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thank you it is so great to be here today at saster seeing all of you irl 3d all the things um i'm really excited to talk to you today i'm going to walk through seven lessons harder and lessons that i've learned in what i call product led scaling it's kind of what happens after product led growth and i'll talk to you a little bit about my experience at talk desk a little bit my experience at live ramp and now at dropbox but first i want to tell you a quick story so that's me and this is what i call my pandemic hobby uh i really enjoy stand up paddle boarding and i'm standing paddle boarding in what is called the csun slough try saying that like three times fast it's impossible and what is unique about the csun slough is that it is a fresh water body but i'll just kind of place it for you it is sitting kind of near benecia so for those of you who aren't bay area natives the bay area is surrounded by water this is something i learned over time from chicago and the csun slough meets the grizzly bay which is a saltwater body which means the carquinos strait which meets san paulo bay and eventually the san francisco bay those are all salt water bodies and what's unique about the water in the csun slough is this what's called brackish water now that sounds really gross but really all it is is a unique ecological phenomena where salt water and fresh water meet and virtually nothing actually survives in there but as i was like paddling around and kind of looking around i noticed these little turtles swimming around and those turtles got there because some parent was like at a fairground and some kid won a turtle and you know the parent wasn't so happy they dropped that turtle into the stream and the turtles you know this is how turtles have survived for the last 20 million years but what is unique about the csun slough is that there are climate scientists at the university of california at davis who believe that turtles hold the key to potentially understanding global warming these turtles have managed to thrive in an environment that literally nothing else is able to live in and that's a little bit like product led scaling what's unique about product lead scaling is you're dealing with you know most companies like what i call the product like grown-ups how many of you actually work for one of these products like grown-ups raise your hand okay we've got like a few of you in the audience so what's unique about product like grown-ups is that they have managed to take a product-led motion and marry it with some kind of sales assist or sales-led motion now what i think is interesting about this you know working at one of the product like grown-ups is it seems so straightforward you know i work for the original product led growth company dropbox and being on the inside you start to realize you know you actually kind of need both motions you need to find a way that both motions work together so that's what we're going to talk about today how to actually navigate your way through the product led maze now i have worked at a wide variety of different types of companies at different stages i worked at talk desk which is one of jason's favorite investments it's one of the latest decacorns i worked there when we were going from a million dollars an error to around 50 million dollars narrow i ran product then i went to live ramp i ran product live ramp for those of you who don't know live ramp it is in the paid media marketing space it's a public company and we help marketers uh take their crm and then go and target uh on the sorry on uh paid medium and then of course you all know dropbox i joined dropbox about a year ago and um we're kind of in that we're still in that maze and so first the first lesson that i'd like to share is what i call improving your customers customer's csat so what does that mean well i like to kind of start this with a story so i joined talk desk and about a month in i was about to fly to portugal and portugal is where most of the development team was at the time and what i you know is about to get on the plane and tiago our ceo calls me and says you're not going to portugal right now you're going to atlanta and you're we had an outage last night for two minutes and you're gonna go and talk to our largest customer which was the weather channel at the time so i get in the plane and i fly to atlanta and i get there and the weather channel how many of you have ever like watched the weather channel okay everyone probably everyone um that's actually not what the weather channel is for the most part that's not where they make most of their money they make most of their money powering the weather app on your iphone they power also like what are kind of like bloomberg terminals inside of airplanes and when talk dusk went out for two minutes pilots were actually trying to call down to the weather channel into the what i would only describe as like i've never been on the floor of nasa but it's almost like a nasa control center and when talked us went out the pilots weren't able to say oh should i fly through this fog or fly around it and so we really you know that was kind of like the first lesson that hit me where i was like oh my god we're actually not building for our customer we're building for their customer who is paying them and we are one of these mission critical systems and so we really made it our mission in those early days to make it super easy for agents to self-serve on board themselves we made it easy you know we called it i think this is like the dirty little secret of all sass it's on the front page of every single web page it's the hero so ours at the time was called create a call center in five minutes guess what no one was creating a call center in five minutes but it made it seem easy it made it seem accessible so that anyone could do it themselves and so at that time we also did something really unique we started doing it it doesn't sound crazy right now but at the time we started doing sms csat and making it