Empower Your Education Institution with airSlate SignNow's Lead Nurturing System for Education

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foreign to another episode of level agencies test our girl podcast I'm your host for today Dale reads our digital marketing lead here at level today I have the honor of being joined by our very own Jeff robot team lead and Jenna Blue Door and Senior account director who worked together to lead the charge on one of our higher education marketing teams here at the agency when we sat down together earlier in the year and asked ourselves what are some of the top things that our higher ed clients are focused on right now being able to effectively nurture leads into students was very high on that list so that's what we're here to talk about today and with that I will welcome in Jeff and Jenna how's it going guys welcome back to the podcast thanks Let's uh let's dive right into it whenever we talk about lead nurturing in your mind what are we really saying here because I think a lot of the time whenever we say lead nurturing and from my my experience people automatically get their mindset into automated email which I know isn't the whole picture but in your mind what are we actually saying here whenever we say lead nurturing yeah I mean I can talk about that a little bit I think you're right people think lead nurturing and it's let's make some email drip campaigns maybe we send four emails we send them a week apart a couple days apart and we just call it a day see what the open rate was and measure lead nurturing can mean so much more than every vertical but especially in higher education if you're not nurturing your leads with a multi-channel approach that includes a lot of things we're going to talk about today from email to text to push notification to paid search to paid social and everything in between then you're missing out on leads that you already have and therefore you're really decreasing the amount of students that you're going to have months in seats as we'd like to say in education so you already have these leads whether they're new leads they're age leads they're somewhere in between and if you're not capitalizing on that then you're just kind of letting all of the money that you spent to get those leads go to waste so the biggest portion of lead nurturing is really understanding what you already have before you start to think about tactics so Jeff do you want to talk a little bit about like the audiences and how we can kind of dive into those before we talk tactics yeah first Jenna thank you for saying that phrase butts and seats so the preview can have your face associated with that subtitle instead of mine um and and before I start talking about audiences I just want to sort of scale or give give a sense of scale of what we're talking about and how important lead nurturing is um when we talk about diversifying and making sure that you're meeting them where they are not just an email not just in phone calls or SMS texting we implemented a wide variety of digital marketing initiatives Beyond those things to one University who had a top tier high high quality call center email strategy with um you know program specific drip campaigns and dynamic emails um and we pushed creative we targeted the right people in Social and display and doing that in conjunction with email and everything else that they were doing raised in roll rates by 60 percent imagine if you could do something and get 60 more business imagine if you do anything you get 60 more business that's what genuinely that's what we're talking about now I'm not promising that obviously not Garrett sixty percent rise in enrollment rate guarantee it's not what I'm doing here but that's what we're talking about it can be very impactful um and the audiences are small so the audiences are just the leads you have and you can segment them I would if you can if you have enough segment them by program segment them by campus if you have different campuses segment segment them by need so when I talk about campus and program like somebody going to a campus in Florida is going to have very different needs and somebody going to a campus in Colorado right um but also if they have different needs financial aid considerations things that people are talking about break out your audiences in that way but if you've got 15 000 twenty thousand five thousand leads you're only advertising to those people now your cpms are going to be high but it's gonna be super cheap because these audiences are hyper narrow and you know exactly the kind of messaging to send to them because you have all the information already so imagine if your prospecting efforts were like that you knew exactly what your prospects needed a hundred percent and you knew you were targeting the right people 100 of the time that's what this is doing that's what nurturing is doing and it's such a tiny audience the costs are really effective and the messaging is really effective because you're hitting them exactly where you know they need to be and you can get even more specific than that right too like you can do campus and program which you can also do the time length that they were involved with the admissions process so somebody who just came in is going to need different messaging than someone who's been sitting and one thing that we found is that we shouldn't discount leads that have been sitting for more than a week two weeks even 90 days a year now these longer term campaigns are going to look so different than anything for new leader Dre but it's something where we already have this valuable asset of all of these leads that are just sitting around we may as well use them now the tactics are going to be different the messaging strategy is going to be different but the outcome won't and so like what Jeff is talking about you know segmentation is key we don't want to over segment I will caution on that one point like you need to have lists that are large enough to serve if you're using digital and then from an email starting you need to have or text strategy you need to have a list that's large enough to make a measurable impact you know you need to be able to say that this lift actually did something and so we'll talk about measurement strategies but don't get too caught up in segmentation for your audience when you start but try to make meaningful groups that have been significant and upsized to be able to measure against I think that's a really good call out on a really segmenting because it can look