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foreign [Music] that's Andy and that is PIM what are we talking about today Pim we are talking about what people get wrong with the economic buyer ah yes our friend the economic buyer what's what's the thing that people get wrong about you can revive him well I think the first thing not properly identifying the economic buyer and then as a follow-on not engaging with them yeah yeah definitely I think I think when you have as as we work with our customers a very sort of you know a clear criteria of things traits responsibilities that economic buyers should have that you can run a risk of first off over qualifying particularly if you say things like you know an economic buyer has a veto power they can say no one ever say yes and yes or another say no well then all roads would lead to the CEO because even if you've got someone second in command well they can still be vetoed by the CEO so people you have to apply sort of a level of Common Sense and sort of you know um intuition almost to that definition because otherwise you always end up over qualifying yeah and and then typically sellers do business if they're doing a good job more than once with the same customer right so assuming that the EB is always going to be the same person is another one that I think is quite close to what you were saying there yeah because it can change all the time so you could do a deal from one month to another month and a number of things can change right you could the the economy can change and therefore you know everything kind of goes through an extra layer of scrutiny and often that extra layer of scrutinies where things kind of bubble up for lower values almost you know things you know you normally a person have a x sign off and now has to go somebody else for the sign off other things that can go on is you know your deal size can change so yeah typically um deal sizes are gonna change right it's very unusual that you'd have one deal followed by another it's either a land and expand and it's getting bigger which means you know the economic buyers most definitely you know in that case the common thing will happen there is the economic buyer gets more senior because you're asking for more money and probably a bigger investment in a number of other things like resources um but the other thing can happen is like you do a big deal and then you've got a you know a smaller upsell then you might buy might change then exactly yeah and so it can yeah it can definitely change so you can overqualify you can also under qualify right how would you describe under qualifying well I think uh under qualifying it is is think well that that works with a different Persona as well sometimes it can be that you have a champion that doesn't have the level of power and influence where you need them to be and then by ex well while utilizing them the identification and engagement status for the EB is off as well and then there's like this under qualification right and I think right now and you sort of touched on it a second ago uh everyone's saying like yeah it's stuff out there right it is the economical climate but really businesses are still doing well right you just need to level up like if you if you think about getting access to Authority and if you think about uh uh really qualifying where um where you get uh well the the right engagement going with the right stakeholders I think there's an opportunity for everyone to just do better by way of thinking about it in in this context yeah absolutely right and I think one of the mistakes I see that people make frequently is they assume that because this person is typically more senior then not going to be interested that they're just like some sort of line in the approval process and therefore you know we just need to sort of spend as little that you know they're they're very senior and therefore we don't want to bother them yeah and they only care about pricing yeah yeah and actually that that's a massive red flag for your selling yeah because that would tell me that if you use something like the value pyramid you know you are too far down on the value pyramid because if you're selling correctly then you should be making sure you're attaching to the the most important things to that organization and by Nature the economic buyer is going to care most about those things so the idea of them not being interested you something's gone wrong there massively yeah and again like the identification status if there's like this pricing thing and you're you're seeing that then you're probably have your eyes on someone who isn't the economic buyer right that's that doesn't fit the profile yeah and you said something brilliant I want to pick up on as you said that they only care about price um and of course we talked about how they care about you know the actual solution itself but also it's not just your point not just caring about price it's it's they obviously care about price they really care more about the economics of it and therefore what's included in economics is not just the price it's the cost to the business so it's like what's the opportunity cost here how much you know how much investment of not just money but resource do we have to put into this and that's not just like a binary you know is that a good amount or a bad amount thing it's actually relative to other projects that they'll be looking at because by Nature we know of an economic buyer belief them there'll be at any one time multiple Champions working on multiple different Investments not just of Technology but of all kinds of different things and that economic buyer will be saying well I've only got a finite amount of resources cash resources in terms of like Consultants project managers all that kind of stuff and so that's that's what they really care about as well as like time to Value resource costs the actual costs from their budgets as well so yeah yeah all right so what we got there we've got people either over qualify or they under qualify they don't think it's important enough to engage they think the economic buyer doesn't care or is not interested about their solution what else always the same person or he's the same person and yeah yeah I think maybe the the final thing to say is that some businesses a few that I know of are selling to different lines of business to their customer right so there might be a solution that they have for uh this part of the business here and then also something for the entire different side of the business and they still think that that you know economic buy would be one in the same person so it goes back to the point that we were making earlier on but so you need to to to build your understanding by triangulating working with your Champion to understand how they buy for that specific thing right and so that's that's like the last thing or a lot of I imagine a lot of people listening to this is all their ears have picked up of that because it's like the the common place that I see that is where um a solution is very strong in a particular sector yeah and they're used to selling to a particular economic buyer you know it's only if it's a marketing solution they used to sign to the CMO if it's a security solution they're used to sell into the CSO and all of a sudden Your solution which is a good thing gets more broad yeah and all of a sudden that marketing solution actually helps with customer service and all of a sudden you can is not just the CMO anymore it's the chief customer officer as an example yeah I think you see this a lot with things like Acquisitions and and like innovations that are a little bit further away from the core portfolio of customers right and I think we see it with some of our customers as well and so if you if you start to to to zoom out a little bit and adopt this this kind of mindset around personas especially like EBS um there's a lot of value to be unlocked there so wow a lot of things people get wrong about you know about spin cheers [Music] thank you