Enhance your lead to opportunity ratio for quality assurance

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anna andres she is in a quality assurance field for she was 20 years and she currently is the owner of quest strategy llc anna please we want to know like your story how did you become a qa manager uh how did you get into a cure management can you tell this yeah okay so there's 20 years of history so you know hold on it's going to take me a minute uh i originally started out uh working for an insurance company customer service and so i guess my managers saw that i had some critical thinking skills some attention to details so they had this ledger that they wanted um to be cleared every month uh and so when i got it it was like three pages long and i you know went ahead made all the phone calls figured out where the money was supposed to go cleared all the client policies and really proved that i could you know use my critical thinking skills my attention to detail and actually complete what they were asking me to do which you know was really great they had an i.t department in their company and the vp asked me to apply so i did i went for the interview and i had no idea what i was applying for it was a qa quality assurance analyst position and i had no idea what i was walking into but they liked me and they gave me a chance okay about this transition because quality qa analyst it's a little bit more technical right how did you get this uh how how do you fill this gap or like did you have this gap in technical skills like can you tell this one oh yes i had a gap there was a gap because i quickly found out that i didn't know anything about technology and i didn't understand how we were building things and how all of the pieces work together when they would give me a you know bug fix or a new feature or some new piece of functionality i didn't know how to test it what all of the you know what did integration mean what did system testing mean you know we were putting it on staging and then we were going to production i didn't understand any of that and really there's no school for that right there's no quality assurance school for that so what i did was i went to uh back to school i went to strayer university um for programming because you know what i'm just going to jump right over uh testing and i'm gonna go right for the programming but there was nothing else and so i went through these classes learning about how to program i learned about you know object oriented testing i'm gonna date myself you know visual visual basics but i loved it it was really great because you know i i was learning as i was going in the classes and then i was able to take those skills and use them for my testing use them in quality assurance and then i just built on it and then when i graduated a lot of people asked me are you going to be a programmer because i was doing really well and really understanding what uh what i was learning and how the programming worked but i said no i didn't want that i wanted to stay in quality assurance and i was that was early in my career but i really felt like i could take the skills that i was you that i had learned and really use them and apply them to quality assurance so there was a gap and there was a few years of um learning by the school of hard knocks i had to ask a lot of questions i was very grateful that uh that job i had there and then i had left there and gone to thompson financial and there the developers that i worked with they were so kind and they really wanted me to succeed and they really wanted to help me and because my questions to them were not you know surfacy questions they were more in-depth questions uh of how the functionality was working of you know even with thomson financial i learned a lot about database testing well and then even after thomson financial i went to autoscribe which was a small local company and there we had no tools to help us troubleshoot any client complaints that came in we had to be able to run queries through sql to troubleshoot and so at thompson financial i had learned the database and that whole structure and how that all works then in autoscribe i was able to take that and now i was running complex queries to do my testing because i had learned it from using it with the customer complaints you know that it was it was learning the hard way but it's working um it's worth it it was so such great times it really was awesome so you went from a qa analyst to test engineer during this uh time frame uh when you were studying in school right i guess yes yeah and then when i graduated and then i had learned the database and the sequel and then i started uh with api testing i think i was at thompson reuters i think i was they made me the lead of a project so i had my teammates who i was tasking them with different pieces of functionality within the product but and then i was so i was leading the project or qa lead i still had hands-on testing i was still utilizing all my skills i was still helping answering questions working with my teammates but um that was it for the qa lead lead portion yeah obviously like it's more uh responsibility in terms of like now you are leading the project or project right and besides you are hands on testing as well uh what was like the ratio between you were hands-on and also do leading stuff well with the qa lead um i kind of found it a little bit difficult because right so i'm leading the project i'm helping to lead people and giving them tasks and they do have deadlines because we have an overall deadline and we had a manager but where's the responsibility end uh for me right because i i know that that work needs to be done and i'm tasking them and we are all professionals and they're getting the work done but if it's not a the quality that i want or as fast as i want or completed like i wanted you know i would not really say anything that's the manager's job because they manage i would just try to lead and guide the people to get the tasks completed and actually this is my next question right how did you become a q a manager and what uh what