Streamline Your Enrollment Process with airSlate SignNow's Lead Qualification Funnel for Higher Education

How to create outlook signature

welcome to changing higher ed a podcast dedicated to helping higher education leaders improve their institutions with your host Dr Drum mcon CEO of the change leader a consultancy that helps highered leaders holistically transform their institutions learn more at changing higher ed.com and now here's your host drum mcna thank you David Our Guest this week is Gil Rogers founder and CEO of gr7 marketing Gil is a strategic innovator in the field of Education technology marketing and he assists edtech companies in improving their marketing messaging and articulating their unique value all things that most highered institutions need help with Gil has been able to observe the enrollment process in-depth over his years in edtech and he joins us today to talk about how the enrollment processes have changed that are changing and how colleges and universities can improve their marketing messages and their enrollment funnel to combat the negative perceptions of higher education and the upcoming enrollment Cliff to improve their actual enrollment and persistence rates Gil welcome to the show thank you for having me I'm looking forward to an amazing conversation today me as well I mean you've been doing this you've been in higher ed for quite a number of years and you've got a very unique perspective given your background in marketing both inside higher ed with Ed Tech as well as outside if you wouldn't mind just give us a bit of your background so listeners can understand what I've come to learn about one of the experts in the field absolutely well I started my company gr7 marketing a little over a year ago uh a big part of that was I came to the realization after are working in edtech specifically in marketing roles for probably 15 years or so that most edtech companies specifically small and mediumsized startups are always looking to add marketing effort but unfortunately because of their size when they get to when they start to invest in bringing in marketing leadership they put all their resources into that role and then don't have enough to be able to actually do the rest of the marketing plan that marketing leader would then want Implement so serving as a fractional CMO for a number of edtech companies and startups I'm able to help them with their B2B marketing strategy without soaking up the full-time resources of a VP of marketing or head of marketing type role so they can deploy those resources to advertising and conferences and sales team incentives and all the things that they would need but prior to all of that I've worked in higher ed and edtech as you mentioned my whole career I started as an emissions counselor at my Alma moer where I traveled and did the whole Road Runner thing as an admissions counselor visiting high schools going to college fairs all that sort of fun stuff and then I went to a school about 40 minutes down the road to continue that as a progression of my career then I went into the tech side and the Consulting side so I worked in lead generation and digital marketing and uh a number of the different tools and resources that institutions still use to this day for everything from identifying students online advertising to students online hosting virtual events and digital content worked in all of those different spaces but one of my passions throughout this entire experience has been continuing to work with colleges and universities as closely as I can to help with leveling up those types of strategies and one of most recent things I've been thinking about a lot working on a lot is kind of revisiting conversations around recruitment of traditional undergraduate students especially with a lot of the challenges that are arising today so to bookend all of that I've been excited working in that space and supporting institutions as we go well having that background starting out in enrollment and then moving on to to higher and higher roles it gives you a unique perspective on what's going on with higher ed enrollment I mean right now when you and I were talking earlier this week there is a triple whammy going on between the reputation of higher education enrollment Cliff affordability issues and then for good measure just throw in the FASA problems that they've had you to me had a really unique perspective about the enrollment funnel and how it's been broken for so long yeah I think one of the things and I I think for everyone it's probably a good idea to Define kind know what we mean by an enrollment funnel many probably already know and have a good understanding but you know if we think about the traditional process of attracting students to our institution we have a large population of students that we seek to engage and reach and that's the top of our funnel is that Prospect or suspect phase and traditionally what we've sought to do is qualify those prospects in some way get them to say they're interested in our institution and then we call those students inquiries and from that bucket of students at that level we get a certain number of those students to apply of that we admit a certain volume of them and then of that those students actually enroll at the institution and then we have conversations about retention and persistence that is a whole separate podcast that we could talk about but I think the the the model of a funnel while the visual of a funnel makes it easy to understand how students are are kind of going through our traditional processes the the reality is that the the funnel has been broken for quite some time a decade maybe two right um you know there are onramps and off-ramps that students might take throughout that funnel what the student is going through they might leak out a crack at the inquiry to applicant phase and then return deeper down the funnel or they might not even inquire at all they might just apply directly or send a FAFSA directly and so what's happened is that we've seen institutions who and processes where we want to fill those cracks right but those cracks are gaping holes and at the end of the day we're putting so much effort and time into getting more and more and more at the top when we should be really thinking about how do we make a better process at the top that is automated especially with AI and all of the different opportunities that we have for efficiencies and redeploy our resources of people to the the high impact