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my name is Clarissa I'm very happy to be here today thank you very much for having me before we start I saw on the meetup group that there was somebody who was worried they wouldn't be able to understand due to language barriers is that person here today no okay great I was going to say that I speak a little bit of French so if you have more questions and you'd like me to explain later in French I will try my very best to be AC okay so um the topic of my talk today is a smarter lead management basically the question of how to organize your contacts efficiently so that all the fish you catch in your Nets actually stay in the Nets so why did I choose this topic I chose this topic because I work for a company called team leader team leader is an all-in-one CRM project management and invoicing software that helps small and medium-sized businesses to stay organized to manage their contacts build better relationships and collaborate with their teams in one single tool it's basically a tool that is supposed to help businesses to focus on what matters and increase their growth basically what our tool does is help you to avoid the situation you see here on the slide behind me it's that situation where you have are completely flooded with emails with phone calls with tasks with things you have to do chances are if you're here at the family you are either an entrepreneur already or you're thinking about opening a business at some point in your career and at some point in the stage of your startup you will be at a point where you are a little bit overwhelmed and it's completely normal because in the beginning stages you have very little time and very little resources that's why our biggest module is CRM and it's also the most important one so I would like to share some of our insights that we've learned along the way when it comes to manage your leads and with leads I don't mean clients who are already paying customers who already engaged with your business but leads our prospects I think in French the word is also possible if I'm not mistaken okay that's good if you guys are nodding that means I'm not wrong so let's start with a very general question what are your goals for your company or organization when I ask you this question think a little bit in your head about how you would answer so no matter what your business is whether it's disrupting a markets or whether you want to change the way people interact with each other or maybe you want to be the next best car sharing economy whatever it is I'm guessing that in order to achieve this goal you would have to do two things one of them is increasing your sales and the other one is increasing your growth but how do you go about doing that do you invest more into marketing or maybe into Google Adwords think about all of the marketing channels you may already use or the marketing channels you will use in the future this ranges from events from seminars for workshops to webinars to email marketing or maybe you buy your ads on Facebook whatever it is that you're doing it costs I'm guessing some money but why would you invest more when the problem actually lies elsewhere not enough leads are converted into paying customers so if you look at this slide here I'm guessing all of you know South Park is there anyone who doesn't know South Park if not you're you're missing out when I looked at this picture for the first time I thought okay the only four really important people in this picture are the four in the front Kyle Cartman Kenny and Stan but what about all those people in the back no matter how small your businesses no matter how little leads you have it's important to make sure you don't lose out on any opportunities so even if you think that these people in the back aren't important for you because at this moment they cannot help you with your business or they don't want your product or maybe they say sorry I'm not at a stage right now where I'm interested in buying your service you don't know what will happen in the future the girl with the red hair in the middle between kyle and cartman this could well be your next I don't know supporter of your crowdfunding campaign that you didn't know you were gonna do or it could be an investor who says no at this moment your business isn't interesting for me but it might be in the future or at someone who's willing to give you feedback on your product a potential user or it's a potential client someone who at the moment may not seem obvious to you as relevant for you and your company but it could be in the future whoops I hope so no matter how many leads you have in the funnel it's important to make sure you really don't let any of those proverbial fish in the net slip through I'm gonna work with a very general percentage here you can say that for most markets here's 5 and 10% of leads convert into clients and this is based on a survey that was done I think in 2013 so but quite up-to-date but I'm guessing that it's more or less the same nowadays 5 and 10% that's the number you want to increase you want to think about ways on how you can bring that up to maybe 15 or 20% so how can you increase those numbers in order to answer that question I think it would make sense to think first about the problems and the mistakes that most people are doing nowadays when it comes to lead management's the first biggest mistake in lead management is that there is no process now what do I mean with no process no process means no structure no plan and how to deal with leads that come into contact with your company if you have no process you probably follow up on leads haphazardly that means inefficiently a phone call here an email there maybe you promise okay I'm going to send you a message next week after I get back from Paris but maybe you forget maybe the lead tells you please reach out to me in March 2017 because by then I'm sure that I will need your product whatever it is you need a way to systematically structure how you deal with the leads that come into contact with you if you don't do that you have no goal to work towards you have no mistakes to correct you have no plan to implement your team will probably be working in different ways without an aligned plan without an aligned goal which means you will have to consolidate their efforts if your team is doing things unsystematic alee chances