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[Music] welcome to madman this is Andy and that's Pim and what are we talking about today Pim today we're talking about what people get wrong with metrics yes metrics is probably no not probably it's definitely the the element of medpic that people have the most problem with right and I think that's fair enough because I they're not easy are they pimp they're not easy and I think that that's like the very first thing to say here right assuming that they're easy well that's that's that's a mistake but equally it provides a great opportunity right the fact that they're not easy if you can do it like you have the edge yeah it's like one oh like a lot of things in selling if it's easy if it's if your competition is doing it then you're not differentiated so just like your solution needs to be differentiated you can differentiate Yourself by selling better and by getting deeper into the metrics there's a lot of value for you behind the difficulty that metrics hold yeah and and you know one of the things I think on this topic that people often get wrong about metrics is that they think they have to be some sort of what I call like mckenzie-esque oh yeah I like human full report yeah completely detailed and it's like yeah I know what you mean and I think there's there's some interesting Insight in that thought as well because what we're saying is metrics don't have to be that deep sometimes they can't be that deep right and the reason they can't be that deep is because McKinsey they're pretty good at going and getting that stuff but even they don't walk in and just sort of lick their fingers stick it in the air and go oh wow this this process here is inefficient 23 and it's costing you 3 million a year yeah they have to do the work and that's what you have to do with metrics yeah that's true but at the same time it's also not that you go in with the expectation like okay the customer has these metrics and I can now just uncover and extract it from them right yeah yes exactly right and you know when you say that the customer has these metrics I think one of the things that I think that people do really get wrong is they they think about the customer as like a single entity rather than an organization full of multiple different stakeholders who all have different interests so you know if you're a seller listening to this right now consider a deal you're working on consider that if you've got metrics on it if you think they're great then that's cool but you know ask yourself who cares about those metrics and if you think that they've you know everybody cares about the same metric in the same way probably not it's very unlikely what you need to make sure you're doing is kind of getting into what each person cares about and that goes back to pain of course doesn't it goes back to pain it goes back to making sure that the metric attaches to the overall business initiative that's that's really what the business is driving towards so you know what people get wrong about metrics they see them in isolation they don't think about them in relation to multiple stakeholders they don't think about them in relation to the pain that they've uncovered and implicated they don't think about it in terms of how does this metric support this organization's wider business initiative yeah and I you know that that's the issue but if you start doing it it also skills right as it pertains to Persona when you identify the typical way that that a pain would look like for the Persona as it pertains to the the pain that you would solve for like that scales up right so if people do go down the path of really getting to do to an understanding here and again that takes time it's difficult a lot of value to be unlocked yeah and I think that's a really good point in terms of if we are you know we we have our M1 M2 M3 framework which we can talk about in a moment but the the concept behind an M1 is where you're taking value that you found with other customers to a potentially new customer and using that story behind the value the story behind the metrics of you know what state they're in before what value was you know what value was being lost what value we uncovered for them and delivered to them and the metric that measures that value that is the the nucleus of an M1 and she'll point there about it scaling the more you talk metrics the more you can deliver personalized metrics to the customer which is what we call an M2 and then of course once you win the deal because you will be more likely to win it if you're using medpic you can then do the Handover to our friends in post cells yeah where an M2 becomes a an M3 and this is again a point where I think a lot of people go wrong right it's like okay we have the closing and the selling medpic is taking place there and and metrics by extension as well and so deals one okay Biometrics like we want the deal right so that's done but really it extends beyond beyond that and and the M ones they are already delivering value for your business before the customer is talking to you as a seller right so yeah so I think that uh the thing of getting wrong there is thinking about metrics only in that closing and selling stage opposed to the entire customer lives because once the M3 is in place which is being like the the target of the partnership right after the deal has been won yeah when that is delivered when that value is delivered and after sales and or yeah customer success is clear on that being the target and it's now realized it becomes an M1 again right so marketing yeah yeah and I don't want to you know I want to stay away from Solutions too much because but the challenge or the yeah the thing that people get wrong is quite clear the flip side of it's like massive opportunity right if you start doing this yeah so summarize it's not easy it's not easy you don't have to be mckenzie-esque yeah and you shouldn't be expecting that the customer has the metrics for you yes yeah the customer is very unlikely to have metrics it's almost like if they do what's gone on as has a competitor been in like you know there's question marks there yeah it's that mindset of like hey professional seller professional buyer probably not right yes 99 of their day-to-day is spent in other activities yes other than buying your type of solutions yep so not easy don't be Mackenzie ass don't expect the customer to have metrics make sure that you tie your metrics back to the pain back to the stiff make sure you're considering all stakeholders make sure you're tying it's the business initiative that the customer really cares about what else Pim not uh thinking about it in the context of the full customer life cycle now that's it all right cheers foreign