Empower your Facilities with More Revenue for facilities

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Rob Christensen runs four home care agencies and day Services he created a brand new high margin Revenue stream for placement fees when the need arises for a client to go into a facility stay tuned to learn how it works welcome to the Home Care Heroes and day service Stars podcast if you provide services to keep older or disabled people living at home then this podcast is for you now here's your host Ken aardi well hey everybody welcome to another episode of Home Care heroes in day service Stars I have a great guest today his name is Robert Christan I met Rob few years ago out on the west coast and and Rob actually I think at the time was running four different home care agencies and he's actually sold off a couple of those and he's adding some in different geography so he's like a definite veteran of the industry but something that is fascinating about Rob and he's turned this into a side business as well is is that he he kind of said well what's what's a bad day in your Home Care Agency is that you lose a client because you know unfortunately they're they're just not going to be okay with home care anymore maybe they need to be in some kind of H facility and that type of thing and what Rob kind of figured out is well if we have relationships with those facilities in our area and we help our client find the right place that we could actually um you know we could actually get a mission for helping those people and we're of course providing a service to our clients and uh has you know created just a new growth path for that so first of all I I've been babbling on here but let me introduce our Rob Christensen Rob welcome and thank you for being on the show today hey thanks for having me Ken um it's been fun just kind of ping ponging off off things up with you over the last two years and so uh thanks for the introduction yeah it's a pleasure and um okay so like you know so kind of tell us more I mean I kind of introduced the idea but how did you get this idea aide of like you know making making placements well you know I've been doing this now for 12 years in the Home Care space right and um one thing that you find is when your home care company you know we make our bread and butter off of servicing clients in our own home and um two things happen a lot either the client's going to run out of money um and can no longer afford home care you know or the care levels that they need um you know it's kind of beyond your scope as a home care company right and so a lot of times we is just wanting to hold on to our clients too long and some you know because it's our bread and butter of how we make our living right um and um what I found was as I as my clients got sicker or as they ran out of money were running out low on money I'd get this call from them saying hey we're going to discontinue home care because we need to make a change right and so um so I started thinking about that and um uh that's when I came up with the concept of you know really focusing on um full service senior care and so when we bring on a client now we educate them about home care and what Home Care does and then then the value also of Assisted Living you know and let them know hey there may come a time where they're either cash flow wise or care uh needs where we you may need to transition you know so we really take a full approach so they know that we're looking out for their for their overall well-beings as we care for them right and uh yeah and and and really we've transferred we've also went to our our referral sources and said the same thing you know you know whether you're discharging somebody that needs home care or senior placement you know we're your full service you know Home Care um senior care you know agency um and so that's kind of how the concept evolved and and uh now it's it's really easy when we're working with our families uh and clients um you know we do our 90-day service you know visits and see where they're at and uh check in if they're looking in for placements or um and so we probably transition about 10% of our clients a month you know from home care to uh um to senior placements wow okay yeah so it's uh it's really about you know what the needs of that person is at that time and that's actually much higher percentage than I thought it would be but yeah I guess if you think of the longevity in folks in home care it makes a lot of sense yeah okay so here I mean you know this is very altruistic to begin with and things like that you know we want to help them get into a better place and all that sort of thing but you actually have found that you there's there's a little bit of a financial benefit there so how does that aspect work well sure so um you know a lot depending on what size of the community is but if you got these smaller Board and Care Homes that are in communities that are you know six to eight beds you know and so if if a facility goes you know without you know two vacancies in a month you know it can really be the difference of them being you know operational or not right and so um and there's no different that you know when it comes to adding costs to a facility um whether you're going from seven to eight clients or you're really roughly the same cost right and so a lot of these facilities and it's pretty standard in the industry where if you are an agency that services that provides this service these facilities will pay you depending on what state you're in um you know 100% of Board and Care you know um if they come in and and sign with you so it's a it's we have contracts you know in the Northwest we have 1,500 contracts and you know throughout the United States we have we have others as well um and if they if they start care if they start one of our clients then they pay us the the the first month Board and Care um and if they don't take our clients they don't owe us anything you know so uh sometimes they don't need our services and sometimes you know they do need our services so it's a it's a good working relationship with our communities they work with and then a lot of times those facilities that we're working with when they need a sitter or they need somebody so they don't lose them they'll call us and we can provide you know you know Care by providing a sitter in a facility or maybe they just need somebody overnight because they're low on their their Staffing in the evenings um so it's a it's a good partnership with facilities yeah perfect so yeah I was goingon to say that so the other thing is if you have relationships with these facilities like a lot of our home care agencies end up getting referrals you know so somebody who's in assisted living but or maybe even let's say if it's a Continuing Care retirement Community