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[Music] foreign [Music] foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] thank you foreign [Music] thank you [Music] foreign [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] thank you [Music] hello everyone welcome to marketing for long sale Cycles if your company has a long sales cycle you're definitely in the right place today we're going to talk about some specific challenges that long sail Cycles can create in a business we're going to talk about how we should think about your marketing and attribution we're going to talk about what you should do different as a business if you have a long sales cycle and I'm super excited to have everyone with us live even if you're watching this later welcome to the stream we're super happy to have you with us today so while I let everyone get connected on LinkedIn we're streaming on YouTube and Facebook as well I'm going to ask you all a simple question how long is your sales cycle today if you're running a business let me know in the comments there should be a live chat just type it in how many months how many years hopefully not too many years how long is your sales cycle um and while I'm waiting for some comments to come in Miles how long would you say the sales cycle the average sales cycle would be for uh Sherpa McKim definitely varies quite a bit depending on the project uh size whether or not it's a much larger engagement like an agency of record um but I I would say that we've had had deals and uh clients clothes in as short a period as you know a few weeks maybe a month um and then it can range I know uh some of the senior sales sales team members have been walking leads along for well over a year before finally those companies become clients so I think it definitely is on a case-by-case basis and can range greatly totally Mike do we have anyone in the live chat popping in see not yet no depends we have uh Irene Irene Khan thanks for uh commenting depends on the tier our longest could be 1.5 to 2 years yeah that would definitely uh definitely qualify as a long sale cycle so we're here for you we're gonna help um give you some tips on how to handle that so thanks for joining us everyone um and let's get started let's Jump Right In so one of the problems the biggest problem at a macro level is this is how I look at it you have your you have your marketing there we go get the boxes going and like so think about marketing like this is your your um your ads um all your top funnel stuff your outbound social media your website and that is driving ultimately opportunities for your sales right and then if we think about this simply you either sell something or you don't sell something and when you're able to sell in this small picture it's pretty simple attribution simple like marketing feeds opportunities for sales sales closes the deal you can feed that data back into marketing to improve the campaign and validate your ad spend the problem is these aren't the only two options there's a third option and if you're here with us today you probably experienced this too and it's that you don't necessarily get that feedback right away um what happens is the prospect will not just say yes or no but you know as uh Irene pointed out like they can sit in a in a very long sales cycle for you know one and a half two years sometimes even more before you finally get that validation that that data back into your system at the end and if we think about what happens over that period of time this period of time in your sales cycle I don't think it's necessarily fair to attribute your marketing effort which drove the sale to that end data point there's a lot of factors that happen along the way as this person is is as time is progressing and this person is being exposed to your brand they're doing their own research and it's this part it's this kind of gray area in the middle and that where we lose attribution and we lose focus on what's Happening that we're going to talk about on the call today and uh yeah so what we're going to talk about is how you can design a marketing system that's built around creating and converting intent over long periods of time and how you can properly measure it and I'm super excited today because I'm here with the three of you um so let's do some quick intros I'm your host today Michael McCaffrey digital marketer funnel hacker and the outdoor Earthling um Nat thanks Michael hello everyone I'm Natalia Ferrari I'm a better married specialist and professor I've been in paid marketing for over 10 years now so I'm really looking forward to sharing my learnings about paid marketing for companies with long-safe Cycles today amazing and Mike thanks Michael uh senior so Mike Brown senior digital marketer a kind of a jack of all trades lately gravitating towards content and digital ad strategy specifically for B2B companies amazing happy to have you with us here we can't wait to hear what you have to say and uh miles final guest here yeah I'm miles R I'm the director of digital marketing at McKim Sherpa so really excited to be uh on the live stream today and discuss further and without further Ado let's let's get into things so we'd like to set the stage for today's conversation by discussing buying Journeys at a high level and how marketers can really respond to large-scale buying Behavior changes that have taken place and one of the biggest B2B marketing shifts that's happened in say the past seven to ten years is that buyers can now educate themselves about