work and I I'll give you one really good example right when I was an admissions counselor at a traveling the road visiting three to four high schools a day going to college fairs every night Monday through Thursday sometimes on weekends I answered the same questions over and over again what's your average GPA score G what's your average what's your average SAT score what's your average GPA how's your English program right it doesn't really matter if it's me or some random talent that we hired to be the person at the table at the college fair answering those questions because that interaction isn't of high value where my value is and if I'm an admissions counselor is when a student visits campus and I'm the one greeting them helping them to find the place they need to be connecting them with a student and their major answering the family's direct questions about finances these are things that we don't want to automate because that's not where the value is and that's not where the interactions are but all those basic and redundant questions at the top are a missed opportunity right now and it's been that way it's it it still is that way today and it was that way 15 years ago when I was in ad missions counselor and so something is broken something's got to give when it comes to how we are reaching and engaging and supporting students throughout the funnel help me out and help me to understand you talk about gaps becoming gaping holes when you say a gap in the enrollment funnel what do you mean so think about it this way there are three to five vendors that institutions are actively using to cultivate names of students right we call it traditional search we call it lead generation right these are places where students are researching Camp colleges or replying to surveys about college or taking standardized tests and saying they're interested in going to college and the reality is that the majority of Institutions are all going after the same pockets of students within those lists and so the students are being inundated with email direct mail and advertising from every school that buys their name and they can only go to one school and so at the end of the day when everybody's going after the same population of students meanwhile that population that traditional population is shrinking because of the demographic Cliff now you've got a challenge of having to deal with bringing the trying to identify and bring the right students into your funnel and it's not going to happen just by buying their test score right and so you get these students who are not necessarily a good fit into the top of your funnel and they completely Hemorrhage out and don't become inquiries because they're not a good match for your institution or you're spending so much of your people time trying to squeeze water out of a rock from those lists to get that one additional inquiry who doesn't apply anyway and so now you've got this challenge of at each phase of the funnel we're having smaller conversions which means we have to buy more name to get to the number we want at the bottom and that's not a good recipe all that does is add to our operating cost it adds to our staff resourcing in time sifting through blank names and Records when what they should be doing is focusing on the students who are who are right in front of them and at the phase where they can make the most impact I I did a research study a number of years ago it was teens talk it was with States at the time with a partnership when I was working at CH and we we asked students about important and meaningful interactions and it was an unpopular part of the presentation but we pointed out that admissions counselors have very little impact on a student's perspective of the institution when they're just doing general research of schools where they make the most impact is when that student is admitted and now is looking for resources looking for support and unfortunately because of the way we've set up our our process admissions counselors are focusing too much of their time trying to get more applications instead of focusing on getting more of those applications to be completed and more of those admitted students to ultimately enroll and so when we I talk about gaping holes in the funnel it's because we're focused on the wrong effort and the wrong groups of students where that negatively impacts conversion and yield through the from the middle and the bottom of the funnel okay that makes really good sense now thinking about it from the perspective of open enrollment right now which is a big thing students Supply there's a standardized application process that goes out to multiple colleges does that help or hurt the funnel yeah so I think one of the popular approaches right now and kind of gaining traction is things like direct admission right and direct admission being a process where institutions identify key characteristics and key requirements that a student needs to meet and if they meet those requ requirements they're automatically admitted into the institution so on its surface it sounds like a great idea right I think if it it reduces the stress and anxiety of a student if they know they have a certain test score they know they have a certain GPA and they know they're interested in a specific program they can kind of know all right this school is a fit for me or not the the challenge is that you know when institutions are are leveraging these types of services to me it feels like really expensive lead generation because what's happening is that institutions are buying lists just like they they've been doing from different providers they're just called a different phase and then unfortunately what happens is because our systems are are not quite caught up to this concept yet these quote unquote admitted students are inserted into our communication flows and our CRM and they're not treated any differently and so then they don't yield at the same rate and so they they don't yield at a rate that is really commiserate to the cost right and so if you're buying a lead that is 10 times the cost of just a name that you buy from a list that list of of those leads better convert at 10 times the rate of just buying the list and and marketing to them directly otherwise it's not a viable investment like I said on its surface and the the intent and the idea of direct admission I feel very strongly is a great one right I think it's a great idea to remove barriers help students identify institutions