Empower Your Engineering Sales Team with Outbound Sales Automation for Engineering

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since AI came into the picture in 2022 it's never been easier to send emails at scale but have you been getting more customer meetings quite the opposite tracking open rates are no longer reliable you've likely been getting fewer replies from prospects while more and more of your emails are now Landing in spam that's because email servers like Google and Yahoo started shutting down spammers to protect users from being scammed as they should but where does that leave us as sales and marketing teams well personalization matters now more than ever to hit your quota and you need to figure out some way to do s at scale hi I'm Victor a full cycle account executive turn sales manager with 10 years of B2B sales experience and on this channel I cover topics from prospecting to closing and everything in between today I'm joined by Bria from grow today to discuss when you should and should not automate outbound lots of tips so you can build more Pipeline and crush your quota let's do this hi Brig thanks for joining today's session I wanted to set the stage by telling the audience what we are and are not going to be covering in this session so specifically we're not going to cover what mistakes to avoid when doing bound outbound like lack of personalization wrong positioning we're going to take it for granted that our audience already knows this and instead uh we're only going to cover when to automate outbound and when should outbound be left uh to a manual touch a manual touch so also we will not be discussing positioning and we will take for granted that our total addressable Market or every ICP customer uh that we want to or ICP account that we want to Target is already in our CRM or we know who they are and from now we're only going to be talking about should we automate outbound should we do it fully manually is there an in between let's find out thanks Victor for setting the stage up and I think what you also mentioned uh including the Tam and why we take it granted uh I think a great question is that what we should not maybe take granted right now that us we should also take into consideration and when we talk about my had one my first question that really came into my mind as we know in this ecosystem there are a lot of things are changing so what do you think what is the really main goal of the good outbound strategy today and is it really just you know just a book meting or there is more to it right so uh that's a good question actually because what most salese do right is uh think that the goal of outbound is to book a meeting and yes that is the ultimate goal we want to book a meeting that turns into pipeline that we can close and and uh and hit our Target so we earn commission but if we uh take that approach as our goal um we end up making mistakes like uh including our booking link as the call to action in our in our uh email template so instead I usually Advocate uh to go into an albow Motion in uh with this in mind I want to start a com conversation and if we do that um instead of trying to book a meeting we'll likely uh write sequences and templates that are more customer facing and and with higher probabil higher probability get responses so one thing uh on that topic actually one thing I was wondering is uh how has Ai and AI is a Hot Topic right so how has AI uh changed the way that you specifically do outbound as a growth professional and what should and should not AI be used for in your opinion yeah it's a great question um and I think when we talk about AI I think there are lot of things are going on in the ecosystem by like if you just thinking about generally like the role of AI I think right now you can use AI to take the Clause you can use AI to do some automated SDR or AI ASD a stuff you can also use AI to write more personalized email less personalized emails as well and basically anything so all era basically can use AI to do so but I think how it really changed the word and how we are using it is basically what are the kinds of parts that is really time consuming for me and maybe there is a better way to do it or maybe there is a faster way that AI can help me more effective and when it comes to when it's used and not to use I think it's a great question because what I'm seeing is that there are lot of way too many people fall into the Trap that okay right now here is AI regardless if CHP or third party tool and they use AI to write the entire sequence slash the the email and how I think teams should be thinking about the use of AI is just like a enabler meaning that okay maybe some parts of the email can be written by AI but maybe not the entire should be because then you are just going to be less human and I think the really key Focus here is that how you can also use AI or technology to really stand out in the crowd because the market is sated we know that we have less uh team members in sales marketing we know that we also have less budget generally and now there are a lot of AI tools that really make outbound harder to stand out so what I also think about the role of AI should be is that how you can also use it to be more relevant not explicitly think about personalization but how you can use it to be more relevant and I think one great thing that we that we should also think into consideration is what's how how has AI changed uh the way that Sal people work today and their efficiency so Victor do you do you see that AI drastically changed it or is still like ongoing and if so like how how how it changed the world the sales people work today really nice transition there um so this is a good topic and just yesterday uh today is October 4th we're recording then so October 3rd uh Google actually uh released um a statement for how they're doubling down on spamming efforts starting February 2024 and why they why they did that has in part to do with AI changing the game for uh salespeople since the past year because what happened when AI got introduced it became super easy to write emails at scale and even though you know you set up some parameters to try to personalize it to the persona it's not really