a product or service for a much higher percentage of their purchase Journey prospective buyers now have a ton of information and resources at their fingertips on places like social platforms YouTube forums Reddit or even just company and Industry websites to kind of put into perspective how much the landscape has changed just in 2010 which doesn't feel too too long ago LinkedIn had only eight percent of its current user base so there's just been this massive growth in online activity and the result is a much different set of buying behaviors compared to 10 years ago where buyers had to depend far more on offline channels such as trade shows industry Publications or sales people if they were looking to educate themselves during a purchase process that's exactly right so so this shift in in value Behavior means that prospects are far more prepared as as they reach sales later in their buying journey I think it will be it would be super interesting if you could share some of your thoughts miles on on how marketing teams should respond to to this trend yeah so you're exactly right Natalia we've heard from many of our B2B clients sales teams that prospects are reaching them much later in the buying journey and by the time they actually reach the sales teams those buyers are far more knowledgeable and actually purchase ready at that point almost purchase ready so these prospects have narrowed the consideration set themselves due to all of the research they can now take on themselves and at that point they're essentially soliciting quotes from vendors to compare price and although this this may seem like kind of a worrying Trend because uh buyers are spending less time with sales we actually see this as a huge opportunity for marketers whether a prospect is actively looking for a solution or completely out of market for a product representative it's to learn and dealing with long skill Cycles a group that identified a purchase need becomes even more more important to focus on because in a long time before they're ready to convert and actually demonstrate intent and that's really what we've been focused on lately with our B2B clients so back to your question Natalia what do we do about this trend what's what's kind of marketing's response and the way that we generally split up our strategy for B2B clients is by dividing our approach into two components demand generation and demand capture so let's start with demand gen this to kind of this continuous providing um of valuable content to deal Target prospects and giving them helpful information in the channels that they frequent the goal here is is really to provide uh so much value for that long that long time that the buyer's next purchase Journey Begins your organization's already top of mind so demand gen is all value focused it's about providing that helpful information rather than making salesy asks and it's about kind of this understanding of a buyer's purchase process and then helping them along through it so that's the demand gen side of things and as I mentioned the the second component is demand capture so demand capture refers to meeting intent Rich moments and creating this frictionless experience for buyers who are actually willing to take the next step in their buying journey and this could involve many different things but um examples would be like scheduling a sales demo uh booking a call with a sales team mem uh sales team member or actually requesting a quote an in-demand capture approaches obviously activation ads are are of course important but it's also key to evaluate websites or landing pages and and really that full path to conversion to where it's a seamless straightforward to recap we've got demand entered around that deep understanding of the target audience and then developing educational and engaging content for that group and then demand capture which involves converting intent and making it easy for prospects to take that next step in their Journey with your brand when they choose to take it so Miles there's kind of a common thing we hear from a lot of prospects and clients is something along the lines of we need more leads and that's generally the focus of a lot of the engagements that hit our door so this would be typically thought of as activation marketing or demand capture how has that how is the demand generation and demand capture approach changed the way this type of Engagement has been approached for or with the B2B companies first important step is is to kind of realign on goals and figure out uh the true kind of purpose in improving some Metric like leads so so is the goal to increase the number of leads generated by marketing or is the goal really to increase metrics like qualified pipeline value and revenue because if it's the latter I think it's really important for marketing to use that as the North Star to guide strategies and tactics rather than a metric like marketing qualified leads and and the reason for that is because you could actually increase Pipeline and revenue even though the number of leads decreased as long as those leads are more qualified or if they convert faster represent bigger opportunities things like that um however I would say this isn't the case when we speak with many prospects that have longer sales cycles and we frequently see uh I would enter an over investment in shorter term conversion focused marketing that has the goal of driving leads whether qualified and this over investment in Legion comes at the expense of building and demand generation initiatives