super easy to collect data that way we also allowed and this is kind of one of the unique things i'll give credit to our designer i think this is like a design hackathon we actually gave the agents the ability to say this is how happy my customer was at the end of the call so we very intentionally started laying the groundwork for being really a data asset and so lesson number one improve your customers customers cset so here we are talkdos has survived going from a million to 10 million dollars which as many of you out there know it's not easy and now we're at the point where like okay let's put our foot in the gas how do we actually like 10x this thing and as we looked around at what options we had we had something like 20 different integrations that were actually driving revenue and really all that matter was one of those integrations and it was salesforce and the reason why it mattered is something every single time our customers kind of hit a certain level in their own growth they graduated off of whatever ticketing system they were using onto salesforce and we saw this pattern happen over and over and over again and why why was that interesting because salesforce is notorious it's hard to actually like navigate your way through that ecosystem what we did that was different well first we got to know the product team at salesforce really well we would like go out to beers with them on a regular basis but what we learned was we kind of treated them almost as our customer and we started to learn about the customer journey across companies we really started to focus on how do we like actually land with a product led partnership so we built the first kind of onboarding flow directly through salesforce so that the sales engineers at salesforce could create a call center in five minutes on salesforce this is the first time that happens and so really starting to think about okay what part which customer are you solving this for and how do you actually create a product-led partnership not just a product-led product and so we really kind of crafted this motion and then also started to expand into outbound sales so we went from you know these are the use cases on the the bottom we went from call center in five minutes now you can actually like add outbound sales and oh by the way now we're actually starting to land mid-market accounts on a more regular basis land with part product led partnerships next now we're at the point where things are going crazy like we're adding more and more customers we're also losing customers and we don't always know exactly why we're losing customers but we see customers graduating off of us on to the 5.9 the genesis of the world and we realize we actually we can't build fast enough so you know our kind of white lie at the time was intelligent contact center we had one ai engineer at the company but we really wanted to be this ai powered call center so how do you do that you actually launch a platform yourself and so what we did was we built a product led platform ourselves we kind of we were looking at like heroku and salesforce for inspiration highly recommend going through the heroku flows to see how they allow you to add licenses um we require that every single partner that wanted to be in the talk desk ecosystem set up a trial themselves so this was like kind of unheard of in this industry where you know these sales cycles took three to six to nine months and we were saying no actually any admin or any supervisor can go and add a trial themselves we also launched a wall-to-wall workflow added a desk phone at this point so that we can start to creep our way into enterprise and ultimately we identified a target where we ended up acquiring one of the the analytics platforms so you can kind of start to see there's a lot of different ways that product led motions can get layered into a sales led motion so let's switch gears a little bit i'm going to tell you a little bit about my time at live ramp so i helped live ramp shift from you know about 100 million dollars and grow into about a 400 million dollar business and what was unique about live ramp is we were really truly sales-led we're really focused on mid-market and we're also kind of in a pickle live ramp is for those of you don't know as i mentioned you take your crm live you run it through live ramp and then we basically maintained a cookie graph so that you could go and target you know anywhere on the web but what we had learned is that google was getting rid of cookies so we were like oh something i can't stay on stage and what we did next was kind of look around our business and say okay what is resistant to cookies and what we realized is that our tv business was really focused on you know it was growing like crazy and we saw this little partner called data plus math that was kind of like trying to get you know they were getting more customers than we were in the tv space which is crazy and what they had done was kind of build their own data asset they were able to in a matter of days get somebody up and running doing television measurement this is like unheard of at the time and so i think this is the fastest acquisition i've ever been part of we acquired them in i think three weeks and all of a sudden we had a product led motion that was like driving a bunch of our sales live motions at live ramp so really think about and kind of look at your business when your back is against the against the wall think about well is there somebody i could go and acquire that would actually give me that product-led motion so again understand your customers do something about it we weren't quite ready to do something about it but by making this acquisition we were going down that path so here i am i'm you know maybe i'd been there for six eight months and i went and met one of our customers and uh i was i was in a boutique retailer in uh in minnesota um and this retailer you know really wanted to have us meet with our data science team and i was like well we've got all these out-of-the-box solutions and you