Streamline Sales Due Diligence for Shipping with airSlate SignNow

How to create outlook signature

[Music] foreign [Music] but I have a very short time with you today it's even less than the previous panel so I want to use every minute because we realize the chat all of a sudden you know it's like 20 questions so we want to get to as many of them as possible so my name is Bonnie link I'm a professional collector of questions as you saw no yesterday and today and it's a tremendous honor to be here today um you know I'm a child immigrant to this country and I couldn't help but you know as I'm here in New York and I was thinking the other day you know the the poem that's associated with the Statue of Liberty you know give me your hungry give me what is it give me your tire your poor your huddle mass is yearning to be free and I just thought maybe she was writing about human rights due diligence about Maritime right work in Maritime because the poem instinctively um kind of focused on the misery of that life at sea but also at the same time the rest of the poem talk about this this dream you know of something better and I think Maritime sector for a lot of the seafarers who work um is that is that double-edged reality so without further Ado I'm joined today by a very distinguished panel and I hope in a conversation with them we can draw out some of these points following from panel one and then we go in briefly into ports and then we Zoom back out again into transport and Logistics so all that in 55 minutes so let me introduce my panelists we have Martha calling in from Germany hi Martha so Martha Sullivan she is the um go un Global compact ocean manager she also leads the just transition Maritime task force working with IMO io on these very important issues we have Christopher Saunders calling in from Singapore hi that looked that doesn't look like night time in Singapore but it's very nice to see you Christopher is here today as the chief product officer for rightship there was a very long question on rightship in the chat so you can take that question straight away rightship provides due diligence service on all the issues we talked about previously in the in the first panel and he will talk us through some of the tools that they have developed on human rights due diligence in this area and then we have Doug nindstrom he is the associate director for North America for impact and um I don't feel like I need to introduce you because I think you know a lot of people in this room in your previous capacity as um working with Walmart to push for the responsible recruitment agenda so it is absolutely an honor to have this panel and let's start straight away I would like to start you know we're in the post-covet world right but I think Martha for your presentation um no for your remarks I think it's important that we go back to to the times of covet right and um so you can talk to us about what what was the crew change crisis what were the circumstances that drove the U.N Global compact in collaboration with the office of High Commissioner for human rights the IMO to look at producing some type of guidance to help um to help us deal with the challenge unprecedented challenges so Martha if I could just give you the floor for the next 10 minutes and we can do a quick q a back and forth thank you Martha certainly well thank you so much for that very kind introduction and of course my apologies a copy of you in person and if it's a bit brighter it's because I'm currently in London and not Germany where it's very hot so great great to see you all and so yes great question and and let's start let's start from from that from the perspective of covered and I think you know as with many sectors and industries covert shot a light on a number of things that weren't going well in our societies and I think in this case and it's no different so just to recap what was happening during the pandemic you know as we're all very aware as it affected all of us in some way shape or form there are a number of travel bans government imposed travel bans and of course this had a huge impact on seafarers um who of course are often from different nationalities and having to travel from from different ports to one another and and at the heart at the sort of high points of such of the crew change crisis around up to three hundred thousand fairs were actually impacted and by that I mean couldn't get off the ship but also couldn't get on the ship as well and so this was really sort of negatively impacting their sort of basic human and labor rights and as Mark already mentioned in our sort of first panel was also infringing on aspects of the maritime labor convention including for instance being deprived of your annual leave and but also other kinds of sort of fatigue physical and mental health issues and and of course um critically working beyond the terms agreed in in their employment agreements I think some seafarers were even on board for 17 months and of course under the maritime labor convention it should be around 11 months so really you know lots of infringement happening in that respect now we know of course as I already mentioned and that you know a lot of these travel bans Etc were coming from government so they were really being you know Led Led from that kind of you know political perspective and of course as we no under the UN guiding principles of business and human rights you know it is ultimately down to governments who have the core responsibility to protect human rights and they should have done more and we know that and however of course companies businesses across the supply chain under our U.N guiding principles also have you know the responsibility to respect human rights and what we were increasingly seeing at un Global compact but also more generally in the ecosystem was that not only were governments not upholding their responsibilities with respect to letting seafarers on and off um board and but a number of charterers and cargo owners were increasingly exerting pressure along the supply chain across the other direction and essentially saying that they didn't want crew changes because crew changes took an additional two weeks and of course they're driven by um you know um sort of time constraints and