which I think can create a couple of major problems so the first issue with this is that by focusing a disproportionate amount of effort on lead gen activities that these companies are missing out on getting in front of a massive percentage of their Market so we're working with one company in particular it's B2B company obviously that that could have sales cycles that are years in length so very simple uh similar to Irene um who mentioned you know one and a half to two years this company in particular can have uh sales cycles that are like three to five years for massive massive projects and so this means that um essentially 90 of their Market or so is out of buying mode in any given quarter and that's a huge group not to focus on in a meaningful way so that's that's the first issue that can happen the second is investing in leads companies often under fund longer term demand generation approaches which are the the types of approaches that can really enable B2B companies to make huge leaps forward when it comes to sustained revenue and market share growth so there's often this short-sighted view resulting in a lack of investment in the future in favor of funding these shorter term lead gen marketing initiatives and it can cause companies to kind of have to Lurch from sales activation to sales activation so the key thing for B2B marketers to deeply understand is the length and complexity of the buying sales cycle that they're working with with their prospects to ensure that the marketing approach is consistent with what prospects are looking for as they move towards a purchase and when dealing with long sales Cycles it's far more likely that a prospect is out of buying mode at any given time like and your strategy should really these people in those they spend their time a not be conversion ready for 12 to 15 sometimes longer months so in these cases you have to be sure that you're adequately funding an effect of longer term demand gen play to feed into your demand capture initiatives which of course play a really important role as well yeah that's like I wanted to also touch on that 12-month time period as well um I wanted to talk a bit about how hard it is to kind of have any sort of attribution um during that period um because you have to consider how this has an effect on on measurement I think that's an important aspect so in general I guess long sales Cycles I believe are hard to met are harder to measure um this is because the B2B buyer's journey is pretty convoluted and long like you like you mentioned miles I think it's a huge red herring for marketing teams um though the red herring can be last click attribution so attributing the majority of the credit to the last touch marketing touch Point uh someone has within your strategy or Communications um generally it oversimplifies what really happened and gives way too much weight to the last marketing tactic in the chain so um I know many B2B marketers also recognize this um but it's way easier I would say to build a business case based off of attribution so while they might recognize the log sales Journey budget allocations still don't seem skewed in the right ways to uh actually represent what a solid demand generation campaign would need and I think to maybe explain this I don't Michael I I might try to actually put in words what a recent Journey our agency took to find a SAS software is actually I don't know that'd be awesome man can I do you mind if I uh like sketch it out as you go just so we can model this out a bit if you can follow me I think okay you're ready all right let me let me try so this is this is an example of a recent Journey our agency took to find a new software and it kind of shows just how convoluted and long many of these Journeys are so pretty much a team member of ours watched a sponsored clip of a webinar on LinkedIn so clips from a webinar were sponsored on LinkedIn they saw an ad after watching that clip they began to see ads for the SAS product for the next month or so on LinkedIn due to just a re retargeting ad flow so at the same time what happened was a sales rep a senior sales rep from the company also sent them an invitation on LinkedIn to connect and they accepted that invitation so they connected with another person from that SAS company they then read an article that that sales rep shared that pretty much kind of like piqued their their interest um the sales rep was sharing a lot of content and they they clicked one of the pieces they watched one of the pieces and clicked to the website so while on the site they just kind of noticed how valuable the content was on the site so they signed up for some direct emails for new releases of that content and over the next month or so what happened with this this teammate of ours was that they they saw a subject line that that caught their eye so uh that what they what they decided to do after they saw that this email was had a subject line that was relevant to them was uh they forwarded to a strategist was who was currently searching for solutions for that business challenge specifically the strategist then kind of read the article and reached out to the company a few days later by conducting a simple Google search so if you followed that Journey there's a lot of things that happened multiple people multiple tactics and at the end of the day it would show up if you're looking at last click attribution as a sales qualified lead from an organic source so that's how we started using like the research platform kind of spark Toro and