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if you recall what part of what we did yesterday was a lot of digging in to how people were doing their sales and observing from a thirdparty perspective can you better see some of the things that you maybe unconsciously were doing that were hurting your sales or or preventing further connection or the ongoing relationship can you see the things that you were obviously doing quite right so know that and keep doing it because that's going really really well did you guys see a lot of that yesterday yeah wonderful okay so what we're going to do a little bit of a different take on it is instead of just sitting back and third party viewing something in terms of a sales session um we had Michael bravely step up and you did a shoot while you when you came to Seattle correct yes yes so came to Seattle did a photo shoot sat down with a client here in our creative live studio filmed a sales session um and then you took the next step and did additional homework and gave me notes on hey here are the things that I would love for you to look at and tell me how I did here's what I think maybe might have happened looking back on it but I'm not sure can we get some clarity correct absolutely okay so I think this is going to be very helpful because it's not just me dropping in and saying dude at that point what were you thinking it's you saying I I was unsure here what what could I have done differently or how did this maybe come across so we're going to jump through and spend a few minutes um probably a good 10 15 minutes hopefully getting even more information out that will help everybody at home in your sales sessions things that you can see that are really good and things that might be tripping you up um so we start out we sit down together Hi how are you good how you see turn up a little to see you too um have any trouble getting here anything no I took 99 so I followed my husband's advice for once awesome and first off you were clearly being filmed for the purposes of this class so it was that beginning is always a little bit like oh hi we're on a camera all right you get over it pretty quickly but yeah so but just to some's do give you some good allowance this first minute or so so it's just kind of starting conversation how you doing how'd you get here okay so now we're going in and you say this is kind of what to expect from the process iond uh your honest feedback all right all right is it possible to turn it up just a little bit for me okay here we go uh as we go through uh if you have any questions or um you know uh you have any comments about it please feel free to just let me know okay and don't worry about uh hurting my feelings I just want uh your honest feedback all right right okay so don't worry about hurting my feelings I want your honest feedback yeah I was um I think that's already set up yes I had to say like revie this was way more beneficial than I ever thought so I want to do this more than once so if you guys ever get a chance I highly recommend it um because as I was taking my notes um yes I saw what I was doing right and what I was doing wrong but the big deal is like you can see the the the gap between where you're disconnecting with your client you know and that's kind of huge so not kind of it is huge so um the term is gormas yeah gormas there you go yeah yeah and hopefully I mean obviously part of it too is there there's been so much stuffed into your head over the last couple days that that the clarity you would have had is even sharper like you're like ah before uh Saturday at 2 pm I would have never dreamed of that um yeah so like but but what you did there and I think you recognize is you set yourself up and gave her the expectation that these may not be very good don't worry about hurting my feelings just tell me if that's what you think when clearly that's not what we how we want to start no never no yeah all right so we move in and you start out okay so this is this is number one and this is when we were sitting at the uh remember when we were in at the park we were sitting on inside of that statue yeah you remember this this the that part where you guys are inside of that cradle cute what do you think of so you start out what do you think of it what do you think um which is which is natural do you want to buy it do you want it what size um that's natural normal because you're you're you're getting started you put it up there it wasn't up for long you talked a little bit about it and then we rushed to feel the silence right okay I I love the expression on my son's face you captured him perfectly and my husband he looks goofy but like the way he I me it's perfect um body language I I'm not sure it's my favorite but I I love I love the Expressions you capture on him and even me I think I look I look pretty good you look great yeah um Naomi it's not my favorite picture of her just because she smells a lot but she's you know a baby so it's hard but it's a beautiful picture I'm I'm really happy with it good so would you say I like it you like okay so I'm just going to Mark these as we kind of move forward okay so have you given her the expect you're telling her now that you're going to mark them as you go forward yeah earlier in the uh video we we kind of skipped ahead of it I went over the love like kind of forget about it Perfection okay and kudos to our client for stepping up and uh and having the uh photo shoot right yes absolutely she was her family was awesome hi guys what's going on um so um yeah so so you we kind of go through the first one she gives you some she's great that she steps up and says this this