doing the trick you can't really use AI for for Creative work um or at least in in my opinion and I'll be interested to see what you think later but because it's become super easy to send high volume um and let's say customized but not in a human way uh we've seen that uh response rates have gotten lower and even when you do get a response BS um uh Prospect or if you're sending it to a customer they might tell you that hey I found your email but it landed in spam so go check out what might be the issue and uh yeah so primarily how I see AI has changed the game is it's become super easy to send outbound not saying it's quality outbound but it has made it easy so it's becoming harder and order to um to build pipeline from cold mail alone so there will be other ways that that sales reps now need to take to um to actually build pipeline yeah and on that part like you mention Google and I think it's a great thing to stay up to date with this news uh just for the future and just because January February is also quickly approaching but what are the kind of emerging Trends SL techniques that you think that Revenue teams can use today to improve either the Del liberity or response rat or do race right so ideally you ideally salespop NE never just stick to a single Channel like cold email or email alone uh when trying to build pipeline uh because you can build pipeline from Live Events from cold calls cold emails social selling and ideally you should be doing all of these so for salespeople who haven't already used this Omni Channel or multi-channel approach to building pipeline uh they need to um move away from using a cold email alone and go in more heavy on on cold calling social selling because those social touches those uh cold calls are Parts where AI has or is currently at the time of this recording isn't dominating those fields so it's still um easy to show that yes the effort that I'm taking to contact you right now is still a manual or human effort and it's not a robot uh or AI automating messages that are being sent to you uh so the short answer is incorporate not just cold email but social selling uh cold calling and also Live Events when you're trying to build pipeline from your list of total uh from from your list of ICP accounts I think that would be the um uh my short answer um however I can also say that I don't think that outbound is the same for all the accounts that we're going to reach out to and my question to you Brig is uh how do you think sales outbound strategy should be different when we're talking about SMB commercial midmarket or Enterprise um segment clients yeah I think it's a great question because you exactly answered uh how should we really think about outbound and generally generally speaking like an H channl so I don't think that there is a answer that hey here is how you how here's how to use AI tool for everything when it comes to Mid Market because those motions are totally different and the way a team internally should operate when it comes to marketing and sales and then the tooling side as well so when it comes to SMB and midm Market uh what I see from grow side is that uh if you are if you have an ICP that is strictly SMB or mid Market uh then you have to think about okay what is the kind of ACV and sales Cycles because when it comes to SMB the really high time and low ACV uh and if you have a clear Persona then I think growth and those kind of more programmatic approaches and more automated efforts well needs to be there and the reason just why is because simply from uni perspective you definitely don't want a bdr or experienced sales person to you know Chase accounts who you expect to three or 5,000 ACV because then from un ecomics wise it's just really hard to you know be really positive in that yeah and also one thing here is is just the kind of low stage awareness that for example uh as the company as the grow um uh you might want to send more like I would not say generic messages tailored messages but more like based on triggers or certain kind of uh signals uh to kind of warm up the prospects like 50 years ago ads were also very creepy and we said that okay hey bu an ad you know knows a lot of things about myself but right now if you think about from go perspective and in the case ofb at Mid Market it's the same with happening in outbound side as well that you need you can also use other channels to war up the prospect so if the goal is right and the ACV and you have a clear person and a really big tab that you by the way would not be able to prospect just with sales because it would be too much uh it would require too much band then it's really makes sense to use more automation uh because just from outbound strategies perspective just different when it comes to S&B midmarket and Enterprise right so there were two specific points that I loved about what you just said number one is uh that for for Roi purposes alone it there will be a segment that that just doesn't um where it doesn't make sense to involve salespeople because the effort that it takes to actually you know book that first meeting with the account uh it there's not going to be a payoff the company's not going to reach their revenue goals right and the second part is uh the splitting of the funnel to top of funnel middle of funnel bottom of funnel and the at the top when you're specifically talking about low stage of awareness um buyers or or Target customers it it takes way more effort to convert those type of uh Target prospects into a meeting than it does like a later stage when someone's already problem aware or maybe even solution aware uh and I guess that's a question uh for another topic on when this uh Handover should happen between uh growth and sales but I love that you mentioned it nonetheless I'm thinking uh do you have like an example of the top of your head for companies that you worked with in the past that successfully implemented this uh high volume low ACV uh or like or you know in implemented uh an outbound strategy that works for this uh low ACV high volume uh customer segment yeah I think actually there are a lot of uh companies that are doing and I really hope that more will do because as mentioned just from un economics perspective