they were actually exerting pressure on the shipping Community not to undertake these routine crew changes so at that moment we really you know recognized that there was a real need to undertake some kind of business advocacy and education to ensure that that kind of additional pressure from the supply chain chain wasn't already exacerbating a you know a humanitarian crisis so that is basically the backdrop to our human Global Compact and Office of the High Commissioner for human rights is um what we call our call to business action which we launched and essentially called on companies across the global supply chain to conduct human rights due diligence in this um you know in this issue instance of Crisis and of course to utilize their leverage on governments and other Maritime transport providers but interestingly you know as the UN we love we love a call to action and a joint statement but one of the sort of feedbacks that we got from a number of companies was well you know how do we do that would how do I conduct human rights due diligence like what does this actually look like and we really realized that there was very little awareness if at all across you know really large um companies cargo owners who one would have thought would have this on their radar so we realized that that kind of call to action wasn't enough and we actually had to kind of get into the nitty-gritty of what the Practical actions would actually be both for A charterer and A Cargo owner it's actually undertake human rights due diligence um in this specific instance and so that was kind of how our human rights due diligence tool was born that you already sort of made reference to and it really does try and outline practical actions that cargo owners and charterers can take you know both from and Francesca already mentioned this and the great case of TGs air Brands you know how they then went out and liaised with their transport Partners sought written assurances from their suppliers that their expectations with respect to MC Fair's rights were being upheld of course liaising with the international transport workers Federation so what we try to do in this tour and and perhaps have a moment to talk a little bit more about in another round is really try and I think it was the first sort of go at this and to outline practically what cargo owners and charterers needed to do in this situation and as I said I think the kind of key takeaway as such from that was it just was not on the radar of so many companies before and of course as we know shipping and of course the wider transport Logistics network is an integral part of every company supply chain and of course under the human guiding principles you have a responsibility to workers along that supply chain so covert really Shone a light on that and I think you know with incoming legislation and things that we're going to talk about I'm sure in another round this is only going to get more heightened well thank you so much for that um brief overview Martha I would urge everyone to read the guidance because it is very well written and moreover I was really struck and I my um colleague Francesca mentioned this as well it is backed by a very well written case study on why TGF got involved in looking at crew change right so you spoke of those very low awareness but there was a case study of a of a brand who was very honest very open about how they were starting with zero they didn't know the issue but they were com they they felt they you know upon hearing all these stories of like you know they call it a humanitarian disaster in the making a lot of mentoring suffering on the seafarers who were stranded and couldn't get off the vessels that they wanted to do something so they started with zero they were quite honest about where they where they started so can I ask you like how do we get more companies to embark on this journey knowing that you know the starting point is zero but that is okay that is where we're from yeah so I think there's a that's a really good question and as always there are a number of sort of push and pull factors so of course we have to start in some respect with with legislation and I'm sure as many in the room are more aware than probably I am in some respects there is of course an increasing rise in sort of supply chain due diligence legislation coming out of Europe coming out the US coming out other parts of the world of course in Europe you have another challenge of more of a patchwork approach to different kinds of legislations but with the new um with the new um EU corporate sustainability sustainability due diligence directive nice and short uh word there and of course there will be um Extended requirements under EU law to look at your broader value chain and of course that does include shipping and that does include Logistics so they'll certainly be more an impetus from that kind of legislative angle to actually Undertake and some of these sort of Human Rights due diligence or processes that are so needed dead and of course as Mark mentioned on the other side of course accelerated by you know legislation there is an increasing demand from Financial actors and the sort of broader Community to undertake better ESG practices and of course this kind of Human Rights due diligence within Supply chains Falls within that radar and I'm not gonna in any way contradict Mark I think what he said is true but we do know what the S is to an extent and it's human rights due diligence we know how to handle it we know what the processes are we know how to undertake a risk assessment so yes of course what the s's will depend but we do have the measures and the processes in place and we shouldn't use that as an excuse not to do anything about the S and I think as I said there is increasing focus on this and I said we do have the tools and to enable us and to do that so you know as always it'll be a combination of you know legislation but also you know actors wanting to do better with respect to their ESG practices also and to support and gaining new kinds of finances like sustainable finance and all these kinds of things and I think one thing I'll just end on in that respect but I'm here to support what Mark mentioned about you know what we see in other sectors is