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one of the more disconcerting headlines yesterday in the Sunday papers of the mail on Sunday uh which uh had its big headline now the brexit retreat begins uh it revealed that talks are already going on between K st's crew the labor government and Brussels uh with a view uh to relaxing freedom of movement in other words uh softer borders and lower trade barriers uh so uh the thing is is if we get that from uh Brussels they won't give it to us for free we will have to seed power to them so uh anything that we ask of Brussels we will end up having to seed something to them uh so uh really I guess the question I'd like to ask all of you is is this the kind of brexit you had in mind closer ties with Europe uh more freedom of movement across our borders is that what you had in mind are pleased that the labor government is doing that because it seems to me they're negotiating away the brexit the people of this country voted for 0344 499 1,000 uh Boris Johnson Benedict said uh warned us that the UK is on the road to surom in other words we're going to seed more and more power to Brussels and in return uh they're going to make us obey more and more of their rules which isn't very good is it to which I say well thanks for everything Boris yeah wouldn't didn't have to be this way but you just had to be you didn't you you know you didn't quite give us the brexit that we wanted you didn't quite oversee the conservative government that we wanted and you really annoyed a lot of people we probably wouldn't have a labor government right now if it hadn't been uh for some several quite poor decisions from Boris Johnson uh so that's what I have to say on that as to the subject of closer Union with Europe I mean k stor and Angela rener have been unequivocal that we won't be rejoining that's the key thing we won't be rejoining but they've not actually ruled out many other things and we saw during the London mayal election um Sadi Khan trailed the idea and you can often spot things that they might end up using later at a national level he trailed the idea of saying well we want a better agreement with young people being able to move between London and the rest of Europe because you know we're young and dynamic and you know all those buzzwords I mean it's it's it's one of those things that people think sounds nice ah yes my my young children when they're of 18 or between the ages of 18 and 30 they can go to Europe and they get get a job it never worked that way people from the UK did not move on mass to Europe to work because there are not the same scale of jobs there as there are here you know you go to Milan you do not find very many young English people you come to London there are tens of thousands of Italians there's a reason for that it's not that is not something that benefits the UK particularly because also we're not talking about highly skilled migrants here we're talking about young that is to say cheap labor it is about suppressing wage and ultimately about coming into London again they're not going to be moving to Middlesboro or or Hull or places like that it's about coming to London maybe Manchester increasing the value of property there because there's more competition suppressing the wages it's not necessarily a good thing there are aspects where we do probably need closer cooperation with Europe defense is almost certainly one it's interesting that James Healey went straight to uh Ukraine uh for negotiations with Vladimir zilinski the the the new defense secretary that's the sort of thing I think everybody could say actually yes fair enough we do need more of that but it is it's that question isn't it it's what is it that we're signing up to as part of a package because everybody knows Europe will take its pound of Flesh it always does and the thing that I and I will never understand this the obsession with wanting closer ties with Europe Europe is a dead continent economically it is doing worse than we are it is only being boyed by Islands economic figures which are massively inflated because it's a tax Haven it produces very little it has no innovation even less than us I don't understand what the obsession is rather than innovate ourselves deregulate ourselves and compete with the rest of the world so that we drag Europe up why is it that we are the ones that have to go cap in hand back to Europe and say well we want the closer ties no they should want closer ties with us if we made the most out of brexit which of course we haven't and we're not going to under s St let's be clear because he's a europhile yeah and the problem uh with coing up to Brussels and say oh you know if we have softer borders more relaxed movement uh of people across the borders uh you know uh we we will'll have to take orders from Brussels from the EU but we'll have none of the benefits of membership so we'll have the worst of all worlds uh as you say I would have thought that what we should do is just carry on as a an independent solo unit but that doesn't seem to be the way that KIA remotely looks at the world everything has to be uh you know sit down talked to our European friends Etc doesn't it the problem is though that was the case for so many many members of the Tory party as well actually they couldn't fathom the concept of working without the confines of Europe that's the great irony of all of this is actually the conservative party was the most pro-european party of all of them you know the old school left was much more euroskeptic than the conservatives were and that's why ultimately it's one of the many reasons we now have a labor government because people turned around to the conservatives and said we don't trust you to fulfill your promises on brexit on the border on Whatever It Is Well now are going to have to give somebody else a go and it's these people who we don't actually trust that's reflected in the fact that their vote share barely moved but what other options do people have to vote for it's a really bad situation I hope he sticks to his promise I hope he actually listens to what people say which is that we don't want to rejoin the European Union don't listen to those siren calls and be very cautious about what it is you do strike deals with and uh you know I wonder when he says oh we're not going to rejoin the EU uh doesn't mean to say we won't necessarily rejoin the Customs Union once you're in the Customs Union you have to do what you're told and you're the sort of person Benedict who will know the answer to this question uh but uh I'm going to ask you lest you're in any doubt as to uh the direction of travel in terms of our new government uh and its feelings about brexit its feelings about not being a member of the EU uh do you know how many members of Kia's cabinet uh voted for brexit I do not because I don't actually know everybody that's in the cabinet um I can tell you I was going to say zero I was going to take every single member of kier's cabinet did one slip through that I missed they voted to remain so you know this is this is really significant I mean rishy and Boris Boris tried to sort of get all sides of the argument into his cabinet so did rishy to an extent there is no other side of the argument in Kia st's cabinet every single one of them is staunch remainer so it's obvious where we're heading isn't it yeah it's it's closer Union and what I would say is again this sort of thing it does give the conservatives and reform a Lifeline actually if they can be forensic about these things highlight to people what is being done as it's being done and tell people look they're going back on what they promised that gives your a skepticism on the right way back in it will keep it alive it's what those parties choose to do with it and right now you couldn't look at the conservatives and say oh yes I trust them to get their out together anytime soon and reform they have no track record they have no real infrastructure it's just Five Guys in the pub right now that's all it is and as much as I might like them that doesn't mean that they're about to become the opposition party they were a very long way from that they're going to be five noisy guys in the pub but uh you know I I suppose they're apart from you know parliamentary discourse their impotence will run will ring loud and you know but that's that's the same for any party that's not in power so I think reform will make life difficult virtually for everyone but certainly the labor government but will it make any difference with a guy with 171 seat majority no it won't no