are it will probably come off as a little bit unprofessional because what she wants is to give an image to your potential clients and your paying customers that everything is going ing to plan that everything is aligned that everything is more or less consolidated the reason that you want to do this and the reason why you want to set up a process is so that you can make sure that every name in your database and I hope you do have a database if not you should have a database preferably with a CRM tool you want to make sure that each name in your database doesn't just stay a name because if it stays just a name you might as well just have them in your LinkedIn Network and if you're like me and I have well over one and a half thousand contacts I'm not going to remember what each and every person does what their background is where I met them how I could possibly collaborate with them in the future the second biggest mistake is improperly dredge astray ssin what does that mean yesterday I went to a conference here in Paris called salon days entrepreneur does anybody know it yeah was anybody there actually oh you were there okay great so I don't have to tell you that there are lots of people walking through those halls like a lot I stood there all day and I was constantly talking so since my job is basically to go around conferences and meet people network talk to them and fill my funnel with Li I usually come back with a suitcase okay maybe not a suitcase because we're not in madmen in the 1950s but a backpack with a huge stack of business cards and I actually do my stack is about this big but who were they who were these people who gave me their business cards what did we talk about what was their interest in my business maybe we came up with a way we can collaborate in the future or maybe we talked about something that I definitely should remember next time I get into contact with them whatever it is you need to make sure that you register your leads properly so you know the context in which you should approach them later I'm not gonna say that you only have one shot when it comes to leads because it's maybe not that traumatic but every shot counts so every point of contact you have with a potential lead is important you need to make the most out of each call out of each email you need to really curate your communication and your engagement with them to make sure that you maximize your efforts and to make sure that you know okay I am qualifying my own efforts I know that my approach is the right one and that I'm not wasting any time for me for my colleagues and for the potential lead an example of why lead registration could make sense could be for example okay you meet somebody who says in my case I'm I work for a company that does a CRM tool oh I didn't even start my business yet I don't need a CRM tool because I don't have contacts but I will start my business in June so if you can get back into contact with me and June I'd be very happy I think okay June that's not so far away I'll make a little note in my notebook but until June my notebook is probably going to be full of things of tasks of notes and things that I write down what if I forgets what if that lead then calls me and I don't remember who he or she is how embarrassing is that or if I ask the contrary question how great is it if a lead gets back into contact with you after a while you see the name in the email or the number and the phone call and you remember oh that's right in my CRM here I did my properly dredg astray ssin this person wants this these are his or her needs this is what we talked about and we met at Salon des entrepeneur in Paris back then in February that gives a much better customer service and a much better level of attention to the person that you're engaging with the third biggest mistake in lead management is that there's no reporting so the first time I heard the wart word reporting I was still studying and I thought oh that sounds like something super super boring and it actually is kind of annoying I agree but they say that the numbers tell the tale and in this case they really really really do with reporting I mean analysis I mean learning from the information you get and learning from your experiences how will you know where your problem lies in your sales funnel in your process if you don't do reporting if you don't analyze what happened in the past think about how amazing it would be if you could say okay the probability that this lead based on their business their needs how big the company is where you met them and how they got into contact with you is probably 50% that they will convert into a paying customer that could help you immensely to plan your future to plan how you structure the next steps how will you know what type of lead is even the best type of lead for you to convert so if you come into contact with a lot of people like we're here today at the family I'm sure all of you do something something different or maybe even something similar probably not all of you will be relevant to each other but if I get all of your business cards later and we talk about potential ways to collaborate I will know based on my previous experiences and based on the way I registered my leads and the way I analyze them that maybe you and you and you are most likely to convert into a customer for my business because I analyze the experiences that I had and one of the things I think is really important once you've had a process because now since we talked about process you will have had a process it's really important to see in which phase of your process a lead is most likely to convert that's something that you can work with something that you can optimize something that you can tweak the last thing that I want to mention in terms of reporting is that if you don't do reporting you will have no way of how do I say this diplomatically of setting up an actionable plan and with actionable I mean I don't just mean okay let's try and convert them let's try and make sure that they actually set up an account with my service or that they buy my product with actionable I mean what are literally the next steps maybe I want to get in contact with a lead after exactly five days after they signed up on my on my website why five days because I learned in my analysis that five days is the optimal time to reach out again and say hi knock knock how