it makes sense but just to name a few for example if you think about rlink how how the gross team operates and how the bdr Sim operates or when we think about gorgeous um and segment DFT they were also thinking about serving uh some serving the low ACV Market or splitting or having two different motions to also also do that but for example gorgeous is a really great example or when we are thinking about replaying and what the gross team was built there it's really good exercise there that how you can use Automation and internal uh people who are really experienced in op groups to use AI Automation and the tool for scalability and make sure that the unique economics is there because yeah as we discussed you don't want to chase um a prospect with a expected two three five thousand ACV right right right and uh when we when we initially talked you also mentioned uh something about trigger based or intent based outbound so when you talk about intent based outbound what do you actually mean specifically yeah I have two great answers on that when we think about the low value high volume uh sending I think uh you can also use these insights uh to really Define why you are outreaching those people right now right because if you think about if there's a prospect that is installing your competitor you know doing some research and you definitely see that it's happening then it's a good way to reach out to them and really like like how you think about advertising do do the same just on an outbound side uh and really uh make it very tailor that why why why right now and what and how and also from the mid Market side what I mean by triggers inside is that if you expect and you already have an operation teing space and the total add market account list is already there already in the CR and then your main job to really level up and help sales to be more effective and build a pipeline is the way to go to there is definitely to use triggers and insights that can really help and the mid Market uh uh prospects to to to know the SES okay who are the people that I'm should reaching out and then they can decide that how exactly they are reaching out it can be either templatized they can also incorporate automations but I think in that case uh the short answer and that you can use this as a kind of validation of when it's really right time to reach out to the to those because it can be a buying momentum and more major goto Market team know when it's a really good buying momentum and when it comes to the mid market then there is definitely a lot of tools like predic lades Lan scale crunch base that can help you to know really en the CRM build something great for sales team and then they just you know go into the CRM and see all of these insights all of these accounts and then they you know just take it there but they don't necessarily focus on the more TSH time of prospecting because it's hard and they should be not explicitly spending their time or researching then in mid Market they can you can basically use these insights to have have them focus on selling right and uh so there's one one thing that really uh stuck with me on what you said there because uh when we talk about outbound successful outbound to get a response what are the factors that are needed you need the message to be relevant you do that by personalizing or or customizing your message to the persona but on the other hand you also need to time that email right right and that's what you essentially highlighted or one of the many points that you just mentioned is uh enabling salespeople to reach out to the right people but also at the right time because that will increase their reply rates yeah and just talking about that how how do you think what are kind of best practices when it comes to the more midmarket or entprise what are really some of the good examples of best practice that you have seen working and it's definitely a kind of thing to do so yeah well one thing I can say is that um less automation definitely works uh the last thing you want to do is is you know spam uh a bunch of people so when we're talking about midm market and Enterprise these are typically uh thousand plus 5,000 plus 10,000 plus uh organizations and chances are that some of these people are sitting side by side or next to each other so if you uh send automated messages to everyone and these messages are the same uh number one your deliverability is going to be lower because uh the mailbox or the mail servers are identifying that you're sending a lot of uh messages to the same accounts and all of these messages are the same so it could be spam or fishing attempt so you're going to get shut down but also like imagine two colleagues sitting next to each other and like were you also contacted by this a guy or girl uh with the same message yeah I was and then you're not going to get a response so instead uh I really like again uh when you mentioned trigger based or Insight uh insights based uh outbound approach if you can uh in general show to people that they're better off with you than without you uh when you know trying to solve a complex topic uh that's definitely the way to go uh this educational route is definitely the way to go when we're talking about out bounding into midmarket and Enterprise but you also have to realize that it's going to take a lot of effort so typically for these uh for these accounts you have um Business Development reps and account Executives working side by side uh sometime sometimes even sales Engineers um all doing the role of account research and uh and crafting messages that are very specific to that account imagine if you're reaching out to let's say a banking uh banking client uh something changes in the industry um that could qualify as a trigger event and your solution solves a problem for them um you would reach out to multiple people and there are it could be you know up to a 100 people easily who you could Target um what worked for us in in my past company is account Executives would Target the higher level uh or or mid-level managers i' say while uh which are like highly targeted maybe even ask for introdu C from your uh OWN Network to get into an account while Business Development reps would focus