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okay so we are here to do a role play on contract negotiation so the the context for this is that I'm going to be a consultant at Stanton house and Josh is going to be a client it's going to be a purposely difficult client and he's going to throw a few objections out hey jar manager yeah he's going to be a HR manager should we just stick to Josh yeah Josh is a HR manager and we're going to say that he's a viking Cloud just because that's a chicago-based company and it's a vendor so it kind of appeals to everyone so in terms of where we are in the journey right now I have reached out to Josh he's come back to me to set up an initial meeting we've had that initial meeting I've told him about Stanton house he's hopefully kind of engaged and reasonably brought in yeah that's a good way of looking at it um but since the first meeting things were kind of going well but then it sort of petered out a little bit I've been chasing Josh the last couple of weeks I'm playing hard to get he's playing hard to get yeah absolutely I finally managed to get a meeting in with him and this is to kind of follow up on the contract um conversations hey Josh how's it going yeah good how are you yeah good thank you good how's your day going yeah it's Tuesday yes she's like a good thing or a bad thing yeah it's yeah it's all right so far Lots going on busy busy what about you uh yeah equally busy it's uh it's been a busy few weeks for us we've got a lot of stuff on which is quite a nice feeling because often as you get to the holiday period things start to slow down a little bit which we haven't experienced yet which has been nice thank you things busy if I can Cloud yeah I know I was going to say I'm not sure I'm uh experiencing the uh the Slowdown either for the uh for the holidays it's uh it's all go over here oh nice cool well look I wanted to find some time to have this follow-up conversation because I'm conscious we had a chat a couple of weeks back obviously told you a little bit about Stanton house kind of felt like there was some uh potential there that we might be able to work together I know that you guys have got a few live roles I've been kind of checking them out and definitely they look like things that we could help with so I know we touched on maybe getting terms signed so that we could kind of get something formal in place and really kick off working with you um I know since we met we've not managed to get much movement on that so I just wanted to kind of check in and hear how things are going and um yeah I guess is there anything that you'd like us to do to move this along yeah no I don't think so really I mean um you know right now we just uh you know we've already got sort of like I don't know a open roles that that may be within your remit um and you know none of them are sort of super urgent right now so I just don't think we need your help in this moment so those eight roles that you've got on you say that you have candidates for them yeah well I think the ones that have been open for you know over over a month we have you know some people that kind of look hopeful and um and uh you know the the ones that we don't have accountants for they're quite new roles and maybe they've been open for a couple of weeks okay yeah that makes sense but it's all a matter of timing isn't it like if you genuinely do have candidates for those roles and you're good to know them fair enough I mean I'm happy to stay patient with it um I would I guess I would say from my perspective there's no harm I don't think immediately showing you some of the candidates that we have so that you can have some comparisons to what you currently have even if you end up not going for the candidates that we put forward um I mean would there be any downside from your perspective to just getting at least something in place so that we can share some candidates with you even if you don't end up progressing with them I think I think it just needs to be done right and read I don't want your team to be working on this and sending candidates if we don't if we don't need them in that in that moment okay yeah understood and what are the hiring plans after this initial batch of candidates that you're looking to hire I know you guys have recently had a round of funding and I've obviously spoken to a few people in the business I know Mike and I know Bill and from what I hear there's quite a lot of um future hiring plans so it's not the case from your perspective you're obviously in charge of this stuff so yeah I think um you know their their plans next year involve ramping up quite considerably especially in in q1 so yeah there should be there should be pretty immense demand maybe maybe you know three or four times where we are at the moment so yeah maybe there's a there's more of an opportunity uh next year if you want to call me back in January okay yeah understood yeah I mean I'm happy to touch base again in January um I guess it depends on the process that we would need to go through to get contract signed um I've been doing this for a while and typically it takes a few weeks if not a couple of months to get a contract over the line like there'll be a bit of back and forth and a bit of redlining um so I just wondered again if there's any value in US getting a contract over the line now so that we're ready to go in the new year I know certainly from speaking to a couple of people in the business like some of the hiring going on next year I know there's going to be a big swing of sales Engineers for example which are some of the hardest profiles to find um like we can get talentful into that stuff now yeah but we would just want that commitment we're not necessarily expecting any Financial commitment but if we got that contract in place then we could start Talent calling for you ready for next year yeah no no I appreciate that well no you can you can send it across via email now I'll I'll have a