that leaders in sustainability we want to go beyond compliance right compliance is like the Baseline and you know we're now looking at what do I do in addition to what I should do and I think we need to think about that in the context of the maritime labor convention because you know yes that is the Baseline that's the minimum standard but actually what should we be doing beyond that and what should leaders in sustainability in the S be doing to in you know to increase an add-on to what is only really a minimum standard thank you Martha so I have one more minute so I want to just quickly add the question of what else is out there besides the U.N Global compact guidance on human rights due diligence for maritime are you aware of to help companies who are embarking on this aspect of their human rights due diligence process yeah that's a great question so I think um of course I'm sure Francesca has mentioned this throughout the institute for human rights and business and the sustainable shipping initiative have their code of conduct and of course their whole network um who were you know who I would say have added you know fantastically to the Baseline which really was just a covered related human rights due diligence tool so that really is um as I see it you know the the thing to help as things stand of course um we know and this is you know you know mentioned you know throughout the discussion that that kind of collaboration and multi-stakeholder coalitions and working groups really is so helpful and important because you know we are all learning and I think we'll be learning even more so with respect to you know and being able to uphold some of these new requirements that are coming the way to many the way for many companies so engaging you know I have to plug the Euro Global compact of course NRP learning groups on decent work you know these are all things that will really help um you know to move the needle and one one thing I would also add is um you know I'm really impressed and I'm not just saying this because Mark's here with the work of the international transport workers Federation in this you know in this field when when you now look at the next stage of TGs Brand's Journey they've actually now partnered with the ITF and they are now actually engaging in an mou whereby the ITF is doing um you know a basically a due diligence assessment across their entire Logistics chain and obtaining verifiable data for the company to make sure that they are mitigating and responding to any risks so that is a really you know we know that unions and workers are one of the most important stakeholders when it comes to Human Rights due diligence so to see that really that leadership and almost activist position and opportunity to partner and collaborate with the ITF to actually gain the data that you need I think is really really a reassuring and they're also looking at this with respect to Road Transport and of course other all the other sectors that they cover so partnering using active stakeholders and of course and you know engaging in in multi-stakeholder coalitions um or where I would recommend starting wow great so um you set up the scene really well for our next panelists um thank you so much Martha so Christoph um you're calling in from Singapore and I think you can speak about um this this collaboration that Martha talked about um you've been working with ihrb and um you know on this assessment code of conduct going above um what's listed in the maritime labor convention so over to you thank you for having me join um I think yes yeah lots of great uh work going on in this space um I think Francesca there were some slides we were going to run through I'm not sure if they're available uh in the for the audience though at the moment or not but um essentially what we were going to run through was was a little bit about one of those collaborations so the work we've done with SSI and ihib around that code of conduct uh on seafarers rights um but I was going to start maybe recognizing that a lot of the audience is sort of new to Maritime yeah just sort of introducing rightship and the work we do do um so it's we're the the world's leading third-party Maritime due diligence organization uh we were actually set up by by PHP ryota and Cargill to to manage the due diligence requirements of themselves and we've been going sort of 22 years in in that space um what's I think really interesting with road chip is is the people within the organization so uh we've probably got enough X seafarers working within the business to to crew uh two or three uh container vessels for example uh I'm an ex-mariner myself so we bring that sort of domain uh expertise and knowledge and understanding of what's really going on onboard the vessels and uh we couple that with the sort of data and the information that some of the panelists earlier in the session talks about so uh there's a wealth of information out there in terms of what state Control Data uh information on incidents that take place in the industry that can lead and give you information around crew well-being factors that can be a trigger in that uh also physical inspections of the vessels and sales and as many parties doing these and we conduct our own uh across vessels and again that gives you a really good opportunity where you're seeing first hand uh the conditions on board the vessel um so we bring that all together in terms of a digital platform where that sort of insight and intelligence can be leveraged um Francesca I think we can move on to the next slide so we're just going to sort of introduce um that sort of collaborative work we did with um with SSI and that was around the the code of conduct and and the self-assessment tool itself and I think really that links into what Mark introduced around the maritime labor convention uh and the fact that it's really a minimum standard and the the working group we had we really looked at this and looked at what more can be done in the space uh for welfare and crew well-being um and with that we look to sort of craft up a sort of best practice guide essentially for question boners and operators to refer to in terms of those next steps they wanted to take to to improve the livelihood of the crew they were employing