on the um floor level employees uh within the domain that you're targeting and do more of the volume that frees up time for account executive to have more uh qualification and Discovery calls to learn more about the account so it's definitely uh High touch but also highly personalized way of doing outbound and there's no right wrong way to do this um but since we also talked about Ai and what can be automated um what we didn't have like two years ago for instance AI uh we imagine like going into Enterprise having to find a trigger how do you do that you would download the company's 10K report and then skim it for the keywords that are relevant to your company and if you found something that you can latch on to you would embed that in your message in your template if imagine using Chad GPT or really any other AI tool to skim that 100 150 page 10K report for specifically the keywords and in summarizing that report for how you can use that uh those insights in that 10K report to reach out at scale to personas within that specific account that's a huge productivity increase so that's something where which I think the the account list building just like isn't that labor intensive but the research huge burden takes a bunch of time and like if you have like a six to 12 month sales cycle right it's your chances of of uh booking meetings and closing these deals uh is low if you're doing everything manually now with AI um helping us out it could be used effectively to do that research for us automate that part and leave the creat work manual I think that's the way to go for midmarket and Enterprise um and I think that's a good segue into my next question which is when should and should not uh outbound be automated what are what is your take on this yeah so just in a kind of short to is definitely if you have a high total market and a low ACV and you have a clear Persona uh and antire kind of uh buyer journey is not so complicated meaning that you know how to reach out D this person as what messaging then it's really good to automate so mostly on the SMB and the smaller midmarket side low icv K person and high time and one kind of f also Tak that came into mind mind where we were discussing Enterprise motions and when to automate is that how do you think about that do you think that the Sal cycle impact uh this decision when to automate or not to automate and if so how MH um just of the top of my head I I have one example that comes to mind it's it's smv not really automation for uh for Enterprise maybe I'll I'll have something for that as well but let's say you there was a handoff between sales and marketing because the a ACV is still low but it's big enough to Warrant A salesperson getting involved and let's say it's a 5k account five four or five Cas let's say your minimum for involving sales and in that case the compan the prospect is running a free trial right um is it going to be worth your time to follow up with that person and you know this person might be dodging your emails as well probably not so what I did was for these uh very low uh high volume low uh Roi accounts I just had a very simple uh um trial automation sequence which whenever I I start a free trial for someone I who was low value I would sequence them and all that did was really just automate the messages that I would be sending anyway messages like hey how's it how's it s how's the trial going uh need any help or you know if I see that uh they were running out of of credits and didn't respond like would uh another like a trial extension of two days help you to finish the trial and get the impact that you're looking for that sort of stuff so messages that I would send anyway uh and that relates to the POC stage but for other parts of the account I don't see how I would automate it I would automate steps that I take or or certain task but not necessarily the messaging that I send outbound or PC is a good example yeah and for example follow up and bump bump impul and generally just the role of automation uh and when we are back to again this I'm pretty sure that you probably got a lot of many connection request that you know kind of almost immediately you get to kind of P hey we do this XYZ we can have XYZ so kind of what are the kind of best practices in case of social selling to avoid sounding spammy or being spammy right um great that you you referred to our previous convers conversation because I did mention that bump emails uh for those who don't know bump email is basically sending like a oneliner that bumps your initial email to the top of the inbox uh without taking away Merit from the the relevance of of that first email and typically that's a step that can be automated even when it comes to Mid market and Enterprise another thing that could be automated using tools let's say like uh hey which is a LinkedIn automation tool that like let's say you have a list of 100 or 200 uh prospects that you're going to reach out to them you know in a second or third step of that outbound sequence anyway and you're GNA send a a connection request that's then typically a task that you could automate now there are ways that you can still sound spammy um like you know when you're pitching in the connection request so don't do that or uh pitching five minutes after someone accepts your connection request so th those are the things that even you're though you're using automation you should avoid but there are two good ways that let's say you can uh use or three ways you can use social selling to to increase your efforts number one just you know liking someone's post making sure that you pop up in their notification feed now they're familiar with your profile pick your name your company what you do and that makes it much more likely that they're going to respond to your emails when you do pop up in their inbox and when you're sending connection requests you can send just a blank request typically good for uh people who are trying to grow Their audience anyway and uh send like a personal touch to someone who might not accept all uh and every one of the connection requests that they do send like what is like a oneliner that you can write to show that you did your research on them and it would be cool to connect