guys are already buying this from us so why would we go and meet with them they're like no no trust us so we sit down with our data science team and the data science team says that's great you took like a load off of us by giving us access to these insights but we just kind of want the data we're like i don't know like this is licensed in a particular way and what we realized was there's a huge opportunity in the analytics space that was being unmet and we were able to go and build a product-led motion for the data scientists we were able to create a closed-loop environment where we put the data in data scientists were able to use the tools they were already used to like gcp and bigquery and we created something that we called the safe haven where your data goes in but your data never comes out we were able to use our own ip to create this new environment but then we what was unique about and why i call it a product live motion is data scientists were creating analytics and publishing them to the marketers publishing them to the sales team publishing them all across the organization so really think about if you're working for a sales like company what are ways that i can actually use product-led techniques to expand within the organization i've already landed all right so here we are to where i am today how many of you in the audience have a dropbox account all right so this is probably like one of the first companies that i'm talking about that you've heard of awesome um so dropbox as i mentioned one of the first true product like growth companies uh i remember 2010 i like sent an email to about 50 people saying hey you want two gigs of space that was like a lot back then um and i think i like collected maybe like 15 gigs for myself off of that growth hack so one of the you know kind of like original value props for dropbox was really around storage but when i joined dropbox you know a year ago storage is commoditized storage is kind of like we have to have it but that's not the reason why people use us and so i i was really trying to wrap my head around this as i joined dropbox i went and i sat down with like 30 customers being like well why do you use dropbox if you also pay for google or you also pay for microsoft or you also pay for you know whatever and what i learned i think it was one of those things you kind of have to come in as an outsider and really like you know have what like beginner brain to something because the reason why people were buying us was complete it was like slightly different they were buying us because we made it easy to share content outside of dropbox and what was unique about that is you know dropbox like the original reason why people use us was you have an iphone and you have a pc and you want to like access all your files between those two well now it like kind of had shifted well i have a pc and i'm sharing a file with you and my client is on a mac and i want to make sure they can actually open it so somewhere along the way our value proposition had completely shifted but we had kind of like growth our way from you know like dropbox was the fastest company to go from zero to a billion dollars you're not the fastest company to go from a billion to two billion dollars but what was interesting about it is you know is like kind of a straightforward path to a billion but a billion to two billion was not straightforward we tried to go to mid-market with the sales assist motion we tried to go to enterprise with a sales led motion we tried to add a new company we bought hello sign but really ultimately people are you know our value prop had evolved not completely changed and so this year one of the things that we've really been focusing on um you know our website doesn't say it just works but internally that's kind of like our motto like it just better work and we really focus on how do we really just start to improve our funnel health and really kind of go back to the basics improve retention pull out some of the growth hacks it's really hard to pull out growth hacks once you put them in um and just i call it giving before you get really focusing on that basic first user experience so as you start to like come into a new company think about where they are in their trajectory and really try to put on that beginner brand or even with yourself like why are your customers using you what has changed in the market and how do you continue to lean into that uh you know that change so evolve towards value from virality and finally so we found our next wave to ride and it wasn't the easiest thing when i started it wasn't obvious but what's unique about dropbox is that you know maybe this is not unique about dropbox but i think during covid everything changed and including our most engaged users workflows so our most engaged users are solo creatives freelancers creative teams people using big files right they're using big videos and you know it's like the chain smokers sharing uh you know sharing content or whatever so what's unique about dropbox is we have all these amazing creators on our platform and we're in this just completely different environment now where we've are able to actually tie together workflows simplify things but the other thing that's unique is we're in this era transitioning from the file to the cloud and we believe is the next error for dropbox is one organized place for all of your content so the last thing i'll leave you with is if you're building for everybody sometimes you end up building for nobody so make sure you understand who your best users are at scale so last three kind of wrap up here make sure that you understand how your product lead motion is evolving you're kind of paying attention to those transitions because those transition points are where the opportunity sits make sure you don't try to box product led anything into anywhere and then finally figure out how to marry your sales motion with your product led motion so that you can survive thrive and evolve like the turtles thank you so much [Applause] [Music] [Music] you