and that looks across a range of areas but it allows them to sort of make a gap analysis and to then look at ways to continually improve uh year on year and increasingly now we're one and a half years into that initiative um the the data that that then presents to us I think is now becoming increasingly valuable to to Charters and cargo owners and Brands uh in terms of giving that Insight in in terms of those vessels and companies that you may be doing business with so if we go on to the next slide we've got a few just very high level stats in terms of uh the data that we've collected so far and and the uh the companies that have contributed so on the left of the slide there we've got the sort of um the key key areas which I think will resonate with with everyone uh today and particularly uh the fair terms of employment so that very much looks at uh the recruitment uh policies uh forced Labor uh the payment of fees but also uh goes beyond that in terms of basic intermediate and advanced levels of best practice in this space um in terms of submissions we're seeing really good traction uh across the industry in in this first year and a half uh we've got 270 uh sort of document of compliance orders for the vessels so these are the the owners and operators that really have influence in terms of the safety improve uh welfare standards on both those vessels so that's representing nearly 7 000 vessels uh and and then we sort of estimate that that probably is a coverage at around a quarter of a million seafarers when you take into account crew changes and rotation onboard those vessels so I think really great progress um and I think what's important to highlight at this stage is that this is all from owners and operators wanting to to take that step to improve the standards on board the vessels this is a voluntary self-assessment to to look at their current practices and and to to use the tool as ways to improve and of course if we leverage uh what Ben spoke about in terms of the power of cargo owners and charterers to really start to increase the pressure on on owners and operators I think we can see uh contributions to to initiatives like this and many others picking up uh because there really is that power in the hand of the cargo Roland and we've seen that you know certainly from rightship side in other areas in terms of safety and sustainability that um putting in place in in terms of childhood parties requirements it is very effective and it does Drive change in the industry um Francesco we can move on this next slide we just uh talk about a little bit in terms of how right check can help and and I guess around sort of increasing transparency of this so we're really excited to be launching a a free uh tool where uh any company can can register sign up and and have access in in the coming month in terms of uh any vessel or company in the world you could you could search them you can look at the crew welfare status in terms of whether they have completed the self-assessment or not but also other key information that that talks to sort of Human Rights standards so whether there are any cases of abandonments of seafarers which again the earlier panel uh touched on uh I think since 2001 over 10 000 seafarers have been abandoned uh of course thankfully you know this is uh relatively rare events and it's on the tail end of the shipping but I think it just highlights the risks that are out there and you know it is really critical that you know who you're dealing with you've got that Insight intelligence uh to to be making the right decisions and understanding you know your rest and managing that so um there's a QR code there right I think we've shared it as well so please you know do make use of that um we want to to share that that insight and information make that available uh be as transparent as possible in terms of those who are contributing uh and then start your journey in terms of uh you know filling in some of those knowledge gaps in terms of the information that sits out there but uh thank you I hand everybody I'm sure you've got some questions I do I do I have more questions for you so um you speak of how you're thank you Christopher for that so I have I have three things so let's how far let's see how far we get in the next five minutes so you speak about making it free right um to ship owners to use but how do you even weave it with it being free how do you encourage more to use it to self-assess and then I wanted yeah and I also want to give you a hard one um verification I think in some ways it shares similarities with the global compacts with the companies produced a report that is put up on the web and it talks about their adherence to the 10 principles but it's not checked it's no oversight so so let's let's start with there you know how do we get more people to use it and who verifies yes absolutely so I think um it's been remarkable I think in terms of the work and and the coverage that's been achieved so far um and as I say that that's really down to proactive submissions um of course there's been leverage I think there's some really good examples in terms of some of the big charges really buying into this initiative and some were part of the working group in terms of forming it up um so that certainly helps and and I think we'll you know as as Mark and Ben touched on I think that will only uh continue to see a larger adoption of these sorts of best practices and initiatives it's the pressure from from from that sort of demand site um we're seeing um big Charters building it into their sort of Human Rights declarations I think um one of our shareholders very publicly has put that forward amongst many other initiatives and in terms of what they're doing and I think we're seeing um you know Partnerships in terms of people uh pairing up with companies that are doing the right thing and rewarding that and I think that that ultimately is the key here there has to be that recognition and reward uh to encourage more to be doing the right thing and going beyond that minimum standard and you know from right chips like that certainly where we see this you know um making that visible and available uh within the platform uh against a vessel or a company we really want to be able to reward