I think uh that's one way to avoid sounding spammy when it comes to uh social selling and something that also improves your uh your reply rates but I mentioned hey reach qu curious to see if you uh also have like some tools that you Advocate using whe whether we're talking about um Outreach for sales reps or specifically specifically founder L sales yeah great question I think when it comes to founder L SS and when we think about automation I think one way is that if it's already found assess and definitely product Market Fe are just even you know in a building phase I think the focus should be the kind of BDA meaning that you ask for product feedback and you just kind of using the messages to validate the need and just to more like challenge based but to GA feedback as for feedback and not you know not really pitch and SS because still I still get a lot of messages in a lot of s that are still very just you know pachy very s and I think when you are founder espeically is the worst thing to do and because you are also a little bit you know unknown and small and not yet not yet a kind of you don't have that kind of brand I think for founder says the goal should be to build relationships and how you build relationship is definitely uh definitely as for product feedback and not not sales because it will come later if you are interested if you are interesting for them it will it will come later and uh and I think uh that's that's the way to go and for other side that when they are kind of there is a transition between found LSS and cells or or sales SL regardless if it's SP product product Le motion or less product Le motion I think the kind of good tools that can give lot of H is definitely the intent or insights related tools like uh from anything from the G2 reviews to predic scale pred leads long scale basically anything that you can give you insights when it's right time when it's really right time to to reach out to the people uh and then the messaging is the other part that okay should you do do you do this for relationship building or you do this for product building it's just a kind of it just really depends on the stage where the companies um and just to tie this into the the topic of today's discussion uh relationship building it's not something that you can automate right or not in my experience so yeah uh when when you mentioned that specific exercise of Founders reaching out to their target group asking for feedback uh typically what I do you think it helps if they also like give something off a value like hey uh I can give you like a week weekl long trial like we're trying to validate this challenge for this these type of people happy to give you like a two- week free trial if uh if you're open to feedback would would you be open to like a back and forth um you know um experience sharing is like that something that you would Advocate I my hand has really highest question answer on this this is it really depends if the the product uh meaning the challenge is relevant for me yes and also depending on how busy I am uh sometimes I just ask hey I'm not going to you know go into trial just because let's you know sometimes iest okay just what if if you just send the video of why uh because then if I go to trial maybe you know it's just like okay I don't want to really bother about it and especially the higher people we are talking the less uh they would like to you actually something they will just for word or delegate so it it also depends on that but I think uh providing a value even if it's not a trial but just generally anything else that you know maybe a kind of an influencer post that is relevant to that person I think can also be a good way to start building relationship because anybody like and if you try to help somebody then it's a really good way to build a relationship and maybe the trial also comes later or maybe that person will ask that okay yeah yeah and then he will bring this question also yeah you make a a really good point there um so one one thing that I just uh noticed is that so far we've been talking about all the ways that we can use Automation in outbound in a good way and when we you know should use the the human touch but typically people say that it's easier to avoid pitfalls than it is to do everything right so here's an interesting one you know how sales and marketing teams point the finger at each other all the time um in your experience who should own what part of Outreach uh or outbound specifically and and more specifically when it comes to automation since that's today's topic yeah I think uh just I think the high level kind of describe it but as a kind of recap is like if it's product like motion then it's basically will be really kind of automated uh and then I think the growth and the produ is uh the right people who should own that part and when it comes to more like product L selling or more like marketing less somewhere before transitioning into the fully Enterprise I think it's growth again but with a really strong involvement uh with the sales just because I think when the deal uh when the targeting reaches certain kind of Engagement or the account is really interesting then you might want to remove less automation part such as low value high value account low value can be mostly are fully automated Highway you let's use the bdrs to really to you know do more with the people you have and you can also do this different like okay if there is really account that is really wants to talk to us or maybe it reached a certain kind of account score then maybe you also want to channel into into on the sales team because there must be something why it's happening with the account versus when it comes to sales that it's definitely ABM and the Handover to St us uh and the stage of the awareness and the lead score if it's really high enough right I love how you you default it to the the um what's it called the the channel strategy basically is it product Le is it sales Le growth is it um uh is it marketing Le growth uh product let sales maybe so uh that's that's a an insightful uh way to think about it yeah and curious to see for example from your experience like okay this is one way yeah the kind of go to market motion