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[Music] something that we get are at a lot or there's I suppose I'm not not a lot of clarity around is the steps in conducting an order it's not clear Where You Are in the audit process the steps so we've added this 77 steps in so that it's clear what stage you are at within the orders because you know we might just talk about document review and it's sort of a big well okay well where does document review fit in to everything why am I doing this now how does it feed into the next step and so on so as a whole these are the seven steps okay initiate the audit do your document review correct prepare for your on-site activities conduct those on-site activities then you can prepare the audit report complete the audit and then conduct the follow-up right I'm going to step it out step by step all right so obviously the first step is initiating the audit right so I'm just going to scroll down because Kelly Taylor has laid it out neatly in this one so this initiating the ordered includes appointing the audit team leader we should have something about the team yeah so obviously we need to understand who our audit team is as well and then part of that is well who's going to be the audit team leader we need to understand and Define why we're conducting the audit what the scope of the audit is so the scope is the extent and Boundary so which locations are they any particular is it any particular like um departments activities processes and then the criteria what are we conducting the audit against you can see we actually can't commend the audit at this stage unless we know who our who is on our audit team who the team leader is what we're auditing against what the scope is and why we're conducting it it also talks about determining the feasibility of the audit so do we have enough information to understand what the objective scope and criteria are or a point a an audit team um is the order t on board you know does the time frame suit Etc um and do do we have an audit team that's available what's the duration of the audit so this is all about understanding well what do we need to move forward with this audit and then of course the final thing is once we know all of this your audit team order team leader objective scope criteria and have we got all of the information we need then we can establish that initial contact with the order T to say hey this is what we've planned and then that start that process off with and what this will come up later in preparation with your audit plan and timetable and so on all right so that is step one sorry for all the scrolling but that is step one just understanding what it is about this audit what what do we need who our audit team is and so on all right just those Basics once we know that we can move to the second one which is conducting document reviews I'm going to skip to that one here this is a bit of a different layout so I'm just going to stay here and talk about it so now that we know this audit is coming up we know who our audit team is we know the objective scope and criteria we would have we would have or could request a certain amount of documentation to review now document review can be called different things it can be called a gap analysis it can be called a stage one audit okay so a document review is normally just reviewing an organization system against the criteria to see whether what they say they do meet the criteria it's as simple as that we're not necessarily getting into the nitty-gritty of the operation side and getting them to show off yet we're just looking at a document level okay hence why it's called a document review um so as part of say a certification audit um an initial certification the document review is very separate to the actual audit so we will actually conduct the document review separately to review the the organization's system against the criteria to determine whether they're ready to move forward with the certification audit or stage two it's called as well now as auditors we're all we're constantly conducting document review aren't we that's really just what an audit is like we talk about this document review at this stage is a bit more of a formal okay we we understand what you say you do and and Out quote from a document review um might be your checklist of questions what you're going to follow up because you're going to identify areas that are potential gaps and it's it's like doing your homework beforehand you're getting an understanding of what they say they do where you think you might need a little bit more information and that's that becomes your question so that's what I mean with a document review we're constantly doing it so if I'm conducting a recertification audit or a surveillance audit even um I'm always going to read what they say they do first and ask my question as a result of that okay or I suppose you could get them to show you what they they do and then you can check that against the documentation okay so I'm coming from the opposite end no matter which way you're coming from you're still reviewing the documentation okay whether you're reviewing it against the criteria or you're reviewing what they've demonstrated for you and you're reviewing that against what they are meant to do all right so this document review can be it is ongoing but in a more formal setting you you would normally do a document review like as a stage one audit or a gap order to something like that okay once you've done your document review you normally know a lot more about what the business does and how they do it okay so as I said then you you sort of know which direction you're heading now because of that we can move on to step three which is preparing for our on-site activities so I'll just go there ta-da number three is there so now we can see where we're in the scheme of things okay we're preparing for our on-site activities so on-site activities include things like your opening meeting conductor audit interview team meeting closing meeting all right but we've got some preparation to do first right now that we know a little bit more about what we're doing because of these first two steps all right so I'll just sort of um saw this here all of these tasks are the responsibility of the