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so jumping on I could uh introduce our sponsoring company today um C Health analytics which may be a new company to some of you um but they are originally data intelligence and they rebranded the name earlier this year and uh so C Health analytics really specialized in business in business intelligence Advanced analytic Solutions across the global life science in industry they really provide those data Management Solutions that help bring together disperate fragmented complex data bring under control to give business users the insights they need they also provide consultancy activities and sales force Effectiveness P level analytics and other Advanced data management and Associated analytical activities that that their clients require so with a sort of introduction to co health analytics um I should introduce our speakers today and I'm very pleased to have Chris gar and Mark feny who are going to be our presenters today Chris is the politics consultant in the UK here and Christian has worked in the pharmaceutical industry since 2005 he has a deep involvement in Salesforce Effectiveness projects and worked for a number of companies of various sizes these include caner High Health when it was TNS and on the CLI side with Bristol mes squib Christian's role in Co Health analytics is where he heads up the uh the co expert product side of their uh their organization and this delivers those uh Sol and insights for clients through consultative analytics he's strong experience in Quota setting incentive compensation and involvement in report and dasboard designs to clients reporting platforms Chris mathematician by background as well as having a postgraduate diploma in operational research from the University of s Southampton is a life science consultant for health analytics and he's calling in and joining us today from across the pond in the US Mark's area specialities really include project and operational management for commercial effect post analytic analytics applications including hcp targeting patient longitudinal analytics Salesforce ruing and K identification amongst other areas extensive experience in a wide range of life science data including prescriber R and Pharmacy claims data lab data from from theal side and marketing data as well as demographical economic consumer lifestyle data that may be used to segmentation and such like so with that said I'd like to hand out over to Christian and Mark and uh Lord to what they've got to tell us about today to Christian and markone it's Christian here thanks very much for that introduction guy um we'll move on to the onto the the deck now so what we're talk about today is sales force Effectiveness as introduction to the topic so I'm sure most of you are aware SCE Effectiveness or SF um what actually all about it's it's there to ensure that your Salesforce can be as effective as possible given the fact that they are a huge investment for your company heard and this was probably around about 10 years ago actually that um an average sales average sales rep sorry uh around £100,000 in total with all the overheads so a number of those people out in the field you want to make sure that that huge investment is give you the significant return that you need in order to drive your company forward so what we're looking at today is some some tips and tricks some new techniques potentially uh given that the the landscape is changing and C are harder to see so uh we've got a customer Centric approach uh to some of the areas that we're going to um talk about today talk about which areas they are next so we're looking at targeting and segmentation sales sizing and structuring core planning anded Target some of you may have seen closed loop marketing on the um on the on the website we're not going to that because it's still fairly embryonic in that particular area um so we're looking to sort of build our experience in that area and then we'll be able to to share that potentially at a later date so let you know we won't be covering that that today um now to hand over to to mark my colleague in Boston in the US uh start with the uh the targeting section thank Christian and good afternoon everyone uh great to be here I just say before you start Mar sorry um do you want me to run the poll first or we not we straight in good good sh sorry yeah so we we'll we'll run that first poll question now um based on the four topics that we're looking at today thank you okay the poll on your screen there yeah we got the question here uh everyone that's that's based around the topics that we're looking at today so which of these areas are your focus or your client focuses for this year uh multiple choice question so if you can give and and then we'll move on to the uh to the next um do you want at this point mark I think um you know as most most organizations are probably doing U one of these as they're pretty critical for commercial Effectiveness so it'll be interesting to see um what these sign our high priorities sure these are all business critical functions so um I would that that our attendees will focusing on on at least one of them I'm just P now it looks like targeting and segmentation is in the lead so hopefully I will be able to show you the results okay that's that's to see so Target mentation there with with the and only a couple of others so looks like that four four good topics to be to be talking about which is reassuring so very good yep thank you over to you Mark and again good afternoon everyone happy to be here today G to talk about on this segment is account valuation and targeting which pretty critical aspect of Sal Source Effectiveness and what we going to talk about a few things here is kind of going beyond your traditional approaches to Value to accounts and your very much ay there in in the UK and across Europe and even in the United States the current Farmer Market is seeing fewer opportunities to accounts and Healthcare Providers and therefore identifying invting them correctly is of critical importance there's so many uh Physicians or accounts that your source is able to see and you want to be able sure you identify and partise those ingly the traditional approach to valuing accounts has been typically been based on the total prescribing in the therapeutic area or Market IR