Empower your business with an online conversion funnel in Onboarding forms

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hi guys this is azor I am the head of clothes at user palette thank you for joining us I really give the reins to Carlo and so that he can start presenting Carlo would you introduce yourselves yeah absolutely it's a pleasure to be with all the fine folks here and hope the weather is as good as here it's really sunny in Sofia Bulgaria today so I am the co-founder of pen charge though they are and this marketing automation platform we we focus on such companies and we help us companies converts more of their free users trial or premium users to paying customers through targeted emails and we mostly focus on the so called action based emails or trigger based emails and that's what this presentation will be primarily on today and yet hope hope you guys get some some value out of it and if you have any questions please don't hesitate I'd be happy to answer so should I share my screen and let me ask a question about the onboarding right so lecture oh why don't you doing it so I did ask them a question on the polls how Iran pudding so yeah just just look at how the people are currently doing it so did you drive right actually it's really it's really cool how how Damian enters the post its first time for me to say all the life numbers you know that videos great so you have some data say 50/50 you can get started right I will be having a couple of tough questions at the end but we will keep it for then I'll turn off my video so that everybody can focus on you and you can start sharing your screen right okay I'm sharing right so let me know if you see my my presentation all right so can you guys keep my presentation all right awesome cool brilliant all right so I'll just look at the chat window from time to time but yeah I'll be primarily here in the presentation so so yeah again we're going to talk about user onboarding emails and some some examples and best practices I've already introduced myself we we primarily help start companies convert more trial users to target detection driven emails to increase their trial conversion rate and retention and in this presentation we'll cover a few few main things first of all I'll show you some examples of fection triggered emails from from some of our customers as well as some great such successful stuff companies and then we're gonna talk about how to actually identify this action so what are the actions that we want to send emails about and towards the end of the presentation I will give you a real-life example for models from our one of our customers so you can see how this call flow how these emails are implemented and how you can actually implement them flow for for your products as well so there are a few people that answer that they don't know what I shouldn't really matter and in in a nutshell these are emails that you send when a user value or doesn't do something in your app so let's say you have let's say you have a product like in charge where the main benefit is to send emails so you want to send an you want to send an email when a user import their contacts or invite the team member so these are the action traded emails and these are the bread and butter of that's more or less and they they're much more effective they lead to higher conversion rates but are also much more difficult to execute and the reason you want to send these emails is that you probably already know that the majority of your trials will leave your website they will sign up you know take a couple looks at your your app maybe activate a feature tool and leave your website leave your products forever so the only way to get people back to your website and really push them down the onboarding process is to use emails and the best type of email you can use when it comes to sass are the so-called action trigger emails because they are in phase with the customer journey so and they get higher engagement for it for that reason so user receives an email when we care about that email so when they activate a feature or they started to work they started working on a feature like activating a future but haven't completed the whole process you can send it I guess for example the push or Nucci mails and they're really they really take into consideration the the journey of the user and there will be different users in Europe there will be some people that are really at the top of the funnel that are just evaluating tools so for those people you don't want to send like very advanced how-to guides ranging like that but there will be some people that are already familiar with with the features in Europe and they've activated you know a set of features so for the people that you've already experienced value you want you would want to send them for example upgrade email where you can actually push them to come to to make a purchase so these are these are what actually through your emails are and that's that's what makes them relevant really and here important things here to consider with people that are sending time-based emails is that most of time most of these emails would not be relevant for your users so for example let's say I sign up for your app and you have like let's say to do is type of app time project management or whatever and I invite a couple team members and I complete a few tasks in my India and a couple days later you send me an email that prompts me to go back to the Athens and complete my first task so this would be only relevant email to me and but the biggest issue here is that one irrelevant email would really leave a bad taste in my own borning experience and I was perceived hope onboarding onboarding email communication from now on as irrelevant and this is where it will this will dampen your onboarding results and email engagement so it is not just about you know sending one irrelevant email is the whole experience and