing in Legal Agreements

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help not create churn because if somebody downloads something you hit them too hard and heavy um they unsubscribe and then you don't get an opportunity to build that relationship and then the goal of this workflow these campaign workflows for me is always to get them into a lower stage of the funnel so it's all about them taking the next step so if it's a top of funnel campaign workflow the goal is to get them into some sort of middle of funnel workflow some middle funnel piece of content and likewise if they're in the middle of funnel the goal is to get them into the bottom of the funnel so you know i work in sas i'm a sas guy so a lot of times that's either requesting a demo or signing up for a free trial um you know if it's for you or your clients you know you're probably going to have some other options but just know like it's whatever that pre-purchase bottom of the funnel thing is that would be the the next step and then these campaign workflows the last actual step is i'll actually enroll them in a re-engagement workflow so i'm assuming they've gone through an entire campaign workflow they haven't progressed they haven't taken that next step then i throw them into re-engagement but i'll get into that in a second i want to give you guys a quick example of what a campaign lead nurture workflow looks like so here you can see like this is just an example of an ebook download and you see like there's an email and we wait a day and then we have another email and we wait two days and that's kind of how this time decay model goes along and you can see how it's one straight line actually don't have any branching in this one in most of my campaign nurtures i like to keep them very very simple um because i think the the guy the the key to being effective with this is to keep it really really simple um and not get too complicated with it um i'm so yeah i like keep the campaign narrations like just know that each one of these lead nurture emails the goal of that email is to get them to take that next step so let's say this was a top of the funnel ebook my middle funnel content may be a webinar where we dive in specific something that was mentioned in the ebook and that would be these emails would be focused on getting them into that thing or you know you may have multiple pieces of content you could promote different ones in the emails themselves but then you'll see that last step is enrolling manually enrolling them into that re-engagement workflow which i'll get to next um and so this happens a lot so as we all know like most of the leads you end up generate uh you generate are not going to progress and that's just how the whole volume game works so a small percentage of them are going to meet the goal and go on to that next stage but the vast majority are actually not going to convert so they're going to fall into this re-engagement workflow and this is why this becomes really important so what a lot of people do when they don't have a re-engagement workflow is leads typically go through some sort of campaign-esque like workflow they reach the end and then it just stops so they just sit in the database they never really come around around to them um then the re-engagement workflow gives you a chance to have another shot at those leads and so as you saw on that pro uh that quick gift that i put up there at the end you manually enroll them into this workflow and what i'll do is i'll typically also pull in leads who have say you know this obviously depends on you having a sales assisted uh i guess sales cycle so say like you pass someone off to your sales development or sales and like the lead status they don't make a connection or it's bad timing or something of that nature i'll also have them pull into this re-engagement workflow based off of that status as well too so the sales doesn't make any progress with the leads it's like okay let's pull them back into a re-engagement flow let's see if marketing can warm the mac up so they don't just sit in you know an sdrsq and kind of go cold or anything like that and these can be more uh complex in structures so the re-engagement workflow is where i get really complex with the branching and typically what i'll do is when they're enrolled the next step will actually be a branch and they'll have a branch based off of something like life cycle stage so it could literally be a life cycle stage where you have you know were they in op or were they sql or the mql where they lead um and obviously everything that comes off of that branch you're going to tailor your messaging based off of where they were kind of in their their buyer's journey is really what you're trying to get to with that first branch um so it may be something like you know if they were an opportunity you already know like they're really interested they've talked the sales they've made it really far in the process so you don't need to explain to them what you do or you don't need to sell them initially essentially what you're trying to do is figure out okay they obviously went a different direction if they didn't progress past op what can i do to tell them about like new features we have figure out what their pain points were you may want to run a survey to find out hey you know why didn't you end up going with us like whatever that data is there um you're gonna try to figure that out kind of in the beginning of that branch and then as the the workflow goes on you'll do the same thing with other branches so if they were a lead you know okay they didn't progress to mql um they may have just needed more time to find out about our pro like the problem that our solution solves or they need to figure