are you doing thank you for activating a demo or thank you for signing up for my newsletter can I interest you in I don't know an article can I interest you in a call should we continue to talk about your needs and how we can help you so to summarize the three biggest mistakes that people do when they manage their leads is not having a process not registering their leads and not analyzing and doing reporting based on their experiences so now that we've talked about the problems a little bit I'd like to talk about how the solutions and how to do it better the first step of setting up a process because it's the obvious solution to not having one is qualification what does qualification mean qualification is just a fancy word for filtering how do you set up a filter how do you go about doing that how do you define the criteria that you need to have and that you need to be aware of whenever you come into contact with a lead you can ask yourself a bunch of questions so these are just some examples some very standard examples that you can use but obviously you should customize this and personalize this ing to your business and what you're doing one of the questions you could ask is does this lead actually have a problem that we can solve because if you spend three hours writing emails doing phone calls and maybe doing a virtual demo online with a person who it turns out actually doesn't have a problem you can solve that's a lot of resources wasted the second thing is is this lead actually able to pay for our product or our service yesterday it's alone this entrepreneur I met a woman she came up to me and she said okay you have a GC on the progesterone the contact all it's cool so basically you're like sales force and I said no actually we're not like sales for sales forces focusing on one thing and for bigger enterprises we are actually focused on small and medium-sized businesses and we have a modular subscription bottle and she said yeah actually I was wondering that because I spent so much time at their stand and I was talking to them about my business and what I need and I was totally convinced and in the end they told me the price and I realized it's just completely not for me I can't afford it at this stage I have three people in my business I cannot afford to pay for the huge package that Salesforce offers because I am not qualified as if we're going to talk about qualification for this product the third thing is how is your lead currently solving or not solving his or her problem so to come back to the example of Salesforce if this woman came to me and she said listen I'm looking for a serum tool I actually have one right now wanted to organize my sales cycle and my funnel but it's too expensive for me then I know okay this person knows a lot about CRM tools but is paying too much so I immediately know which are the touch points I can say we offer you these functionalities for a lower price and for more flexibility that will hook them way more than if I just launched into a general demonstration and a general introduction about what my product or service does and the last two are quite quite obvious is there a willingness to change there was somebody yesterday who came to our stand and who yeah but I don't understand what's the value of your product exactly I said well the value is that it's all-in-one it's integrated you don't have to log in and out into three different tools to do your project management your CRM and your invoicing it's basically all integrated into one centralized solution and he told me well but I like to keep it separated I think it's good that I have to log into asana for my project management or I don't know exact online from my accounting and my bookkeeping in my invoicing I like that so then I think okay that's fair I'm not going to force you to change it I can only explain to you what the benefits are of centralizing it but if there's no willingness to change then this lead can more or less be filtered out still registered of course but filtered out and you move on to spend your time on the next lead and the last one is something that it's maybe not always important at the early stages of a company but it's something that I think can be very useful if you consider how can this lead be a multiplicator what can he or she or this company offer us in terms of reference word-of-mouth promotion or maybe advertising and maybe partnerships only after you have qualified someone as a lead you can really go after because they fulfill a certain set of criteria are they and they they can answer yes to a certain set of questions that you have defined beforehand only then do you go about and you follow up you delegate a task you set up a meeting or a demo or a Skype call or whatever it is that your process dictates not dictates but that your process suggests the second part about setting up a process is quite easy and that's setting up a lead journey so the word lead journey already basically says it all what you see here is very very simple and very general a new lead comes in the new lead is qualified you come into negotiation phase where you talk about price you talk about services you talk about deliverables then an offer is made and for as negotiated and then the leaders either won or lost the deal happens or it doesn't happen this is like I said very general if you have an e-commerce business your lead ring your lead journey is probably going to be a little bit different you will probably have a different touch point than let's say a catering service so you need to make sure that the process you come up with and the questions you ask to set up the process are customized to your business I cannot go into so much detail here because we're going to keep it quite general but if you want to talk to me about that afterwards you're very welcome to the tip you see at the bottom is something that we learned along the way so we are three years old we've scaled to three countries two more countries coming this year so within one and a half years we doubled the amount of employees and we're growing very quickly had we not had a process in the very beginning that considered the scalability we would not be where we are today and with scalability I mean how can you make sure that your system works no matter how high the number of clients or partners or leads gets you need to be able to handle it and to