team leader okay that's a good point to take away from this um and if you're an independent into like working on your own you're the team leader the audit plan okay now that you know more about what the organization says they do what you think are potential gaps you can start putting the audit plan and this shouldn't I don't know if you've included the timetable up this is the timetable assigning work to the audit team okay so with with regard to your preparation your audit plan is about what do I need to be able so there are no roadblocks when I turn up on site okay so it could be things like PPE induction requirements um religious cultural requirements language you know dress all of these things that we need to understand so that when we turn up nothing's going to stop us from continuing okay so that's why we do the audit plan and what accompanies the audit plan I'm just going to skip that one for now is a timetable so this assigning work to the audit team you'll normally see in the form of a timetable now I just thought of this as my fed timetable because it can be quite formal um and I'm used to timetables for certification audits but something important to note here is if you're conducting say internal audits within your own business your internal audits you know whether you're an the internal auditor there as an employee or you might be a consultant if you're internal audits are only like a scope is quite small it's a certain department or certain activities and processes an internal audit might only be a few hours or half a day you might not do a formal timetable for that but what you will do is you know send an email and say hey I'm due to conduct this audit on this date I'll be there at 8 30. we'll have a quick opening meeting where I'll you know explain what the the four hours will cover we should finish by about lunch time is there anything I need to be aware of do I need PPE and so on feel free to ask any questions beforehand that's a timetable and an audit plan isn't it okay so while we do sort of formalize it in our training we do have to remember that it can be in any form so yeah please please remember that so that covers your timetable and your audit plan audit team communication yeah so it says we need to establish how the audit team will communicate with each other again this comes from the team leader I know as a team leader um when I'm as a part of an audit team I'll have a conversation with my audit teammate before the audit obviously about who's covering what that which will be documented in some sort of timetable so we're clear on which activities or for my types of orders which standards we're each covering we might then meet up early prior to the audit on that morning and just go through everything to make sure that we understand how it's going to work now if you're working as an audit team and as a team leader it's really important especially if it's a multiple day audit as well to have regular catch-ups to see where each other is at because you might come across some common areas and you don't want to both be covering those particularly if it's a certification audit or you're covering multiple systems like um oh nurse environment and quality there could be some crossovers there particularly if a system is very well integrated so it's really really important to keep that communication up throughout the last thing we have to do as part of our preparation is our checklist of questions which we can put together because we've conducted a document review now if not all the time in or in all cases that we will prepare our own checklist of questions a lot of organizations have like pre-prepared checklists um that are based on the procedure that are based on the standards so it depends on how and and which area you operate as an auditor so if you're an internal auditor the business that you conduct internal audits for um might already have checklist for you to use right if there are no checklists and this is for me as a certification auditor um I don't have a pre-prepared checklist it's up to me to take notes okay write my questions down I personally use the timetable as a bit of a checklist too so um and I'm a bit old school I normally have the timetable printed out so I can get okay done this done that oh no that's changing got to move it to here but it's it's a real good checklist for me um if I don't really write big questions I just write bullet points and then like it's sort of like a PowerPoint essentially it's a prompt right but this is really important checklists they're your own tool it doesn't matter how you do it it like they can be different it's your tool as long as how you manage these checklists um of questions it produces the results you're after it keeps you on track it supports you in asking your questions um and keeping on digging and following up audit Trails okay so as I said I'm very like I write a lot of notes not on a notepad I'm sort of sort of up where things I have an electronic notebook that I use but I've worked with Auditors that they've pre-formatted their own checklist and they use a tablet okay it's completely your tool all right sorry I'm scrolling back up so that was preparing on-site activities then we move to step four because now we are ready it's important to note that it's not just all about this is it conducting on-site activities it's not just about rocking up and asking questions either right we've got this preparation to do here and you know what part of this preparation and this might be an improvement opportunity for us as well part of this preparation is to understand well is the audit all on site they could be part of it that's remote which we need to allow for all right so it's not always just on site but in this example that's what we're going for obviously all right so you can see smack bang in the middle is where we actually start conducting the audit so I've done all of this preparation beforehand I've got my audit plan I've got my timetable because I know who my audit team is I've written my checklist of questions out I've done my document review so I sort of have an idea of what they say they do I am ready to go and that's your on-site activities but it's not just about rocking up and asking those questions there's some things