what happened was they had a very strong sales president presence on LinkedIn they're connecting with people they were commenting they were sharing content they had a great content strategy they had a lot of helpful resources that made it kind of an automatic sale once we found the business case to use their product and it isn't reflects that reflected in last click attribution and I from what I can see Michael you did a fantastic job drawing this out is that pretty fair yes I think that that looks pretty fair and you can see how complicated it is it is and kind of you're forgetting all of the things on the left um of the image and you're just kind of looking at the what happened on the right end a signing budget or cutting budget based off of that which is no good totally that's a oh man that's such a good example uh it seems like it seems like last click attribution is like the default approach when you're setting up campaigns right like which ad led to this conversion or sailor meeting um so if not last click like how should a business think about this instead so yeah like you said the default approach the thing that is easier to build a business case off of easier to see the success in that approach is dangerous that last click approach you can promote tactics like you can end up promoting tactics that don't deserve it and you can cut tactics that are working so it's kind of safe to say that like we've said there's a perfect customer Journey from awareness to ads awareness ads to purchase is just not going to happen and while building best practice funnels and measurement in there as well as having a well set up CRM is still very important um you should try to conserve your marketing teams time Insanity to stop striving for that perfect measurement in that complicated complicated uh Journey some things that you can do instead or in addition are actually just adding qualitative data to the mix specifically from your customers and your sales team so do interviews with your customers ask them to give you feedback on your content or tactics is that content solving problems of theirs would they recommend it to a colleague of theirs to read ask the sales team questions like ask your client sales team questions or ask your sales team questions would they share it with their Network that's that's a big one if you're creating content that your sales team doesn't want to share that should be a metric that you strive for you should have your sales team putting your company's content in their feed so another simple thing like outside of interviews which can definitely be time consuming and um in intricate in the way or there's some sorting out of how you can approach your customers in that way but another very simple thing you can do to get customer feedback is adding a field on your website forms that asks where did you first hear of us so back to your first question that's another simple way that you can add that qualitative data and we've actually done this so we've added this field to clients forms and have seen like this one example I can give is actually a 20 increase in attribution to marketing efforts compared to just pulling Google analytics numbers so this is showing us that in many cases marketing is grossly underrepresented upper underrepresented when compiling kind of the B2B attribution reports so in that example like the one that you gave with the SAS company for instance um if you would have asked that person how they heard about you instead of saying I Googled you they would have said I heard about you from so and so in my department and that would have given you one more piece of the picture exactly like you need that fast kind of you you want to evaluate data on kind of that monthly Cadence but also say quarterly look at that qualitative data to see if there's any misalignment or things that you that would that were underrepresented that you could actually point to and say hey there's uh there's a case for this being a strong tactic because people are finding us through it and they're excited they're telling us about it so yeah like what what you find there is like your b2bf marketing efforts should drive digital word of mouth and that's not showing up in attribution reports in last click attribution so digital Word of Mouth people call it uh like that's a simple way of saying it dark social is is kind of a term that you you can look up and um dark social activities those are the things that are happening um not online that are extremely valuable activities and impossible to kind of measure so you'll need to pull it out of your clients rather than just observing their online Behavior so someone who for example someone who listens to your podcast and forwards an article from your site to their boss on slack that is not going to show up in your attribution report someone you can't trace the bump and close rate um kind of at the bottom of the funnel of your marketing funnel because your content is answering all the prospects objections so that your sales team doesn't have to um take those on the call so it's it's hard to measure those things so you actually have to get kind of your hands dirty and start asking questions and getting to the bottom of it so kind of with all that I know that the initial question was just kind of if not last attribute last click attribution what should we be doing um for measurement and I think it depends it depends if you're doing demand generation or demand capture and for demand generation tactics generally you want to add qualitative