handle it efficiently because otherwise you'll just be drowning in work and you won't be efficient this here okay it looks very it looks very complicated but I'm gonna walk you through it very simply this is our sales structure this is how we work in my business and I'm gonna show this because it's really nice to see the the journey that elite goes through and how you structure and how you delegate responsibilities within your team so on the left side you have the markets here the markets here is responsible for bringing in the leads whether it's through contents or Adwords or events referrals promotion or marketing automation tools the marketer is the person who brings that lead in and gets him or her to activate a trial so in our case it's a trial because we have an online product right after the lead comes in and activates a trial the inside sales rep jumps in and connects with the lead he connects via a short call or a mail or a demo or whatever it is and maybe follows up with some illustrations with some advice with some more information on pricing after that once he's engaged with the lead and asked the questions that they that we have defined for us he's qualified once the lead is qualified it comes to a demo in our case that means a walkthrough of how our product works it's a one-hour call and we really explain ok this is how it works this is what you can do this is how you can integrate with different apps this is how you can use it for your business then the closer comes in the closer is the sales rep that is focused only on closing that deal and converting it into a paying customer so you see here that we have several responsibilities and several roles in our organization have structured their sales cycle and the lead process ing to what works best for us because this for us is very scalable after the lead has hopefully been closed by a virtual or a face-to-face demo he becomes a paying customer and then the customer success manager takes over and makes sure that they feel great and that they feel happy with our service and then this the the leaders or the customer in this case is trained by a webinars or touchless or a blog or a face-to-face conversation so if you look at this structure try and think about how your product and how your business would be set up to make sure that it's scalable so this is like I said an example of ours but it makes sense to visualize your path and to visualize your system the second thing obviously is to register your lead accurately how do you register them there are two kinds of data that you can register there's explicit data which are which is the name the email the language or currency the lead uses the phone number the country that he or she is based in then there's also implicit data implicit data is all of the information that you get when you read between the lines so in our case it's interesting for us to know what did this lead type into Google as a keyword to end up on our websites did they type in CRM tool optimized business or did they type in alternative to Salesforce or did they type in something else that helps us to curate the approach when we get into contact with the lead implicit data is also something that gives you information on the expectation of a lead for example the language if the language doesn't fit to your service or your product well that's an implicit piece of information that you should research and find out beforehand a tip that we have here is that if you work with let's say a form please fill out your name number and email address to subscribe to our newsletter or to request a demo or - I don't know set up a 14-day free trial accounts if you do work with things like that please make sure that the barrier is as low as possible because the more information a lead has to fill out the less likely he or she will fill it out right because let's face it we're all lazy nowadays the third thing I'd like to talk about is outbound lead so what our outbound leads most of what I've talked about right now is more or less inbound leads right people will come to your website people who come to your stand at a fair who give you their business card who sends you an email or maybe they ask for an introduction from someone in your network because they know that you work for your company that's an inbound lead an outbound lead is somebody that you actively go after it's someone that you reach out to someone that or a company that you think could make use of your product someone that you think could make use of a collaboration and who would be beneficial they might need even more attention because they didn't visit your website in their own maybe they are a passive so to speak so it's important also to understand how you deal with outbound leads as opposed to inbound leads and the last point obviously is to enrich your data and I think here and within the startup ecosystem it's not it I don't have to tell you how important it is to look at someone's LinkedIn profile see what they tweet about you know check out their social media profiles see if they maybe go to the same events and if there's someone in your network that knows them and who can give you advice or feedback on whether or not this company or this person is relevant for you one thing I'd like to add is that if you use a tool and then way this tool I don't necessarily mean our tool it would be great but if you use a tool make sure that you have the possibility of using something like a like a tag system or a segment system because when you're registering your leads and you want to make sure that your data is up-to-date you need to be able to add as much information in as a structured way as possible so the last points about analyzing your lead managements these are some questions here that I think are relevant for most businesses and most services how many leads actually came in in the first quarter how many were lost why were they lost in which phase of the cycle were they lost were they lost because you took too long to get back into contact or because your qualification system in your web form wasn't correct how many leads in males actually went and actually converted into paying customers maybe you'll see that it doesn't really help to send information via email maybe it only helps to get into contact with them personally and set up a meeting or go to their office and talk about and presents