Unlock the Power of Personal Contact Management Software for Legal Services

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good afternoon everyone and thank you so much for joining me today and this is one of my favorite topics to teach because I think that there is quite a big difference between what we think a CRM does and how we would use it as well as the functionality of a case management software so we're going to be diving into a few of those points today we'll also be looking at the three leading law firm CRM and marketing solutions and we'll talk about the differences between each of those and then lastly we're going to finish up with some best practices and how if you don't have a rock-solid intake team or you're looking for training to really take your marketing and potential client or lead generation management to the next level what those options are for you so today's session is being recorded we'll also have some handouts that are going to be coming out later this week one in particular is the release of our law firm marketing buyer's guide so keep an eye out for that it'll be circulated to everyone who registered for this presentation so to tell you a little bit about myself and likes tech review i founded lex tech review to be a resource for lawyer searching for case management software technology tools or practice management education we write product reviews we host webinars like the one that you have attending today thank you for making time for it as well and then we also produce our buyers guides which are made to be shoppers handbooks for those solutions that you might be looking for so to give you a little bit of background myself my name is Chelsea Lambert and I have been in the legal technology space for almost 13 years now I come to you as both a trainer but then also as a former practice management advisor for the Chicago Bar Association I'm passionate about teaching technology and practice management education because I was also the child of entrepreneurs and so very much in that environment the lines are blurred between work and home and so I've found that when we find a piece of technology or we use a new system in a law firm it can benefit the quality of life not just in the law firm but also the quality of life at home so let's go ahead and jump right in today's law firm CRM presentation is going to kick off with a diagram that I use quite often so this diagram outlines what your client lifecycle might be and this can be different for different firms and at the top we talked about or we start with client intake or lead generation may be coming from marketing sources maybe it's word-of-mouth but really how do clients first meet the firm how is there information collected and where does it go and in between client intake we also have things like conversion into from a potential new client or a lead-in to paid how is that retainer agreement or engagement agreement signed where is it located what are the case details that are collected during the consultation process then we go into delivery word processing and correspondence so where there are you or how much is required within the word processing and correspondence portion of their case and then we move into delivery or decision delivery of your delivering work product and decision if you are in a contingency based practice and then lastly is completion and referrals so how are we reaching back out to the client letting them know that their case has been completed or delivering their payment or their payment final payment to you if work product is being delivered and at what point are you asking them for referrals or possibly a review our testimonial for your website or review on up on Google or Facebook or Yelp so when looking at law firm CRM this is an area where I want to talk about the difference between case management software and a CRM it is not an apples to apples comparison so when we think of case man it is the back office system the back office tools that are going to handle the delivery of legal services they're going to manage matters they're going to store documents possibly do some document automation or document prep those are the types of features that a case management software has where as a CRM is what we'd like to call front of the house or front office and historically law firms have often looked to tools like Salesforce or Infusionsoft or custom-built applications especially if they're high-volume and we'll talk about what point it makes sense for you to invest in a CRM and also how they connect to case management software but if you're in the process and you're attending today's presentation because you are currently looking for a CRM system and by the way you're welcome to enter questions in whenever you have them involved and we'll take them at the end or if we can squeeze them in in between if you're in the process of evaluation definitely involve your staff I can't stress this enough involve your staff in the process of evaluating the software because how an intake person uses the software is going to be very different for maybe the associate who's doing the consult or handling the retainer or the back office team or support staff that's going to be hunting down documents everybody is going to use the system a little bit differently so consider the overall goals of the law firm whether you're looking at increasing your conversion rates or automating some of your your marketing or that that client engagement or if this is going to be used primarily to to aid and assist where you might not you know have the bandwidth to hire an additional person and you're looking for software to take the place of some of those tasks by automating them so first the driving reason that most firms invest in CRM technology is that every second counts when it