how your users perceive the relevance of your messages and there are plenty of statistics on this so I'm not going to go training a vision board with numbers but if you could go around you will see that action based Twitter based behavior based email which is much more effective than just sending time based sequences so now looking at specific onboarding emails that you can take to improve your conversion rates we have found with our customers there is a set of emails that you really want to send and this pretty much applies for all free trial premium fast products so the first one is the welcome email which is nice and when user signs up you would won't also want to send reward emails then these are emails that you send when a user activates a feature or - the specific activity in your app so you you encourage them and you reward them for for their activity and you push them in the right direction the new Gmail is something you would want to send when a user it started to Eastern Europe but haven't completed the whole process so you want to get them back on track back in the app to complete this dirty action for for the users that are really active and engage with your app so they've already experienced within the app they've activated a few features maybe reach that so-called hard moment you would really want to send an upgrade email and don't wait until the trial expiration day to send out upgrade email and conversely for for the ones out there inactive the passive users that heaven engage with your app you would really want to offer them an extension and you would do that for an extension email and then we have the trial expiration email which is towards the end of your trial and then a post expiration feedback so in the next few slides I'm going to explore each type of email with examples from some of our customers as well a successful start companies like Wistia and you will see I will also provide a few tips of how to execute these emails better so the first email that pretty much every such company sends is the welcome email and decision you want to send on signup and this is the most engaged email let me see if I can actually put that on fullscreen maybe better where do it feel present yeah that's one it is better now all right let's hope this better alright so the first email is the welcome email and that email that to get the highest engagement in your email onboarding do you you could expect anything between forty to sixty percent open rate and the natural thing that most marketers do here is they try to include every single feature every single call to action resource webinar how to guy whatever in that email because like that's the first email with he does do the most engaged email so we gotta make sure it works so we gotta put more things into it and my approach in is a little bit different not only with the welcome email but with emails in general when we talk about onboarding and I like to keep it's really clear in simple so everything to email attend need to have one business go so why do you want to cheat with us now they want to get the user back to the app do you want to get feedback do you want them to read the blog post or learn more about you too whatever there's one single business goal for you and the next thing is to also consider the users desired outcome so what they want to achieve and this really ties in with the value proposition of your product so if you have up to like to do it or like to do management software they might want to save time or improve their communication with your with their team members and and and so on so once you know your business go and and the goal of the users their desired outcome what they're trying to achieve through your software is really easy to then create super emails with a single call to action and it depends on how you want to structure your flows but I encourage them if you're not sure what to include is a welcome email is just feel playing the main benefit of the software if you think how the software works in entry steps just reset and also give them some indication of what the users will expect from trial so how long the trial is how is going to work what features are available accessible and what not and the next thing is really that single call to action which is to encourage the next the next critical action in Europe so in the case of to do is that might be create your first task and here you can see actually got it wrong does the wrong screen so sorry guys ignore this screen here it's not the welcome email but the welcome email is really would yeah again explain the benefit show if you know explain what you can expect from the trial and give them a single call to action to go back to the app and do whatever is most important like a next critical action right so the report you know and I think I've switch these two all right so sorry about that so that's that's that's the welcome email so here you see the screenshot of a welcome email and you can eat here this is one of our customers very marked their HR reference software you can see the intro from the the co-founder you can see the benefit so they they've quantified the benefits of the software which is 33% faster checking method reference checking method they've also explained how the software works in images the few steps they provided the information about the the trial so how long the prowess and what they can expect from the trial and then you can see for them for very much the next critical action is to get a person gets it get a user to create their first reference check so we don't give them any links to webinars like dogs we don't like we don't you know give them links to every single feature in our app we just provide one single call to action in that email that gets user back-end ask them to play the reference check so this is an example of welcome you know the next email is the reward email and this is actually the screenshot