of that account and certainly you know that that has help from over the years to identify and and value these accounts but um not always the the best approach going forward it is a very simplified approach but fall short on a number of of metrics that we're going to discuss as we move further along within the presentation um and certainly I think we also uh Farm comp need to take into account the product's life cycle uh the stage within the life cycle which is I think is also of critical importance whether you're you're starting out on a launch or you're more of on a decline phase so we talk that as well to the next slide U this is a a chart of kind of the typical product life cycle stage and four uh segments or stages that a product typically Falls in and depending on the AG the promotional efforts of the sales team in a particular will will change focusly at launch stage when a product is just launching that you have approval by agency you're going to have you're going to throw all your reps out there have full coverage have full frequency and typically you want to certainly get at the innovators um out there um large proces are accounts that have u a lot of uh that are willing to driving your product at launch and then as the you know productes and it could be you know six months to 18 months somewhere around that you're going to be you know a lot of have hopefully growth stage again you want to slightly change your focus you want to look at has been ding what accounts have been describing your products and really focus on those loyal customers and then start to identify early adopters as well and we'll talk about early adopters and innovators and whole the dotion sequence in a slide coming up as well and as the product moves along into the T phase you have more of a mat product and it's time to kind of change your focus slightly you want to fine-tune to include profitable targets you potentially fend your market share you want to limit RX loss to competitors if possible and then as move on along the time scale we have a bit of a decline this is where potentially other products are coming onto the market you might be losing exclusive because of generics coming in as well and you typically have have a reduction in your overall marketing promotion efforts at this time so again change Focus based on the product life cycle is important so your product fit in uh to this lifesty uh product legal is pretty important talked about early on you know traditional approach to valuing accounts and and Healthcare Providers has been looking at so how much prescribing has been happening in therapeutic area and you know as I said that's typical approach easy to implement but a number of other potential metrics out there that we look at to what we call a composite score and depending on availability of the data that you have inhouse or by a thirdparty vendor um you can this composite score based on a number of these other metrics for example not only looking at Market RX but certainly looking at has been out in the market for a while you can look at your client brand RX um which is certainly important to identify accounts that are just prescribing your product um spreader is is pretty important those are uh accounts or positions that have a tendency to prescribe level products versus only a small number of products and spreading usually good as uhing accounts are not committed to a single product so potentially you have you have the option or you have the chance to to hook those other accounts with a promotion which if possible product adoption sequence I talked about a little bit and that's really based on the diffusion of Innovations by Evert rers and Ro came up with five different categories of adoption of a product or and those include innovators early adopters early majority majority and L so identifying which of those accounts or or their providers fit into those adoption categories could be also uh very important as well ratio also uh could be important that's the an accounts or physicians's ability to convert script from nrx to TRX so certainly you want to be able to get the conversions uh get those accounts to Contin your product uh phys accounts to stick with a particular portfolio of drugs in the long term so want to have um kind of the Loyalty of those accounts to to write your drugs avoidance is also pretty important in that you want identify accounts that are just writing all drugs uh C certainly that much harder to switch uh those accounts if their or 95% of their portfolio is only generic so if they're there are accounts that are much lower than that U certainly that could go into um uh metrics if if data is available down to the patient level I know it's not always available in in certain markets but at that diagnosed treatment ratio based on patient data could be of critical importance as well so all these different components metrics together coming a composite score um is uh is is a more advanced way of valuing accounts versus just looking at a additional Market RX to you know how do we do this we have all this data we have all we identify the appropriate metrics we want to do the analysis and so we need to to model those all those metrics into a composite score and one of the first things you might want to is normalize or standardize the values in that you might have some metrics that are large some metrics that are small some are raw values some are percentages so standardizing those metrics in one way or another um it could be done know B on uh stand standard deviations and averages or some other standardization and normalization technique to get those in a particular normalized fashion and creating the composite score and what could be of great importance is to weight those metrics individually in thatc might not be the same you could have generic avoidance you know 30% weight you could have RX ability at a 20% rate um and for so depending on kind of the goals of uh your product and the where know ingly could be of importance as well and then once you've identified metric You' metric you've created your composite score um and then typically what's done is desing uh those accounts based on you know equ equal volume of the composite score where you have 10 buckets and each bucket has equal number of composit only fewer Accounts at the higher desiles 18 and