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thank you hello everyone hello everyone years we are live uh both on our webinar platform and also on SME banking TV and if you're watching us on the YouTube right now and if you would like to participate in today's discussion and ask questions to our speakers please register to the webinar platform by the link that you see in the Stream description so uh let's start my name is Selena grenuk I'm CE director at the SME banking club and I will host today's session and today we speak about how to automate bank workflows and CRM with no code and we will discuss the benefits and the features of using no code platforms and at the example of the Croatia CRM and in the Banking and Financial sector of course so let me present it once today's speakers that are ready to share their knowledge and experience in that area partner at opting partner at optingo and opting is a company that specializes in customer experience and CRM Solutions and Mike christianko VP of sales for Central Europe at Croatia a global vendor of one platform to automate Workforce and CRM with no code so welcome all of you hello hello everyone we get to be here today yeah thank you let's let's go to our topic so uh implementation of CRM is one of the pillars of uh building customer relations and a real understanding actually of customer needs and of course improving customer experience if we look at the CE region we see here that 60 of the banks implemented CRM and it is both with the Partnerships with the vendors or uh developing their own internal Solutions so let's discuss today how the rest of 40 of the banks can Implement CRM fast and with less costs by using no code Solutions and uh Michael and Mike I'm passing Awards to you let's stop the presentation and afterwards we will have a q a session and please I invite you all of you to tap your questions in the chat and we will answer all your questions in the second part of the webinar so you're welcome thank you Elena so hello everyone this is weiner from optingo let me quickly introduce you to our agenda today so that we can can kind of look it into this so we're gonna do a little intro in the beginning that's going to be my part then Mike Will gonna tell you more about the specific offering of Croatia for the financial institutions and Banks this will be gonna followed by a little demo of the of the uh on low cut no code platform creation platform that you can have a look and see by yourself and then we're gonna end up in having q a sessions so we here we're here for you we will answer all your questions hopefully during during the session so uh Mike would you like to say something in the beginning yeah sure thank you for that brief and true uh this is the agenda for today uh I just want to encourage everybody to also participate uh you know this is the topic that we wanted to discuss because it's important how Banks can utilize technology in the modern environment which is very Dynamic very competitive both from other you know Banks or fintechs and therefore the uh leveraging on the technology can bring some significant impact and outcomes to the business which cannot and should not be neglected right so the goal of today's conversation is to talk about that but then of course your input would be also highly appreciated because I know that we have quite a few professionals from the banking industry uh participating in today's discussion so please uh let's have a discussion uh you know after this intro after we talk about the solutions and of course you will have a chance to take a uh you know a sneak peek and see the demo of the solution just to get that look and feel of how it might work uh in the real organization so we'll check over to you thank you Mike so without further Ado uh I'd like to start with uh explaining maybe how we understand no code low code we're going to use those terms throughout this presentation and let me Define it for you and in a simplistic way it really what the no code means it means building software with a mouse so you don't need to program you need you don't need you you don't need to code you simply need a mouse and you are able to produce a software solution and automate the process how is that possible well this no code tools they provide a visual interface and pre-built components and therefore with a move with a drag and drop technique you can simply using those tools you can simply build the software or or automate processes so this is this really makes the difference because we all understand how it was made in the past um and uh why why want to talk to you about the Noco today well we believe that this is really the right time to discuss this topic well mostly because we are all living in the digital transformation age banks are under immense pressure to digital transform in order to stay competitive and relevant and obviously this whole digital transformation is is really based on software it always was and now is even even more dependent on the successful implementations of the software product so digital world really really means software and every business is a software business and someone said that couple years back and this is even more relevant these days and we all believe and see that no code development can play a critical role in helping achieving this transformation digital transformation that is necessary for you to stay relevant and moving forward we all understand and remember the classical I would say process processes and applications which are heavy to implement heavy to maintained and heavy to modify and they are not super super user friendly as well so this new world is of course completely different we are living in this digital workflows which are easy to use they are supporting the customer Journeys and can provide seamless experience across multiple touch points with a client so this is this is absolutely critically important these days to be able to build those digital workflows and does it mean that every company is today prepared for this Revolution and building those digital workflows today well I we don't really think so and the the basic reasons are related with this uh basic supply and demand problem that we observe on the technology Market if you look at the globally and then of the number of developers available today as more or less as some researchers say about 25 million people around the globe but on the other hand we have more or less 500 million applications to be built in the next couple years so those two those two uh figures do not match those people available classical developers they're not able to produce this number of of applications and also because some of those existing developers are really maintaining the Legacy applications so what if we