really good on paper right like we're going to take all these let's say 10 different segments that all downloaded a different piece of content or something or or within a certain stage of the enrollment process and you're like wow this is we're going to be able to hit them with the exact right messaging at their exact right time and then you do it and you're like oh there's 15 people in this audience we can't actually dealing yeah you can do that in email you can't do it you can't do it in other spots so yeah it's a really good really good point yes I also wanna I also just wrote you know she talked about creative and and I won't get too deep into that because I'm sure we'll talk about it but um the the way that you target them um is going to be based on the information you have but the messaging strategy that you have um is also going to depend on what their needs are and those needs are going to be different by how you segment them they're also going to be different by like your institution your University your college because like their needs and what they need for the next stage is going to depend on what you're already giving them and what you're already focusing on and maybe they don't need financial aid information because you've already given that to them five different times right so maybe you need to change a messaging so and obviously all of these things that we're gonna say we're going to try to be as as uh General as possible so it applies to you as much as possible but you're going to obviously need to tailor all of these things to your own institutions um challenges and successes and maximize your strengths and and Tackle those barriers that you usually face when you're when when people are calling prospects on the phone or when you're emailing folks yeah that's true Jeff I think it's important too to draw a line between segmentation what we were just talking about in personalization because segmentation and personalization are two completely different things so you need an appropriately segmented audience right that we need to know who these people are they need to be a large enough list they need to be specific enough to be meeting fall and to work across different platforms and channels but then personalization is where that creative comes into play and that's where that messaging concept like you're saying comes into play but also where AI can come into play I know we talk a lot about AI on the podcast they talk a lot about chat gbt and a million other different platforms but there are so many different tools that we can use today to personalize messages more than ever before and that means I don't have to overly segment my audience because I'm personalizing my messages sometimes using Smarter Tools like AI but also just using some basic copywriting techniques to really get at the pain points of these people then we can also use things like Dynamic insertion to make things more personalized and we could use personalized video and a million other tools but for a lack of uh you know we don't want to get into every single tactic but that personalization is going to be a really important part no matter what tactic groups definitely so as you can see just from the first 10 minutes of this podcast nurturing is much more than just email and the way that I try to think of it is like it's a stage in the customer Journey right like you're really it's your opportunity to impact the consideration and decision phase because people are already engaged with the brand and you add information on them to figure out how to influence a decision which is all the things that you guys just described right personalization segmentation how they interacted with you what information do we have that we can get in a re-engagement strategy to continue to push them through the student jury so um we started getting the tactics a little bit I know that there is an endless list of tactics that you can possibly do but at a base level right for someone who's listening to this and they're like damn we really are just doing automated email in some like automated text maybe not even text message so but what should they be doing what should they be testing into first at a very basic level yes I think you want to think of it as an ecosystem and you want to evaluate the strength and the completeness of your ecosystem as you add in different parts so if you're only doing email right now maybe let's add in something that's similar to email but augments it through text message and so then we've created a little bit more of an ecosystem it's two different tactics that kind of agree that we're trying to create a type of Journey or bubble around our potential student or our user and so when we're adding in text we're reaching them in one more place and then once we have that in whether we're using a CRM or an automation flap or whatever it is once we have that built out it's all working together it's passing data back and forth we're able to report that on and holistically then let's add in one more thing maybe let's add in some display so that that gets filtered into that journey and it's another great touch point and we can even more accurately report on the entire nurturing ecosystem not just email and how we're lifting students overall then if displays is working great let's add in some social social a little bit more complicated we have more creative date we have more assets we have more campaign building budget management regular campaign optimization we can actually then start to do a real lift test so so let's add social and we'll have displayed we'll have text we'll have email and then you have a pretty complete ecosystem and then you can start to really experiment with more tactics you can add in some push notifications if you wanted to test something new you could add in a grounded personalized video if you wanted to where it's it's actually seeming like you're reaching out to a student one-on-one what you're doing is trying to build a really solid base and then just adding different testing elements on top of there so if you only have email that's no problem let's just add one more thing and let's test in between it but that's enough for you and that's doing a crazy lit let's stay there until we're seeing the point of diminishing returns it doesn't have to be a six tactic Suite right off the bat it can be two things and that can be plenty for your audience because we're communicating with them in different ways that we were before definitely and I imagine like you you know you