tens will have accounts but an equal number of composite scores so those are potentially the accounts that you want to focus on and certainly a call frequency is the next step and and it's not simp as easy as just assigning 36 calls to 10 certainly there's additional analysis that should go into identifying the call frequency per year value to each desile but as an example you've you've dyed all of your accounts into the 10 buckets you might have determined that for desile 10 for example you'll called on or detailed 36 times a year uh desal NES at 24 times a year eights and sevens at 18 times a year and so forth and and additional analysis is usually needed to identify theal calls per year based on the and you know the U this fear of of valuing and targeting Physicians is certainly not static it should be updated you knowly basis perhaps or Bally certainly continuously monitoring your accounts your your targets your accounts looking at the prescribing of accounts certainly some accounts uh might move up or move down over that time period you might haveing Stars if you will that are are writing more uh as time goes on so continually fine-tuning the compos scores potentially adding a different metrics a dropping metrics from the composite score uh and adjust your reach frequency ingly uh over time and again you might be doing this quarterly or semiannually um at leally for certain to make sure that you have the optimal number of targets and the optimal valuing of those targets I think I'm going to uh end right there and uh pass it back to you thanks markting and also some segmentation at the end and I wanted to move on to uh some other segmentation techniques uh there are number of techniques available but want to cover off a couple that um that are particularly pop Mark can you hand control back to me I'm sorry Christian I don't how to do that there we go we go great great okay so everyone we should be on the mation slide now so there's a number of techniques available I just want to cover off a couple that um particularly useful and um fairly fairly easy to execute um and the um in case the Boston Matrix segmentation gives you four four segments and I'm not if anyone's familiar with with the term glad um it's just a an acronym to to to cover off the the four segments grow lead back and develop and how that's how that comes about is by uh by ranking all the practices um and giving based on typically you would want to use market share um potential but there are a number of other metrics that can be used in this particular technique and it works equally well even if you if you do happen to havep level data which I know is very R in the UK um almost across the board but account level data is available be that hospitals be that practices depending on the on the setting of primary or secondary care um data need to be available uh for your own product least uh even if if not for competitors so need to make sure that you you use the available data or that you use something suitable for what you're trying to do uh but in of the technique itself you just ranked on one of your metrics the top half them ones the bottom half giving them twos or A's and B's doesn't really matter uh rank on the other metric uh and perform same exercise so top half and bottom half and what you got then when you concatenate those uh those those values is a simple Matrix which um in a quick time allows you to to see your your key account key Target accounts typically would be the attack accounts where you've got a high market share in this scenario with a high potential uh and you've got your uh the other end of the scale you've got your leave accounts where it's it's advisable probably not to spend too much time or too much focus on those accounts low market share uh they low sales of your own product or Market potential depending on which metric you use and there's there's no chance that they'll actually drive many of your sales so again on the the of not being able to cover all of your accounts you know you don't have that sort of resource especially these days things are more we need to make sure that we've got um a means of of targeting select few or half of the account potentially it's about desile segmentation um which can be based on a number of different metrics so describing data uh Access Data uh influence these data is into the picture in terms of the the htps and again you can you can apply different weightings depending on your desired outcome um and it's also very important to to keep um talking about the the of the data and the the availability of data so certain metrics may not be or may not hold so much water if you like and therefore it's desirable to to downweight those as opposed to sort of prescribing data which um from the NHS these days is the actual um data so that can sort of be upweighted uh ingly um and one thing to touch on here is regarding the the rep's input which is all very important to get their buying and also they're going to have local geographical knowledge that you're not going to be able to to know about in sort of head office exercise um very well sort of go through the motions and um do all the do segmentation based on the data that you've got and sort of think that that's completely robust and 100% accurate but that not out there in the field and there is really important from the two perspectives Al you you can do um sort of more basic segmentation where you're looking at um tears or gold silver bronze thing um where you tend to take the the tops um it really depends on how much resource you've got uh so the reach which as well to the uh to the next section on sales for sizing and structuring i' like to go for the second poll question so thanks for putting that up there Ali U so this question we're talking about within yours and your client's current SF processes with the the biggest challenges so we've got four different answers there or sorry three different answers there all of the above or none of the above um you can uh vote now and U we'll just leave that open for for a few moments in let people make their selections I just give that another 10 seconds and they'll be see those results okay yeah there's a few couple of people still voting but I think we've probably got everyone I will CL and then we'll just have to wait for the seconds for it cater