changed in your responsibilities right when i went to qa manager i was working at the local company at autoscribe and uh i was working on quality assurance so what immediately changed was the fact that now all of the people that my teammates that now became my subordinates reported to me so i would have to you know um manage them in the sense of you know their annual reviews their um you know any pto sick leave um you know any of those types of of issues i would need to work on those while also being some hands-on uh and leading and directing so there was more responsibility now one thing that really worked out well when i became a manager after about a year we had some shifts in the company and our vp of technology uh needed someone to manage the client services department and so he asked me would i be able to handle that as well doing the quality assurance and the client services and i was ecstatic because here i am now getting to go back to client services where i felt that i had a passion for to manage and help that department to grow so i took that and then i had both departments and um you know as a manager you have to hire you know you have to have some disciplinary actions sometimes have some really difficult conversations so those were not fun but uh i did learn a lot how did you manage uh this situation when you are as you mentioned your peers became your subordinates like yeah that's always i guess it was kind of tough right it's always like not easy it's not that it's not it's hard or it's easy it's just different it's uh there's a time period where you have to allow some understanding and some growth to happen uh between yourself and the you know your these people that used to be your teammates uh and so i learned and i did it really from the beginning was really don't make any changes keep everything the same uh allow people to be vocal about what they liked what they didn't like what they want to see uh changed look for the low-hanging fruit things that you can quickly give them to show them that we are a team that i'm here for them i'm not now the manager look at me and you're my subordinates so you will do what i say that's not the type of environment that i ever wanted nor do i think i ever cultivated um so it's it's it's really important and then you know to be able to have that balance and have that ear to listen to people awesome awesome and uh let's go for the next step now you were a manager what how did you went to a director role my my the company before the company that i have now i was working for a custom software development company and i actually at that company i went from qa lead to qa manager even though i had been a manager i had to go back to lead and then i went to the director of quality assurance so when i made that change um they did not fill in the qa manager position so i was the director and really not a whole lot changed for me there in the sense of the qa team because they still needed to be tasked they still needed to work on projects but what i did was i i went i knew my team i knew who i was working with so i looked at their strengths and then i tried to pull from those strengths to fill in some of those qa manager roles that uh were not being completed that i knew i wasn't gonna have time to do to give them something to work towards and uh get the tasks accomplished which was great because people like to be challenged they like to to work towards something that's you know um can show advancement can show that they have initiative um but then as the director right then now i also have to work with other directors and with more of the leadership and the executive team within the company right i need to understand the bigger picture the company goals and how my team um you know is gonna work to meet the goals of the company more than just when i was the qa manager yeah interesting interesting it's a big task got it so i think it was a big task but i loved it and i didn't mean to cut you off but i loved it it was great it really did allow for me to step back and see the bigger picture of the company as a director i was able to understand at a higher level you know what was happening in the dev team what was happening for the business analysts and the product managers and what were their pain points and you know as i learned their pain points i was like well you know wow we're doing this over here in qa i know if we tweaked it a little bit that could help you right so it really gave me a bigger picture to the whole company and what what was going what was happening got it so in other words in director role you were more involved like uh an overall bigger strategy and picture um involving communication probably more cl clear communication between departments uh and the product and when you were a manager it was more towards to quality of the product to the strategy of the product am i right yes got it awesome and uh but i guess from managerial when you became a manager then you actually have the power of a hiring and firing oh right yes yeah and uh those can be uh big and heavy tasks let's talk about it a little bit um about hiring and firing uh let's start with the firing dude did you okay did you ever faced when you had two people let go yes yes yes and what was the uh what the major the majority reason like when you need two people let go you know we had we had an individual who was working there for a long time um he just or the person couldn't uh you know sql skills was a big something that you really needed to be able to complete your job and he this person just was not willing to learn it sufficiently for their job and so there was another um team member of a higher um rank who was helping the person but really not helping them really was actually doing the work giving them the information and then that person would send out the emails um and get the credit for having completed it but i needed the higher ranking uh team member to do other work but they were saying they were too busy they didn't have time well so okay what are you working on tell me let me hear what you're saying what you're