we have to do beforehand and there's some other things afterwards as well the first thing we need to do for step four conducting on-site activities is an opening meeting all right this is just all about confirming what's in the audit plan and the timetable okay has anything changed you're probably confirm the objective scope and criteria as well um you'll explain to them the method of communication confirm the steps in the timetable and if anything's changed you can mark up the timetable that's why I always say don't get hung up on your timetable because it's going to change and it also gives you an opportunity to ask the audities if they have any questions as well like you may have missed something or something might be of you know importance to them that you hadn't picked up so if if that initial meet and greet and getting comfortable with each other all right so opening meeting what I personally do um after the opening meeting is um then have a discussion about the previous audit finding that's what this opening meeting is about and while you are sort of following up previous findings so that could be non-conformances observations Improvement opportunities I do all of them regardless it does give them an opportunity to share what they've done since the last audit with regards to those findings and while you might not be able to see the evidence while you're in there it gives you an idea again start writing your questions down it gives you an idea of where you do have to go what you do have to ask to verify those corrective actions that they've told you about all right so it it helps you to remember what it was all about it gives you an idea of what they've actually implemented and then throughout the course of the audit you know how and where to follow those up because obviously something I always say and audit is not a single event it is something that you're always constantly following up um those previous findings and it's our role as order to close those out each time and if we don't close them out we might downgrade them if they've done some partial work or if they've done nothing we'll be upgrading them okay so it's really important to stay on top of um those previous audit findings and I do that after the opening meeting so there's a there's a tip there um again you need to organize ensure that they understand how things are going to be communicated you do that in the opening meeting again I have a I have my own little checklist that I use for my opening meetings and I have my little closing meeting checklist as well just to you know I don't know that's probably six seven eight points on there that I know I need to cover um for my clients and the industries and sectors that I ordered in you can have your own list obviously and part of that is explaining that you know you'll be verbally confirming any findings and you go you will be taking notes you'll be confirming any findings at the closing meeting and so on okay um oh yeah at the opening meeting again this is where you would confirm um any guides that you'll have during the course of the audit um who's who's going to be with you during that duration of the audit um and if you've got any observers with you well they're cooking on both sides I guess so but for me normally if it's a um I'm just trying to think oh yeah my next audit I'm actually being observed because at the certification order I can't remember how often it is there's a moderation um process that the certification body has to go through so another auditor has to observe you conduct certain elements of the audit so at that opening meeting I'm just they already know they're coming obviously we need we need to get their approval but you have to ensure that you introduce them and explain the role because an observer is not part of the audit they will not be asking any questions they're purely for me okay veal like I'm being audited so that's one example of when there's an observer um sometimes there might be a new auditor and they're just sort of onboarding them and they might just be observing how you conduct the audit but they're not a part of it right so there's sort of different different levels there then of course during the audit this is conducting your audit interviews okay where you will be asking questions collecting [Music] um information collecting evidence collecting record all taking you towards the outcome or the objective of the audit which is to determine the extent of conformance against the criteria okay that's that's your whole goal for being there all right so yep definitely we can have a chat you can tell me how you do it but we want to see how you do it okay and if you say you complete this form or this part of the process can I see it I need to see or have it been done all right so always be verifying um and of course the output from that is generating your audit findings okay as you go along and collect your evidence you'll be going okay well that's conforming and that's what we have to remember majority of the time it is conforming but we have to make sure it is and still have objective evidence it's not you know all warm fuzzy feeling stuff we still need objective evidence um and then of course if there are gaps um which could depending on the grading could be non-conformances major or minor observations or Improvement opportunities I use those terms all the time because they're most common but sometimes different organizations use different terms all right so it's really important for Arthur's Auditors to understand what those terms are is there any more there is oh preparing your audit conclusions this is normally at a team meeting all right so we've had our opening meeting we've gone around asked some questions collected the evidence we've got some findings so non-conformant potential no conformances or observations then at our team meeting we prepare our audit conclusions okay so this is all so that we can can like present them at the closing meeting right that is purely the main aim of this team meeting is to line all of the Ducks up okay make sure we can back ourselves up we shouldn't have gotten to this stage without having obtained agreement already from the order T at least and ensure that we understood what they have shown us and explain