that they might not have heard of before and are a good fit for them I think the the swing and a miss right now is for many institutions it's it's again just treat like traditional lead gen versus taking advantage of that opportunity to really make an impact on that student and really treat them differently and nurture them differently throughout the process yeah there's another piece with that as well a few weeks ago I had Chris Gilmore from education Dynamics on the podcast and he said that the students that are applying primarily a graduate but also undergraduate as well they're far better prepared for what they want than previous level students and so the traditional admissions funnel you go through you get the application etc etc and then it goes to this board that says okay we're going to review all the applications and pick out what we think are the best ones the problem with that is for those students who are well prepared and know what they want what we're seeing right now now is the first college that accepts them they will frequently go to probably 80% and so that traditional pipeline of having your admissions board Etc isn't working yeah I think that I mean that's a great Point too about if we think about like the sales process quote unquote of going to college the old adage used to be first to mailbox right and so every institution you know when the PSAT score list was released you wanted to be the first one to get that list to your mail house because you wanted your search piece in the mail immediately because it'd be the first one in the mailbox and if you're the first one in the mailbox you feel like that's going to completely increase your chances of enrolling that student and sure do you get a flood of inquiry cards earlier probably but again those I feel like the the use of direct mail is is its own separate podcast again we can have a conversation about but it's thinking about how do we what being there when the student is ready right is is I think the most most important element of this and being where the students are when they're ready and I I feel like there is a certain level of Stress and Anxiety for many students when they are going through the the traditional college application process as an undergrad it's gut-wrenching in many respects to them because they're for many of these students they're not used to being rejected they're not used to being told they're not good enough and so they're being asked to put their life and effort out there to these institutions that they may or may not actually have researched deeply they just are applying to a list of schools based on who their parents know who their guidance counselor recommends and in many respects they might be undermatching based on that who that who they think they can't get into because they're afraid of being denied or weight listed and so I I think there are different ways that we can adapt the model here to better support students and get them a better experience through that college application process so when we spoke earlier in the week we talked about a quote new funnel and solving many of the problems that we've already talked about what does that new funnel look like and how do you use technology to take advantage of it I think again when we talk about the funnel a a funnel is a really good visual to drive home the point of you know the population shrink throughout the process and it's it's good to use because it's linear in many respects however we also need to couch that with students come and go throughout the process and and it's more of a of a stream or more of an engagement process than a true traditional funnel it's a sales process for higher ed exactly it's a sales process for higher ed but I think there's a certain level of understanding that the students can bypass a phase very easily a great example is I was presenting at a conference a number of years ago and my co-presenter told me about his niece had gone through the college search process and he said that she did not request information or inquire at any schools she was looking at she followed all those schools on Instagram and made her decision to apply based off of their Instagram content and how good of you know their student takeovers were and the the beauty of the campus and how it looked and how it felt now obviously that's a sample size of one but the reality is that you're going to have students who apply that never go through that traditional funnel but when I think about the new funnel I I think about a way for again automation to help with a lot of this if if there are thousands upon thousands of students who are researching institutions across the web they're on scholarship search sites they're on College help sites they're on College Prep sites these are students who are in a colleg goinging mindset where an institution traditionally would is buy that list of prospects from one of those sources and start to Market to them based off of some standard data but now they're just in that same old process right and so there's an opportunity particularly with AI to use this Tech technology to help to vet these students a little bit better and so think about it as kind of like Zip recruiter of the college search experience every morning when I drop my daughter off at school it's around 7:30 in the morning and I hear the ad for zip recruiter because they're advertising for people who are probably on their way to an office I work from home but you know people are on their way to an office they're hiring and their whole model is you post a job and then they go out to all the job sites across the web and find you the best applicants so imagine a scenario where it's that exact kind of a model where you create a list for students who specifically meet your institution's needs specific Majors that they're interested in values interests and then based on those lists the bot is now trained to identify and engage with students who meet that criteria or who could meet that criteria and as it interacts with these students on you know a single platform or multiple platforms it's collecting more and it's learning more and it's going to be be able to identify students better and better and now once a student meets a certain level of Engagement with your content and is identified as a solid prospect that student can be delivered to your admission staff as an applicant ready Prospect it it could be used for direct admission if we wanted to think about that path like we