working on you know i'm not trying to micromanage but i need to know and then i've come to find out they were helping the other person so then i went to the other person and said okay we're going to need to ramp up your skills you know because i need you to be responsible for this area and not this other person uh and we gave him ample time to get up to speed with his um abilities how long it was uh oh it was six months wow yeah definitely it was more than enough six months it was more than enough time and it wasn't only just here's the time get it done it's every month uh you know let's look at what you've been doing all right how's it going do you need any more help from us is there anything else we can do for you uh you know i mean we were even willing to you know if you didn't have time to study these things at night we'll give you an hour two hours every day just for that right and there was no drive the person didn't want to learn it they didn't want to be responsible for that because it was it was it was difficult it is a big big difference between when person wants to do this or he just you know he should be probably glad to you that it's it's just time for switching company or job or maybe direction maybe he wasn't passionate about it anymore and you know yeah why i mean it's it's a really good example like as i said ideally it's i mean especially in the technology it's a good to change to switch companies or switch projects every like two three years at least like but not not longer than that if you got really get used to to one project to one specific task well you're not developing your skills anymore you're not developing i mean it won't help it will hurt your career right oh absolutely if you become complacent it shows after a while it shows and um you know i want to say like in this day and age but it really doesn't matter 20 years ago the same thing if you became complacent having that mindset of uh they're not going to get rid of me i've been here forever it's not gonna it's not gonna happen you know but one thing is i truly do believe that i have always tried to give ample opportunity and be available and to give resources time if you need time you know whatever whatever is needed for you to learn it because i know with myself right i went to school and i had people in my jobs that helped me and wanted to see me succeed it's so it's the same thing but if you don't want to help yourself then then we have nothing to talk about certainly nobody can help you if you want if you don't want to be helped that's it awesome great anna thank you what about hiring like what you were looking into person skills uh his uh his soft hard skills like when you were hiring what was the most important yeah so i want to say that you know hiring is the fun part but you know what it's also quite difficult because oh you put out a job description and you were inundated with resumes and you really as a manager as a director or manager i really always wanted to look at all of the resumes you know but that's not always uh the best use of your time so you might have somebody else that will vet the resumes for you you tell them what you're looking for maybe it's hr maybe it's your qa lead or your qa manager if you're a director but um you know and then get the ones that are the best and then reach out to the people so the types of things that i was looking for in a resume or from a candidate when i was interviewing is um you know really you know because quality assurance does not have a college degree it does not have a even a certificate program but you do have certifications so if you have those certifications that's number one not that i think you need to have them in order to get a job in quality shirts or to stay in quality assurance but it kind of shows that you do have the knowledge so you might stand out over somebody else but really if you have worked in quality assurance if you have um uh what i the skills i look for is critical thinking problem solving um attention to detail uh you know have you worked with uh apis um you know what types of industries have you worked in because that does matter and um so those are the the skills that i look for and then when i interview with people and i get them talking you know i like to know what um what are some of the pain points that you've had as a quality assurance engineer to to get them to to talk about how did you how did you work with business analysts did you ever have conflict with them how did you resolve it uh developers project or product managers um you know and then i i try to you know i i like to know if you have been uh with a product from maybe inception to all the way to production and then maybe some more iterations of that product you know that shows that you under you you possibly understand the whole life cycle of product development and then get you talking about um uh specifics within the software development life cycle you know what happens if the dates slip and you're giving them you know you know we are agile so you should be testing within the sprints so what are your sprints what is your testing what if the testing doesn't happen you know uh tell me about about how you know what you know um especially about the other departments you know it's it knowing about quality assurance knowing about testing is one thing and it is needed but what do you know about business analysts what should they be doing what should they be providing for you what questions can you ask them should you ask them and what type of a relationship should you have with them uh because those are all important things too got it yeah definitely and would you be able able uh to draw the ideal the portrait of ideal candidate like uh for for example for qa engineering position or a test engineer the ideal candidate would have already some quality assurance experience hopefully worked in the industry that you're applying for have some automation skills everybody wants automation these days right we still need the manual testing which happens should happen very quickly but once software is solid and repeatable and you're