out do we have the right feature set um all those different things you kind of you know work off those different branches and i think the biggest thing with this initial branch is figuring out like what's the best predictor for your business in terms of where this uh contact is in their buying journey so kind of marrying it to that life cycle stage is kind of the most widely applicable one um but there are others um and i'll get into that too and then a question mike oh yeah got a question for you so for the re-engagement campaigns do they have to specifically opt in to the re-engagement workflow based on specific product interests or campaigns from jasmine oh good good really good question yeah no i'll uh actually let me click through to this actually let me go back i'll get into that in a second but yeah what um they don't necessarily have to specifically opt in with the re-engagement workflow um assuming they've already converted on that form submission you already have their opt-in so that's why at the end of the campaign workflows i actually manually uh enroll them in this re-engagement workflow and so for them it's gonna seem like one seamless journey like they've made the transition within the workflow but for them they're just going to be getting emails so they don't know that they've made this transition to a different workflow because it feels very seamless um so yeah so i just manually enroll them in there and then they continue getting the emails and the messaging and it goes on um and then with this like the re-engagement workflow i change up the frequency here so whereas like in the campaign workflows we typically work off that time decay so you're kind of hitting them hot and heavy closest to the conversion point once they get to this point um you want to give them those cooling off periods so what i typically do is i actually operate on kind of like a pulsing frequency so it'll actually start out you know space far in between so it may be like one email a week and over time it'll slowly heat up and it'll go to like you know one every five days one every three days when every other day and then it'll kind of slow down again to one every three days whenever five days you know it'll kind of go on in that fashion um i find that that's really really effective because what happens is in this re-engagement workflow you know these leads have started to go cold so you want to make sure that you give them that cooling off period so as you go in you can kind of go and you give them that breathing room to say okay we're getting infrequent emails or just touching you every now and then to stay top of mind and then you slowly heat up um and get more you up the frequency a little bit for a little bit and see if you can get them to progress and buy another piece of content and then you slow down and you kind of go on on that fashion as long as you want to make the re-engagement workflow um and it can be as long as you want to be typically i like to model it based off of the length of the sales cycle so um at surveymonkey on the enterprise side of our business um the sales cycle tends to be like six months so the actual re-engagement workflow actually goes on for um i think almost six months six months is a lot of time to cover so i'm always building on it but i think it's we're right about there now um but yeah if it's your sales cycle is 12 months or if it's three months you kind of you kind of mirror off that and then with the re-engagement workflow the goal actually uh is to get them to uh engage with another piece of content that's at their same level of the funnel so whereas at the campaign nurture we were trying to get them to take the next step into like you know lower in the funnel reengagement then takes it and says okay they didn't take the next set forward maybe if they sign up for a webinar i can get them to sign up for our other our next webinar or another on-demand webinar so kind of giving them more content at that same level funnel um as you get lower in there like say if they as you get longer like you know um you can actually do a step back so i'll say if they convert it on a webinar and say that's a middle funnel webinar they drop into re-engagement they go into a branch and we'll actually promote okay you know here's some other on-demand webinars or here's another webinar that we have coming up that's live and if they don't bite on those couple of touches then i'll actually take a step back and say okay what's something a little higher in the funnel so i'll promote uh you know a guide or an e-book something that's a little higher and see if they abide on that um and the real goal with the re-engagement workflow is to see if you can get them to engage with another piece of content um and so that's kind of the way you're kind of taking a step back and trying to figure out can you milk a little bit more value out of those leads um and ideally all of that content that you're promoting actually has its own campaign nurture associated with it so as a lead uh then bites and says okay i'm interested in this other webinar then they get into campaign nurture based off of that webinar and they go on that same process so that has its own like time decay they reached in they go back into re-engagement and they get back into this phase so essentially leads can actually go um around like a several times so imagine like you're a lead you're coming in you're interested in content but you're not progressing you could go from campaign workflow to re-engagement to campaign workflow the re-engagement several times um and that allows you to kind of maximize leads because leads are still interested in content you should keep them in the mix and keep working them and