with this momentary I don't we one's votes there I think we sort of caught a few people unaware popping that poll up and so um but we've got you know probably about half the the responses or a bit more than that maybe yeah there we go hopefully you can see those now yeah again interesting to see um so that the highest answer there fairly L size but um eight out of the 33 have gone with inhouse Resorts so not actually having the uh the time to to unate these exercises to the degree that's that's desired I guess um of there's other priorities that they get in the way and um we're very familiar with that so I hand back over to Mark now uh to cover off sales force sizing and structuring um to you mark thanks Christian and yeah certainly you know that poll um I think we're very well aware of of work indry that uh to to do everything uh so having the in resources certainly a challenge um talk a little bit here about Salesforce sizing and and structuring and you know there's there's many reasons to to restructure your Salesforce you know do you do it and why do you do it some examples up here of when and why you might want to restructure your sales for certainly um if to a market and you have a new product launch you you need to identify um the right targets and and then the rights for your your Salesforce to to Market that product that new product as about earlier and the the life ccle or stages life cycle stage of the product you know more mature products um you might want to De your promotional efforts and potentially downsize your sales forces uh other change in Market conditions whether new products come to the market um um might uh be to D size your surf Force ingly or Acquisitions um so forth so the potentially a number of of times uh during your product life cycle when or your company might want you know create a new Salesforce or modif Salesforce um so why do you want to restructure you know apply Advanced analytics to achieve optimal results as we talked about just using kind of old hat methodologies identifying new ways using Advanced analytics C lining your sales capacity with Market potential uh oping your your sales forces based on workload increas efficiency and and reduce travel time costs which is critical um being able to Target the most beneficial accounts for the success of your brand and certainly right siiz in the Salesforce whether that's increasing decreasing or maintaining the number of sales reps and often the case if you have a specialized product that requires a specialized Salesforce so in addition to maybe your primary care Salesforce having a specialized Salesforce or Hospital based Salesforce U the product also uh would be a good reason why you might want to or re your sales force of Salesforce restructuring um you want to have work balance each sales rep has roughly the same workload same potential and again that workload can be based on a number of of metrics it it it can be based on Market AR could be based on that composite metric that we talked about um certainly you know work balance is is important it allows for coverage of clients and Prospects Market penetration it improves team morale if everybody has kind of an equal field if you will U Market potential balance is also Prime objective valuations on similar terms earning potentials are equalized you know it's more of an acceptance by reps when when all the rep kind of a market potential balance travel efficiency is certainly uh very important as well you're having less windshield time uh which results in more ph- to- face selling time of the Reps certainly you want your reps to be uhing not spending a lot of time traveling and also certain reducing costs when you have have travel efficiency U minim minimizing disruption is also pretty important um reps have maintained uh strong client relationships with their accounts and you want to minimize that disruption you want to be able to keep you know your good reps and your and your good client relationships intact U if at all possible only results in higher customer satisfaction and retention and kind of lower transition cost now when you when you're really increasing your your Salesforce you twofold or threefold certainly it might be difficult to to me the disruption but at a cost it's ideal if that's possible so the basic objective sales source structuring and know down to the data certainly and compiling and integrating multiple data sources is probably the most difficult part of of the type of analysis and certainly a number of different data sources available out there that have a number of different metrics that you could use uh part of your sees for size anding project um we talked about gather the account level RX data again uh in the United States and other countries level data might be available um certainly if you have an existing Salesforce you want to look at your current targets make again making sure that you potentially min miniz minimizing thetion of those targets if there are any uh accounts um that should be called on you want to incorporate no call and certainly for exting Salesforce you want to look at your current repor and if possible you know redes redefining and restructuring your Salesforce to kind of keep those reps in place again to minimize cost for having to relocate sales representatives not always possible but um if if doable certainly would go a long way to to the m the organization to kind of minimize the the r movement again colleting all the data um up front is a very critical part of a s size and structure uh project and making sure you have all the data sources available before you before you commend the project the typ four steps to uh doing sourze project and that first precept the account evaluation that we talked about earlier in the presentation is certainly probably one of the most critical aspects of the methodology and that you'll be able to identify and value the account appropriately and then determine accounts to Target so again that's that's critical def defining the preset process of account valuation and segment aneous Christian talk about as well there four kind of big steps that we'll we'll talk here the scenario planning optimization ter alignment and the formal review throughout all of these we're looking at the data or applying potentially some Advanced analytics to come up with