maybe they're in more of an independent living but they're they're kind of not quite to the level where they needed to be assisted living or nursing care that kind of thing but they might need some Home Care help so you have now a relationship with them as your Home Care Agency and they're you know you're probably the first person on their mind when they're referring is that has that turned out to be the case as well that you're getting referrals from those uh facilities that you place people in yeah absolutely you know we not only we're getting referrals and you know because it's kind of a two-way we're getting paid by them for bringing them people and then you know they don't want to lose people because they need to go to a higher level or or uh like if they're in the independent Lev so yeah they have they uh really see us as a marketing site on their side as well that they can provide as needed home care services so yeah it's a great two-way relationship yeah perfect so it's yeah symbiotic you're making you know kind of money and there's now like kind of two revenue streams from that okay so I guess um you know now you kind of we've talked about how you figured out how to do it on your own and for your agencies and your geographies but then you actually you know went uh further and you said okay well this is a service that we've learned a lot about and we could actually create uh some software online that you know would help other people you know do this so and the software is called uh placed pla C D and the the website is eldercare placement software.com and that sort of thing so if I were to sign up for for place then you know am I what am I getting in place like you know and how is that helping me as a you know as an agency trying to make these placements well what happened was as this side of my business this Revenue line started to grow it became difficult to manage I mean for those of us manage a home care company imagine um having 30 40 caregivers and not having the anota platform or a platform to communicate with your caregivers and assigning shifts right you'd be constantly picking up the phone answering text messages looking at emails there was no way to really scale um and so you know having the background and using multiple Home Care platforms like inota um we kind of took some of those similar functionalities you know and so uh we started working with facilities and about seven years ago started this platform called place you mentioned that is very similar and functionality that you're we've got right now we have 70,000 facilities in our database also Al about 50,000 referring facilities the hospital skilled nursing facilities and so all of these assisted living facilities or Memory Care units they have their own secure portal just like the caregivers have their own apps and we now when we get a client or working with a client that is looking at a memory care unit in a certain zip code you know we can with through a text message or through an email um you know send them a HIPPA sec cure communication where they can look at the plan of care um and decide if this is an appropriate patient you know or or resident for them and then uh communicate back so it's a really a quick way for us to communicate with facilities them to communicate back with us share information um and then share that with families um and allows us to really um uh you know scale the business uh appropriately and also all of our referral sources Hospital case managers nursing home case managers ERS they have a secure landing page where they can when they're working with family members uh they can sign on and send us referrals and so those referrals dump immediately into our platform and then we have a CRM that we can do marketing to both family members and clients and um to our referral sources as well and keeping them posted on how things are going and stuff that we're doing so um yeah so placed evolved kind of the same way you need a platform to manage the home care business you know as this begins to grow and you start working with you know four to you know plus clients a week in in placements you really need something to to grow and um you know manage that business so that's what placed uh has become yeah that's fantastic so yeah if I kind of try to Bubble it down so first of all I have a directory of the facilities around me with your 70,000 that you've captured you know it's probably likely chance that most of the facilities around me are right there uh second thing is I have the ability to do like a CRM so I basically say okay these are the prospects that I have these are the people that I'm trying to place so you have a way of tracking those placements and that sort of thing you have a secure and hip a compliant way of communicating with the facilities and yeah and I think that uh one thing when you showed me a demo uh it was been a while back but you also you know have some matching criteria right so you know so if you're really trying to find the best facility for an individual person then you're you're you know you you can kind of send it out to them as you said and say well here is the information you know is this a good match for you but then you also I think have in some cases gained information about you know what might be the F the the more um appropriate facilities to check for this person yeah go ahead talk more about that all the facilities have their own secure where they can put in all the feature all the features about their facilities you know that it's they've got a private bit private rooms the shared rooms it's m you know um a secure memory care unit um two floors you know all the features that these facilities offer and amenities and then also all the services that they assist with you know medication administration um bathing dressing transferring toileting you know all the things that uh the features I mean the services that they provide well our software that builds a plan of care and uses those same features or services um in creating care plans so we're going to look at what are the services needed and what are the services provided and so it looks and says okay what's the best match both for services for amenities and features on the facility and also reimbursements and um and then you know we show that to the to our clients that we're working with and then of course we tore all these facilities before we go in right and so we've got boots on the ground we know the marketers we know every relationship with them and we do an assessment and so the platform has an assessment thing on there much similar to like a festar rating scale that Medicare does for nursing homes and so you're able to do an internal assessment and then 90 days or 60 days uh 30 30 to 90 days after they've been placed a patient satisfaction survey