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but yeah you know what i've there's to me there's a big psychology to understanding legion and the people on the other side um and and so i wanted to just kind of offer a couple of things that helped me and then you can you know use this if it's great if it's not i understand but to me originating a mortgage is a miracle and it is five thousand dollars and i don't know what you make in your average deal but let's just use 5000 out of thin air is is pretty dang cool that's a lot of money um and so when we do that it's a thought process and it's it's a mindset and in the mindset we've got to have is the client we're talking to the potential borrower is sitting there thinking all about themselves it's w-i-i-f-m and when i first heard about this it was a radio station call sign i don't even know if people listen to radio anymore but what's in it for me is absolutely what runs on a loop inside these people who respond it's what runs in a loop in your head you know what's in it for me why am i going to sit and listen to this guy talk and so you got to recognize that that's the filter and so we've got to prove we've got to serve that uh that look that's constantly running so why should they respond to you um and make it easy for them and and it has to be what how can it improve their situation and if we think about it what is the problem that's keeping them up at night and i think about the leads that will engage with me versus the ones that will never respond and it's generally someone who can tip the scales on telling me what their thing is you know maybe it is that they've got all these teenagers and there's not a place to park because they're trying to live in this townhouse and they don't know what to do so their driver is more parking some people have got to get their fighting kids out of the same bedroom they just kind of got to go from a 4-2 to a 5-2 you know and and sometimes they're just tired of the crime in the neighborhood they got to get away from that neighbor there's there's drivers absolutely so just try to remember what is in it for them and what are they worried about what is the driver and we gotta somehow find a way to chisel that out of them find out you know solve that bathroom log jam in the morning and so um so that's well that's like we've got that screen twice uh must be must be really important that's how important it is it is important so that's the thing so find a way to get that out of them maybe on the first touch i found that usually if i can get them maybe on a text how many bedrooms do they need is a big deal and then maybe how many bathrooms bedroom is usually the bigger driver than the bathroom but what part of town that they need to be in you guys they absolutely don't want a mortgage you know this they don't want a mortgage they need a new house and and what you're bringing them is the opportunity to have that new house you are you are the means to that end and so again no one wants the mortgage you don't want to talk about mortgages backwards you know they need to know what they can qualify for before they go shop but it's not the driver so so we got to use these things how soon do they need a change uh you know pick up their urgency and we'll talk about this in a minute but usually someone on facebook is early early early in the process and so we have to understand that if they're not responding to us right away we got to understand that this is just an idea that's beginning to germinate if the if we're finding them in facebook now also recognize this they are seeing other people they are dating other originators and so what that means for us is we have to have a better emotional connection with them okay there's a few of them that are all about the dollars and the in the rate number and the closing cost but quite honestly you've got to have a connection you've got to find what their driver is and then they'll be with you instead of someone else but recognize that we need to offer them something superior and their timing is not your timing um that's why it's so important and again we'll talk about this in a second but early in the process they're not ready to go out looking for houses they're certainly not ready to determine what their payment is and they're certainly not ready to get qualified for their number right now based on where we're finding them in the process we'll talk about this but we have to become the obvious choice to them relevance is um is a process and first you you become known and the great thing is we're finding them early and have a graphic in just maybe two slides that'll we'll talk more about this but first you have to become known and then you have to become liked then after you're known and like you have a chance to become their trusted provider but it is a process and it takes a number of touches and experiences to become that average choice or that obvious choice and so so the experts tell us that the consumer needs 8 to 14 touches to get here and it may be even more you know the marketers might say it's more than that but what we're honestly doing is we're taking little baby seeds and we've got to grow them into a harvest and we can't force the seed to germinate any faster than it's gonna so what we have to do is be there when it actually strikes when it takes and so what i was trying to say is every human being whenever you buy something you go through a process and if it's on a letter line from a to z uh a is when you first have the thought i'm gonna go buy a car or oh man i am so tired of these kids fighting over the bathroom in the morning when they're getting just getting ready for school we may need to get a bigger house and that's the first thought they have and then they move through b c d e f all the way out to z when they're signing closing papers with the title folks and so so what we've got to do is try to find them in this process now in b they start to consider other solutions and gathered information around about d and then you know f and g and h they start asking their friends man what do you think should i buy right now is the market overheated if our price is too high maybe i should just rent and they start to narrow solutions down about lm and n and then on q they're starting to pick kind of a favorite provider maybe they're looking at houses maybe their agent is trying to tell them to use their favorite loan officer and about t they actually make the decision that they're going to buy now most marketing in our world is focused on people between t and z and brandon i'll ask you because you've got an open mic are there more human beings between t and z or are there more human beings between a and t way more in the a and t category for sure way more so here's the cool thing about brandon system is if we're grabbing people in facebook you guys these are people at a b and c because we're probably interrupting them they're not they're not looking for a house when we find them they don't go to facebook to look for a house they don't grab a cup of coffee and sit down and go i'm going to search for my houses no man they're on facebook looking to see what their friends are doing if their kids were in their soccer game or whatever and we interrupt them and say hey what about this and so so we are getting them early in the process now the great thing about it is there's way more people on that end yeah the downside about it is it takes time for them to wander from a to t but the cool thing about it is this gives us a chance to be in their mind when they actually arrive at t yeah yep and so we got to be there with them when they arrive at t and hopefully we can also be going through this relevance process of being known liked and then finally trusted when that time comes and and you grow you grow cold to warm from different touches right and so so as we go growing knowing the liking to trusting and then we're going to be there so if we could ideally