a delivery of what those Source SI and structure should look like Steps Now The Source Point and is critical this is where we're defining several scenarios based upon the input meas so we're looking at things like number of accounts per work measure or your composite score Your Mark per your desile your composite score work work the amount client RX that you have per desile uh calls for desile again that's that's pretty important to perform analysis to determine the number of detail calls that should be associated with each Sile per year again something else that need to be considered um whether it's uh you're calling on counts you know six times a day or seven times or eight times a day how many days week if it's a week how many weeks per year typically somewhere between you know 1700 and 2,000 uh work hours per year per rep has has a rough the math to determine that so you know that all goes into kind of inputs uh and certainly if there's certain Specialties U that just s in um specialty Salesforce or the primary care Salesforce you want to take that into consideration and control how manys are you are you thinking about having how many managers how many regional managers go into account as well so identify all these input scenarios and then through um your planning come up with an output measures which is uh the goal so put measures would be things like total territories that we're going to end up with the work for territory coverage the RX brand coverage the number of accounts to Target number of accounts per territory um can run several different scenarios with the input meas up with you know five six seven eight different scenarios um that you then provide for further review U to go on to the next stage page is the territory optimization St and that's where we identify a scenario or two you know you might have def find six or eight different scenarios and then through falis whether it's on budget or other considerations is bringing those down to one two perhaps three stos where then you're going to run through a ter optimization model and you know there's a number of U software applications uh both in-house and by third party vendors that have optimization models and then these models typically um will work on a postal code level or an account level for example so your your data will be aggregated to that level of geography running through the model um typically will balance uh the post codes uh get up to the territory level so you'll have balanced workload so equal number of calls per rep per year and again we talked about minimizing over overall travel time which is important and typically you want to be able to find Optimal centers again existing salce you might take into account where your currently live it's a brand new sales force it's This Clean Slate if if you will so the the model can be where is the best location for service the within that territory and so we talked about minimizing disruption which is of uh equal importance as well um you know the models out there typically you know in advanced mathematical models and they're analyzing millions of gey to territory combinations to come up with the optimal scenario and also is of importance if you can take into account the Road and Highway networks U of geographies as well it's of critical importance so the at the end of this territory optimization stage we have you know one two or three different optimizations that assign either the account the geographies to uh X number of uh sales territories on to the the step three here is where we're taking that solution and that's typically 80% solution through the territory optimization phase and then we're doing more of a uh a REV that optimization and a territory alignment where we're making manual as moving accounts slightly removing codes slightly B on existing relationships or fine tuning if you will get to 90% solution where now we're ready to do theep which is a final review and this is typically we want to get not only your list involved and the operations teams involved but it's a great idea to get your your fi managers involved as well and as you alluded to earlier you know the field managers are on the street they know counts they know their geographies very very well and to the field manager's input um be very helpful not they redesigned everything but gives them an over to review it makes changes having an interactive session with the managers where they can sit in front of the computer and look at the maps and look at the spreadsheets and that makes sense that doesn't make sense and spend some time to review it and get their buying I think is of critical importance as well and rating the maps and Theory files the replication files U get your to a 98% solution you you'll never have 100% solution there's always going to be changes that happen throughout the year that you're tweaking territories and you're tweaking accounts but this Pro kind of gets you to a very good well- defined Force size and structure uh plan and U since you I've also noticed a questions come in from from one of our attendees around tools that can be used I think that was in relation to the resizing oring and structuring our preference is for a piece of software called tactician in that particular space that we've got a lot of experience with uh in fact Mark's got a huge amount of experience with with that particular software and and indeed with with the company so can everyone still hear me I just someone's mentioned that the audio's gone alen can you hear me yes I think sometimes it does just cut in and out for individuals so it should come back in a minute I'll I'll leave that one then yeah um yeah so T is one that we that we favor um it's got some really powerful algorithms that really help to to ensure maximum efficiency including drive time um so you get all of the contributing factors into the mix that Mark covered off in that last section so I move about sales incentive targets um as you're probably aware that they're used as one of the key motivating factors for fased employees uh we've been talking about throughout uh the uh the webinar they need to be joined up with the the brand strategy uh and that was likely to be related to the the place in the products life cycle um so uh that again talking about availability of data um launch you're not going to have any back