goes out to either a family member or if there's no cognitive impairment and the client you placed wants to do those surveys we colle we collect patient satisfaction surveys you know by uh about the facilities uh from those that we that were working with so and we share and you can share that information you know with other clients you know not that persons but it's overall we've placed 10 people in this facility and our rating was a 4.5 and the satisfaction rating is a matches that with a 4.8 you know and so so it's not just us but it's what our clients have said but in addition to that you know we also cont trct readmissions into hospitals so if you've got somebody who's coming out that has heart failure let's say you know and now the hospital is being held accountable to readmissions within you know 60 days or 90 days right um then we have a platform where you can do these uh re-mission services and it will then trigger warnings of hey this could be a possible readmission to help prevent that and then when you've finished the 90 days if they haven't been readmitted then the those case managers that refer the business to you you can send them a report on how well their clients are doing and how much you as an agency are helping them achieve their goal of reducing Hospital readmissions okay so I you know so it was great we were talking a little bit more about how we have the matching we have the criteria I thought it's great that you you know you kind of sign up or you you probably you know use certain sources to find the facilities but then you give the facility the uh ability to tell them you know tell you more about what they provide and how they provide and what payers and all that kind of thing so I was with you there and then I was actually going to ask specific about you know kind of the readmissions thing so I know like taking a step back that you know hospitals uh you know for the last seven or eight years there been some legislation that said hey you know if you discharge somebody and they have a readmission then you know that's something that um you know kind of affects your reimbursement and that kind of thing so I guess I'm a little lost though like how you know how does the either the Home Care Agency or the facility you know kind of deal with with the readmissions thing and how does Place help with that aspect I kind of just didn't quite crystallized for me so you know for you know hospitals L hospitals they'll identify ing to Medicare standards you know 10 to 12 different disease States right where you know they're at higher risk for readmissions right and so Medicare actually pays clinics and they become Transitional Care management clinics right um there's I think two or three different ICD9 codes where Physicians are actually getting you know paid or clinics are getting paid to provide Transitional Care Management so Stu and it's basic stuff that we as a Home Care Agency most of us we're doing these Services anyways right so when we sign when you sign somebody up for services and you place them in somebody in your organization whether it's the person that's place that's helping them with the placement or or maybe You' got a nurse on staff you know because remember a placement a lot of times in Washington a placement is $8,000 in revenues you know um you know build 30 days from now so the margins are really are are are are are there's a lot of margin and room to have somebody help manage this process so when we place somebody in you know within 48 hours we try to give a phone call you know to the family member and just ask some basic questions like hey how was your discharge do you know your plan you know did you somebody review your discharge orders with you do you have your medications do you have your uh durable medical equipment right do you have a doctor's appointment set up you know some basic questions they if they don't have their durable medical equipment right if they don't have their medications there's a higher chance for readmission right and so you can flag that in the software as you're collecting that information and then it'll send an email directly to the onboarding person at that facility that hey we just completed some of our readmission Prevention Services and it looks like they're not aware of their uh their medications they need to be taking and they don't have their durable medical equipment you may want to follow up with them right and so those are things just to help that and then a week later you're going to follow up again and find out hey did you make it to your doctor's appointment how are things going do you have those things um have you gained any weight some additional questions there's about 10 um and then so that's a good checking point at about the 10 days to 14 days and then at the end the 30 days we just follow up with a final call you know asking pretty much the same questions um and if they're not readmitted they don't have any problems you know you complete the survey and it immediately sends a an email to the referral source the saying congratulations your referral source is yeah I mean you your your referral that you sent us has completed our readmission Prevention Services and they weren't readmitted and thanks for your trust in us and um and we'd love to service more of your your your Appliance and then it does the same thing to those hospitals I mean those those those um assisted living facilities letting them know hey great job in providing care for our client you know and and uh and and helping keep them safe at you know in your facility so and then you can generate all types of you know data and rep you know you know give that to your referral sources and so you're really bringing good value to your referral sources good value to your clients because you're providing that service to keep them home keep them in that facility safe and then um to your agency yeah so yeah so as we talked in the beginning I mean you're getting that placement fee and wow I mean $8,000 that would be like a you know that I had no idea those uh fees could be that that high so that's really impressive and then we talked earlier about now you would have the relationship with the facility so they're probably referring to you for home care and then they could also you know as part of your service you could make sure that those Transitional Care activities and like some of those um you know tenants of of you know high quality Transitional Care making sure that we have the right meds we have the right you know care plan we have our DME uh we have a follow-up doctor's appointment all those kinds of things you can assure those as well I totally get it okay so I um before we started recording I asked you because I had seen on the website that you kind of referred to an agency that I think in um their first