insights to your your quantitative insights like platform kpis analytics and CRM and then for demand capture like Miles said earlier it relies more on measuring opportunities books booked pipeline Revenue driven uh and and metrics that are even further past the marketing qualified lead of just getting an email or something like that so yeah that kind of I know Natalia you have actually um found because so let me rephrase this so when we're taking form submission and qualitative data doing customer interviews um reviewing things quarterly that data flow is very slow so I know that's not okay for a lot of marketers you want more quick feedback on if your marketing efforts are working so Natalia I know you have a great system for actually assigning metrics to broader demand generation awareness efforts um is there anything you can share on what's worked for you and our team internally definitely well what works in in measuring pay the marketing success and has clearly changed over time especially after implementing uh demand generation strategies um so if miles was mentioning at the beginning of the conversation the purpose of demand gen campaigns is to put relevant content in front of the company's target audience with sufficient monthly frequencies so as to keep the company top of Mind throughout the year or two years um so or to whatever length you are planning to do so and this is a somewhat new approach in digital marketing and as a result new metrics need to be considered some metrics we have seen great success with to measure our Dimension efforts in LinkedIn are for example Impressions and frequency by company and job titles so in LinkedIn you can run campaign and select people working at which company and with which job titles you would like um to to get to serve to and this way you can see at a glance whether you are reaching the Right audience with your right messaging uh uh with the right messaging or not um so that would be one way we also like to keep an eye on in platform engagement metrics um such as for example video views to a hundred percent video completions I mean uh comments shares likes clicks through a carousel ad and one cool feature is that in LinkedIn for example uh you can see exactly who reacted to your ads and therefore you can run a quick quality check and and really make sure these users are part of your target audience with again company and and job title uh quality checks another way I can think of to measure success for example if to keep track of uh the organic followers Evolution Trend and check if if a significant increase in inorganic page followers has taken place after launching to your demand gen ads I would say um take a look at your organic follower rate before maybe monthly organic follower rate before launching Dimension ads and then after and compare the two we have seen for example that the average monthly organic follower number has increased from 32 to 50 percent after launching a demand gen compare comparing uh yeah the rate that that took place before lunch that's super interesting and I love what you were saying about kind of like the hybrid metrics and taking the things that previously you might have written off like why likes click shares and combining them with something that is helping you understand the audience quality I I really like that that sense of like creating a hybrid metric to actually make a case for the quality of your ads and and where they're serving I know also you do a lot of like deep dive into attribution as as well is there anything you could share that in that sense well if you like hybrids and and if you are up to doing a little forensic work uh we we've also been looking for new context from your best served companies in your in the in our client CRM and so for example if we had run a LinkedIn campaign and and we know a b and c were the best served companies uh we would go into the client CRM and look uh whether there have been new contacts coming from those companies so of course this source is not likely to be from pay that because of the attribution issues do you like we're just talking about but if we know there were like 10 or 15 companies that were best served with our LinkedIn ads and then we see new leads coming from those 10 to 15 specific companies I mean there's no way to affirm or deny this is not related without maybe as you were saying asking the lead directly through through a form submission or a subsequent question how did you hear about us so really to make the long answer short um I would say that what works best for evaluating Dimension efforts would be to measure how many times users from the right companies and with the right job titles are seeing your apps how frequently these users are seeing your ads I would say our sweet spot is three to four times a month but again that sometimes depends on on your content creation capacities and also tracking organic follower growth uh adding a field to your contact forms asking the good old how did you hear from us and if you're up to a little forensic work dive into your new organic leads coming from your best serve companies in your CRM and my head's spinning uh some really good tips so a lot of that applied to LinkedIn with the looking up of the who is responding to the ad or reacting to it you can look up the person you can see the what job titles you're reaching I how would you does this apply to other campaign types too like have you done anything like this with like Google search or anything like that yeah definitely