comes to working with or converting a PNC or potential new client into a paid client every second counts people are incredibly impatient and oftentimes our most time-sensitive practice areas such as criminal defense or personal injury you can't afford to wait you can't afford for the client to you don't wait on a response back to you and and this is coming from myself as a as a legal consumer I will continue to call through law firms until I get one on the phone and that's most likely who I'm gonna do business with if I don't have a direct referral already and even if I have a referral by the way if if that firm doesn't have a system in place or I can tell that it's going to be difficult to communicate with them or there's not an automated you know response or client up online client options I will often look for another firm to work with so the automated engagement sequences tackle that problem and then tasks assigned to outsource teams is also something that you can consider so let's say that you have a CRM in place but your team is not 24 hours you're not a massive law firm that has a call center or maybe you're debating whether or not you're gonna build out your intake team or you're gonna search for an outsource option there are outsourced teams specific to law firms where you get dedicated staff members that will work those leads after hours the CRM can you can give access to the CRM to them or there can be workflow rules where tasks are assigned to a a intake or a conversion specific virtual receptionist service and we'll talk about those at the end of today's presentation for either overflow options disaster emergency situations like firms in California high-volume firms in California that were threatened by the wildfires not something that you always think about but it can happen and what if your intake team is physically not able to work what do you do with your phones how do you give people access to the CRM you're paying for marketing and you're paying for leads and you're paying for potential new clients to find you you want to have systems in place so that in the event of an emergency you can roll over to a team that's familiar with your business and aware of the regulations around legal marketing and scheduling appointments and so forth so when does it make sense to invest in a CRM and again just to clarify CRM is client relationship or customer relationship management the other tools such as you know case management or practice management software's are called practice management or case management software so this is a system that you would add to if you're using a Clio a practice Panther rocket battery Sola suite whatever you're using on the back end this is an additional tool that is separate from your practice management platform they do integrate but this is an additional expense and so when does it make sense to make that investment and this member comes from speaking to the providers and really the tipping point for them is when a law firm is receiving more than 30 leads per month or if they're receiving lasts but those cases have a high dollar value or they're in a time sensitive practice area they want something that automates they don't want to wait for a manual process to occur or a human process to occur they want that that split-second activity to be happening without them having to worry about it the desire to automate and then the appreciation for the tools so a lot of law firms are now because these solutions are available switching from an Infusionsoft a Salesforce a HubSpot or another generic tool that was not meant to service the legal market to one of the CRM or or systems that we're going to be talking about today so with more than 30 leads per month it makes sense to add that additional investment because the goal of these tools is to increase your conversion rate to engage leads that haven't retained you and to drum up additional business from your past book of clients and we're going to get into the features that help make that happen so the first is document tools a lot of these systems are integrated with East signature and document templates so you're going through the intake process you're recording um information inside a form and then with the click of a button or even if you've set up the automation it will actually generate that document from a library it'll send it out for each signature and you can go go through the process from there next your client of file sharing tools so automated file requests based on the case type drag and drop functionality which only one of the solutions that we're going to talk about today it has that but it makes a huge difference um workflows and tasks triggered with documents that are received so again we're talking about that client lifecycle and so with these tools if you remember the circle from the beginning the goal is to connect as many of those into one unified ring of productivity as possible so if from the time that you do the intake you're entering that information into an intake form it's generating the document the document is signed and it triggers a file sharing request to go out these are the types of things that CRN's can do that would eliminate ten twenty thirty hours a week of administrative tasks and labor from those manual processes do they have to call the client to get the files do they have to enter the intake into a system and then manually create the retainer agreement how many steps can we remove by employing a system like this and when you think about it like that the in that way now you're talking about the capture or increase of conversion because it's taking less time and and legal consumers are of it you know instant gratification minds that if they want it right now they don't wanna have to wait so from that perspective things are happening at a