kind of laid it out in three to four steps there like maybe you can just test into some text message maybe moving this way then you mentioned social I imagine that has some Nuance there too depending on what kind of school you are and that also brings it back to the segmentation piece before right so what are some things that schools should be considering whenever they're trying to because we say social there's a lot of social platforms how should you be thinking about Which social platforms might be right for you um there there's a gen like you said it can depend on the institution the programs you have if you have doctorate primarily doctorate programs you're focusing on the program of choice is probably going to be a little bit different than if you're doing Associates only or trades programs or um but it you know we could we can go into stereotypes and that sort of thing but I think the most valuable um uh for me if you're lucky enough to be on present on a lot of social platforms is to see where your potential audience is already engaging with you so if you have really great engagement on Tick Tock but not so much on the meta platforms then maybe you focus on Tick Tock content or SnapChat or whatever it is I mean don't obviously don't discount the other platforms but if you had to pick and choose a budget um or would you focus creatively on um then take a look at what social program or what social platforms um you're already getting really positive either organic or paid engagement from and go from there that would be my my starting point to make that determination yeah yeah I use your existing like Jeff is saying like that's an awesome idea because you're already you're familiar with it but then you also want to just make sure you have a really strong hypothesis we're saying you know social specifically meta is going to impact retention and this is how we're gonna do it or impact um overall volume lift and so we're gonna we're gonna do a formal experiment and we're gonna advertise against a group of people and we're not going to advertise against the rest and we're going to see which ones convert more of leads that we already have and so you're using that platform as a tool but your hypothesis is guiding you and so you're not just randomly adding tactics and tools into the mix you're thinking all right first I want to see how this population reacts like just saying the population already lives in this platform so it's optimized on that and then let's have a hypothesis that guides us through the measurement I think it's a good segue into the measurement piece how do you tell it's working you have more students I mean like yeah like if the goal is to get more students or get more enrolls or whatever whatever measurement strategy would normally use for is my admissions team doing the right kind of job use the same kind of measurement strategy for this the difficult part for what most institutions use at least in my experience what most institution use is they use like a last click measurement strategy so if I got a lead from Paid search and they become a student they're always going to be credited with paid search even though email touched them even though I called them right my calls don't get credit paid search gets credit and that's what makes sense because that's what I'm trying my marketing my Prospect of marketing is what's trying to drive it um and you also don't want to rely on Direct interaction and engagement because a lot of times our goals for these things aren't become a lead because already lead why would they fill out another lead form doesn't make any sense I don't have a compelling reason to do that so I mean the content the call to action is all different so how do I measure that and it's really about classic scientific method of control and experiment so the way that we've found the most success is you set you have your list let's say we have 50 000 students or 50 000 leads that we want to work right and we say okay some percentage let's say 50 50. 25 000 of them are going to be set in my control group and I'm I'm going to randomize it but 25 000 of them are just set aside they're never going to get advertising advertisement that's my control and then my experiment is over here another 25 000 students and I'm going to take that list physically you know it gets hashed and all of that stuff but it goes into meta it goes into gdn it goes into wherever you're putting it right and then you advertise that experiment maybe you even go so far as to say okay the control list I'm going to actively negate from from my advertising just in case right um make sure your targeting is clean and then um you measure the impact of okay what did the leads and the experiment do what did the leads and the control do and if they're different you could say well they were completely randomized so the only major difference that I can measure is that we showed them advertising in this platform where we nurtured them in a different way and that's why we see the lift right so that's what how we get the figure of you know if we did advertising and meta and gdn against these leads their enroll rates increased 60 because the experiment was 60 more likely to become an enroll than the control you set your time frame so I'd recommend at least a couple months you're not going to learn anything significant in two weeks unless you are Ecom or something like that where the turn rate for these things to a sale are like a day but because you have a maturation cycle a natural maturation cycle from when a lead comes in versus when they actually enroll you want to make sure you give these lists enough time to actually have an impact and you measure and you Monitor and you optimize and then you see okay after three months let's say three months right after three months what did the experiment do and that's how I know it worked and then we say okay it works let's do it for all of the leads and we know it's going to continue to work and then you optimize towards engagement and those sorts of things but ultimately it's about control experiment how did the experiment do at the same time and then that's how you're going to learn how effective your efforts are in one metric two that I think gets were gone and sometimes it's time to convert I think nurturing can really help with that you know if you have a time to convert that's really long especially if it's in higher education it's a really big investment right we're asking students to do a lot they're giving a lot of money or asking for