how you can benefit them and most importantly what are the pending actions how do you continue how do you move forward visualizing your customer journey is something I think that is quite obvious as I showed you before with that complicated slide with all the little boxes it helps you to visualize because you see immediately what the journey is and what the pending actions are and who is responsible for what so no matter how good you think your memory is it isn't make sure you have a process make sure you have a process from the beginning no matter how small you are and how little these are in your funnel the more efficient you are from the beginning the easier you will make your life in the end don't be afraid to get your hands dirty meaning don't be afraid to really really sit down and think about okay how can I register them so that I will pat myself on the back in one year and think oh thank god I wrote down that this person is very very insulted if I speak to them in French instead of in Flemish for example which is actually a real case we're a Belgian company and no really I'm not joking we're a Belgian company and as you know in Belgium you speak French and you speak Flemish ends with some leads it's very important that you don't call them and you speak to them in Natal lungs because they feel very francophone and they will not like that so if you register this in the beginning it will save you so much hassle and the last thing obviously is that reporting is annoying I know short term it's probably going to be something you don't really want to do because it doesn't help you right away but long term it's extremely essential and long term it's something that will help you to optimize your processes so I'm going to show you now some of the ways you can visualize your sales funnel so this is a screenshot of our tool you can see here I have a funnel report I see okay I have 322 new leads that came in 322 that activated a free trial but after activating the free trial I lost 14 those that were left over the 308 that actually came to the face of connecting with us of getting on a call with us out of those I lost a hundred and seventy eight and then I qualified them I lost 13 in that face I came to a meeting and now they're on hold and hopefully they will be converted however you can also see it this way you can see trajectory the the vault of the leads that were won and the leads that were lost ing to the date maybe you'll see okay it really really doesn't make sense to reach out to a whole bunch of people three days before Christmas or three days before Pinkston which is a German holiday because nobody will be in the office Oh am I missing something no that's right the other thing that could be quite interesting is the time to first action so these beautiful people in the top those are my colleagues from the sales team and I know immediately okay it takes your mark one day to get into contact with our with our leads it doesn't mean he's doing a bad job it may only mean that he has so many leads he cannot get into contact with them within 12 hours so then I know all right I'm not going to delegate this lead to jean-marc because I see it takes him already one day maybe I should give him but less lead so he can focus more on what he's doing and maybe I should speak instead to Niels who takes 17 hours on average to get into contact with them well and this is one of my my favorite visualizations because I think it's the most interesting thing why did a lead convertor not convert what were the lost reasons here you see okay they didn't get into contact after activating a free trial that's the biggest blue color on the right there about I don't know like 20% or so we're not a fits because we could not help them with their business because they didn't have a problem that we could solve the red part is timing we got into contact and on the at the wrong down the wrong day in the wrong phase of their business okay that's fair and then you have a bunch of other things this is super helpful for you because it shows you at one glance okay this is where why I'm struggling to maximize the number of sales that I'm converting now this is a different visualization of the different deal source so some of our leads come in through the website others through events like salon days entrepreneur yesterday some of them come in through partner websites or through a reseller or an affiliate and maybe some of them are outbound leads and use and then you know when you look at this okay only two deals were outbound so maybe I should focus more on my website and focus my time and energy into optimizing that rather than going out and spending a lot of efforts chasing after leads who probably don't want to get into contact with me right that's a bit fast so these are some ways of visualizing your lead management's that some tools offer including ours if you don't need that specifically and maybe you need something else it's important to think about how you want to work and how you want to achieve your goals of increasing sales and increasing growth think about the questions you need to ask when you come into contact with someone think about how you can never lose out on opportunity and think about how you can set up a cycle that makes it super easy for your team to know exactly what to do it doesn't mean your process has to stay that way forever you can always optimize it because that's what an allow analysis is for that's what reporting is for and in order to do reporting you have to do your registration rights so from the very beginning set up a process that is scalable and that helps you to achieve your goals so I'd like to just ask a question here how many of you have already started a business or want to start a business okay how many are already in the phase that your business has been created and you're just about to take off okay and how many of you use a CRM tool or a project management tool okay great so if there are some startups out there who are looking into investing some time and some effort into optimizing their process we have a start startups program meaning that you can apply if you fit a certain profile you're less than three years old and you build products or you have a your own tech product then you can be eligible to use our tool for six months for free no strings attached for all of our modules and that is CRM project