sure I can search yeah I can share some interesting examples um so Michael as we perfected our demand capture approach uh with these um clients with longer sales Cycles we have not only detected a need for demand gen campaigns but we also noticed uh two different uh search term categories I would say uh which we have identified as top of funnel and Baltimore funnels Search terms so essentially bottom of funnel terms are usually searched by users that are ready to buy a good example for a bottom of funnel search term could be keywords including higher intent terms such as price or buy um for example this machine price or buy this machine name these users searching keywords and e-commerce exactly are ready to buy but um top of funnel terms those tend to be more General and use usually search by users that are still in the research part of the process for example benefits informations are some top of funnel terms we often see they are looking for Alternatives evaluating different companies so not quite there yet but soon to be so identifying this top funnel and bottom of funnel Search terms is crucial for for any B2B search strategy and of course I would say that both are important as we would like our ads to be in absolutely every stage of the customer Journey I.E not only when users are in buying mode but also as part of the alternative search um nevertheless um we need to make sure we are keeping both bottom of funnel and top of funnel terms budget separate so as to understand each group's impression share and therefore our ideal ad spend so we don't want them all mixed up under the same campaign and so just keeping bottom of funnel on top of funnels separate with separate budget and so we can measure them separately and make the best decision for our company we what percentage of our budget would we like to assign to each and why um and here's an interesting fact I think my my interest to you Michael as you were asking about other uh platforms um for example if you are using the Google Suite you can also Run YouTube campaigns as part of your demand gen efforts I know I was talking about LinkedIn before because it has such a narrow and specific targeting that you can actually Target users by companies and job titles which is great but YouTube and the groups will also have some specific demographic and by industry or job title um targeting categories and so if you're using YouTube for example as part of your demanding efforts you can integrate it you can integrate Dimension and demand capture for example you can create audiences based off of video viewers and then you can have that video viewers audience to your search campaigns and so you in this way you can measure how many users made a Google search after watching your YouTube video that's some powerful stuff Nat um I I the way I think about this is with us as marketers trying to figure out and attribute you're always trying to tie the tie like the initial marketing to a sale or to some conversion event at the end and it seems like with long sales Cycles with platforms changing and all these things you guys have brought up it's like all the doors keep closing on us but like the quote goes where where there's a door that closes there's a window that opens right I like that analogy so you just gotta get creative with the tools that are available and you gave a really great example with LinkedIn you gave a cool one with Google search and then you gave another one with using the combination of the Google Suite with the search and YouTube campaign those are great examples uh it was awesome now there's this elephant in the room uh that we all know about it's called iOS changes and there's um a lot of discussion happening around this so we're not going to go into the whole thing here but with respect to Long sales Cycles specifically um Mike we're talking about iOS changes and this has got to be another dimension of the whole picture right another challenge is that these businesses need to figure out yeah so iOS 14 changes um more stringent privacy options for individual users the biggest thing that has had an effect for long sales cycles and B2B companies is that these changes have actually killed pretty much killed browser-based micro conversions and this is a big deal because it changes the way that performance campaigns are measured on digital platforms so I'll explain a bit about micro browser-based micro conversions so since we know miles mentioned this earlier that 90 percent of B2B audiences are not actually in buying mode so unlikely to pass through a uni a unique identifier like their name email and things like that through a former or something like that so without those things going to your CRM without some sort of nurturing first what B2B marketers began to do were were optimized for events higher up in the funnel using micro conversions like PDF downloads calls page scroll goals on key pages and they would then optimize for these events by sending this information back to platform algorithms to optimize for those things and while these micro conversions are still valuable for interpreting like the success of um there's interpreting successful traffic generators and understanding which content is kind of keeping people on the site more understanding what they're doing on the site platforms cannot actually use it to narrow down your audience algorithmically to do to users opting out of sharing their data with the platform so this is kind of really killed that that ability to narrow down on your audience from in