of the reward email which is totally got run and the reward email is something you want to send when a user does a specific activity in iraq successfully so whether they invite the team member created their first staff created their first email to be the little treats that you send in your users inbox to make them move towards achieving their desired outcome and if we go back to the previous slide this is that exact exact outcome that we have in mind travel throughout our whole email onboarding communication and we want to encourage here only the activities that are critical for them to experience that outcome so whether that stayed in time or indicates of very much faster checking reference checking you really want to encourage all those value actions only those actions that provide value you don't want to send a reward email for every single feature in your app because this will just will be will be just too overwhelming and will again dampen the whole onboarding experience and you can see the reward email here of with you which is pretty awesome and when you create your first video they change this Punk illustration and another important thing to consider without it without email is you want to show them better ways to use that feature so this is again moving people towards the desired outcome so you can see indication with you they've congratulated me for holding the first video but they'd also given me opportunity to customize my video with some nail and colors and whatnot so I can continue my onboarding experience the next one which is really really powerful email is for the people that before started doing some in Europe something really important in Europe but haven't completed it and the goal the the push or nudge email is to get those people back to the app but not only like you know standard like you should do this or like submit a new request or whatever but you just give them a reason explain why they need to do that why they should spend 5 10 15 years to complete that and if you see here in the example we need example very mark they've they've handle one of the objections that background checks are no fun and they've also tried to emphasize the problem of the traditional reference check methods that they they do take take too long and again gave them reason why they need to go back to the app and actually submit that request and again you can see here it's following the same model of just one go get to the use get user to come either first request one desired outcome improved their reference check process and one single call to action that gets people back to the other so that's about the energy male the next one is the upgrade email and interesting things here is that most companies once asked companies based on my experience send that email when users share reach the tragedy the end of their trial but the thing here is that these emails work really well with activated trials so when when app when a person has completed one two or maybe all of your critical actions in your onboarding process there's no reason not to send them an upgrade email and it works the other way around for someone that hasn't activated any features in Europe hasn't reached any value moments Europe there is no reason to send them on a great email it's just like asking a stranger in the street to marry oh it would be just very awkward maybe I'm knowing for them so again the upgrade email assuming you want to send to activated trials and you can see a brilliant example here from adapter and what they do here is they emphasize what the user will miss out but by not upgrading they quantifies the value of that experience within the trial window the user has automated 63 3 tasks and they are also giving you a little bit more information about the premium plans and you can also see there's a single call to action and they've also made it very relevant for us by offering at the most appropriate time in that case the basic plan and again you want to contrast the outcomes of graining versus no degrading you want a picture how this app has improved their up already and how it how it will look without the app so in that case I've already automated so many tasks and buy another grading that means that I not automated those haters right this is how they can't consciously outcome of upgrading which is not upgrading the next email which we want to send to all these people that have haven't done anything in our up if we don't know we don't want to send on upgrading no again and in case what instead what you want to do it start a conversation with those people so you want to give them an opportunity to try to try out a little bit longer you want to engage with them this will give you an opportunity not only to qualify them so see if they're an extra lead for you by engaging in a personal conversation with them but also an opportunity for them to help them experience evaluating a trial window and this is a great example from from slope it's a very simple email that offers you to extend the trial of the user by just with time to this email and the important thing here is that when you send and when you send on born in US and when it comes specifically to the upgrade and extension email again you really want to segment the active users from the passage and this is how a flow here would look in in charge where the user is signed up and we've segmented the different type of users different passive users and we send the upgrade emails to the active users and then we send the trial extension email to the passive users so this is as far okay I have actually couple more right I do have a couple more so the transpiration email transpiration email is something you want to send at the end of our trial and the go of the trial exploration exploration email is really not to educate users to to help them experience by or anything like that it really did the last you know the last hit if onboarding was the boxing