those that are doing the right thing and are going the extra mile um of course the self-assessment is just the starting point as you you correctly say Bonnie um there's got to be that evidence around it there's got to be that verification if we're truly going to use uh this and trust it completely um there's a lot of work going on in that space and and very much so I think again it it the demand has to be there from the charters from the cargo owners that that's something that they want they require um and we need to we need to have that you know being written in into contracts that there's a demand that they you know the people that you're using the companies the vessels that you're utilizing that they are signing up to initiatives like this and they are becoming verified in terms of their declarations uh from right chip side we're performing verifications through physical inspections on board vessels and also uh through physical audits going to the management companies offices and working through their submission uh looking at their practices um but also in in terms of working with organizations like turtle and others that um you know understanding who they're working with what what ship managers what ship owners are utilizing their services and again that gives you an assurance that the right measures are being taken in areas such as recruitment so I think there's a lot of work going on in this space but there's an awful lot more that that can be done and needs to be done but it's an exciting it's as exciting to see it progress thank you for that Christopher and I see that I have one minute so I want to squeeze this in um you know so what about the role of workers voice what do you do with that um in terms of planning ahead for the next stage you know what's what's coming um do you engage with unions at ports do you you know what is the world they play in what you spoke about for verification and transparency that would be my last question then we moved to Doug sure yeah no so um we've got an exciting piece of work um underway at the moment uh again with the same working group that that sort of formed the the self-assessment and the code of conduct in the first place and we'll be reaching out through that working group um to other industry players as well to to contribute and that's very much focused in uh revising the the crew welfare standard and the content that's within it um leveraging you know the learnings that they've been now that we're a year and a half in um taking feedback understanding again we're mlc for example has had revisions where we've seen uh charterers cargo owners making uh further requests and demands um and and introducing that that sort of governance process in terms of a verification standard and again that will be published uh out to the market and then making that sort of verified or unverified data again freely available uh so that all stakeholders in the industry can can start to make use of that of course that's in a collaborative way I think the likes of ITF ICS many others are involved in the process and you know for it to really be successful it thrives on that sort of level of involvement well thank you very much for that Christopher I hope in the Q a we can come back and pick up on some of the threads but now I'm in the interest of time let's move on to our last panelists and I was teasing Doug earlier before the panel I said I'm going to throw it to him and he's going to tell us how to fix it you know in his 10 minutes but I will okay so I was only half joking because I would like for us to end up somewhere in that direction towards the end of our discussion but let me just ask you from your law experience of working um on human rights issues and supply chain do you think there has been sufficient attention given you know given to the to the shipping sector no we could end it right there okay all right um first first of all I feel like I'm uh short person amongst Giants here because of my experience in this area makes me feel like my extent has been paddling around a kayak in uh amidst all these big ships but uh but I would say no no um there hasn't been enough attention on it um and I think that uh hrb and these organizations putting a spotlight on it is really helpful but it also causes some angst you know for businesses um you know I think uh you know if you think about how businesses have approached Supply chains and responsibility and Supply chains you know they started with tier one tier two what they buy what they manage what's manufacture what sold them now they're told to be told they've got to go to tier three uh raw materials you got to do it so you're going down that that train of thought and then you got to throw an oh we got these recruiters over here that we got to start monitoring just in that product supply chain which that's another element of complexity now you're like oh we've got to look at all the shipping now yeah and let's talk about value chains right yeah and I'm gonna say that's a whole other discussion internally because that's a different department within companies that's that's your Logistics your transport it's not the same contracts and so so I think there has to be discussions internally I'm trying to jump to Solutions I guess quickly but as I think it through companies need to have uh you know human rights people talking to the logistics people now uh your lawyers for the logistics are going to be different from the lawyers that were for your compliance or your for your corporate Affairs or whatever it is so you're gonna have to involve different lawyers now and I think that those because those contracts with Freight are different than your man your master service agreements with suppliers and so so you're gonna have to embed these standards and you know the standards for suppliers you might have aren't necessarily going to be in those Freight contracts and so I think you've got to start with embedding it in those um so sorry I'm jumping to the solutions I'm just no no I want to think through why this hasn't been focused on I think yet because it's an aspect of the supply chain that is very different from what uh company's been focusing on no I think it's a it's a it's a valid point and I think it reflects the