and this in terms of the feedback you mark it and you continue now um you get into here kind of a situation that you don't exactly know what you should say or do about right I come up on when she comments on how she looks I actually like this one did you photoshop my face uh cuz I look thinner than I do I I uh retouch all of my images um is that really mean and of course it's really you you look fantastic I always okay so that's interesting this comes up sometimes people will ask us especially if you're photographing I tend to photograph a lot of photographers and just do so people will say specifically these questions I've gotten that before but in general sometimes people will say did you do something to that right have you guys gotten that and then your response were was I think right spot on I retouched all my photos like you know if she said to you specifically did you photoshop my face which she actually does ask right but but I'm saying but if she looked right at you and waited for your response and all sort stuff that's a different situation but in general you gave an honest answer you gave some feedback in this case you said you didn't actually do anything in the way of no there was nothing in the in regards of special effects it's just purely color correction that's it yeah and often what our clients don't know is if that we have a lot of practice on great posing and great lighting it will look like we photosho them but it's not that's where we're actually bringing the skill and I say that I say actually you know I I do make a point of retouching all my photos and I finish them for you and that's part of your service in addition I have spent a lot of time learning how to pose you really well and how to like you really well to your best advantage and that's a lot of what you're seeing here today and that's that's great to communicate that that's a big plus of why they're using you as an established practice professional versus going out and getting snapshots that they're going to pay 99 Cents for you know that there's a a huge difference there that has very little to do with Photoshop and has to do with technical expertise yes it does all right so then we've got that and then we're going to move to going to move forward here a little bit I thought this was interesting um we get to a point where um we have some objection concerns is it that you have I don't want him to look like he's bald he's he's still got hair okay so why don't we do this if we can't do if we can't get it to a point to where um uh his hair uh doesn't look natural um one of the other products that uh I offer is called standouts and what they are is kind of foam matted um uh foam core boards that are um displayed with the entire image sorry about that uh that display the entire image um and it's wrapped around a foam coreboard and the the it's basically on standout so it's not on a frame it's not inside of a frame it's not a standard paper print okay but um it it it elongates uh the photograph from the wall so I'm not certain if you're familiar with the product or not but uh if I had my samples with me I would show them to you is it as nice as the canvas in your opinion I think that they're both they're they're both fantastic pieces uh I own both uh and and I use both in my studio they're they're perfect for different situations um canvas and my it gives kind of a a textile feel um and they're very elegant um but I don't necessarily have uh a preference over the other um I just think that they fit different um uh fit different situations so and in situations like this where you know you're worried about a crop you know you like the image as it is you can you can put the image flush uh without sacrific you know you can still get a nice large print without having to worry about you know good good so basically her objection was she was concerned that if she got a canvas it would wrap and it would take away aesthetically from part of the image that she wanted to keep in and you offered a solution that that would resolve that and still give her the feeling of a piece of work artwork as a standout and you and you were a disadvantage that you didn't have your products to show it obviously if you were in your studio you would have shown them great that's exactly what you do next you get up and say look look or if you're at someone's home that's the that's the big upside of having samples with you if you're doing something remotely via Skype and stuff you can show things with a third dimensional View kind of a standout look which is very helpful to be able to say that's what it looks like from the front and that's what it looks like hanging on a wall Etc um so I thought that was a really good response um clearly I think that what would be really helpful in this situation is to you know it's not a script but get familiar and comfortable with that kind of response so that you can deliver it in a very natural flowing way because otherwise you get a little TR tripped up and sometimes when you're trying to think of the words and the description and the this and that they can get a little lost in the tripping right and they don't and they're not they're not into the language of what you're expressing they're not seeing it they're not feeling it my only question was uh we we began immediately talking about um you know Prince she asked and she initiates that so yeah um I you know piggybacking off of yesterday you know the beginning of the process we want to make sure that their the client remains in an emotional state and my my fear is you know we're we go from oh I love the image to I I want to get it we begin talking about