match then that's the last like you know the last kids in the body the match so too do here is handle any remaining objections so whether that price quiz quality trust no urgency you want to handle these objections in that email and for the engage users you want to provide pricing details and upgrade instructions especially if your product has a complex meters meters structure or anything anything difficult to understand make a surprising another important thing here is to against give users options so if your if you have a premium product you might want to give them an option to downgrade if they're not ready to upgrade it yet or give them an extension option is they're not rated upgraded and you can see here the example with with Basecamp they've given the options prefer to cancel instead or you notations out downgrade me they've also handled some of the objections like how long would take upgrading it will take just a few minutes so I already know that's going to be an easy process it different for me that everything that created so far email account is still safe and sound it's another of the objections that they face computers probably head and so on and the last email that he want to give you an example is the post expiration feedback email and this is simply you want to send three to seven days or maybe fourteen days after after trial expiration to all the users that have an upgraded and the goal this email is to figure out why people are not upgrading and you can use that data throughout your whole email envoy in communication from the very first welcome email until your great email where you can do objections into the best way with your fans to exit to the post expiration feedback email is not to send the link to external survey but to the something else instead what do you want to do is give them options so give them links in the index email and ask them to answer by clicking on the single most relevant answer for and a platform like in charge would record this click and you can go back to the platform and see how many people have you know clicked on a specific answer and this approach actually you know brings much higher response rate than getting people to open you know a browser window go to you know type form of Google form enter their name entered a Tarina email and so on and so on because it's so frictionless I mean all they need to do is just click on the link and the answer will be recorded so you can take like the three to five most common objections if you have any data or whatever you think whatever your good feeling cells about you know what people are not converting and you can include them in our post expiration feedback email and collect that data so these are the doll I gave those examples and maybe so far do you have any questions guys so maybe I should continue going with the presentation because the next piece is to actually show you how to set up the email I have a question very quickly return just looking at email it gets boring so for a couple of emails one one question that I have is like you have long form email and you have short form email and the reward email very long it's too boring for me like I don't even want to read the entire thing so what's your suggestion about short versus long form emails when you sending these onboarding emails right well I mean it really depends on your audience I've seen examples of long for emails and short for emails I wouldn't say long for email doesn't work my general advice is keep it short but sometimes I mean if there's a good story if the email is interesting his email it's funny they're like Daniel Casey means totally fine to to to go with long or for people that is just taking there you know emails for the first time just keep it short and then keep it simple and the second question is like template versus no template so I usually like so when I send and when I get an email I use it like when it's coming from a normal human being then coming from a template and I'm sure many people have this question as well but like should you use template or should you use a standard email and like what's the suggestion there their eyes right well honestly I don't know the answer I don't think there's one single best answer again it really depends on your audience I've seen people like if you look at apps like envision or I don't know anything from Adobe so absolute visual people ask for people that have some expectations from your app to be visual and then a plain text email would probably look like like something's wrong with that email for those people maybe for sales people maybe for I don't know like such people made it plain text works better so assuming you got a test you can save the data just enough you know enough trials to test that then go ahead and test it out now there's another consideration series when it comes to deliverability and obviously plaintext emails are way better for for that fewer images fewer links especially the first email just gets much higher chance to auto to learn in the inbox I'm not in spamming promotion so personally I'm I'm a big fan of plain text emails but again it depends on on your on your audience and if you looked up like with you for example or envision or I don't know headspace the illustrations there is what really makes the email great and so I think they've done a great job in that case got it but as we can we can move forward I think nobody has questions so far right ocean alright so where was it present vo present right right so I mean all these emails are great but how how do you how do you set it opinion here with your product how why do you bother the actual steps to a GDQ these emails so I've brought him down the process into three main that the first one is for you to figure out whether the activities the critical activities that you want a truck that you want to send emails wait and don't start with with five ten hundred just start with the three