could tap into this huge number of people who are not technical maybe but they know processes and they know how to they know the requirements and they might be much more effective in developing those Solutions and this is why the logo is actually local platforms and local Solutions are so important because they actually bring this capabilities to the knowledge workers so today with the help of the no code platforms we can tap into into this big pool of people which won't be ready to develop Solutions in a traditional traditional way and this was already observed by the leading analysts they actually claimed today that in a couple years from now more than 60 percent of the new application is going to be built using the no code so that's really the answer why it makes sense for you for the banks to really consider this Initiative for the for the year to come because if you do not do that I mean you're competitive competitors who will do that so that this is really the only solution to stay competitive in the in the years to come so to confirm the observations that were done on the general level let me just tell you a few numbers from the Polish market a very nice report done in the last of in the end of the last year and it basically says that between 40 to 60 vacancies for the I.T positions are cannot be fulfilled by the companies for some unknown reasons maybe but maybe the people are not available or maybe they are just too expensive right but the end result being that companies cannot find the I.T people to fulfill the vacancies they have and this is really striking that that in the end the result of this situation causes that almost 20 percent or 20 percent of the projects are basically canceled so the companies cannot cannot really start the project the ID project in order to meet the the requirements of the company because they do not have the ID people so again no code seems to be a good solution for that situation and Let Me Maybe quickly also summarize what are really the the the benefits of using no code platforms first and foremost really this is about time and speed those platforms enable much faster implementations of the ID Solutions the easier to start easier to implement and faster to implement and in the end of course the end result being the the solution the software solution or the automated process is ready to be used much faster than in a traditional way and of course this impact as well the the cost because the the those projects are much shorter they also require a lower number of people in the end the cost of this initiatives and those projects is significantly lower compared to the traditional I.T development and as a thing we are doing we have done traditional projects in the past we're doing new projects now with creation and we can actually actually confirmed that this really this is the factor of two to three even more sometimes compared to the previous previous projects another interesting benefit is the alignment those platforms support collaboration between I.T and business and a partner at the same time so in the past you need to sequentially pass over the requirements from from business to it then to the to the to the vendor maybe in this new world with those all parties work together on the same platform using the same processes this is again super important for the for the result of the project and of course you can test new products and services relatively easily it's just a matter of weeks to produce something and check whether it works or not if it works great if it if it doesn't let's do something else so all those benefits are really we're going to show you later on today so this is the reason why we ASAP tingle have decided to partner with Croatia after working with another leading vendors we really believe that creation and their platform is a unique combination of three components it's it's a unique CRM it's a platform for automate processes and at the same time is also always done in the no code fashion which is so much important these days and on top the creation is also very active in in promoting the idea of the no code this is the publication which which we highly recommend here's the link to to for the download it basically help you um plan and Implement a no-code project in your organization and I think with this I'm ready to hand over to Mike who will tell us more precisely about the offering of the creation for the for the final Financial Market back to you Mike yeah thank you very much uh thank you for explaining and drilling a bit more into the overall concept of the no code and I want to take this discussion further and talk about the single platform why is it important specifically for uh Financial Services like Banks fintechs and other institutions working in this uh domain and what kind of impact it can make and what benefits it can bring to the business right so uh first of all why are we talking about that at all right this technology which areas it can potentially impact right so the whole concept of a single platform which is a no code plan firm uh combined with a tailored applications built on top of it for CRM industry workflows and other templates and connectors can actually create that seamless Enterprise environment where data can flow from one Department to another without any silos or barriers it can be used by different people and different roles again seamlessly therefore generating a lot of benefits for the business and here are just a few areas which can be significantly improved and impacted by kind of implementing and bringing this concept I'm talking about customer experience right which can be optimizing significantly buy this processes Automation and giving the access to the data then employee experience which is the adoption of the solution right the organizations only benefit from the solutions when the employees are actually using them but then overall visibility and control over the processes and workflows with the further optimization and that of course which is very important the fourth factor is the visibility for the leadership and again all of that can be improved with the introduction of the snow coat uh platform and that one platform concept right here we can see that there is a pre-built module of a CR Ram which includes Marketing sales and service allowing to initiate your conversations with the customers and then seamlessly transfer this to the sales department can be corporate or retail and then service them to retain the customer and do the upsells and cross sales to the existing customer base then we're talking about industry workflows which is everything well you can name starting from customer onboarding uh cards operation management uh kyc processes compliances and so on and so forth related to Middle