a lot of financial aid they're changing their future this is not just to purchase a product this is to change their lives and so we can't lose track of the site of what higher Ed's trying to do but we know that time they can virtually important because we need to be able to set specific classes we need to be able to understand like what the financial model is along the way so we can look at time to convert as an indicator as well so like the experiment they're just talking about is the core of nurturing measurement we have to be doing that but if we're looking at if we add in nurture touch points along the way is the student more likely to convert in two weeks instead of in four weeks um that would be a really awesome thing to be able to tell and then there's going to be a point of diminishing return on those touch points because we don't want to be the ever present always their voice in the back of the student's head we just want to be guiding them along the jury so it's going to take some testing it's going to take some learning to get there but you're able to look at a lot of different directional measurements as well as your core lip test to tell how your program is working down the line that makes a lot of sense um talking about that in B2B a lot to like leading indicators of success um you know the time to conversion reminds me of like looking at time to close for B2B companies But ultimately the goal was revenue and the same goes for here the ultimate goal is more students and then Jeff I know we talked a little bit about the measurement piece sorry a previous episode where we were talking about lips from awareness efforts and I know you'd mentioned you know if you don't want to go to market and completely disclude 50 of a certain audience I know you've also taught like if you have multiple canvas locations that is an option too um I'm trying to remember is there anything else from that episode in terms of like methods for measuring outside of pulled out tests that that we talked about yeah I mean you can do it Geo split but the concern I would have with the Geo split in this particular test is because it's such a niche audience and their needs are so different if you're if you're splitting Colorado with Florida um it could be your results could be that the experiment got the experiment treatment so about nurturing versus control but it could also be that Florida's prospects are just different than Colorado prospects right so you just run the risk of um if it's not a truly randomized split you run into the um you run into the risk that there's a third a tertiary variable impacting the results and that's why you do statistical analysis and those sorts of things to try to determine what the impact of things that are outside your Patrol are having but if you do a truly random split um then you can minimize quite a bit of that and the reason that it's so strong in nurturing versus awareness is we can actually effectively measure who is in the experiment randomized versus the control you could try like an awareness you could try to limit your audience to only a 50 impression share but it would be impossible near impossible to measure okay who of my leads actually saw a display ad versus dis didn't especially in this more and more cookie-less world you could probably do that pretty effectively five years ago but no longer um do you have that many great Advanced systems that can reliably do that as much as meta may want you to believe otherwise so that would be sort of my recommendation you know you can do lift studies but that's really about an awareness strategy I think I just um you know there's also sales some crms like Salesforce have great attribution systems that say like um this audience member this lead is in this category of lead types and so like how many touch points did they get based off of the emails you're sending through Salesforce um so those systems can be really powerful as well but I think the simplest and probably best um strongest statistical story you're going to be able to tell is that control and experiment split and it doesn't have to be scary I know some clients will come to us and say but we're not advertising the 50 of them and they're not converting then they're just getting left there we don't want to neglect the 50 that arcing the tree meant they're still getting the normal admissions process it doesn't always have to be 50 we want to it needs to be substantial so we're not going to do a 10 and 90 percent split but we can probably argue for a 60 40 or maybe even at 70 30 just depending but we need to be able to give them enough time to actually make the meaningful decision and I know it can be so hard when you're thinking it like you're an admissions director or your campus director I just need more students I have all these leads that are sitting here let's just advertise to all them I totally understand that instinct because you just have this resource the problem with that is and you're just never going to know what the actual impact was and you're not going to be able to iterate off of that so we can't just blast them all again because that's not going to work so I understand how hard it can be but I also know how important the patience is and making sure we have a true experiment we have a holdout group and then for the media people listening to this it's really important that we keep those lists clean I can't emphasize enough how important it is that we keep those segmentations pristine they need to be randomized they need to be pristine and they need to not be mixed at any point in time we can't judge the efficacy of the test without it and it can be hard from a data management perspective for any like data nerds and media nerds listen to this podcast it's challenging but possible and then you know a lot of times my clients will ask well what if new people get added to the list we can always rotate new people into the list we just need to keep our crane split we need to keep our randomized sample we need to keep our same variables for our list so list management super important patients really essential to success here and just an understanding that if this works or if I should say when this works it's going to be so impactful that it will have been worth it to wait and do the test properly for for admissions directors out there you know that just a one add-on to Jenna's Point um if you do it time over time so if you do before the test versus after the test and that's all you rely on it's going to be harder to control