much faster pace no matter how fast your team might be I guarantee you the software is faster but it's all set up and automated so that instant gratification keeping them engaged while you have their attention and pushing them through or working with them through that process so that you can get what you need to start working on their case and then lastly reporting and I talk a lot about this on our blog if you ever want to search on lex tech review the word log for a newer we do spotlights on law firms all over the country that fall into this law premiere mentality or mindset the future or cast their goals they are obsessed with metrics and so when we're talking about CRN's reporting is one of their strongest features their strongest capabilities you can track everything down to a granular detail you can create custom reports you can see if you have satellite offices which one of them is producing or converting at the highest rate you can look at the work of an associate the revenue of an associate you can see your overall sales funnel and how much money is left out there that you could be making this particular month and more and so now what we're going to do is we're going to dive into some of the options and a couple of things before we get into the CRM itself this is my soapbox speech of 2018 by far text messaging is the new email if your case management or your CRM is not integrated with SMS or has SMS or text message functionality you should seriously be considering your options and a potential who's legal consumers more and more and more are dominantly working with their attorneys over text message requesting appointments over text message confirming appointments over a text message I'll get into the services of one particular provider that does appointment booking in conformation over text and their law firm clients to see a significantly higher show rate because of it it's just the facts I heard a an interesting quote the other day from a teammate of mine that if you want a millennial to open an email you have to text them and ask them to open an email which seems completely ridiculous but that is where we're moving to I mean think about how over whelming your email can be but if somebody sends you text message and says I need something right away you will act on that particular message faster than an email it might be sitting in your inbox since earlier that day so now the CRM options so there's really three really strong solutions in the marketplace we're going to talk about all three of them their names all start with an L so it should be easy for you to find afterwards and again we'll be circulating this recording as well as the handouts which include reviews of all three of these software packages and a copy of our marketing services buyer's guide that's coming out later this month so first we're going to start with LexA cotta LexA cotta entered the market a couple of years ago and it is a solution that can be used for any practice area if you what you're looking at here is you're looking at the agenda screen there's also a dashboard with projections of your funnel the agenda is interesting because it allows you to see the tasks appointments and emails that are going out to a particular client across the entire firm so a couple more strings from lexico de to give you an idea of what these tools do is that it gives you the ability to enter a lead or capture lead almost instantly they also have an integration with the unbundled attorney on lex tech review the unbundled attorney Alexa cotta and I did a group web in that shows how leads and these are DIY clients can flow through from the lead capture all the way into lexicon and then have an automated series of emails or other items to send out to that particular lead or potential new client so the goal with any of these systems is to get the process done as fast as possible so here we enter a new person a new company or pull up an existing contact from the quick intake we can also go to a quick form which is to fill out a form or send a form to a client so let's say that you've captured their information or they're an inbound lead coming in from a marketing source you can create intake forms and quick forms and actually publish them on your website or send them in an email so instead of having to take let's say you have a contact us form on your website that goes and it sends you an email now that can be a quick form that drops right into the software and it's also um attached to a particular workflow so it captures that contact information and then it immediately sends out an email that says thank you so much for your info would you like to schedule an appointment maybe there's a link to an appointment scheduler you can pretty much create whatever it is that you would like that process to be I mean obviously within reason lexicon is pretty flexible and a lot of their strong suit is their intake and forms and then also on this is an example of their matter page so even though you have a case management system like Clio or practice Panther for example these matter pages integrate with those tools so you're gonna take the lead from the time that they're generated all the way through the conversion process the console get their information create a case and then now you can see they're enrolled in a workflow what are my notes what are the emails and files associated this matter and with the click of a button you can go over to their same file in Clio and certain pieces of information are shared between the two systems to my knowledge not everything is shared between the two systems next up is long Maddox law Maddox is probably the most exciting new piece of technology to enter the market in 2018 as well as there's actually this one and then I'd say that there were two more and really really exciting