data by definition um going to want to be able to use other other metrics or um uh values in order to you with that so about sales intented Target setting there could be growth expectation uh typically for a period so a quarter or a trimester or a six-month period it could be around capturing market share as your brand strategy pen the market at launch uh new accounts or certain value or territory level so all of these different uh different as well as um they should they should be a stretch for field-based users equally they need to be realistic and Equitable and you want to make sure that everyone's got the same possibility of reaching their of their um their target value the same earning capacity is really important the Cycles here again if we're looking at a launch brand that then typically you're going to want to use a shorter cycle you can get more more periods in the year you as you press you're going to see what's happening each particular territory where you're getting that penetration uh can make more more changes uh for a mature brand you you should be more confident in your target setting by nature of the fact that you've got all that back data uh and the uh the sales are more predictable in in most cases now you taking consideration the exercise takes in terms of you're going to do this for all of your Brands so if you've got multiple brands in this it's going to be a larger effort at the same time you don't be in my experience you don't want to be setting targets uh for for 12 month period uh the outset because you're not going to have that certainty around the uh months in the year and um also can be important to to hook the to to L the Target in with the the latest projection or latest estimate or or budgeting processes that are done by Finance I'll come on to that a little later um to take into consideration the data that's available in terms of the periodicity so um if you wait longer then you're going to have more recent data that you can use to set your targets for the following uh cycle or or trimester at the same time you may then actually be into that trimester and second and actually releasing the targets or even two months into the period Which is far from ideal for for a number of reasons you got to get that balance right um and make sure that um that you get the T communicated to the field Force as soon as possible while the data the DAT that's available making sure that you you get that balance techniques that um I found particularly successful over the years uh is is based on this seven approach uh through those those steps there so the the first step is to to validate the latest uh budget or latest projection estimate from from Finance at that stage that can involve um going backwards and forwards a few times with the uh with the field with with this team um you got to understand the assumptions that have been used and the market factors uh launches new indications genericization uh in my experience I've seen when the come through from finance and there's a jump or a steep Decline and you're seeing an increase in sales but once you ratify that in terms of uh what's actually happening in the marketplace you may find out that there's a new indication for your brand which You're Expecting then to uh to have a much more significant increase there could be um new brand being launched a new competitor brand which is anticipated to to take a significant amount of market share uh and case you may be looking for a looking at a decline so make that you get th those bits rified uh because that that starting number is really important to to be 100% accurate or as accurate as possible into those assumptions you then P together all the all the back data uh for your own product and for a market by by territory so in ideal scenario you will have that back data uh in this particular use case that we're assuming that that's available uh and that you can can Define your Market uh ingly based on um on indications that that you have your brand uh and the other brands that are in that Marketplace you then Cate your kpis and metrics and these could be growth they could be market share um it could be market share growthful one to use uh and then another one which is headr uh which I always explain by saying it's the the difference between your own product sales and the the territory the the market sales in absolute terms so um in that you could have market share of 10% on two territories if one territory is a million pound territory then got 900k of head there uh in 1000 pound territory you've only got 900 of hrum so extreme example but um uh identifies there whated is important the next step is indexing these territories against the national value or the national average um to make sure that you uh you got those um index values and and state five you need to normalize and I think Mark talked about this earlier in terms of the territory signning and structuring you need to make sure that each of the kpi is is not over contributing towards towards the the final index um by uh by normalizing or standardizing in in some way um you can also um weight certain metrics more if you want to we want to make sure that you've not got a metric that's that's overweighted um just by for incidence average of all these index values um across uh AC sorry across all the kpis per territory and that will give you a growth expectation ranking um and looking at the national growth expectation guide that should be roundabout in the middle and then you need to set youres about that about that Central value uh with with the highest growth and the lowest growth uh set ingly so for example with a 10% National growth it might be appropriate to set sort of 4 15 at the top end 6 or seven at the bottom end but the that will vary based on a number of factors um but in my that those sort of values will um will will go with good targets after after step seven that gives you part of the targets and then there can be a number of uh of uh toing and throwing inter internally within the organization in terms of um M tweaks with local territory knowledge so of course all of this like saying earlier all of this calculations is based on Purely on data the the external factors which are um known more by the Reps or or the RBM important to to get into the mix um twe those targets and finalized across