main ones and these are activities that every single customer has completed within their trial window in the past so if you already have any data you can look at your database you can or if you're more sophisticated than you something like Mixpanel you can see whether the patterns there whether these activities these actions that every single customer has completed so these are the things that you want to push people to do in order for them to reach their Hamel and experience butter or whatever and once you know these three three actions what you want to do is create an event tracking plan so it's something that is sent to your developers you can use segments calm or they can integrate that directly with marketing automation tool so you go to developers and you say this is the pre action that I want to track users with reactions that I want to use inner in charge or marketing automation tool and I want to send emails with those action so could you please integrate that with segments or or you can look at the API of the marketing automation tool then your Dino developers go back to integrating that it might take a couple days or a couple weeks from developers find is very hard to find time for mark in development so you gotta be you know just just be a little bit pushy with them and just for work relentlessly until they integrate those events and the third step is to finally have these and integrated with segments calm and by the way segment on for me data fighting to that sense events and user actions from your app from your product to multiple different marketing apps so that could be in charge or another marketing automation tool or something else so once you have the integrated Daniel Warner marketing automation flow in your to to of choice and now we'll show you here our marketing automation flow works in in our platform in in charge which is a visual drag-and-drop platform so everything is visual when you drag it and I've already created this float here for very mark so I can give you an example and by the way it works is you have triggers and you have factions so triggers are things that start flow and you want to initiate flow with these events that you've mapped on the previous step so something like signed up when when user signs up this is the event the name of the event to have a trigger signed up you want to send a welcome email and these are examples from that we already covered in the previous slide and so this is a trigger and then this is the action and what I did here with with that flow without behavior based flow if once it had a welcome email then I check if people have completed the next critical action so in the case of very mark so there are four months I don't know somehow that it's too pixelated either you think these of zum-zum it a little bit so that we can see that I'm sure like the people see you don't know can you feel can you feel better now yeah she better is it better tap it down maybe in the chat if you can see okay for example has a tag something is unclear for me but maybe it's my screen alright cool so maybe I can't enter yeah alright so what I was saying how you go through first one is always giving kind of the second thing one it would send the request in the thirteenth means yeah you want people to complete the request so our experiment what i'm doing here is i'm using this back to actually take people completed not specific action and this is what I do so I take it because users consent of course require and if the heavens and out request what I'm what I'm doing isn't aiming a push email I'm doing us any good nurture or push email one of the emails are covered on the previous life and trying to get people next to the application taking easier a non-citizen complete your course project I just wanted to share a few reasons why our life and then I guess I'm like to complete the ledge but if they had already completed a patient I'm not going to end up you know but you know would be irrelevant so what I'm doing is them continuing the flow and I'm taking for the next critical action which is request for agreement and I'm using fax to see they completed a legend and again if they haven't completed our patient I'm going to send another email another first email but if they completed a fiction then I'm going to send them right away your grade email so I'm not waiting seven days will then complete the hope all right so easier I'm just saying the welcome melt and waiting one day and then I'm starting to check the different critical action and if they completed all the action so if this extracts and requests and they steps Act requests for experiment I these are people that have completed this critical value moment you know who my onboarding process so it's totally fine and in the great email and asked them to purchase the software and conversely if the heaven complete dissociation I'm ending them the new Gmail so this is just a very simple variable onboarding product is made between like 10 charts and that's pretty much what everything I had for today and there's also free resource it I'm not only going to share those in yes or I should leave it here but that's more or less for me guys and if you have any questions we don't hesitate to fly so that everybody gets it give me a minute right yeah thanks for the the everybody has a presentation they can just download it and then there is a link there so you can also try it out the screen thank you for this this was really useful because I've been you if you want the idea I also learned a little bit like for example why should we wait like three days to actually or seven days of poutine days to actually ask for an upgrade that was one learning for me the other learning that was there for me was like like when you send a trial expiration email you should send like social and stuff objection that somebody had learning I've seen is there you know when somebody like you were breaking up and this is