you know 60 days uh working with you they did you like a large number of referrals and you know and I think it was 100,000 in placements in uh 60 days so like you know I mean you know without giving details like I mean that's somebody who also does home care right and like you know so so I think that a lot of times tell me a little bit more about them this uh this this agency that we were working with was doing you know they been doing home care and they were in business for about 8 to nine years so they've been in business for quite a while doing home care and you know I I know the owner and good friends and he was asking me what I was doing and and he was interested and so he just went to those same referral sources you know and said hey we're expanding and and now we're we're we are providing full senior consultive you know Services senior care services whether they need placements or home care and within the first 30 days he had rece I think it was about 44 referrals um uh that month for placement and he got a handful for home care as well because he continue to always get home care but specific placement referrals about 44 uh uh referrals and inside of the first 90 days he did $100,000 in placements uh that was about a year and a half ago and at this point now that company just hired their second placement person on uh or senior advisor you know whatever you want to title them um and they're doing well over $100,000 a month in placements um so they've really be been uh become to this this the referral sources that full service senior care company um where now they they just go to they kind of have one person they can go to they don't need to think okay here's the person I stand my referral placements and here's what I do with my home care um and then um then there's the existing home care business as well that you naturally would lose because they are you know moving out of Home Care to to to to uh to placement so it's been a great addition and and since then um in the last year we're we're growing rapidly in in agencies using our platform yeah fantastic so let me I mean um you know a lot of times I think when we on the podcast here we share a growth idea you know I think a lot of agencies are you there's like an inertial thing there it's like you know hey we do home care you know I mean this sounds you different you know that kind of thing um I mean we looked at the home care pulse report and we know that you know depending on your geography and your size that you know most home care agencies are making pretty low margins on Home Care uh but you know when you kind of gave that example earlier it sounds like you know with they're bringing on a second person so it's really been kind of one main person doing this uh placement service and you know and their revenue is is about 100,000 I would imagine that this placement person is not making 100,000 a month right so um you know as compared to the the caregiver who probably is making you know two-thirds of of the you know the hourly wage that you're you're collecting for the home care you know you might be paying that out to the caregiver but um so you know so I guess for people who are saying you know H I'm not sure I'm not sure you know like what are the margins like uh that you're seeing on the placement side well it's interesting because what happens is usually when you start when you start offering this service a lot of times you'll you know you'll set aside a percentage of and and you know it can be very very lucrative for your placement specialist that's in there um 40% you know even up to 50% you know so if um you've got somebody who has great relationships with referral sources and you're making you know some you know on the on average I think the average there's a National Association that you can the placement companies that work with I think the average place is about four grand nationally right you know so um you know we're talking $2,000 going to the placement rep and another ,000 going to to your agency um but as but as you grow though what happens is and I've some other companies that we've brought on you know they then really they bring on a nurse full-time or a licensed clinical social worker right and they come on at their regular nursing wages and rates you know and so now you have a more of a flat fee service you know where the the the nurse or the social worker that's working with these with the family to do the placement you know they're kind of flat feed Maybe with a little bit of compensation on top of that um but your marketer now is going out and marketing and getting picking up home care and they're also getting picking up placements and now they're getting paid a smaller commission like a 10% commission you know and so as the referral source comes in and you know you're able to scale and make those margins where there's 60 70 80% margin on top of of it when you're getting into the point where you're now billing in some of these agencies are doing $2 million in placements year you know so yeah unbelievable yeah and you know and I you used the term I think earlier as we were talking here you kind of called it full service senior care so really you know you're kind of expanding you know not only do we do home care or a lot of uh the audience now of this podcast is also people who run day centers and things like that but not only you're doing home care or daycare but you're providing a more complete service you know and you might find somebody who say hey you know the right thing for you now is the day Center the right thing for you is you know for you and your family is to have somebody in a facility and you're providing more of a service you're becoming more of a resource to your community and that kind of thing so I mean this is I think it's a home run uh Rob I'm really really really glad that you uh shared this with us today so I think we'll bring it to a wrap up I um you know so let me just say again one more time thank you to Robert Christensen Rob and also um you know if you'd like to learn more about this software that can really help you jump start in this business um go to the website it's Elder Care placement software.com and um you know so it's all one word eldercare placement software.com and that'll take you right there and you can get in touch with Rob and his team and get a demo of the system and you know take a take a serious look at adding placements and really adding to the capabilities of your agency so with that uh thank you so much Rob Christensen you thanks for having me Ken all right have a great day you too thanks for joining us today on the home care Heroes and today's service Stars podcast produced by anota you can listen to Back episodes by visiting for homare heroes.com that's the number four than the words homare heroes.com [Music]