superimpose it over the the number line and the letter line you know hopefully we are 13 touches we're we're becoming the liked to trusted person when they're looking for vendors when they're shopping rates or they're trying to pick their loan officer and so so the cool thing about brandon's process is it helps you do that and so again you go so what i'm trying the reason i went through this whole rigmarole is to understand that the seeds are going to germinate at their speed but you just got to do your job to be there when it germinates does that make sense brandon what i'm saying i i you're you're saying the same thing i say but a totally better way this is why i brought you on here there we go so be there when they decide and again i already said this twice usually facebook inquiries early in that process and again this is interruption marketing not intent based marketing it's something they saw and was curious versus they sat down with coffee to search and so so you got to be there when they decide and and and don't feel bad about leaving the same voicemail over and over again or don't be like hey this is gary again united first mortgage i called you last wednesday and i didn't hear from you don't do that just just pretend like they never heard the first one pretend like this is your first touch with them you got to be excited and you want to deliver something that will make them respond um they didn't read that last text you sent and it's act like this is the first time you're meeting and conversion sell demands happens on that first exposure unless you happen to find them at t and they are dead desperate to find a solution and that is one in a million yep so once in a while but not very often once in a while so assume they're really busy assuming they didn't hear that voicemail maybe they read the transcription maybe they didn't read the last text you sent probably act like this is the first one that's where we've already talked about that but you got to be there when it's their time so hopefully you have an email in their box when it becomes time when when the husband says you know what i'm sick and tired of them fighting in the morning or the bathroom let's do something about it you want to be in their mailbox that day you want to call them that day you want to send that text again on that day and you guys 1 in 50 would be amazing because you just pulled 5 000 out of thin air out of 50 leads if you pulled one i think of this like if i put five thousand dollars in a briefcase and i hit it somewhere in one room in a hundred room hotel would you stop after the first door no no it's bad odds would you stop after the 10th door no would you what about the 14th door what about the 99th door what if you didn't find it till the last room what if it took you eight hours would you do it i would it's five thousand dollars you guys would do this every day and then the next day i put it in a different room and said you to go that's what we're doing we're opening doors we're trying to open doors with as many of these people these people have some some level of interest it's just somewhere between a and t on that little letter line and it's early and so we've got to keep touching them while they go hopefully we're giving them value hopefully we're connecting with them emotionally as we go so we can become liked we can become trusted and then we're relevant and hopefully we're landing there at the time when they need us and we'll do it but to me i just try to remember man i'm opening hotel doors i'm trying to find the 5 000 briefcase and am i willing to open 99 doors to get it and in luckily in lending we've got the opportunity to do that and we're so lucky that we've got brandon that's that's going and setting a five thousand dollar briefcase somewhere in the hotel for us every single day so go find your money that's all i got i love it hey that's that's great mindset stuff here and totally you like it like like i said when i asked you to jump on the call here is uh i knew you would say it differently than me and you did and it's super good and i really appreciate it do you i was curious real quick do you have any um common objections any objection busters or anything that you you frequently you feel like you've encountered or it's cool if not but if there's any that are coming up not really i mean it's it's just a matter of oh it's if there is one you know maybe they've already got a you know connection with a realtor or through a realtor you know to the lender on the other side and to me it's like hey are you open to saving money would you let me do a you know a a competitive bid and then maybe if you need to cut comp to get it maybe it's worth it to go get it you know maybe you could borrow paid and i'm a broker so i'm talking maybe some strange language yeah but maybe you've got the ability to just go and and cut and do the deal but but to me when i'm looking at a lead i've got a realtor that will give me three two back for every deal i hand him and so to me a purchase lead isn't worth just five grand it's worth 15 grand yep because i'm gonna turn that into three total deals and so to me fifteen thousand dollars what's more valuable a use of my time today than trying to turn one of those leads over it's certainly not worth for me to sit and look at facebook it's certainly not worth it for me to go try and process a mortgage loan yep there's no better use of my time than trying to turn the trying to convert a lead and i love that brandon provides those so we can yeah and again i'm not answering your question i don't think no it's okay but yeah that's i mean i i also agree is that like uh one deal is not just one deal and i think that's important too because a lot of people forget that they don't look beyond that like you know you get you got an opportunity to turn this into referral and then obviously what a lot of people do too is you know they get a referral from that person that the the client yeah and maybe they refi them in two years or maybe they move up in three or four years yeah yeah i've got a realtor i gotta go to give me refund leads yeah um you know and and again just because if you're the if you're the mortgage guy and i'm sure you've already made this clear but if you're the mortgage guy that actually hands them back a deal you're one you're one in 20 you're one in 50. yep you know you're valuable you know that you guys don't know that it's a lot better than a coffee date [Laughter] do we buy a five dollar cup of coffee or give you a deal well and again you don't have to bag you have to go yeah i'll take you to sushi why do they always want to why do they want to go to the most expensive restaurant they don't want to use you dude they just want your money they just want your sushi yeah but if you've got that you don't have to worry if you've got legion yeah you have to worry because you're in charge i love it well cool let me see uh since ray's only one on i just wanted to see if he had any questions or anything real quick any for for gary before i let him go go back to normal life here ray can you hear me yeah i can hear you can hear me yeah awesome did you have any questions today maybe anything that that gary could provide that i can't no it's just a numbers game it's just you know constant pecking at them checking out yep yep that's all it is uh you know gary are you working anything as far as refi leads with the system right now no yeah i probably should yeah i think he's on a hiatus at the moment like i just i do refi absolutely but if i'm going to spend resources i want to spend on purchases just because the people that live in the purchase world stay in the business and the people that get veered off on a purchase tangent a lot of times fall out of the business when rates change oh you mean refi change it but yeah yeah yeah yeah well we're starting to see that now with the with the rates jumping a little bit yeah so so if i had to choose i would just choose purchase