why it was not conforming right and got them to go oh yeah yeah and agreed to that um and then so sorry what I do here is I actually type these up in the team meeting what I do is type up non-conformances observations Improvement options like they will be receiving them in the report so then when I'm at the closing meeting I have my laptop with me and I go through these findings okay because it's a good test for me to see whether they understand um what the report is saying what the non-conformance is and so on are because once we leave that's all they've got is that report so I am constantly in a clothing meeting if they've asked a question or it's clear that they weren't quite sure I'll highlight it or type some notes in there so I know when I go to finish the audit report that I've got to tidy that up a bit so it's a really good opportunity to test how you've written up your non-conformances so that's four all right now we go to step five so we're nearly there we've done it okay so now we need to prepare this audit report which sometimes you think ah I finished the audit now I've got to do the audit report and I don't know about you guys but some of my clients I can do the audit report really quickly but some it's just like never ending I think the more complex it is and if it's a triple certified um audit and Company it just seems to take so much longer but for me I need I need to do it pretty much straight away okay the next day I need because there's why you've taken notes there's still a lot of I'm going to say tacit knowledge in your head that you remember from conversations that some context is probably a better word so you that that context is still you know live and kicking because you've just finished the audit if I if I was to leave it any longer I think I'd I just wouldn't remember those more intimate like contextual side of things from my written notes so now we need to prepare the audit report okay that's sort of I know Kelly's done it like this I like I like this step-by-step bit um so we do have to do our audit report but as I said in the team meeting I actually have I should have already written up any findings so that part of the report is is pretty much done except for a few things I need to tidy up um so then of course you've got to complete the rest of the report and it depends on the types of reports you write right if you if your audit reports are by exception reporting by exception just means that um you're reporting the findings only but for management systems and particularly for me the certification auditor I need to also report on what's satisfactory we've got two to go six completing the audit so we say that you've completed the audit when everything in that timetable is is done right don't forget though that as part of your audit you may have um you may have collected um records or evidence it could be hard copy it could be electronic so you really need to be conscious about returning that ensuring that it is returned um or if you've taken it that it's shredded and confirming what you have actually done with that evidence I always um if I collect evidence and it's hard copy at the closing meeting which is in step four as your last on-site activity at the closing meeting I always make a big deal of having it all lined up you know if I'm in if we're in a meeting room or something I line it all up I keep it neat and tidy all in their separate bundles and say okay this is what I've returned bang bang bang bang bang all I've got is what I came in with all right really ensure that they understand that yeah you're aware of that information security side of things if in the event that um you do need to take something with you always ask permission I'm not you know sometimes if it's a copy of something and it's not necessary for them and you might want to refer to it to get a little bit more contact in your audit report that might be when you take something but yeah if that if that's the case you might need more time allocated for the audit that's something else to consider um taking photos as well remember to always ask permission before you take photos I personally don't like getting people in it and if if if the person is part of it always ask their permission first all right so if this is just all about being sensitive about the information that you have collected right so that's on that completion of the audit confidentiality comes into play with completion of the audit as well so you know what we've learned and discovered and seen we don't talk about with our next client and Tony and Kelly you might have the same issue like it's a small world that we rotate in and for me my audit clients and even training um clients their customers or their suppliers are also mine so we'll be reading something or talking to someone and they'll mention a different company and you'll go oh like I audit them or yeah or you're reviewing their supplier list and you can see some of your clients and there might have been an issue or a complaint so if we really have to be aware of confidentiality all right so that's six and then the final one is seven yay conduct our follow-up now the follow-up you know how I said before an audit is not a single event so when we've completed one audit well we're planning for the next one so if there's major non-conformances we will do a follow-up audit specifically for that major non-conformance and that will be within 90 days so it's a normal time frame um but your next audit if there's minor non-conformances or observations only will be at the next scheduled audit which is normally 12 months and that Loops back to what we were saying in step four is at the opening meeting you will go through the previous findings so this Loops back well actually this Loops back to here doesn't it it's just this cyclical process all the way through we'll just start from scratch again all right so as I said to start this off with I want it to go through all of these because I'll get rid of that now so I don't have to go up and down because it is all of these things all right and when you can see it in a picture you'll understand how one links to the next and then as I said Loops back that'll over again that cyclical process because an audit is not a single event foreign [Music]