the last email you can actually put those links there so you can actually analyze what users are doing these were like three key learning right so thanks for that in on I I do have couple of questions so they're like I don't know other people are asking or not feel free to ask in the chat but I do that question the thing I've been really looking forward to it and what do you think about somebody who has a 30-day free trial and and how should they do it and somebody who has a freemium platform because in freemium there's no oil exploration so I'm really really looking for like how did we deal with these two kind of user on right right so we with the 30-day trial that that's actually the the whole brilliance of action based emails is that you I mean the emails are sent in pace with the customer journey so whether you have seven day or fourteen or thirty days the emails will be sent like the resource mail via great email all these emails will be sent at the right time so there is just any difference there when it comes to the 30-day trial now with premium things are a little bit different because you don't have that time window where people need to upgrade we dealt with it within within that time window so while I encourage people with premium to do is be very aggressive and and and start sending this call to action emails towards the beginning I mean there is no reason for people to to wait like I don't know like 30 60 whatever how many days and because you really want to create that urgency you want to create that artificial push for people to really convert their since there is no trial window and usually the point of the whole point of the trial window is to create the word divergent and when you don't have it then you need to create it in other ways and the one of the ways is to send you know your great emails and just get people to upgrade sooner okay but like I mean the answer is actually click I just want to know if that an example of any SAS application that does that really well yeah absolutely you can see mind Meister and what they do is for example when you click on a premium feature the application manager I'll send the link in the chat box so these guys are premium and what they've done is they when you when you open a premium feature in their app they'll show you a pop-up that will ask you to upgrade and they text when you open that window and 20 minutes later they send you an upgrade email so they send you an email like all right so I see that you just open that this premium feature you're interested in the premium feature why not upgrade now so and actually if I'm able to find that email it's it's a great example so I can look for that email while people are asking other questions but that's one great example how tragic is premium yeah somebody in the in the David has been asking the question like how do you differentiate in 30 days were supporting this the right way like what do you think is the right way to do two different kinds of trial Inc I'll be your bright bright so when it comes to trial period there was a study that I think last year was shared honest after and while they proved is that there is no difference in providing longer trial window so you could easily go with 14 days there are no added benefits to offering a longer trial period so 7 to 14 days is my perfect sweet spot I wouldn't go with something like 3 days because you might just people would drop off at the beginning you know some people would perceive it as just too little too short for them to be able to you know it on board a not sign up at all so you want to find that sweet spot but yeah fourteen thousand eight but that so so something like it is a paladin even for I think you guys also it takes a very long time to actually see the value inside the application right so sometimes it tastes like more boring days right we do we do so at a 14th day we don't say hey pain now what we do is like we sit around like for example hey good you packed an extension and give them back right so that's one thing we do but like take longer time with some application and then for those application usually recommend that it has to be premium I mean not everybody for freemium way of doing it but like for fetal if thirty days are enough for somebody to see the back you that's a question and I mean that's that's answer too much but I would do I'm just like give them an extension and then and then see if they have done enough to actually ask them to an upgrade yeah absolutely just want to talk something else to that question there was another study by Matt kudu that actually showed that 50% of trials convert after the trial window so people don't really care about how long your trolley there was converted their own pace so again it's really you gotta see as you say if they haven't achieved any value if they haven't completed anything in within that window then you ask them give them an expansion try to get in touch with them you know start a conversation so again the trial window is something we created officially as marketers just to push people that are more engaged more active to convert within that window but it's unrealistic especially for complex apps as user pilot is in charge for people to convert we didn't 7 or 14 day hmm talking about trial and value well just gonna send one quick way to actually make people we have an extra men are on specially on the value part and so please do join understand I share the link with you guys give me a minute so it's value amplifier David this is for you because what we feel is that if in 30 days somebody has not been able to find the value inside the application means that I you've not been able to show the value in those 30 days um so maybe this webinar might help you there's one more question that is Tampa that is asked by Florian whether he says how do you get the trigger from your SAS system in your CRM I mean it's a good question I mean I have an answer