so that's essentially how it works so your campaign nurtures are feeding your reengagement nurture and then your re-engagement nurture is in turn feeding your other campaign nurtures um and so that's what i kind of work on to kind of create that that cycle so it takes a lot of pressure off of your lead acquisition efforts because if you know like if we get leads where they're not just churn and burn we put them through a workflow if they don't convert we're on to acquiring the next you're kind of taking them you're making sure people kind of go around this kind of cyclical fashion several times so the only time a lead is truly like lost or like they're cold and you're not coming back to them is when like they get to the re-engagement they're like i'm not interested in any other content i've consumed all i want to consume and then you know okay they weren't going to progress they weren't going to go anywhere that's a lead that you can be okay letting drop out of your your uh system your automation you've got going on here um and yes so i know that was a mouthful so yeah if there are any questions definitely let me know but i'm happy i have a whole we will have a lot of time for questions i promise we're almost to the end here um but i do want to get into how a cyclical system of lead nurturing drives growth and so the real important part of this is um you know it creates real results so part of getting to this point like i was telling you guys earlier about driving this high level of pipeline is all about making sure we get the max value out of every lead that's generated so you guys i know most of you out there seeing it like generating leads is hard you know as people get even more concerned over privacy like getting a name email you know all that information just comes harder and harder so i think it's important to build processes where if we get a lead let's make sure we maximize lead value out of that lead whether they're on faster buy or drain slower we want to make sure that we we get all the value out of them and what this system has done um i've seen it create 1.3 million dollars in lifetime value every single month like clockwork um and that's huge and like a lot of that is not like oh we're generating a huge number of leads it's just we're making the huge value out of every single lead we have coming in so they're slowly they're always getting work they're staying in this cycle we're kind of running them around time after time um and i've seen it create twelve dollars in pipeline for every single email sent um this is huge this is one of the data points that i think was really interesting when i was diving into our own data is like imagine like you send an email knowing like clockwork every single one you send is going to generate twelve dollars a pipeline um and it's huge that's huge efficiency i think you know email's such an underrated channel um but building systems like this helps you create turn it into that real money maker that i think people are looking for um and email engagement has been really good so i think you know one of the things that can be overlooked is we tend to get like hyper focused on pipeline um but one of the leading factors to getting pipeline is obviously your contacts being engaged so when you're thinking about frequency and your messaging and all of that that's really really key to this and like the whole frequency portion finding the right balance there has led us to really high click rates so four percent um i'm really really proud of i think that we've done there um for those of you not super familiar with email benchmarks like the the you know typically you're looking at somewhere around two percent people would consider average um so we're slowly building on that i'm actually trying to get that higher kind of work that up to five but uh yeah i think you know engagement's a really important indicator when you're looking at kind of driving towards that that ultimate goal which is that pipeline revenue kind of money in the bank so um that's a really good sign too and then i think you know why the system works um it works because one it's easy to manage so despite like that long complication complicated explanation of how they work when you actually have it in action it's really really easy so the point of keeping the campaign nurtures you know simple and linear is that you can go in you can swap out emails you can dive deeper into smart content it's really really easy to manage you don't have these multiple workflows all over the place where you forget what this workflow does or this big complicated workflow that you never get to work through and optimize you keep it really simple so it's easy to manage um and then it's flexible enough to accommodate any buying journey so and that's the other big thing i think you know buying journeys uh in 2021 and going into 2022 are so dynamic um you really have to have a system that's not based on how you would like them to go through the journey it's just based on how they want to go to the journey through the journey so whether someone like hits the website it's like okay i'm already interested in this business i'm going to grab this ebook so as you can get a sense what they're talking about then i'm ready to talk to sales you're going to have those people and that's the system can accommodate that right so they download an ebook they take the next step and they quickly go through the process and get to sales or you may have people who are like i'm not even 100 sure that i have the problem yet so they download that same ebook trying to get a sense of what is the problem do i have it um do i want to pay for a solution so their buying journey is going to be longer and it also can accommodate