pieces of technology log on and evie chat we'll talk about those on different webinars but as far as CRMs are concerned this is you know head and shoulders above what you're gonna see from some of the other tools because it wasn't built to be just a crm it was built to be a marketing automation platform and so again can be used for for all practice areas this is an example of their dashboard and what makes fly Maddox unique is that the marketing automation piece and we're going to talk about another application and that also includes some some marketing automation but this is the difference is that what you're looking at here is your ability to a design a workflow and you don't have to do this on your own so you have an onboarding team that you work with they have templates that they create for you they help you set up your document library of your engagement agreements or retainer agreements all of those template email is like oh wow SMS integration or SMS messages so on and so forth so you can also pull in all of your lead sources as well so let's say that you're you're buying ads or you have advertisements whether that's you know phone numbers or forms that need to be placed on different websites during the onboarding process you're not left to your own devices to set a system like this up they work with you to make sure that everything is connected properly so that you can get the true value out of the software and I bring that up because the Chan's down the number one reason for failure or lack of ROI when purchasing a law firm CRM is that we buy tools that are complex that are very powerful and we never follow through to set them up and so I think it's a really great 90 day program that Lomax has put together where you're literally getting a marketing consultant and the other solutions also have support services available for the time that you need to set them up and help you get everything connected take advantage and that's something that I'll talk about in best practices but take advantage of these resources these are basically dedicated consultants that are that are assigned to you to set up your your firms processes and systems and workflows that you would otherwise have to pay for and I can speak from personal experience those types of consultants will run you between 150 and 300 dollars an hour so be very mindful of the amount of resources time energy effort and cost savings that you're getting from these onboarding programs and take full advantage of them so next is agreement and this is a good screenshot to just see what you will be able to do taking your retainer agreement or engagement letter or your fee agreement anything that the client will need to sign and this can be different for different practice areas but building these out as a library because what you'll do is you'll create your agreements and then also we'll talk about the e-signature options when you're sending it out to a client and lexicon it has a signature built in as well we'll also talk about a signature within long ruler which is our next one after this but you build a database a library of these marketing assets which also include file requests and file requests is something that what we're doing is we're building the building blocks or we're putting together our ideal set of what I think to call you know marketing Legos that we use to build our dream house you put these pieces in place you have a collection of them and then we go back and we look at our workflow and we say okay step one should be send a form step two should be send a task to this particular employee step 3 should be send a file request step four should be sent or set free could be a Sunday engagement letter step four would be you'd send a file requests so on and so forth so that you have this this library of these assets that then when it comes to creating a workflow you're just putting them in order you're putting them in order and you're putting the time delays in there to see when they're being sent out how they're being sent out text message email or otherwise and you can put them all in exactly where the place where they need to be and so going through that again you've got those electronic agreements that can be signed electronically with each signature and what I also like about this is that any of the e-signature tools that you see can also trigger the tasks event calendar appointment or other item maybe it's a note that is added to a file or sent to your team so that at all times we know exactly where the client is in the course of the either process to retain the firm or after they've retained you what has been collected and what's not and the file request tool is the most advanced that I've seen in the space because it allows you to put together a set of requested files so how many times have you struggled with a client trying to get them to scan something or send emails are calling to do document collection well what law maddox has done is they've actually put together a file request template that goes out to the clients and they can open that email and then drag and drop the files right into this tool so it says I need your insurance documents I need your financial records and then I need any prior legal documents that you may have had if they worked with another attorney so that file request goes into that library and then they have reporting and all of these tools have advanced reporting the the uniqueness um in law Maddox is that they have you know custom fields and other things that allow you to generate custom reports and again for any of them this gift set up within the onboarding process so this is a referral report you can create types such as prospect or maybe open leads in a campaign and speaking of reporting really one of the areas that um or the reasons why reporting is so