were just talking about as an access type of an opportunity but I feel like there's confusion around that and there's still some iteration that needs to happen with that model whereas directly connecting with a prospect in a meaningful way and getting that student to apply is a meaningful path and a meaningful process and so I I feel like there is definitely some ways to best use that type of technology to better support student outcomes by eliminating some of the Stress and Anxiety by making your team available for students more when the in-person interactions matter most which from a cost perspective helps to deploy resources more effectively as well and I can also see the possibilities of using AI platforms when you've got the application when you've got the essays in to say yes this person clearly meets the criteria that we've set up they're borderline or no they aren't and it could potentially eliminate weeks of the committee looking at all the applications I mean an AI platform can do a full application I would assume in less than 5 minutes yeah and that's where we need to decide what level of automation we want at what phase of the process I think the human element of reviewing the application is important but with that said and this is where the concept of direct admission has legs is if a student is clearly admittal based on their profile and based off of their information do we need a human element connecting there no that the human doesn't need to read the application that human needs to focus on reaching out to that student and making sure that they're interested in the school and making sure they know about why the school is so so it it's Recruitment and I think when we have institutions receiving so many inquiries because it's just so easy to click a button to say they're interested or they're receiving so many applications you you see the reports every year the press releases record-breaking number of applications record-breaking number of applications well here's the deal we're going to start to see that demographic Cliff hit so if everybody's receiving record-breaking applications but a smaller base of students are applying to more schools all that's doing is adding overhead to your to your institution and so if you can take those resources and redeploy them to the bottom of the funnel by allowing the technology to identify and engage with those students at the top now as you said those Fringe students that need that human eye get the human eye but the students who are clearly admittal uh I know many state schools have are doing this already with direct admission processes it just based on your high school GPS in your transcript it you you say which schools you're interested in and boom you you get automatic admission that's not the problem right the problem is that in addition to all of that the counselors are are still deployed at the top trying to get more when they need to be at the bottom getting that engagement and conversion to convert and then you've got the whole deal with census is you can accept but are they actually going to come and that's where I think I hear you talking about that's the most important place to deploy your people to help close the deal so to speak yeah absolutely and I think if we apply the sales analogy again to higher end good sales organization is going to have their sales people unlocked from all distractions and Laser focused on the most important activities to drive Revenue it's hard to swallow sometimes in higher ed that your admission staff is your sales team but that's the reality the difference is that your sales team is hyperm Mission focused student Centric and wants to do the job of engaging with students directly I I was on a webinar a couple weeks ago with enroll ml te matile has a really great research study on the time that admissions counselors spend not recruiting students and it's eye openening how much time is spent on data entry how much time is spent on number crunching and looking at spreadsheets and unfortunately you hired a bunch of people to be data jockeys and that's what's driving great resignation and staff shortages right all of these things are linked and I think it's going it take some effort to really understand if we focus on efficiency at the top of the funnel that solves a lot of challenges for admission staffs with staff retention and conversion of students throughout the process it's just we have to get out of this mindset of oh automation is going to take their jobs it's not going to take their jobs it's going to make their jobs more effective and efficient because they're able to focus on the higher value value interactions there's another piece we've been talking about the traditional students coming directly out of high school but there's other pieces that we can use this AI technology and I think David Decker at Franklin University their degree completion they have multiple avenues for folks coming out of community college or transfer students to be accepted what blew me away about what they're doing is they've got over 12 1200 articulation agreements with community colleges across the country to where if a student submits their transcripts they'll know within five minutes of all the credits that will be accepted and if they can be accepted or not I mean that's the kind of use of technology that to me makes so much sense you're not wasting people's time doing data crunching or having to send transcripts to faculty saying this is from XYZ University or Community College do we accept these credits it's like no if you're in the database we accept the credits period yeah I think the transfer and continuing studies type things are are interesting to me because there's so much opportunity there for supporting students to finish what they started get that credential so that they can now have that higher earning potential and and job placement and all of the benefits that come along with it and I think one of the things that is interesting from a transfer student perspective specifically is that it should be extremely easy for a student to know if I take this course and I get this grade is it acceptable for transfer credit at this institution transfer equivalency is something that is is still to this day a little too complicated obviously if you're part of a state system and you graduate from a community college and you're going to a school within the system system that stuff seems to have become more seamless at many places but it's