the business and communicated out to the Reps who are on the street you need to actually hit those targets to the end of of of what we talk about today thanks for your time and do we have any questions there thank you very much Mr Chris and Mark um if there's any questions if you can use the Q&A um app on the right hand side of your of your of your screen and just type your question in we'll pick the question up and answer it in the meantime um I guess this goes both out both Chris and Mark is is when setting up a new um scheme and then taking that into into into um for sizing and structuring what's time you looking at there for for setting up a a full sort of program around a a new product launch for example certainly this is Mark uh thanks guy for that question yeah you know it really depends um on the complexity of your project um and I think as I talked alluded to earlier the the availability of of your data sources sometimes thing all the available data sources whether they have to be purchased by a third party vendor or if they're in house data sources you know could take the longest so you might want to you know a couple weeks for actually identifying and securing the data source um and perhaps a couple more weeks to do your Advanced analytics and modeling on that and then you prepare for the uh four sides and structure which again could take you know a few more weeks throughout those four stages so know you knowwhere probably between four and eight weeks depending on on the size U project uh available data sources um and getting uh approval uh throughout the organization uh can take as well so all that should be considered Christian here with to Target setting much the same story with um with respect to actually putting that data together it's really important that that data is as possible and is cleansed and that you you're not sort of using the wrong data and have to then go back and the access itself of of running the indexing and the uh and the scoring to get your um your rankings of growth expectation is not overly onerous um if you the um strategy or the the technique but preparing of the data in the first place is is really um critical so in in terms of Target setting it can be it can be performed week but at the end of the process the sort of toing and throwing with managers internally to get things finalized uh experience can can be the uh the thing takes the longest you mentioned um representative engagement in the the the the process um and people see record into into Fel Force design Target lists um U Etc as very very important people have a view that that the rep input can devalue the process what's your experience around those two sort of uments on either side certainly you know I think in our experience you know involvement um is probably you know it it could kind of the pro the project going longer than than it needs to be and uh but so more of the the management involvement I think is more of critical importance whether it be at the district or the regional level um so that's probably more important and critical than actually having rep involvement um you know rep's a rep's going to their territory and their geography very well but a manager is going to know uh you know 10 or 20 reps geography very well so having the input more at the higher level of the sales uh management level is probably certainly more important and more critical than at the rep level Christian anything else to add to that down to the the the company culture um as to whether or not that that's um sort of to have that rep imput but I would say that I think it's important because they the ones that working out in the field and you need to get their buying and that really is one of those things with with their that that automatically guarante almost guarantees buying if they feel they're part of the process and they've not just been had these um these Target or these Target lists imposed on them um and also it's you need to recognize that that their input is is not just uh they they've got experience they've been out there they they know certain uh customers may not be able to be seen you know uh it's almost impossible certain customers if you sort of create a Target list where you you say well these are the targets and you take into consideration those other uh softer metrics if you like then you know you can set yourself up for a fall at the outset I've seen there's another question come in here um regarding kpis and metrics for for incentive Target setting so um as I mentioned I'm is to use sales growth and over two different periods so you've got sort of period to show you what's going on more recently as well as uh the long Trend which could proba based on mat on mat um so growth um then market share very very important to use again you could use market share over two different periods and market share growth U typically will be over over two different Cycles so how they grown from one cycle to the next and then um the hrum as well is is one to take into consideration the it's say that when you are doing your indexing and normalizing you should make sure that your metrics are organized such that the index is be uh correct so if you got uh you need to sort them out so that you've got growth leading to to growth or and high market share leading to to lower growth so you don't to be adversely pushing somebody for for achieving High Market or for delivering market share growth in those scenarios then you can be that should sort of downweight your growth expectation for the next cycle um in order to to temper your your current growth which will typically increase your growth expectation for the next cycle so that you get those those round the right way so you've not got conf icting metrics thank you very much thank you very much we have hit the bottom of the hour and we're nearly at half past um I would like to just take this chance to to say thank you to everybody that's joined the call I hope you found that very very informative um if you want to follow up with either Mark or Christian um please feel free to do so um Mark Christian I'd like to thank you so much for your time today and thaning sey Etc and uh I draw an end to the meeting so to everybody out there have a wonderful Friday have a fantastic weekend and thank you very much for attending thanks you thank you bye