that so as they go into re-engagement they get more content they learn more about the problem you solve then they learn natural nudges about your solution and how you solve it so it's flexible enough to accommodate any kind of buying journey know how they go through it and then the best thing like what i love most about is you can quickly iterate on everything so the frequency you can iterate on your ctas like i said your content you can do all of that and continue to work on it and prove it over and over um something that's really really hard to do if you have a lot of really complicated workflows and you're stretched then like not everybody has like an army of marketing operations or demand gen people so keeping it simple allows you to really get into testing and that's where you really have the big wins so i'll throw it i threw out like some of the frequency i work on in terms of like time decay or pulsing but there may be something else that you can find very effective if you have a really simple system you can iterate on and test that really really easily um yeah i know i feel like i've been talking for a very long time so i definitely want to open it up to questions if anybody has any more out there let's see uh let's see let's see if there are any questions [Music] uh let's see okay let's see what we got here all right oh uh yeah alex looks like he may i can't hear him um no worries um let me let me pick out a question out here and let's see what we've got here [Music] let's see so jasmine let's see ah this is a good one um is there ever a time where they are getting duplicated content or they end up in the same workflow later down the line um yes so um you may they may get duplicated content um in terms of like the same thing that you're promoting um it certainly can happen uh i find that a lot of times that's okay because if you look at this workflow um as time goes by just like ad recall people have very low email recalls so even if you've gotten the exact same email like two months ago you have no idea that you got that email like you come back in got the same thing and then um one of the other things that's gonna help you is to keep it simple when you're iterating and you're constantly making small tweaks to the content you can promote the same thing and you've just changed up the wording in your automated email so it feels different even if it's kind of in essence the exact same message um but yeah i found it worked really well because i think you know a lot of times we kind of put pressure on ourselves like every piece of content has to be unique they can't get the same thing again but most people don't even remember like i have sas businesses that i love like hubspot's email like if hubspot sent out a newsletter that promoted the exact same five or six articles i probably wouldn't notice honestly but yeah i think it's i think in essence that's okay can you hear me now mike oh yes i can hear you okay i don't know what happened my screen just kind of stopped and i i talked for maybe five minutes and nobody reacted so i knew something was wrong um but uh i'm pretty sure hubspot probably has sent the same emails over and over exactly but uh what i was saying is we have ryan has a lot of questions about your data um that you've kind of presented in this so i'll start i'll start kind of uh well he has a question about the ryan i'm gonna go all the way back from your first question um you said 1.6 million created pipe created pipeline or closed pipeline i think that was like in one of your early slides yeah yeah um so yeah that is actually created pipeline so um that's obviously we um i know everybody defines pipeline differently so yeah at surveymonkey we define pipeline as an opportunity is created and a value attached by uh an account executive so our sales person so that would be creative pipeline um you know i i hate i don't want to muddy data or anything i have to get like what our actual close rate is but just know like that's creative pipeline so they obviously don't close all of that but uh we do pretty well with our funnel we try to be good about quality over quantity so um it's probably pretty decent i just don't have the number off the top of my head now cool and then we have it also has questions about your four percent click rate is that across um all of your seek all of your all of your workflows is that um you know is that like email best you have how are you defining that yeah yeah um so that click raise among across all of our emails so that's including like our regular scheduled sends automated sends um it kind of encompasses the whole the whole gamut um we track that together individually um and yeah so that's how that's what we're looking at in terms of click rate cool and then um you guys if you have more questions off of these go ahead and add them in i'm kind of going through royce has a good question is what do you do when a contact becomes a member of two campaigns so if they're in your re-engagement and then they engage in one of your campaign workflows yeah um you know i know people handle this differently like typically what i'll do is all of the emails um will have a frequency cap so if somebody's like super interesting content like i definitely want them to get the content within the different workflows um and know that the frequency cap is going to keep the situation from someone who goes and says like they download five different ebooks they're not getting five emails on the same day the frequency capital will make sure to take care of that so i just kind of trust the frequency cap to go in and troubleshoot issues like those and um yeah and kind of let them work through the process yeah it's uh it's not super common i find