management invoicing and ticketing you can talk to me about that after if it's interesting for you yeah that's my email address and that's the last slide if you have any questions feel free to ask them I'll be around for a bit afterwards thanks a lot well thank you very much and I wanted to know if it was possible to see the you website like the register registration page because you said you asked a client I can just open up a browser here right because you were actually saying that 320 people were did try the free trial and you you were connecting with them like you left only 14 people sorry that was an example so I just took it as an example because we it constantly changes every day right but yes of all of the people who activates we always lose some and we try to keep that number as low as possible and we do that by constantly evaluating constantly evaluating where we lost them when we lost them why we lost them so as you see here this is our websites maybe I should do it in in French to score some points with you guys so here we are this is our website's here you can click on one button and you fill out your name your surname the name of your company your phone number and your email that's it we could ask a whole bunch of other questions in the beginning to qualify them in this stage already we could ask do you already use a CRM tool how big is your company are you interested also in project management because we're also thinking ok maybe we can upsell we could get a whole bunch of information in the beginning but we don't do that because we know that the more fields you have here the less likely it is that someone will fill it out that's that's what she wanted to see right I don't think so no so you can fill out what you can just fill out your name and your your your surname and but you have to fill out your email so I'm not sure because I've actually never filled it out to myself I was impressed by the rate that was the only question do you know if yeah I mean that that's also something that it really depends on what kind of business you have and what kind of service so in Germany for example I can I'm German I work in the Berlin office I can say that people are very very careful with their data and with their data privacy so it would be very difficult for us to make it mandatory to fill out more than they really really need to fill out whereas in other countries it's maybe less of a barrier but that's something that you should figure out for yourself and maybe do some a/b testing it's a nice buzzword I can always bring in here at this point you know hi how do you do when your company are getting bigger you say your needs are between 7 and 13 people but yeah one of them will go and get big and when I read out 200 people how do you manage that do you are do your products fit with bigger company so our products as I said is focused more on the needs of small businesses but obviously small businesses if they're successful they also grow and that's a question we get a lot but the funny thing is is that for us we developed our tool and our product ing to the needs of our most of our favorite customers of the cost of the the of the customer type that we had the most so we saw very quickly oh okay somehow all of these creative agencies are using our tool because they like the ticketing function and then we have lawyers who really like the email integration and tracking function that goes straight into the CRM so we really focus the development of a product ing to that which is where which is why our tool is what it is today but when we did that in the beginning we were also still quite small now we've grown very much too I mean we've grown very quickly to about 50 people in a short amount of time so our needs are also changing that means that we have to think about ways in how we can accommodate the growth of our customers without overwhelming them with too many options so we do adapt our product our development team says ok alright we have two requests to implement this feature but we have a hundred and seventy requests to implement this feature and those hundred and seventy requests came from businesses that made that jump from start up to scale up so hmm maybe what we should do because they're the revenue that they bring in monthly or yearly or whatever makes up a majority of our yearly revenue it's worth considering to implement that change but that's something that's very very very specific to your product so if I think now that Twitter for example Twitter now has this function that you don't just have 140 characters you can write as much as you want I mean maybe not as much as you want but they probably went through months and months and lots of discussions whether they want to do that whether they want to change their product that much because what define them in the beginning was the limitation to 140 characters what defines us is the fact that we are extremely easy to use super intuitive you don't need a consultant to come and set it up you don't need to learn it you don't need to explain it to your team and then convince them to use it because you know I'm the same way if I don't understand a product and I don't understand it immediately I'm too lazy I'm just gonna be like yeah nope next I want one that I can just use right away so it's really worth thinking about what your core product is and what's your USP and if it's beneficial to you and to the majority of your customers to implement that change in our case we're very careful because we don't want to have a tool where you have a million different features that you really don't need we have what we do is we have some options that are not visible right away but if a client calls us and says hey actually I need to have this customized and and I really need this because otherwise I cannot send out my invoices or whatever then since we've already seen that before and it's happened to us several times but it's not the need of all of our customers it's not public but we will do it for you so also think about you know how much time it would take your developers or your your your business developers to implement that change whether it's worth the efforts and what the return on investment is thank you okay if that's it thank you very much for your attention feel free to write me an email or to come up to me later I'd be happy to chat thanks a lot snazzy you