you know buying and purchasing in Prints but at what point is that okay you know to uh to actually go over do you want to just say that's great but you know uh we can absolutely talk about that but let's do that later on or do you address the question immediately like I did um the former which is to say you know a wonderful question let me make a note right here I know exactly what we want to talk about we're not going to lose this um let's keep moving along and then I'll know exactly what to come back to because that way you let her know that you heard her that that's not going to get lost it was expressed and you're going to act on it um but if you keep kind of moving along you know similar to what I talked about managing distractions in our work life balance course managing distractions and staying productive one of the best things you can do is keep a point sheet just simply write down what's coming up so it's not lost so you can revisit it you you know add a little extra detail once to make sure part of the image isn't cropped out um so then when you go back to it at the right time you know energetically it's a lot more effective and it doesn't kill the flow all right let's see we're on to want to come up here we have to um okay so at this point um we get into uh you know you start out saying you don't worry you won't hurt my feelings Etc moving through poting out this way so I I I I somewhat would like to see him with his hand down but I'm not totally certain but it's kind of neat it gives a little bit of character yeah I like it um I the only thing I don't like about it is that I I actually like his hand up there is his um facial expression with his eyes there um who Caleb's Caleb's mhm my son it's that that's not the way he normally yeah it's like a halfway expression on but I love that my daughter's looking I love that we're looking I love my husband with his grin like that okay um but it's one that I definitely would if you know we were to purchase the print or album it would be um in there for sure okay so it's a like a like okay it's AR okay so in that instance specifically she's saying I like everything about it except for this one expression right right yes and that's not abnormal at all when you're I mean when I wrote envisioning family my beginning part was like this is really really really hard to get everybody together looking good looking one way I mean you can get 99% of your shot and then an expression changes fleetingly and suddenly it's not the perfect picture you know um that's totally okay but in that case if you that's part of why again you don't want to show multiple images endlessly that are just slightly varied in terms of expression and this and that but if you have a few of a family I would definitely always suggest taking few a few family photographs not just one um you have the option to do things in Photoshop later or offer a head swap for a fee or something like that um and you have to gauge that on your your client some clients might feel like well that's not natural and organic and I don't like that others might be like swap that head amen bring it in um and then you save the sale you save the shot you still did the work it's just a matter of basically compositing two images into one to make the image that she really wants to buy okay um let's say uh okay so moving into this then we get to the point where um we talk about extracting expression smiling I'd say like okay like on this yeah it's you know the extracting expressions from kids is so difficult especially you did such a good job the young well thank you very much you guys are great too the younger and younger they are the harder it is but that one okay so so extracting expressions from kids the younger they are the harder it is that's true sometimes yes yeah either either way it's my job it's your job to to get the get the IM I I one of the other pieces that I kind of took away from this is now I'm not a a family photographer I'm very used to interacting with adults and directing and saying okay I need to do this back pose back here children are kudos to all of you okay it's a whole different it is a completely different monster absolutely um it's it's very rewarding work but it's it's really hard so I think I went from like I knew the previous image you know uh I kept hearing her say expression expression expression and I know that as as an artist that that's really you know everything right um but you know I I wanted to point out okay the next image is like this one's great you know forget about the last one yeah so you thought the next one was great yeah I did yes so why didn't you lead with the great one and phase out the one you didn't like that's an excellent question I probably should have yeah yeah because I mean in that vein specifically if you lead with your best work um you that is your job as the editor you know you lead with your best work you leave out anything that you feel like you have to make an excuse for the only reason I would submit additional image that I didn't love is if I felt they complemented something else and I could sell them as a joint you know this would be great and an album this section together okay you know this would be a great secondary or third Family Image to pull from if everything is fantastic except for that one expression those are good reasons safe secure reasons to have additional ones but just in general if you've got one that you don't really like and one that you love you make the choice and put forward the one you love and don't don't have to waste your time making excuses okay there's no reason to I mean you you nailed the shot you got the