general observation that Logistics and transport team typically in a company are not usually there right on a discussion you know on human rights due diligence so why is that and how do we bring them into this important discussion because this is where all these issues that Christopher mentioned that Martha mentioned on human rights to do due diligence that's where we can start looking at risks in transportation I think it's just the way companies are you've got to segment and specialize you know the Specialists are over here for transport and Logistics your buyers and Merchants are over here so it's just the way it is so you've got to have a matrixed approach to this within an organization um and and it's not they've not necessarily been part of the equation when it comes to Human Rights so so they're gonna have to get educated they're gonna have to be we're up to speed where everybody else in the company might be on the same page and I think that's where highlighting it like ihrb does allows those people to have those conversations internally and I think if you can have more stories like of of what somebody has gone through uh you know like Ben could Supply that gives that gives information that you can take back into your company and say this is what's going on uh and and then I think you know if you're trying to do this internally you've got to start looking at risk where is the risk you can't tackle everything so as a company okay let's let's kind of map out the risk here um you know which which lines which freight companies are more risky um you know does it depend on where the flag state is uh you know these flags of convenience seem in my mind as a lawyer seemed to go like okay if I want to skirt the system I might go to let's let's pick a country that I think is is not very restrictive and I'm going to go with that as a ship and so so something's got to be done around there so I mean this is this is a whole ball of wax I think this is yes a whole ball of Wax and I think it's going to take it's going to take you know the spotlight is going to take business you know you know whether you've chartered or cargo owner or importer it's going to take that as a demand we've heard I think is important it's going to take uh you know those actual owners of the of the ships doing it and then I think there's a whole public policy piece to this um that has to be done advocacy and and how do you how do you advocate in Panama when you've got okay that might be where the the flag state is but you've got a bunch of people from the Philippines so you can have to advocate for changes in Panama perhaps you know be more restrictive or maybe they need more resources or even ports need resources and then you're gonna have to like advocate for maybe policy changes within the Philippines you know you got to be more restrictive of the Manning in the in the Manpower part of it um so yeah I'm kind of smiling a bit a bit because panel one opened with this short introduction about how complicated it is you know we're looking at Flack State we're looking at Port stay where and then not to mention all these jurisdiction issues um you know law of the sea typically is not an easy low class you know for these reasons where you have different overlapping jurisdictions you have nationality of the seafarers you have you have a ship that can be divided and bought up by different people you can have ports that are divided and you know different people own it so it is complicated so I think that is a barrier you know to a lot of people trying to understand the maritime sector how complicated it is and I think you mentioned very very rightfully so the regulation right internationally nationally it is a very mixed picture I mean I am astounded by the fact that uncle's the um United Nations conventional law of the sea if you if you look at slavery they prohibit the transportation of slavery so the question is okay so is the use okay you know so so I think the people tend to feature very weekly in a lot of these International discourses on Ocean governance and we need to change that because we see the effect of that trickling down to the National level so you spoke of the power of stories and um I think going back to what Martha said about the due diligence um briefing produced by the global compact it was that the the case study they used was um it started with the company hearing about the tremendous human you know the unfolding humanitarian disaster for a crew that was stranded and they wanted to take action and they fed that to the board and there we're seeing all that Ripple effects you know that Martha spoke about so I think that is indeed very very powerful so let's move the discussion a little bit to your idea of solutions so how where do we start you alluded to groups like this where we you know multi-stakeholder initiatives is contract an option should these Clauses be uncertain to contracts like Crystal Falls suggested yeah yeah yeah I think so um you know I think if you want to protect yourself as a company better put some of these in there um you know as you have a freight contract especially if you're going to Charter vessels which was popular during covid because of the supply chain issues um you know you're a step closer to that to the conduct and you're a little more you're always responsible but you're a little closer to that responsibility and so if you didn't have something in there in a contract you're very exposed you know if you didn't and so I mean that's the first step in the oece due diligence is embedded in your Management Systems you know get it in the contracts you know and that's what that's what everybody has done companies have done with standards for suppliers I mean they put those in the contracts well these are different contracts now and we've got to make sure that the same type of thing the code of conduct that we've been talking about is probably in those as well okay so contracts yeah that's one thing more awareness around the stories of the negative impacts of Human Rights impacts the higher recruitment fees that we looked at in panel one um let's look at some of the other Solutions quote about ports what can Port Authorities do they're the linchpin you know if we look at Maritime transport