important is that you would be amazed how many law firms I speak to that spend hundreds of thousands of dollars per month on marketing and they have no idea which campaigns are working and which ones are not because the tracking is not in place they might be using the same phone number they don't have a Sierra grant em system and so they know that the phone is ring they know that leads are coming in but if you were to ask them where they came from or maybe you know what's the the average time that it takes a client to sign up or what is the average dollar amount that a particular client is worth to you you would find that they really don't have a whole lot of answers and it's amazing because how can we be spending millions of dollars if we don't have systems and tools and processes and reporting in place to tell us what's working and where the money is being wasted so that's what the reporting inside of Sierra runs really does for you and then it can also aid in pain out referral fees and other tools so next is going to be a system called log roller and so log ruler has a variety of tools and we're going from reporting in la Mattox to reporting in la roller so here we have a custom report builder now log ruler is a little bit different and I'm gonna skip ahead here to another slide here's four screenshots of law ruler and what I want to call out here is that they have had a tremendous amount of experience and success serving personal injury and mass tort law firms so their system is designed given the volume that a personal injury or a mass tort firm would would experience and they were one of the first ones to integrate text messaging also have artificial intelligence powered text messaging so that there are canned responses that will go out within the conversation I'm obviously not stepping into UPL or giving legal advice but engaging the lead log roller actually came about because of the BP oil spills so how many you know thousands and thousands of leads were coming in for these mass tort firms that they had to have a software that could support that kind of volume and so I've seen other software solutions that speak to specific problems in the personal injury and mass tort areas and they're always designed to service that particular practice area now you can use it in other practice series if you choose you can see in the reporting screen we have a multi practice firm that serves personal injury um DUI and then also workers comp so you've got a three area practice area firm and this system is supporting all three what's also important to note here is that you can also connect all of your marketing sources so you can see that third column over from the left underneath reporting is engage live chat and so you're able to connect all of your marketing sources your chat vehicles your intake forums everything into this system and then it will take you through the form what's been completed by the client what needs to be completed by you can we retrieve that information over text message and the interesting thing about law ruler is that this text messaging tool is built-in so as we discuss you know the move in communication and from something like phone and email into how people are now more inclined to text you it's critical that we keep those text messages into conversations in a place that can be documented if for ethical and malpractice reasons that we don't have staff running around with with company phones that it's all and properly kept in a secure place online where it could be audited where if that employee were out you can pick up the conversation where administrators or managers have access to it and so lobular has that capability and then you also have your dashboard in the top right hand corner where you've got potential new clients wants and clients referred clients rejected clients and then also conversion metrics open and qualified in defiance is an 11 percent conversion of the total leads received and then also love this metric average days to convert to a client and then the total estimated case value if you're putting a case value on any of their cases so these are the types of things that serums do for you they tell you how your business is functioning is it healthy what is your conversion rate and now we can really start to talk about being obsessed with those metrics where can we move the needle how can we make improvements what advertising sources are working and which ones are not because those are the areas that we should cut and move the money to where it would be achieve a higher ROI and so just a larger screen shot of that dashboard report that bird's eye view of client and case interactions funnel metrics on the left conversion metrics on the right with the ability to filter above now both LexA kata and LexA kata and long maddox do have extensive reporting and tools and funnel reports you will often use what is off-the-shelf and then create custom reports that suit exactly what you want to look at or specific metrics for your practice area and then lastly is that um this is the report builder so we've looked at this for a second earlier you can make your own adventure with any of these and build the reports that speak to you and then now let's get in to best practices so best practices overall when talking about a implementing a law firm CRM as I mentioned earlier you have to 1,000% commit to the setup of that system you have to connect all of your lead sources which also means auditing the lead sources one of my favorite quotes from the founder of law medics Matt Spiegel is that if a firm goes through the onboarding process with us even if they decide not to use the software they will still be better off having gone through that evaluation because it really goes into their prep they go into their practice and they find all of