still not did research study on this back when I was at cheg on on transfers specifically half of transfer students do not engage or reach out with an institution directly until they're actually ready to apply and that is why yield on transfer students is so much higher than a traditional first-time undergraduate because you have these large lists that you're marketing to and they're soft applicants and you do all these sorts of things whereas a transfer student all they want is how many credits am I going to get transferred and how much is it going to cost and how long is it going to take to to finish my degree if you can answer those three questions you've got a really good chance of enrolling that student and that's where your first to mailbox First Response thing really comes in if you're first to respond with an offer that they like you've got a great opportunity and I feel like to your point using technology we should be able to have an equivalency table that is just here's our equivalency table for every school in the country that this is what we'll transfer in and this is what you'll have yeah and that right there with however many people are transferring in plus you've got 40 million students who have dropped out and potentially could come back this is a way to solve the enrollment crisis yep I wouldn't say very easily but it's a way to solve it yeah I think I mean it what do they always say it's it's cheaper to keep a customer than to go out and get a new one and I think that there's this huge pocket of students that as the traditional population declines if we can backfill that with stopouts and get them to return to the institution and continue their degree it sounds like a Band-Aid but it's at least a Band-Aid for a few years we're then able to one provide the value to those students that they invested in to begin with and so from a student focused perspective these students should have the opportunity to complete their degree and they need that process to be easier right and so we're falling short in the degree completion department for sure like you said you already know who those students are the students who have not completed their degree with you you can do some work with student Clearing House data to see where they went and if we put the effort in there again if we deploy technology at the top of our traditional recruitment funnel that opens up a staff member to work on that project right and to do better there and I think it's a priorities thing for many institutions we get so caught up in the US News ranking and the press release about the number of applications we received or most selective class that we forget about all of these different opportunity and you I'm using a broad brusher there are institutions that are looking at this and focusing in that way and they're the ones who are going to win in all of this you mentioned it at the top the value of Education gets questioned as the number of students continues to decline not just because of birth rates but also because of Interest or value of the investment we've got to think differently about how we reach and engage students and it's the traditional funnel but it's also transfer it's also degree completion you name it there's multiple paths well the Lumina Foundation just came out with a study not too long ago talked about the 40 million dropouts they have but also too about all of these kind of things we need to be looking at better ways to reduce the cost of higher education we need to find better on-ramp for students and Technology can solve a lot of these issues yeah I think it does and I think there's again Pine a sky thing if we spend less money on recruitment maybe we charge less intuition I know that's not all how it works but I think that there's that mindset of if we are able to be more efficient with our efforts that's a a huge opportunity for us to best support students and then I think you know when we think about things like our financial aid strategy there's lots of places who are are doing a lot of work and I think one of the challenges we've run into and you mentioned the FAA conundrum at the at the beginning of the conversation the issue for many institutions is they needed that data to maximize net tuition Revenue per student right and so it's a business driving element that impacts students in that process but as we've gone through we use traditional models that are you know fiveyear regression analysis that's based off of you know I I I did an interview on my podcast a couple weeks ago with Carlos Cano and he mentioned that every every year there's something and so our model is only as good as being able to evaluate off of normal situations we don't have a normal cycle over the past five years to to be able to reliably use these big box store type of approaches so I I recommend to a lot of Institutions to really think about is that something they could actually do in house or do they work with a a smaller more Nimble firm to to be able to really be better about that because I think part of it is how deying up money and how we're making resources available the other is and I I've had conversations about this a lot recently is is just things like Merit Aid Merit Aid is just a discount on tuition it's not real money it's play money right and you can't just say oh I got a $12,000 scholarship I'm going to use that to buy books no that's $122,000 discount off of your tuition and so tuition resets obviously being a strategy but the reality that I think many of us all understand is that the reason why Merit Aid is is important or effective to some extent or to the main extent is that when you get to the water cooler Talk of the application process you know Mommy and dad are at soccer games with their junior or their senior it feels better to say that Johnny got a scholarship to soand so school not Johnny is going to a cheap school right and so I think that's another driving factor in higher ed that that creates Equity issues because students and families don't understand this and they just look at the price tag and so again they undermatch because they're not applying to a school because oh that school is going to be too expensive and again the challenge with me is I I think about I've been talking about this stuff and been a part of this since my first job as an admissions counselor and what was my answer to students who would say oh that school is too expensive I'm not going to apply as admissions counselor say well you don't