that like when we have contacts we were like i'm downloading everything you have they're usually somebody who's like just looking to learn or they're just trying another marker trying to get a sense of like what what kind of content are they building like it's a competitor or something but yeah i'm gonna jump to uh adele asked one in the in the general in the general chat here um when a lead is cold do you delete them from the database completely or do you or or uh keep them in case they resurface yeah i know this is a this is actually a really tough one because i know there's a lot of thought processes to this um i'll say that at surveymonkey um they're they're a big we're a big publicly traded company so we can afford to pay for contacts and have them sit in the database for a little bit longer and continue to work them i'd say like you know figure out your own situation in terms of like you know i'm i'm big about people not overpaying for like elites truly cold in the ice box like make it a non-marketing contact let it sit not be one that you're paying for sending emails to um but yeah it really depends on the company's size i say if you're big you got a lot of money to spend like let them sit continue to work on them over over time and kind of figure it out but yeah if you're small on the smaller stage like you're a startup and it's like you are very conscious of like the the monthly price that you're paying for hubspot definitely don't be afraid to be aggressive with making people those non-marking contacts so you're not paying for them yeah that is a real that is a real thing yeah trimming down contacts um so so i'm gonna read this just kind of verbatim from ryan because i think he still might be unclear on the four percent um is four percent of the people in the workflows who will eventually click click one email workflow goal tracking or is it four percent of every email is clicked oh gotcha so the four percent sorry i wasn't clear on that is actually our our aggregate click rate so out of all the emails we send four percent of them are clicked um so i hope that adds a little bit of uh clarity to that i think so and then um right um cool yeah seems like uh cool ryan got that figured out yeah um royce it seems like you have a second question that seems similar to the first but i'll go and read it um what you do in a contact that's in the nurture but then engages with the campaign i guess that's the same uh you kind of answered that yield you determine you'll let them either get both they're interested or potentially unenroll uh yeah if it's because you can go either or and like there's not a uh you know a real like you know this is a set where it has to be um yeah if they're you kind of go off your database of content like they're things where it's okay for them to get messaging about two things say i look at a situation where you have a software like you know air table like where it has a lot of different use cases and you may say okay um they're interested in as project management and where they may also be interested in marketing campaign planning so it's okay for them to be in two nurtures because these are different use cases like let's let them get that um you know if they're a situation where it's mutually exclusive you really want to focus in on them having one use case then maybe you go in the unenrollment route if they sign up for a different campaign workflow so i have a question so just thinking about um the logistics of creating a six month workflow with the different pulses um are are you creating the emails yourself or is there other team members that are creating that content because just thinking of a content creator um that's a lot of emails to potentially create and i know you can probably repurpose and you can bring stuff back that you previously sent um but maybe talk just for a second on on that process definitely definitely um yeah so fortunately um you know i know where everyone works here but you know i'm at surveymonkey so it's a very very big company we have a huge team so we like i've got a big content team that i can leverage for a lot of the email building um you know we have agencies that we can outsource work to for our huge in-house team that can't get something done so we have a lot of assets in-house to be able to do that um if there's a situation where um you know you guys are a little bit more strapped on time don't feel like you need to build it all at one time so before surveymonkey i actually worked at a smaller company uh called kinsta which is a wordpress hosting company and we were very tight like i was a one-man demand generation team i had one content person so uh it was a lot harder to build the workflows and what i do is i just work on it in time so i know that like save the same situation i'm working up to six months i'll just start with like the re-engagement flow goes for a couple of weeks and i'll just kind of build on it in chunks um and that's the great thing about workflows you don't have to have it all set from day one like you can work on in chunks and i do it all the time where like i have a workflow and like i actually have contacts in the workflow as i'm building on to it so it's always fun because it's like i tell people like oh it's like a train the train's running down the track as i'm actually building the track that the train's coming into i love that i love right yeah that that's a good point is building that building those even those pulses in chunks when you do that do you re-enroll or or if if everybody who's in the re-engagement camp uh workflow if you add content do you do you send that content to people who've already gone through the rest or is it only new contacts who come through yeah