office back office operations and that of course important topic is templates and connectors which can amplify the benefits of the solution by connecting uh this environment with uh other applications coming from the third party like core banking Solutions like document management OCR and so on and so forth creating even more Synergy and benefits for the end users and for the organization overall right therefore it grants you the freedom to own your automation where there are no specific development skills needed to create those applications even though it still encourages the collaboration of I.T Department together with the business where they can create better applications and solutions which can be used by the the business right on the spot and then which are able to evolve together with the business in very Dynamic environment where change is essential right for getting the better competitive position and getting the benefits uh you know on the market again uh it can be built without any single line of code and it can uh be delivered to the market significantly and much faster than the traditional development for example then of course we are really proud that the solution has been highly recognized by World leading analysts such as Gardner and Forester where we are standing in the leaders quadrant or in a strong performer way but then again what's very important to us is that the end users on such feedback platforms like GD crowd transfer ideas captura Garden appear insides and others they highly recognize Croatia for its user-friendly interpret interface it's usability in general uh and and you know the way that solution allows them to operate on the daily basis so let's talk a little bit more about the solution itself uh you will see that in the demo because as I said at the beginning we prepared a brief demonstration so that you can get that you know look and feel of the solution but then again just to explain the uh workflow map of the solution that we have created and actually built uh on this local platform it all starts of course with marketing with army Channel Communications uh very smart segmentation allowing you to be very precise and tailored uh when talking to your customers down to sales for both corporate and Retail front office operations automation Landing module again for corporate and Retail underwriting and verification customer experience and customer service operations compliance and administrative services for internal processes automation so when we're talking about marketing we know that it's very important to start with this initial conversation with the customer who has to be sharp which has to be focused and that can be achieved through you know analyzing the data that you have stored on your customer 360 degree profile come up with a tailored message and AI can be of a help here significantly right and then approach only those customers who can you know really benefit out of this message and then convert into a real sale where your relationship managers can take that further with a this is a retail customer or a corporate customer right and we have the respective modules for that where the sales process is automated and this is a very convenient interface to perform their daily tasks both for corporate and Retail as I mentioned and then of course the front office engagement uh which relies heavily on the data from 360 degree view and gives that you know a single source of Truth for the employees where they can find literally any data any information about the customer not only fine but also populate the respective Fields uh making the uh 360 degree profile even more complete and then performing the customer onboarding account opening uh card operations uh and so on then we come to The Landing module which is again exists both for retail lending and corporate language are two very different processes yet available under uh you know a single application divided into two different lines of business and wrenches so uh it includes of course uh operation uh application management loan origination processes servicing pipeline monitoring and then uh a bunch of other workflows related to The Landing process itself again fully configurable and unflexible because it is built on the local platform so that naturally comes that recovery again can be used if this is a part of operations that you also run in your organization underwriting and verification with flexible uh approval processes configuration workflows and again very highly configurable and can be easily adjusted to the internal processes of the of the bank or or fintech for example customer experience and customer service right a convenient interface uh and and uh you know uh an application to service your customer make sure you are always in time but you do not exceed your turnaround times of the incoming requests and submitted tickets right and the goal Center proceeds automation everything uh in a single application on that same single platform that we have just spoken about everything related to compliance making sure you are in compliance with the regulation gdpr um uh I don't know anti-money and so one again very highly configurable and adjustable making sure that you can generate their respective report or making sure that you are not missing up on your compliance and administrative services this is related to the internal operations when it comes I don't know HR processes some internal processes that has to be covered and have nothing to do with you know customer facing operations again can benefit a lot from the data which is already available about the employees about the operations and of course it all wrapped uh into a beautiful reporting capabilities which are available across all of the modules of creation so um I want to talk quickly about the success story uh of our customer that we are really proud of this is a uh our customer from Romania ODB Bank even though we work with ODB group for quite a while already with ODP uh Bank in Romania we've been together for more than five years which makes us really proud of that uh you know collaboration because not only we were able to provide ODP with the relevant solution which covers multiple lines of business but also they have created their own Center of competence where they can develop and they do actually constantly develop and improve their operations on creation recovering again a lot of their uh you know business parts so uh among the the key ones I would uh stop on lending we're talking about cash loan on line two application management and verification of approval then comes customer onboarding and everything related to that so they're like relationship managers and branches they work in Croatia uh and and use the solution for our customer facing