for seasonality it's going to be harder to control for maybe my admissions rep Bob had an amazing big butt um Kick Butt month or three months right or all this hiring all the script changes we did in the same time period really paid off you're going to look at all the things that happen and say I don't know what actually had the biggest impact I don't know what's actually worth continuing to go down and you won't be able to measure that effectively to your board when your board says hand spending a couple thousand bucks on on this nurturing stuff and I paid my agency ten thousand dollars to create all this credit was that worth it and you're gonna say Well it improved but you're not going to be able to say by how much in the actual Roi behind it so that's again why the why the split the other thing that I'll call out for the marketing people there is Google is going to default to expanding the list all of the platforms are going to default too hey you're only targeting two 2 000 people we should really Target a million people so let me default to targeting to a million people because Google meta they're all sort of motivated to advertise to more people so that you spend more money right so just double check triple check QA have somebody else look at it look at spend later but make sure you're not accidentally expanding those audiences make sure you're using the right audiences like like Jenna said because the moment it doesn't happen you've got to go to a different measurement strategy because you've you sort of have to go back to the drawing board from from what you had originally which was the control and experiment yeah can you tell Jeff and I have been burned by this before foreign it's like when you do a remarketing campaign and it's like are you sure you only want to Market to people who've been to your website because I've got another million people who would be interested in your pot like no that's different that's somewhere else let me do the send your money if you'd like no thank you and speaking of money too the budgets on these are gonna be pretty small and so if you're a media buyer and you're estimating a budget you know you can lean more conservative more safely but the nurturing campaign because of the size of the audience and just because of the level of tactic that we need to reach these people like we said we're not expanding the audience we're not running these huge campaigns it's very targeted and then from a university side when you're thinking marketing budget where you're allocating a lot of your spend here is to the creative and build lift that it takes to make these things but then also the measurement part it's really important that we have a tool that can look at this all holistically like the more we can do in one environment the better it is for this and then the the people hours it takes to analyze the data is getting less because of the of different AI that we can use to help but there also is some human intervention that is needed there so from a university side when you're I didn't think a lot about the people time that it takes to make this happen and from a media side make sure you really understand the size of these audiences before you put together an estimate for budget it's a really good point I think that ties in a little bit into something you said earlier around patience like I would imagine that you have to have some challenging conversations and it's hard to be patient when you're spending a lot of money towards people time and not as much on media dollars and it takes a little bit to see results um how do you navigate that like we talked a little bit about leading indicators as a success I imagine this is where that conversation is going to go but it it's got to be hard for schools like commit to that and stay patient how do you navigate those conversations it's hard especially when we always have a deadline um there's always a time where we need a certain amount of students by I think being proactive is one thing that really helps with it these programs take time and you need to have submission time to build them and start them and then the other thing is having clear expectations and Jeff loves to talk about this we need to know how we know it's going to succeed but we also need to know how it's going to fail we need to be keeping ourselves accountable to not only success but to failure through different checkpoints along the way so we're not going to be able to tell you that a nurturing campaign is successful at two weeks but we can tell you is that it's spending appropriately that the audience is engaging with it and that they're taking the actions we want them to if we've been running this thing for two weeks and it's spent one dollar and no one's clicked on it or no one's opened the email there's probably something going on that we need to look into so that a two-week checkpoint that's a really great indicator and a four-week checkpoint that's going to be different not only are we interacting and we're spending but we should see some conversations start to happen with these engaged leads so that's going to be really valuable to get feedback from our friends and missions because this is not just a marketing effort this is an admissions and marketing effort in the truest form so that was what four weeks might look like six weeks is going to be all that and more we're going to start to tell some more leading indicators of time to convert maybe and maybe a little bit of lift there and then as we get into our true measurement period we have enough significant data to make that lift then we're holding ourselves accountable we need to revisit our hypothesis we need to make sure we're doing the lift that we said we were going to do and if not let's talk about how we're going to iterate I know a lot of my clients and a lot of people are props higher editor like it's not working turn it off we could do that for sure and if it's bad enough we should do that and we should wreck it and we should rebuild I have seen that situation very few times most of the time it needs some tweaks but it doesn't need completely wrecked and rebuilt and that those tweaks can look like Cadence that's a really big one the Cadence not only of the messaging but of the tactics maybe you're sending too many texts back to back where you need to break that up and give display and social a little bit more of a time period that can also look like audience split it can look like spend it can look like messaging there's a lot of different ways to