typically it will only be new contacts i won't re-enroll them um if there's new content i know that they'll get it through one of our ad hoc sends so just like every other business anytime we have a new piece of content we'll you know send it out to the target set of the database so they'll probably get it there um and then obviously look the system they download it then they get into a campaign workflow and they go through the whole process uh we have a good question from from sarah um are the leads that don't work out when talking to sales auto enroll into the engagement when property or do they uh or do you have more criteria to meet first yeah you know typically what i'll do is i'll have them auto enroll when there is a status change so it won't be off like the life cycle stage change it will be something like the the status or lead status i know some people set up their own properties but yeah it'll be something like you know they made contact with sales and they'll say okay the status is now recycled because i haven't gotten anywhere with them or the lead told me they're not ready to buy right now so it's bad timing and i'll have it auto enroll as soon as they hit that status um and have them plug into the workflow awesome um if there's any more i'm gonna make another quick announcement to say thank you to for to everybody um hubspot does have some free swag that they want to give everybody for joining i just put the link in uh in the the chat and i'll pin it to the oh i pinned the wrong one to the top um so go ahead and check that out if you guys if you guys would like um that's cool so there's some there's some free free stuff there and as i mentioned at the beginning we are having a second uh hug event next week for the san diego hubspot user group and it's really all about organizing your database and keeping things uh keeping things clean and i think uh mike can probably tell you that if you don't have the right data these workflows don't work as well and so it usually starts with a clean database so i'm gonna go ahead and put that in there in the chat as well um that is december 14th yes that's next uh tuesday nice yeah that that's a really big problem like i find like even like at surveymonkey like we have a huge problem with organizing our account like because they're so once you get like so many hands in there it's really easy people don't get naming conventions people don't put stuff in the right folders like it's a it's a whole thing i mean even the fact that you you mentioned uh you you check you check different like lead statuses contact properties and i have found that sales and marketing define and use those so differently yes that if there's not a conversation there um right a client that it felt like a therapy session between head of marketing head of sales one was tracking on on sqls the other one didn't even use them and so there were new sqls so marketing's like we're not getting any sales qualified but nobody was using it right that conversation is a fun one let's see if there's any more questions i mean like any question is a good question um you know ryan did actually question about do you know your close rate percentage on this channel on marketing uh i actually don't know off of the top of my head um yeah let me i'll dig into that if you're really interested um definitely hit my website uh myktatum.com um and yeah grab some time on my calendar we can dive into the day like i said i'm not trying to be dodgy or anything i just don't have the data in front of me right now but yeah that's definitely let's dig into it um if you're interested yeah feel free to grab time on my calendar i have a schedule right on my site yeah so on that note mike if you don't want to put your linkedin and your website in the chat um everybody go you know go connect mike let me actually throw um two things so i got a new uh new thing i'm one project i'm launching in 2022. i mentioned earlier i'm gonna be running some hubspot courses i'm really excited about they're going to be similar to this um but really going step by step into like how do you build these things what are you building um and that's going to be at that site i just plugged in there mkt dot co um definitely check those out i got the first course i'm planning to launch in january if you're interested and i'm gonna grab my linkedin uh for you as well because i definitely want to to stay connected like definitely if you guys have questions or anything you want to follow up definitely drop into my inbox um it'll be a welcome change to a lot of the spam i know that a lot of us get on linkedin so be nice to have some conversations there [Laughter] awesome well if there's no more questions mike thank you so much for for joining us and i hope to hope to have you again next year definitely definitely yeah super excited yeah anytime you know i can help out just let me know yeah and uh on that note to everybody who's still here uh we are starting to plan 2022 so if there's some topics some things that you're trying to learn you're interested in feel free to share those in this chat real quick or you guys can always um email me i'll put my email in there um or or just reply back to one of the emails i'm probably spamming you with about upcoming events but yeah we this is a group for you not for uh not for us and so we want to make sure we hit topics that people want to learn more about um so i don't see any more anything in the q a i don't see anything else here in the chat so thank you everybody enjoy the rest of your day wherever you are or evening or night or morning um since this is now worldwide and again mike thank you so much for for your time today yeah thank you thanks for having me all right bye everybody