operations and branches and then data actualizations we're talking about kyc we talked about documents management and the relevant reporting tools right so covering all of those different areas and using no code actually allowed OTP to gain significant uh competitive advantage on the market releasing Solutions faster empowering their people with respective Tools in a very Dynamic environment as I said I'm on the first on the market right for example if we were talking about online lending so ODB were the first bank to release that online banking and made them available both for their customers and employees which allowed them to gain a significant advantage on the market and that was only possible because of using the no code uh local development tools and the platform itself to release the functionality when it was allowed by the regulator and no other Banks were able to do that in such a high speed right again that makes us really proud uh but not only OTP we work with major banking group groups across uh Europe uh like revising like associated general and others and others right and we are we maintain the solution and keep on releasing new functionalities to make sure that it corresponds to the modern challenges and needs of the financial services sector again so that was real briefly about the solution itself and now I believe we are about to jump into the demo uh so please prepare your questions we'll be more than happy to continue that discussion with you um as we move on thank you watching over to you I think we can uh kick out the demo now Croatia is a unique low code application platform designed for automation of custom business applications and as well as CRM operations around Marketing sales and service automation the capability and the unique value of the platform is the options to actually host all of the Core Business operations for front office middle office and back office operations as well as HR and human Capital Services Under the same roof of the application the Journey of the solution usually begins across the understanding of a true customer 360 related to all of the areas of the communication with the customers around sales marketing and service communication with the ability to aggregate all of the possible data under the same platform that provides a unique access to all of the touch points and all of the information that is so valuable for the users of the solution together with the ability to understand such Advanced capabilities as the next best offer for each individual customer not only across retail but as well corporate segments but these capabilities can as well be extended into the processes of actually acquiring additional clients for each individual organization using creation this is where our par for marketing automation solution comes in play that allows for the design of engaging marketing campaigns across multiple channels and multiple segments of Target customers all of the leads that are going to be generated from the marketing automation Solutions across all of the different segments of customers will then be captured and qualified into applications pre-calculations opportunities and ultimately Sign products with the banks from there on with the help of our service automation platform creation would allow seamless servicing of any possible customer request that is going to be registered within the application and with the help of our powerful communication capabilities with the consultation ability chatbot automation seamless integration with emailing providers and as well internal communication this would allow for the bank users to use Croatia as a single solution across Core Business applications spending last time navigating between all of the different applications and tools let's do more without the necessity of navigating between multiple applications during the day and be more productive and efficient but the true power of the platform lays within its local capability this is where with the ability of graphical design interfaces we have the ability to create very rates for visual interfaces that will be engaging the users into their day-to-day activities but as well help them to create powerful custom applications that will be then driving the user experience across multiple automation Frameworks such as DCM and BPM but it will as well allow a seamless connectivity across all of the different third-party applications and tools in the infrastructure of the bank with simplistic capabilities in Integrations of low code engine and as well to enrich the experience of the end users by allowing the citizen developers without any technical knowledge to create very powerful machine learning and AI models supporting and generating additional machine insights into the day-to-day work of all of you users across all of the Departments working with creation is working with creation all right thank you very much and I think we can we can start our q a session um my first question will be to you and then we will start reading uh the one so let's let's demand answer with the voice when we speak about no code uh Solutions do we speak about cloud-based Solutions or because just why I'm asking this question because I do hear from some of the banks in the region that they prefer in uh in premises Solutions does it also uh walk in in not Cloud let's say version yeah so uh yeah when we were talking about no code um solution it's it's actually available both on cloud and on-prem we know that this is a very kind of relevant topic for the banks because most of them either like concerned about the security and and the information the store or they are limited by the regulations in particular countries and therefore not allowed to move completely to Cloud therefore they're still able to benefit from that technology and of course there is from one provider to another when we talk about ratio we offer the flexibility to our customers to work either in cloud or on their premises right and that makes literally no differences to the capabilities that they're getting they're still getting full loan solution both on-prem and on cloud all right all right uh I will read the first question I see what you answered but let's let's do the voice uh Martin is asking how much technical expertise is required to use a no court or low code platform yes I try to respond to this one so basically the whole idea is that you do not need a very specific technical knowledge to to be able to use the platform right so in most of the cases if we talking about the no code platform so the platform that which does not require the coding at all then you don't really need to have lots of technical competencies it is enough to have a business confidence you know of course you need to be trained at some initial