tweak but that's the learn and grow part of Tesla grow right we can't just stop we need to know what succeeded and what failed so that we can iterate there was a lot there and I'm just going to emphasize one point that she made which was you need we need to know when we're successful but we also need to know when we're gonna fail so like she said I love talking about expectation setting and the very beginning of the test especially for something as sensitive as hey we're trying to really impact enroll rates set expectations for what failure looks like and when you're going to pull a plug so like you can talk to a client and say if it looks bad enough we're going to pull the plug and if I were the if I were a client I would say okay what is what does bad enough mean right like what are we talking about here and then you can say hey success looks like enroll rates increased X percent and you can calculate it based on how much they spent and then how much an enroll is worth and then you know what are the normal rates then I got this many extra enrolls because I nurtured and it paid for itself you know something like that right but for failure metric do you mind today and roll rates in the experiment dropped 25 for the last like two weeks or while the tests ranked it just as an example random example you got to do the math but it's just really important just like call your shot and all of these things and people always talk about kpi setting like what is the most important metric we're gonna see for did this work but you also need early and for everybody to agree on what is a threshold for us knowing this is not working and we truly need to pull the plug or change something very different based off what's happening because it it might do worse it might look worse just from random chance for the first two weeks right so you might look at and say the experiment has an enroll rate of five percent less than the control but it's only been two weeks so it's probably just a coincidence right so you need to make sure that you're setting like I said those expectations of this may look weird for the first little bit and that's why we recommend a three month period but if it looks weird to this extreme that's when we're gonna start making some pretty hard decisions yeah and then accountability is so important on both sides like I always tell my team I also tell my students when you're talking to clients and you're working together you're both working towards the same goal so we have our expectations on our side they have their expectations on their side those things need to align and we need to both believe in the measurement or portion of this like we both need to have metrics that we're holding ourselves accountable to and that we believe in because at the end of the day data and data tactics are tactics but we are believing in the solutions that we're putting forth for potential students and so if we both have something that we feel passionate about that we are accountable to this program is going to be so much more successful than if we're just saying yeah we're going to nurture some students we're going to throw some texted emails at them we're going to measure see if there's a lift and at the end of the day call it this is something where it takes investment from a people perspective on both sides so you get successful can't tell you how many not for nurturing this area but I can't tell you how many tests that Jenna and I have done where we came to the conversation we didn't prepare to say this is what success looks like or failure looks like for this test with the client we ran the test everybody felt good but we had a little bit of like not a hard sell alignment on the measurement we came back four weeks later and said hey we think this knocked it out of the park your cpl's dropped X percent your cost for enroller better and the client says I don't I actually don't agree because my cost per student is worse or that's that's all great but click-through rate is way worse and wouldn't you say the ad really needs to get a better clicker and then like then you're like you look like an idiot because a not everybody's on the same page and B you're celebrating well the client is like feeling miserable about what happened so again setting that expectation and not just from the agency side but the client side like work with your agency to make sure that you guys all agree on what success looks like here and you're not assuming everybody's on the same page we have it like literally written down and you're revisiting it every time you talk about it shared goals shared Vision it's so important and it might seem kind of silly like you're sitting listening to a party after listening to these three random people talk about share goals and vision it sounds so businessy and so formal but even if it's a tiny test it really matters because that test is Meaningful we wouldn't do it if it worked we're not just random testing we're only testing things that are meaningful so even if it's small it's meaningful so client buy-in from the marketing side but also from the admissions side we need to missions to evolve into this this impacts them directly and then on our side media buy-in creative buy-in account buy-in essential to success you cannot skip that step because you could skip this do everything else right in the end it's going to be a fail test foreign you know I think that's a really good point just to tie this all together like it's a lot it's a big investment from your marketing team your admissions team your agency partner if you have one it's a lot from a strategy and tactics and messaging and segmentation data measurement and I think that's why we wanted to talk about it today because I think like we said at the beginning a lot of people think it's just let's just do some automated emails and some text messages but to really do this right it takes a big investment a lot of brain power this was really great uh if this resonated with anybody listening out there please hit us up at level agency at level dot agency we're always happy to hop on a discovery call and listen to what you're struggling with and talk about ways that we could potentially help um so if you made it this far thanks for listening until next time connect with us on LinkedIn YouTube we're always sharing insightful content around how to make your business your school grow faster and smarter through Performance Marketing and Jeff Jenna thank you so much again for joining it's always great having you guys on thank you