and transport on land should we ask more of Port Authorities what are their due diligence procedures I can say that I actually looked up the Freeport documents that the UK government is proposing just to see what were their provisions on human rights and I don't think I found any so how do we change this whole ecosystem where again the people do not feature in issues of governance in these talks of trade yeah Ben mentioned earlier about inspection monitoring being filling those holes in the ports and getting that done uh you know and it it really might be that there's a lack of resources uh yeah I don't really know in the ports and so it may be that there needs to be some input of extra resources whether it's uh you know another country usaid helping kind of for example or difficult helping to actually build up the resources of those ports I mean that may be a solution to that I see our online panelists nodding can I ask you for some of your thoughts Martha do you want to jump in yeah yeah sorry I was not uh no I mean I was I was nodding and thinking because I mean thoughts sorry to bring more complexity into it but of course ports are also incredibly complex you have public ports you have private ports so they're kind of entry points into action will be quite different with respect to private or privately owned ports of course that same kind of logic with respect to Rising ESG all these kind of things may apply to them and that may we see ports already having certain sort of um not let measures in place for ships visiting courts of respect to their ghg emissions or green credentials so one could assume that something similar might be done with respect to human labor rights but once again with a publicly owned Port they were also in some ways have more responsibility to actually do something about this so once again it's it's it is complex and the entry point and The Leverage that each Port will have will be very different compared you know somehow awesome public privately owned for instance as well so I think that's also something to navigate but I said each of those answers will then have different reasons for taking action on this and a number of them are with respect to environments so there should be no reason why this cannot be included so be mindful of the complexities and look at building up capacity for poor authorities to you know and going back to Martha's point about you know knowing that these are complex settings but we need to identify our points of Leverage Kristoff um you were nodding so can we have your thoughts and then we moved to the floor I mean I think we've seen firsthand yeah we work reports and terminals as well um and I think the challenge in that space as well for alluded to is is um obviously in for Charters uh there's that kind of go-negro decision uh making option in terms of the contracts often with the ports you're receiving a vessel um of course if there's there's grave concerns there then there's there's options in terms of rejecting the vessels or detaining them or excluding them but but often you know [Music] you don't know so much about the wrestle until it gets in and that harm or all that problem is already revenue for so I think uh the role of the ports terminals that sort of space it is really around reporting when when issues are detected um I think we we leverage a sort of feedback reporting mechanism with the ports and terminals uh that use our platform and it's is a really really valuable tool they're on board the vessels that they're able to flag um you know where there are welfare concerns there are often even inspecting the vessels now that can be always support state control inspections which are obviously official but they can be more informal inspections being done just at that um you know uh the terminal operators the loading Masters the pilot even boarding The Vessel to help safely navigate the vessel in these are all touch points where um you know we've got to we've got to sink into that and be able to capture data from that to then be able to take action and to be able to you know stamp down on the offenders and ultimately stop them being able to trade I think that's that's the key here is about uh I talked about earlier about recognizing those who are going beyond the minimum standards and rewarding that I think at the same time those that are found to to be guilty those of it to be found to breaching basic human rights and those minimum standards uh we've got to we've got to restrict them in terms of being able to to do that harm again thank you so much Christopher so many interesting points you speak of you know um inspections um penalties shall we take questions and see where the discussions go I'm just very mindful of time because the next panel is on child labor in the U.S and I don't want to steal any minute from that all right Francesca it's my first time Bonnie's the pro here um so a couple of comments questions just coming in about fishing vessels and as I've mentioned in the first panel unfortunately we'd love to we'd love to touch on uh the issue of responsible recruitment there but we just we don't have the the time for that today so I guess three questions um one of which you've sort of answered and I'll just ask all three and then and then you can tackle them but um you know in terms of enforcement and inspections should Brands be paying for inspections more what what more can be done around around inspections should be more advocating to get to get that more off the ground um in terms of the self-assessment does it pick up on the most sensitive issues for seafarers and then rounding back again to just look at the issues of responsible recruitment um are there any cases of sending governments taking responsibility around seafarers who've either due diligence in terms of Remedy or in terms of preventing Apple in the first place and I guess that reminds me also the question that I didn't come to in the first panel that you mentioned Bonnie about and positive examples of shipping companies um addressing the issues of recruitment fees and stuff well um thank you so much I think the most obvious is um Kristoff you take the question on self-assessment we spoke a little bit about enforcement and inspection but I wonder whether