know that until you apply because once you apply we can consider you for scholarships and you file the FAFSA and then you get your true cost of attendance so don't rule out any school based off of the price tag you should apply based on where you feel you fit and then you get that later right why is that the still the same answer today you know I think there's a certain element of we need some change in that process and making the FAFSA easier to complete is a step in the right direction obviously this cycle is another year of an outlier right but I think because of the launch issues but ideally that's next year it's a get making it easy to file the FAFSA just like direct admission Is Not a Bad Thing Direct Al but it's not the only thing and I think that we need to have a broader conversation Around The Narrative of cost and why we publish these grandiose price tags and then have a 60% discount rate exactly so Gil this has been a fascinating conversation for me you've raised more questions I think than we've gotten answers which to me is the way a good podcast should be is like it makes people stop and think so breaking it down three takeaways for University presidents and Boards what do they really need to be talking to their enrollment folks about yeah so I think the first thing that presidents and board should be asking is what is our plan for the use of AI right that's going to be one and and if there is no plan or if the plan is basically well we got a chatbot for our website there's more that we can do there right and I think that's something to to think about not to say that a chap out on the website's a bad thing you should probably think about that but there's more to it there's going to be different AI for different use cases right they're going to be trained to specialize in different things so I guess the deeper question is what is the strategy for use of AI at the top of the funnel I think is the first question that should ask I think the second question that a president or boards should be asking the VP of enrollment is how are we using our most expensive assets which are our people our people are being worked really hard and they're dedicating a lot of time and a lot of hours and again I'll say that admissions staffs and just like student affairs and just like financial aid offices are filled with amazing people who are trying to do the right thing and they're trying to support students because they care and we need to leverage that and support them by identifying ways that we can make their jobs more efficient and so it's the cliche of well this is the way it's always been done right and and we need to avoid that cliche and identify ways that we can best support them and then I think the last is the afford the affordability point is and this is more for probably you know VP of enrollment or head head of financial aid and obviously your Chief business officer and registar and burar they need to be part of these conversations is what is our financial aid strategy to ensure that we are going to weather this enrollment cliff and it could be incentives we have for students to return do we wave their current debt if they are able to put down a deposit for a future program right what are things that we can do because you know at the end of the day that's your discount rate is foregoing the the sunk cost of what they might owe on a prior Bill if they're going to finish their degree and so I think that there's certain things around what can we do financially to grow enrollment by bringing students back who have departed and and attracting more transfer students unfortunately broadly it's a zero sum game right the institutions that execute and do it well are going to be the ones that are sustained and Survive and Thrive and the ones that don't are going to find themselves in a tough situation yeah and we're seeing a lot of that tough situation right now I read something today that one college a week is closing that means this year we'll have over 50 colleges closing which is not a good stat yeah Gil what's next for you well let's see aside from spending the summer in the pool with my kids because that is what we need to do up in here we we have a very narrow window in Maine for when it's sunny and nice out so we'll be taking care of that but i' continue weekly to publish my podcast is FYI for your institution it's presented by Mongoose uh we have conversations with a wide variety of folks related to enrollment fundraising advancement student retention so find that on your favorite podcasting app and when you're done listening to this podcast you can go listen to that one that's my fun project that I get to work on with them and as a fractional CMO I continue my work with my clients to help with the outcomes that they're looking for what's great is all of the companies that I work with are all doing really cool things to support better student outcomes that's one of my benchmarks for wanting to work with a company is really seeing what they're doing and the impact that they're making on Student Success so that's what I'll be doing hopefully for years to come well it's been a pleasure having you on on the show I look forward to the next time we have a chance to chat I know we'll never run out of great topics so thank you awesome appreciate it thanks for listening and a special thank you to Our Guest Gil Rogers founder and CEO of gr7 marketing and for his sharing his thoughts on how highered institutions can improve their marketing funnels tune in next week when we welcome back meline pumariega back to the show as you know meline is the president of Miami Dade College and one of their key initiatives is creating programs that focus on educating students on AI we can't as an industry run away from Ai and meline will show us how MDC has embraced it and the benefits that it has had to the college and its students who are now learning how to use AI ethically thanks for listening see you next week changing higher ed is a production of the change leader a consultant committed to transforming highered institutions find more information about this topic along with show notes on this episode at changing higher ed.com if you've enjoyed this podcast please subscribe to the show and we would also value your honest rating and review email any questions comments or recommendations for topics or guests to podcast at changing higher ed.com changing higher ed is produced and hosted by Dr Drum mcon post-production by David L White