channels that aren't necessarily A LinkedIn so on meta there's some Niche audiences that So Meta Facebook and Instagram there's some Niche audiences that are hard to find for some B2B companies and with that process you'd actually be able to let Facebook's algorithm do the work tell them uh positive website events and they'll just kind of find your audience even though you don't have good targeting options like job title or um Industries or business size or whatever that may be so B2B marketers now that these micro conversions are gone are forced to pay more attention to channel selection and quality ad Construction and audience quality um those things are extremely important now for B2B marketers in Long sales Cycles uh so that like it's made us better you can't just trust a platform to kind of throw your ads out to the throw the same generic ads out to the same to the universe and they have Facebook's algorithm narrow down who exactly should see those you have to write copy that is more specific to that audience so that it's more of like a dog whistle copy as we call it so that like hey this ads for me I'm going to engage with it uh you're gonna have to actually build audiences on channels that matter in the right ways and I know that this hyper Focus has come with uh a real focus on channel selections and and Natalia you've you've done some solid work in that realm do you have anything to add thanks Mike I think you've you've covered most of it um for companies with long buying Cycles um I think thinking through their pay that strategy in in the long term is crucial um that would include choosing platforms with detailed targeting features that would ensure their Right audience and it is super important the Right audience is reached with sufficient monthly frequency so as to keep the company top of mind or an orange so it's not a matter of if uh but a matter of when they are going to purchase from that company um that's why for these particular companies I would recommend choosing platforms with detailed targeting Target targeting features I would agree with you um LinkedIn ads could be an excellent choice for example as a as I was mentioning before it allows us to Target users through demographics as narrowest company job title years of experience and also choosing other platforms that also offer industry demographic targeting features and or this is something important retargeting functionalities such as for example retargeting video viewers so a user would engage with your app it would become a part of your audience and then you could serve a second layer messaging to those users who are more familiar with your brand and that could work very well too I would say in meta and and YouTube those two come to mind and with that I think we're 45 minutes in so I'm gonna wind this down um miles do you have any any final thoughts you want to share I think we didn't cover no I think we've uh We've covered them I'd like to do another session where we dive a little bit deeper into some of our approaches for demand gen and uh some of our approaches for demand capture I think that might be a good follow-up where we could maybe walk through a few more examples and actually illustrate how the approach changes um not only tactically speaking but also from the strategy standpoint at the highest level I think that would be awesome um so yeah thank you guys so much for joining on here um I'm gonna try to do my best to do a quick recap and this is not going to be complete you'll probably have to go back to get all of the specific tips and awesome stuff that was shared throughout but my big two takeaways were number one was to be intentional so to be intentional with your marketing strategies especially we know there's a long buyer Journey so thinking about using not just the lead gen stuff the stuff that converts at the end of this at the end of the cycle it hits 10 think about the whole the big picture use the man Gen M and demand capture so be intentional about that and then number two measuring creatively so Mike and that you guys shared so many cool tips about how you could actually implement this on a ton of different channels that was um I'm glad we had time to go into some specifics there um so yeah get creative with your attribution the you know that some of the ideas that come to mind were the the form how did you hear about us form it sounds kind of obvious but like man if you implement that in your business you're gonna get some some insights that you never imagined you would get so I would I would highly recommend putting that into your onboarding process and then just using things like the audience insights from YouTube and Linkedin sounds great um before we sign off Mike was there anything we didn't cover from the live chat that came in Michael I'd hate to do I hate to do this for you or to you after you drew out all those things for me but I'm having technical difficulties and I see nothing nowhere no yeah I don't think we had any direct questions come in no didn't see it great job thanks Marty appreciate it appreciate you being here with us um yeah so if that's all I'm gonna sign off thanks and Mike miles Natalia you guys were awesome uh honored to be on the the live stream with you guys and to everyone who is watching live thank you so much for being here and sharing this with us very happy to have you with us and uh to those who watch in the future hello and uh we'll see you uh see you when you watch us um thanks again guys signing off we'll see you all in the next live