the marketing sources they connect all of the dots between everything that they have maybe they cover areas that they're spending money that they didn't realize or that we're not were more than they had originally signed up for you can also integrate the CRM with your case management system during this process and then asking for help and engaging your team as I noted in the beginning of the presentation different staff members are going to use this system differently and in designing that you're going to purchase the system and then forcing it upon them it doesn't always go so well so I always say that with software implementations the first 20% of success is emotional buy-in you have to sell encourage and also engage your team and show them that you are as committed to making this work as you're asking them to be for any piece of software that you're going to implement into right and then lastly as you're getting started review your your reports daily and you'll find that you'll start to get excited about those numbers or maybe you've been wanting them for a long time and now they're available to you so review those reports daily in in an ideal world you would be doing it as a team which also creates accountability the other half of marketing is sales again so if you don't have people that are engaged in that process these reports can oftentimes drive motivate inspire and increase performance across the entire team and then also on the flip side if people don't want to get on board and they don't want to do their job well then at least you know and you have their reports and the data to prove it so lastly intake services and training if there is one complaint that I hear from marketers across the spectrum of service providers for law firms and we're gonna be talking a lot about that in our upcoming book the marketing services buyer's guide is that they are frustrated by clients who spend marketing dollars but don't take the time to put the same attention towards their internal teams their internal staff their internal processes so you can spend all the money in the world on technology or marketing but if your people are not properly trained that money will be wasted or you will have lead loss or you will have low conversion numbers there's just no two ways about it I have never seen a intake team or a law firm and be able to convert at a hundred percent every single time without any type of training and oftentimes if they are converting at a hundred percent they're taking on cases that they shouldn't or clients that are gonna be problematic so proper intake services and training is a must if you're crossing that thirty leads four-month mark or fifty leads per month mark or 75 which are really kind of the metrics that these providers look to have you at justifying the investment of a CRM is a minimum of 30 leads per month in an ideal scenario around 50 or 75 to get that the most value out of the software so here are three providers HCT stands for hero conversion technologies they provide either overflow or 24/7 dedicated staff that does all of your lead conversion appointment setting and appointment confirmations they will also do some doc collection and they use tools like text messaging they'll log in to your CRM system or your case management system and that is a rock solid option specific to two law firms the next is alert communications alert communications is a larger operation HCT is a boutique you know dedicated team for your law firm you're gonna work with the same people that are going to act as if they were sitting in your office they're just in a different physical building alert communications can handle and scale incredibly fast the ability for them to take on a large national personal injury or mass tort campaign they can do that overnight without blinking an eye they service all practice areas they have a large facility in California and that also has an incredible disaster recovery and rollover plan so those two options are to outsource your lead conversion client into consult into appointment instead making sure that they're getting to the firm and that those are being handled instantaneously and in both situations you can either use them as overflow or you can use them as a as a secondary option if you don't want to hire a team or maybe you've had challenges building an intake team in the past all right and then lastly is attorney market power so let's say that you have an intake team but they're just not performing or maybe you have an intake team and only one out of the five is a rockstar how do we get the other four in the group at Abbey level maybe they won't be in any level maybe we just are trying to get them from a Dido of being right amp attorney market power does one-on-one training with weekly check-in calls and management of the weekly reporting for law firms that have a team in a house and just want to get their people to the next level they also do training for associates on the consult and document collection and collections so they look at the overall roles within the firm and then you can choose to provide training to front office or certain back office staff as needed so the first two options are I want to outsource either all overflow or the nights and weekends or full-time and then the last solution the amp attorney market power is a training a one-on-one training and consulting program and all three solutions I've personally visited their offices and know their teams very well so that has been our overview of law firm CRMs you can go to Lex tech review.com to check out individual product reviews we will be emailing you links to our reviews of three solutions that you saw today and then we'll also be following that up at the end of the month with our solo to midsize firm marketing services and technology buyer's guide