good shot um all right so a little note on Clarity here sure sure absolutely so well I'm sorry I want to make perfectly sure I want to be certain about what I'm hearing you say you're saying that if you have other images that you wanted to put together and recrop in a different way that aren't currently one by one we could do that there there shouldn't be a problem doing that um what did he do he asked for clarification he rephrased and confirmed a point and that was before uh that was that I know that's awesome I love that that's that's excellent because then what did she felt she felt heard understood you're engaged she's in this more you're in this more um if it if at any point you just you're not sure you completely get it that's a wonderful practice to get into all right and then um couple more points before we head out of this um so this is a on on the other side of listening we have a different example cuz that was a great listen yeah I love black and white um I'm I'm sorry was that a love it's a it's a like but it's a like a lot okay so that that's not a big deal but you know kind of letting her go forward because she's about to start saying about what she loves and what she's into and this and that um if you have that mental note like wait what was that um just hold it for a second let her finish okay that's that's a pretty easy note um and uh let's see we have here well we are again we have another option we're trying to get everybody to look forward like everybody in the shot for whatever I think it was just partially because it was hot everybody was just yeah now my husband's got that Big Shiny SP if this was an image that we we were to purchase um is that something that you could get rid of that shiny spot absolutely sure so this little this little you're talking about this little sunflare hair right this highlight right here underneath his eye I can absolutely take that off for you so if if that turns this into a uh uh uh an image that you know you want to turn to print yeah of course absolutely no problem yeah that's like a four that's like a four like all right yeah so that was good she asked you what you could do with it and you told her and and then what I would even do right then if I felt that she was leaning I know everybody kind of feels differently about this but I have you know if we are in the point where deciding what to do with them you know we're after we've made the choices and we're deciding what we do with them I pop it open and I say like for instance boom boom boom do you see the difference um I notice my clients have a really strong reaction to um there's one thing for saying yeah I can fix it and change it and in my head it looks really good now do you see that no they don't see that so showing them and the amount of times you you do the before and after toggle and you say okay that's what we started with this is what you would have when I give it to you it's the it moves them from I think so to done okay done love it don't change your thing print you know that does happen because then you just gave them the chance to really see what you're talking about not the the vague theory of what you know you can do because most of the time it's in your head and it's not in theirs all right are there other points you wanted to hit before we moved on from this section I know that you said in general from your perspective from your notes looking through this you were surprised at how many times you pointed out your flaws uh yes it without a doubt one of the other big things that I see is uh the further and further we get away the less and less I'm looking at her and um it I I really want to make sure that it uh we're focusing on what we're doing and that I'm constantly reestablishing a connection with her so I don't think I would ever want to sit like this ever again so I'm it automatically made me think about right how not only do I want to do this but like how do I want to position the client how do I want them to be able to be reengage gaug etc etc I was really disappointed that I kept looking away from her so much I kept focusing on the computer rather than her interesting interesting well that's a wonderful takeaway how would you reposition yourselves in relation to each other going forward uh you kind of brought up a suggestion yesterday about it um I'm not exactly sure to be honest with the wireless mouse yeah the the the wireless mouse was a good idea um uh I don't know if I would necessarily want to have chairs side by side I kind of like the idea of you know maybe uh a diagonal view of a single uh point where we can constantly make contact but what I do know is I never want to have any other object that I have to shift my attention away from or to uh other than her and the imagery yeah because from a non-verbal perspective what you're picking up on very well is that your back is to what she's looking at you're looking at a different screen and then you're kind of craning around not you know not to similar to me right now you know to see what you're looking at um and then when and you're in a position where you're comfortable like I said said the way we have it positioned we have the wireless mouse here the computer's back there that that I'm not looking at because we're just looking together at the screen and so similar to like being going to the movies with someone even though you're having a separate experience in separate seats you're together because you're you're sharing an experience and you're both directing your energies in the same way if you were at a movie theater and somebody was facing the back it would have a very different kind of effect