fine go ahead please so what was the question can I hear em WOM right system into your CRM right so one way is segment command I already mentioned that in the presentation it's data pipe into one once you integrate your triggers from your staff you can send them to the club sports the pipe drive whatever you use here and most most most theorems do have integration with with segment calm so again that segment calm it's your integrate ones and then you're able to send data to other tools that's probably the easiest that's something that's probably what I would use but if you know he is always called the other way around where your developers integrate with the specific CRM yeah what do you think about today's is one question by audio question holding a sensor couldn't type it I'll just listen to it until you can answer question what what what do you think about application other than segments like you can you ask you developer to do it so yeah you can you can you mean can you ask your developers to integrate with the serum most most most big theorem support some kind of API that you can send triggers to them the reason I wouldn't go that way is because every single time you add a new marketing or sales to or switch tool you need to get your developers to integrate and if there's one thing I learned that the market area is that developers could be a huge bottleneck because there really is very hard for them to find time for March in development so just just go through the whole process once we segment and then you have the events there you as a marketer can use them wherever you want otherwise it might be very painful for you two to get developers to integrate every single time so we have one question from Kimball is audio so I can just turn on the audio and you can your body says he's holding a sample she identified when you see or identify these faces like is there a framework you have to use to identify a frame work about stages should I in what points in time nice and easy emails or words so much to plan from citizens yeah so he's asking like how to identify events and how to twenty five the cadence the time difference how long should you send it and without any five which emails n which he means not to Sam so you talked about it a little bit just for the square an answer it's over right oh yeah Oh depends the way to identify events would be different for every single app so full turnkey solutions for small apps or small chrome extension stuff like that would be you know like you have these like two or three things that people need to use now it gets a little bit more difficult to when we talk about something more complex like let's say hot jars so they have like ten different products it's a whole suite of tools so you don't know exactly which ones you want to get people to do and this is there's no like easy answer here the answer would be go to there will be three ways to approach this so first in the signup process you can you can ask people while they're looking to to use your tool for so are they using the tool for the heat map or the life station recording and when when when they answer that then you can you know these are right there using the tool for cheese half so this is that I need to send this is the critical value actions for them would be related to heat maps or is it using the tool for life stations and I will be sending emails for life stations so that's one way another way is to go back to your database so the other way would be to go to your database and see look at your best customer so look at your customer base and see whether the actions they've completed so if you have the data that would work only to get the data and you see if you if you identify any patterns there yeah I would also do the same I would actually other than asking what they're looking for I would suggest like look at the usage and what are the features and people who are converting why are they converting like and what are the feature they are using why they love the product you will know exactly what are the key features that people get very quickly so that you can just push for the feature then obviously I don't think cadence matter it could be two days or three days and I don't think Kayden's Act actually matter what manager that you send me the right message to the right person to the right time and the time only happened when they did something inside the application so that they came back you can connect them back and bring them back to the application because you need to keep victimize them because as humans you forget about doing something and yeah so that's my opinion but don't ask keep on yapping and I can scout and I can out is a design resource marketplace it's a premium platform where should be an ideal email sequence to convert the user in to promote subscribe that's that's a great question I wish you I mean I wouldn't really need to look at the the platform and probably won't be able to give you good answer without but we can definitely connect after the co and I can look at the platform and give you some tips it does make sense yeah so that's that's basically about it I don't have any more questions so if somebody has any questions please feel to ask the chat is open if not you can connect Carlo Carlo can you write down your name in the chat so the apps you absolute or your email addresses yeah right my email address and you can always connect with me there we do have a lot of stuff companies and we offer like we do like three onboarding email reviews so we can jump on a call 15-20 minutes however long it takes just look at your emails and here cute guys with with your emails and see what you're currently standing give you any tips on your current email suggest me now so on you know must come thank you for coming here and giving your knowledge you get it not my pleasure mmm yeah hopefully happy but I got chest man right take care guys bye yeah bye everybody