training in the platform is required this is nicely done by creation by the way in a series of available online trainings all kinds of trainings available so after a few days you really ready to use and an automated simple tasks of course we help typically as a matter of Creation in some more complex projects but we have clients who have their kind of initial project they basically run on on their own and they will very happy with the platform developing Solutions and automating processes on their own so it's absolutely possible which can capacity in general from from the bank side to implement and then to you know to to to provide or to do this to continue using usage the CRM you mentioned that this is most business part so and we also know that banks are very often restricted in in human resources for for new projects which capacity is needed even from the business side yeah so and I will start maybe my colleagues will will compliment uh what we typically see is that you need to number a core number of key users we call them beats from the business who understands the processes to that will will be automated during the project so this core team of several people who understand these processes plus some basic I.T team who understands the other aspects of the implementations like integration with some external systems because obviously it is not is part of this exercise we don't want to have the impression that we this is not for it this is absolutely also for it but I also play the role where they are best right for meaning integration security all these things that we that we know the idea is best at so so the starting team is really not does not need to be huge it's really several people only and this core team with the help of the partner it's also a small team as well from typically from our side so all together uh a small team can actually automate really big things during the short time yeah sorry that was the short answer the long answer could be referring to the local Playbook because then you have the the great recipe how to build Center of Excellence so for anyone interested on that subject then encouraged to to read the book yeah we will share and we will share it as well absolutely just to Echo my colleagues I wanted to say that it's absolutely enough like business competences to build the application on the no good platform but then again we want this to be a part of the Enterprise and environment of the bank and in order to integrate the solution and the application into that Enterprise environment this is where the help and the involvement of the I.T Department of the bank will be required therefore we suggest get a combining the effort of those two worlds of I.T and business building this so-called Fusion teams and you can read more about that in the book and therefore you will be able to get the the most beneficial outcome for the entire organization all right we have the next uh question from Patricia is it possible to create our own processes for example approvals Etc by Bank employees without I.T backgrounds yes I think Mike has mentioned that already absolutely possible we've seen those cases of the business purely from people purely from business departments doing the approvals not only approvals but even more complex processes absolutely themselves yeah thank you for this question that actually uh kind of contributes to the message when we are talking about owning your automation right so just with the concept in your mind you can start building the workflow or the process uh automating this with the no code and then you know start running this and then identifying the bottlenecks you can improve that over time by adjusting this uh with the uh you know capabilities of the solution and therefore coming to the most optimal result right so it's not only that you have to have like a very well defined concept you can start with something uh from the top of your mind and create this in the solution and then continuously improving this or over time next question comes from Cameron what are the downsides of low code or no codes versus traditional tools good question it is a good question I'm starting to think about it and I'm just keep thinking cannot figure out really a good answer for that Mike will you help yeah yeah I can help here because I mean well the no code approach was created actually to address all of the issues of the traditional developments right I know it might sound really bad but there are no downsides of course there are like certain particularities that you have to keep in mind but the approach and the concept itself was built to counter the uh kind of uh you know the drawbacks of traditional development therefore it is like a next version a better version of traditional development I don't think we should compare them right traditional development is used for a different purposes and no code is there to be much faster and uh what's important to the business and allowing to utilize those resources which was showed on one of the first slides like uh citizen developers which cannot be utilized for the traditional developers and to those people who literally don't have the Deep technical skills and still can contribute the application development on the org level and we have the next question from Cameron what if my bank has super unique and complex processes which stretch beyond the use cases of low quarter no chords yeah let's talk I think we will be able to maybe show you that the the platform is super flexible I mean we do not see the limitations on a platform itself in the process flow or workflow as such maybe there are some super specific cases which we need to obviously discuss and would be great to do that but so far in a typical business scenarios the bank or other clients who have not seen that that bottleneck to be honest plus what is what is also unique for creation I believe as the local local platform is that it does not it gives you also the this your choice if you want to go the development way and it's still possible on the platform so you can also customize if you want and if it's your you know well thoughtful Choice then it's still possible so creation allows you to do that for that case if really you meet the the the limit of the no code low code due to some crazy things you you you have you want to accomplish then you can still do it in Croatia platform you can create custom code using traditional languages like c-sharp and you can still it can it can be also part of the of the solution and also interact with the low code processes that you automated on the platform yeah let's talk here a little bit about the integration yes with the core system and other systems and I will add to this question also how actually how long does it does it take to