but if we remove the go to market motion from this model what's also one or two things that you can do to align these teams together your experience because yeah marketings as you mentioned will also kind of point out and we know we have a specific go to market motion but what else we can do to align the two things well one thing that worked for us in the past is is putting in place Rules of Engagement it's basically just internal slas and defining who does what by when at each part of the buying Journey which you know starts at starts at no awareness all the way until we're expanding the account who owns what by when and we can talk about departments we can talk about people and and how fast they respond you know like one specific thing that that marketers call out is hey I sent you an mql and you haven't picked it up within two hours or within 24 hours even uh so having these uh these strict or some level of strict rules uh in place internally I think if nothing else then it does remove uh internal conflict which is already better than pointing finger at each other right yeah and can you share us some other maybe real examples of challenges that arise or how other pits can avoid it have you seen something as like Asal or anything El that maybe we should also take into consideration when it comes to how marketing and sales work together slas are one thing and then uh making sure that we're like all as a go go to market team we're working on the same things or and or building on top of uh each other's efforts instead of working in different silos so one thing that worked for us is putting in place monthly territory team sync meetings these territory team meetings would uh like we had a separate one for EMA and separate one for the American Market um and typically we involved uh the sales team bizdev and AES we had the marketing team content product marketing um growth marketing and the customer success team because everyone's working on something marketing is building top of funnel sales is building top of funnel but also bottom of a closing bottom of funnel and then customer successes is uh growing these accounts but which accounts are we actually targeting are marketing warming up the accounts that the Enterprise sales reps want to outbound as well so we're actually using an account based marketing strategy and these territory team meetings made sure that uh we are targeting the same accounts we are all respon we all know what we're responsible for um that in turn will result in US reaching our Revenue goals as as a region uh so I think if I had to pick just one real life example it would be that put in place monthly territory team meetings so that everyone knows what the other Silo well it won't be a silo after that right so what each team is working on uh is transparent for everyone and let's say if someone one Department one person within one department needs input or help support from someone at another at another department uh they could ask for that and then uh everyone gets to finish projects on time so that's something that I I always advocate for uh um so I think yeah so the three three pitfalls that we covered were um how to avoid sales and marketing uh teams pointing the finger who owns what part of the automation how do you align uh these teams and just a practical example of that uh in conclusion um to sum everything up what would you say or what advice would you give um organizations who are looking to strike the right balance between Automation and and leaving the human element in outbound yeah I think there are three main things and the conclusions uh basically what we discussed is definitely whether you automate or not always try to customize the message and make sure that it's relevant and timely so if it's computed uh because it's a SMB midmarket then computed but make sure that somebody checking you know the compu part really works so it's really rant time and tailored and I think the second part is uh use and select the outbound strateg is really ing to your goto Market motion and what's your really top number one Revenue goal so uh if you want to do like Al mid market and Enterprise or if you also want to do SMB and mid Market that's that's fine but you have to dedicate the resources there and make sure that both marketing as s us really go after the same same people and really align on that goal and it's not uh s us chase these type of accounts and a different motion and the others do differently so really use uh any kind of strategy so including outbound and use it and build it ing to your goto Market motion and the last part I think is that uh especially once you move up Market before that try to think about how technology can automate the low value task uh because if RS and sales and marketing can also focus more on the value edit task uh like enrichment and autom those messages that you would send anyway then it's really better way to do so because uh the department and sales can focus on selling and not just just you know the heavy uh heavy heavy enrichment part and and researching so really automate roll over repeat task and use and enable the teams to focus on the high value task because that will result in a higher Revenue at the end of the day which is what all companies and things want to achieve wow you really summed that up nicely uh so thanks briy for joining today's session uh really enjoyed our talk uh for viewers who would want to read more of your content and get in touch uh where can they find you yeah so just check grow today with briy and just sign up for the newsletter um and then you will see everything uh what are kind of best practices from courses and just really get into in a kind of better Revenue are and when teams can work together and Automation and everything is Right correctly so grow today uh with briy thanks briy for the viewers still listening I'll leave a link to the descri uh link to all the resources in the description below uh thanks Brig and see you around thank you Victor for having me was exciting to talk to you and discuss these topics if you enjoyed this video and are hungry for more you'll love this next one right here don't forget to like And subscribe first and then see you [Music] there