that will also include a list of approved marketing agencies and when I say approved that is because there are a lot of marketing agencies out there that I have seen take advantage of law firms or that are not familiar with the differences in marketing law firm compared to a landscaper or doctor's office or a hair salon or what have you so these are tools and service providers that have been vetted by myself and other other experts in the space and that can be recommended due to their quality of service and expertise so I thank everyone for joining me today here is my contact information you can reach me at Lex tech review.com or you're also welcome to schedule a free consultation with me this session has been recorded you'll receive a link to the recording within 24 hours of it being of us ending today so you'll receive it by noon or 1:00 Eastern tomorrow you'll get that email please feel free to email me at any time to reach out to schedule an appointment on my calendar and we do have time for some questions today so feel free to enter those in uhm ok excellent so while we're taking questions um go ahead and enter any that you might have and how we have until the end of the hour so we have sometimes tackle them so first question is I have a question between Alexa cotta and the law Maddox for marketing campaigns do you need an email program such as Constant Contact for an email campaign so if you're gonna be doing email marketing Scott um the ability for you to set up a workflow and to do hardcore email marketing is built into law Maddox lexicon I has some white email workflows I would say that between the two Alexa kata is a complete replacement for a marketing automation tool so you would not need anything like Constant Contact you would not need you would needed anything along those lines to supplement everything is gonna be built into law Maddux LexA kata is more of a CRM than it is a marketing it doesn't have the same marketing automation features so I would definitely lean towards automatics that that's what you're looking for especially if you're able to eliminate you know I'm always like the the fewest amount of tools possible that do exactly what you want to do so I would lean harsh words low Maddox in that particular case next question is how do you feel about programs that won't tell you the price without doing a demo or a phone call so it's always a great question um it's a personal it's a personal approach and coming from having worked for vendors before pricing changes there's different onboarding costs for different firms and they know that they're more likely to get your contact information if they won't tell you the price without talking to you over the phone if it is gonna be a price question for you I would be clear with them upfront and maybe even send them an email and just say hey this is my budget or how do you compare to these other providers and see if they give you a response over email as a customer you know would I be frustrated by them not giving me pricing yes as a marketer I also you know Ana consultant to law firms we also tell law firms not quote fees over the phone because until you really explain the value of the product I think that people have this expectation of what it's gonna cost and so I I don't disagree with the practice to answer your question because again we always you know state a law firm it's not to quote their fees over the phone so we in some ways do the same thing I would be be clear with them if you do have a budget in mind or again going back to that leave count of this is how many leads I get per month what can I expect your forecast my anticipated cost would be and also how am I gonna get the ROI so at my lead count per month what do you see or can you give me maybe you won't on s for price but can you give me the contact information of another law firm who is at the same level that I'm at or at the same volume that I'm at and they might be more willing to get you a reference before they give you exact pricing and anyway oh do all of these systems come with an ongoing fee so the onboarding fee does vary between the systems and again that just depends on whether it's a one-time setup or that's ongoing coaching or consulting overtime on this is an added cost and what I would look to the provider to ask is how long does the onboarding take like these are some of the questions when you're vetting a CRM provider that you can feel free to to direct their way how long does the onboarding process take how much of my own time is going to be required because that's oftentimes something that people don't think about do I have to do a call with you every week am I gonna have to check in with you every day or we're gonna do this over email how walk me through the process of how we actually get set up because again you have to think about the impact of of your own time and whether or not you are the best person to be working on that or maybe it's your office administrator maybe it's a support staff or a front office staff member they can lead that project okay any other questions before we close out today's session excellent well thank you all so much for spending time with me this afternoon and to everybody who's watching this recording after the fact we appreciate you checking out lex tech review and we will follow up and have reviews of all of the software posted on our blog so that you can check them out after today's course feel free to share the recording with anyone that you think might be helpful we'll also be posting it on our YouTube channel thank you to everyone again I hope that you have a wonderful rest of your day and if we didn't get to your question feel free to email me or set up a time to discuss your particular technology or marketing challenges have a wonderful rest of your day and we get you