going to keep it then you need to automate it right that could be all of the same person so that you know you want the automation to happen because you know the functionality and you've just tested it and it's working so you automate it so some automation skills are definitely highly recommended you know again the critical thinking the problem solving the attention to detail the ability to learn to be a team player those are are important are you looking into resume like for person and this is actually i i got asked like a lot of time um some managers are looking like if the person is switching jobs often or or not like did you pay attention on that or like you that never really bothered me if they were switching often or even if they have a gap in their resume i don't i i ask you know hey what's going on you know where are you you know why did you move around so much what was happening what was the gap about but no i i i've never let that that hinder me from hiring somebody what was the red flag for you then uh the red flag is definitely if they can't answer my questions and they don't have uh much much experience in um you know being able to work with other people and understand the software development life cycle now i get it people get nervous i get it that's you know that's why i try to do a first screening over the phone have some conversation um the way i like to do it is you know have the conversation talk on the phone just for a few minutes you know so that you hear my voice i hear your voice then i will email you because you know i will email you me or somebody else i'll have them email you um you know some questions tell you to look at our website to gather your questions to understand our domain and what what products we work with and then um you know come on in with the interview if you come in on the interview and i ask you so what did you like about our our company website and you don't have much to say even though that's not qa related uh but i i told you in the email to look look over our website and get your questions together and then i asked you what you thought and you don't have any um any information about it and and or and or you say i didn't even look at it well that's kind of a red flag because i gave you a task and you didn't do it and it was an easy one that is very helpful that is very helpful and uh yeah please guys you should uh take notes especially right now anna what about now like where are you at can you tell uh what are you doing at this moment yeah so back in july of 2021 i left my full-time position and i started my own company so i started qa strategy llc and primarily i started it to uh be a quality assurance consultant in the software development industry and i still am in that in that field and i still have i do have a client that's in that industry um you know i i can come in and consult and help with strategies uh for testing for qa hiring and anything that goes along with the manager type of a role i can also help build out qa departments because i've done that twice in my career where i've gone into a company where they had no quality assurance and i had to build it out from scratch so i can help companies with with that as well but then also there's areas where i don't have the expertise you might need someone to do web accessibility testing and i don't have that specialty but i i can get someone for you to fill in that gap and help get that testing completed so i am still in that field but one of the wonderful things that has opened up for me which i didn't never thought would happen but i had uh met with a client for what i thought was quality assurance uh in software because that's how the job description read but after talking to them for just a few minutes i realized it was not it was more quality improvement or compliance for mental health agency and so i immediately told them i really don't have that you know any expertise in mental health or you know maybe what you're looking for but you know we could talk a little bit longer and i had gone for a quali uh to step in as their quality assurance analyst and uh the after talking with them and them realizing my skill set they were like hey could you come in and be our coordinator for our projects um so i was like sure so basically i went in and then i got them all organized because it's not software projects but they are still projects and so i got them organized got their team set up and then within like i'm not kidding you within like three weeks they asked me to be the manager of the department so right now qa strategy llc is partnering with carf accredited mental health agencies to help keep them accredited awesome anna what made you to leave your full-time job to start your own company and you do consulting business well i had wanted to do it and i had actually um while i was working full-time i had kind of toyed with the idea and had um started thinking about it and looking into it and really that's the direction i wanted to go in and was fortunate that in july of 2021 the custom software development company that i was working for decided that they didn't need in-house quality assurance and so they eliminated my position which at first i was a little bit devastated but then quickly realized what a blessing it was not that i disliked where i was working not that i didn't want to be there but something was happening and i knew where i really wanted to be and so you know within a week or two i was able to just jump into my own company and really just put my whole heart into that to getting that up and running that's amazing that's amazing i i truly wish you good luck it's uh interesting very inspiring story uh how people can find out about you like uh how they can yeah really right now the best way to connect is through linkedin uh that would be the best way to to connect awesome guys we'll uh include anna's linkedin in our profile in our description and please connect to anna anna thank you for for your time for today's session is it was really inspiring and we'll definitely will keep in touch with you and thank you very much thank you