or not um Martha you can take that and then we go back to responsible Recruitment and Doug yeah how does that sound and then we wrap up promptly okay Kristoff your turn self-assessment does it pick up the most um sensitive issues yeah I think the question was around does it pick up yes the most sensitive issues so I think uh yes it does uh it's been constructed um certainly we're we're quite a uh a breadth in terms of what it looks to cover so everything from those recruitment practices that we spoke about and I've heard an awful lot about uh well-being on board provisions of access to Wi-Fi the the quality and quantity of food um recreation equipment payment of wages support in terms of of mental health health care um I think all those sort of key items that that Mark spoke really well about in terms of what you would expect in any Showbiz job which sometimes is is is not actually provided uh on board vessel so I think absolutely it does uh however it's it's not in isolation I think that there's plenty of work going on in the industry there's lots of innovation there's lots of tools that contribute to doing even more and and the self-assessment is about um highlighting some of those and promoting them and making suggestions that you know in best practice for example engaging directly with the seafarers that you're employing to pulse check how they're feeling to to check in on their mental health to provide them more support um in what is often a challenging job where you're away from from your family and we heard about some of those stresses and challenges so I think no tool or solution is that in isolation there's many many initiatives uh you know the ITF do it doing a lot of work as well and I think these are all fantastic and have have a role to play thank you very much so so Martha you work for the UN Global compact so tell us how can we improve you know enforcement and the actual implementation of the mlc yeah that's it that's a great question um and actually even though yes you and Global compelled to both companies but I'm gonna Chuck it a bit back to our member State friends here because we know that the ultimate enforcement of the maritime labor convention does rest with governments um to some extent and here of course during covert we saw that a lot of what they were supposed to be enforcing they didn't um so I think you know there's lots of lessons to be learned there to how we can ensure that governments and authorities actually enforce what they've signed up to under the maritime labor convention and I know there are a lot of lessons to be learned in that respect from covert I see Mark nodding I don't know if you can all see it but so we so there's a lot to learn there but maybe just you know just you know moving also away from from the role of authorities to enforce the mlc I think you know there's another role for legislation here which is you know as I mentioned there's obviously now this increased scrutiny on sort of supply chain due diligence risk assessment and we know that under the incoming legislation in the European Union for instance that there will be a need for companies to verify what it is they're saying that they're doing and that of course is another mechanism of enforcing um what what companies say they're doing in that respect so I think once again using those kind of uh legislative pool functions will be important and then yeah it's already been mentioned by Chris but of course when it comes to the verification aspect and the ITF is doing you know great work in that respect being able to actually inspect the vessels and but of course in order to be inspected you need to have that collective bargaining agreement in the first place so a way to enforce is also to engage through collective bargaining to engage with the unions and that will be you know another you know one of the the most important ways to ensure that what you are expecting of your suppliers is actually coming into fruition thank you Martha um so I think we return back to a standard question when it comes to responsible recruitment which is how can we get States to drive the solutions and actually implement the responsible recruitment model not just for seafarers but across and make it the standard so Doug how do we do that how do we get two minutes the countries yes exactly sending States but I think it's equal right all states yeah definitely yeah and this is this is what a leadership group responsible recruitment has been fighting for a while you know how do you get these these governments to actually change and and actually have a responsible recruitment mindset regulating the Manpower agencies that are sending the workers out protecting them is going to take multiple engagements it's going to take Brands and and businesses coming together and saying this is the way it should be it's going to take these these vessel owners it's going to take you know organizations like we've had today kind of coming together and and it's going to be a have to be a collective effort to try to to pick and choose okay let's I think let's pick the ones that are kind of the the worst actors here and and let's let's go engage in them um you know I think that's that's the key but it can't just be one company or one one entity going to talk to them uh and then it's got to be other governments kind of putting pressure as well through through things uh you know and through their their aid development or through trade status things like that yes so it's not a quick solution yeah yeah very true so we have one minute and I feel like we're just starting right we can we can talk for another hour I think but um and we should keep talking right that's the message here um for the group we're just at the beginning of the journey for human rights due diligence um in shipping but the greater goal is to change it to a system for a responsible recruitment is the norm it's not exceptional it's just the way it is so let's you know let's bring that into reality so in the last minute I would like to ask you to join me in thanking our panelists and also for the participants calling in online I know a lot of people from Asia are calling in um they were very excited about the shipping day focused so thank you so much [Applause] [Music]