to to launch and to integrate in our code CRM from your experience as well I I mean I can understand that it's probably depends on the scope usually but maybe on everything as the Consultants like to answer it depends yeah but it depends on the scope on the scope of the project integration but we had the project that lasted for like a few weeks and that was fully operational systems and we also had the projects that we had several phases and that was almost a year so it all depends yeah so the key factors yeah please watch it yeah go ahead I just wanted to mention that the integration because that was a question about the integration so integration from the local platform perspective which is crucial is easy because it's an open platform that supports all the right standards so from from point of the platform point of view this is easy to integrate typically the bottlenecks are on the Legacy systems which are say all there and they their their integration possibilities are not that developed like like this modern platform so this is where most of the time we we really spend our efforts on discussing about the Legacy system site rather than the local platform yeah there are like few items that have to be considered here like whether we are just migrating from another solution or we are trying to build something from scratch whether we have processes ready or we have to run workshops where we need to create those specifications which will then be kind of brought into the system right the sound of Integrations the Legacy that project also mentioned it all influences the the time frame but again uh well because of the flexibility of the solution itself once we have these blueprints in place it can be brought to life much faster because of the flexibility and time uh to Market that NOCO technology grants this is the core banking system mentioned here though obviously just to confirm that with those references that Mike presented that was already done on a several Banks right shown in those shown and also a lot of other Banks as well so those connections and Integrations are done on a kind of a daily basis with the with other banking systems uh all right we have the the last question from uh Patricia yes about the training can Support options available for users of no Code and low code platforms you mentioned it that you do provide uh a training and also available in the online format right on the uh on the on the YouTube uh all right my last question to wrap up uh to this session will be uh please give to our attendees your tips from your experience how to implement a CRM successfully in the bank well that's a big question for the wrap-up yes but let me start in my colleagues obviously will compliment that I well my point of view I think you need to be somehow prepared to do what you want to do right I mean it's it's really good to have thought through the sales process if we're talking about the CRM obviously CRM can be everything starting from marketing through sales up to the customer service so well depends on which area we're talking about but this way or the other you need to really understand what you want to achieve what problems you want to solve what bottlenecks you have today because this business context and understanding will help us together develop solution develop solution that will kind of meet and resolve those problems and then meet your objectives so I think this business preparation thinking about what you want to achieve with the solution thinking about the the processes itself thinking about in the end what forms and Fields you want to have at some stage right so getting being ready for that if you're ready with this kind of overall analysis or pre-analysis then the overall implementation project is really much faster and because we do not spend time on kind of trying to find out the answers for for the questions which might be already kind of available before yeah so if you got uh observations from my end based on the experience right so it's so it all starts with the leadership right so there should be a strong leadership on on the side of the organization and the uh you know will to implement some changes and do the improvements also uh the recommendation is to be agile and not to try to boil the ocean overnight so start small we call this crawl walk run so start with some smaller initiatives which can they're still you know bring a huge impact to the business and then add complexity and functionality on top of it and and tease that within the organization think about the adoption keep people prepared and improved in the process job implementation don't just dump this on their heads and then force them to use something you get their involvement get their feedback and then continuously improve and the best thing here is that no code actually allows you to be agile to be flexible and then continuously improve and evolve over time together with the business yeah thank you very much mihal would you would you add something no nothing to it probably emphasize to what already Mike mentioned but to use to use the power of the platform so to use prototyping throughout not only implementation but also analysis or designing the solution so not to not to do the old school so have a nice looking design on paper don't do it do it manner we use a lot of prototyping we just work from different first workshops with the client using the system clients see what they will get and then agile approach we we do sprints and we first try to implement what is called MVP so the most valuable product so something that makes sense for the business but it's not everything because you cannot do everything at once and it's better to do what really brings value because then organization learns and we experienced that the original requirements that we had starting project then evolved after an MVP implementation so business realized that what they wanted some time ago now they are looking for something else which is a good approach because then there is no rework we just then re-prioritize requirements and we then improve MVP including the new requirements which makes sense for the business so yeah yeah thank you very much thank you very much Mikhail Mike and voycheck thank you very much for your contribution thank you very much to all our attendees for being very active today and we will send the link to this webinar to the video recording kind of the presentation and also contacts to our speakers and if you would like to learn more and go more into details than we did today during this webinar you are welcome to contact uh our speakers and they will be glad to to give you more knowledge and share with you more details so thank you very much and and goodbye see you next time online thank you thank you all okay