look at it I guess okay yeah I'm happy to send that over and um I don't think we talked about this last time but just in the interest of kind of talking about it up front do you guys um have like a percentage that you tend to work to yeah so standard for us is um is you know I think we're you know we have a lot of if I'm a sort of global terms um across multiple different sort of areas then you know our average is probably I don't know 18 something like that um we're also like you know you know 90 day guarantees you know with with uh money back not not a replacement um so those are sort of the two the two big things from my perspective that you would need to align with us on okay yeah I mean I'm I'll race um the standard rates are higher than that I guess before coming why are they well we charge 35 um now that's not to say if there wasn't a guarantee of volume and we had a good working relationship and a process to follow that we were happy with that we couldn't offer some Flex on that but um yeah I guess it's difficult because I know you're not you don't urgently need us but is there any value that we could bring to you that you're maybe not getting at the moment that would make us worth paying a higher fee too it's a good question Henry um I think my biggest thing is we have you know a lot of agencies signed up and they don't work they don't work the channels properly um you know I'll find out that they're working on a job that's not being released them properly um and to be honest I'm just thinking about you know that next year and she has scrap working with a lot of those so um you know how much more is that worth you know to to do things the right way I don't know I mean I still think for a business perspective we'll struggle to you know get over 20 percent yeah okay that's that's good to know yeah I mean that that um challenge that you have with some of your existing recruitment companies that's one of the things that we hear a lot so a big part of what we believe in is partnering what you guys are doing um so it's not about replacing your efforts it's not about circumventing any processes and being difficult to work with it's much more about augmenting what you're already doing like the moment that we agree terms with one another I see it as us being on the same team like we become a we rather than you and I and that I think is where a lot of the value that we can add is yeah um and to be honest if you if you really are that um set on the fees then given that you're not um necessarily looking to hire right now we might be able to structure something so that you gave us a chance on the first thing and we did it at a lower fee because I'm that confident that we could generally add value to you longer term in a way that your other recruitment Partners come and it's a word it could be saying that right I'm sure that you have 10 people telling you that every month um but I do I do yeah exactly but I do I do genuinely believe that and I've got you know a long list of referrals and recommendations and people that would back that up if you ever wanted to take reference on us um but that'll probably be my suggestion on how to approach it like I can sense from talking to you you've got a bit of um you know baggage when it comes to working as recruitment companies as so many people like you do because there are obviously very different approaches to Recruitment and if you're sat there thinking I would love to work with a company that can actually do things differently and make my life easier and add a lot of value and find me grow Candace and do it quickly like genuinely I believe that's what we could do for you so yeah I mean all I really asked from my side is that um you know we get something in place we get a contract over the line and then from that moment we can start sending candidates if you want them if not we'll just start Talent calling for you and we'll start to think about candidates for the future um if you want to have a think about whether we could do something that's a lower fee to start with and then it goes up I'm cool with that as well I don't mind the idea of us pruding ourselves to you a bit if we need to but the thing longer term that's really important is that we have a contract in place which commercially makes sense for us so that we can prioritize you and what's the lowest that would commercially make sense for you I would be happy to do something where we started out at 25 say and then we went up to 28 after we've proven what we can do yeah I mean that is still you know 10 10 you know 10 higher than most of our other vendors and appreciate you know I've said that they're not they're not set in my world a lot but it's still 10 like you know I think if you've got a if you've got something better than that closer to where we are then you know let's talk about it but if not I think we're going to struggle to make this work okay yeah well let me ever think about it maybe I can come down a little bit on that I wouldn't be able to go to 20 if I'm being honest with you um and if it really is 20 and that's the percentage that you have to stay at then um are you doing 20 for the first couple potentially um but we'd have to see quite a big spike up for the remaining placements after that but I'd have time to think about it I'd actually think about whether that would work all right well let me know and I'll keep you posted cool yeah let me know I mean from everything I've heard like we purposely don't work with everyone in the market we just support cyber vendors so it's quite a small market and we like working with companies we feel like we've had a lot of value too and I think biking Cloud would be one so I'm super excited about this if we can just get somebody in place that works for everyone so yeah I'll come back to you with some thoughts okay and you let me know if it works but um yeah I hope we can make it work and start helping you out all right thanks Henry all right cheers Josh