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is yep because you're doing B2B sales and you don't want to sound like a Salesman but you actually want to help people and by golly you want to find high paying retainer clients that's the Dilemma that we're in right and so accountants generally think costs and and these different things but even demo Devin just made a comment about how it's just a different skill set and it's this whole other thing and I was like yeah accountants in general like we all know this but it there's a reason why you didn't get into sales and then my little comment was that I've done tens of thousands 20 000 I've done so many sales that for me it's a natural thing so I was just giving Devin some advice here about two things that drive a sale for me is is a relentless pursuit to add value and then a genuine authentic curiosity and so I was just about to dive into this little rant and I was like let me just record this real quick because I'm just trying to when I meet somebody so back when I had Nuance Financial um and even now when I meet a business owner I'm literally like there are so many things I can learn about this person like first off so the first part is I want to find out how they get started what got them started where are they at now and then where are they going now I summarize that but that could take 30 to 45 minutes and when you're engaged and you're taking notes and you're asking and affirming and actively listening and nodding your head and actually on the roller coaster ride with them and asking really good questions that are curiosity driven about what's it like in their shoes what are the monkeys on their back what is hard that they're doing what is it that keeps them up at night like we make that comment like oh do you ever ask them what keeps them up at night but if you can frame up like genuinely what's the last thing you think about that makes your stomach turn as a business or like God I got to get this project done oh man I gotta get some more sales I'm gonna have to fire Charlie because Charlie I don't work for Charlie I better advertise to get work for Charlie like when you you have to bring an authentic curiosity and a whole set of questions and just actively engage you can't talk about accounting can't talk about marketing you talk about this business because everything that we're going to do is going to help them achieve their dreams and help them achieve their goals and the only way you get that is you're the guide to help them head up in that direction but if you can't figure out what's it like for them to take this stroll from here to there you're never going to be able to be in position to add that value so I'm driven by authentic genuine curiosity but I Foster that Curiosity inside of myself like I genuinely I take it upon myself to invest in my attention invest in my active listening like I may be kind of corny yup because I care yup and whether it's someone that's small or big I give them my genuine engagement and that's not because I'm so good but I've developed that and trained that over the years so that I have a genuine curiosity to know and I personally want to know how like I feel like I'm there for a purpose I feel like most of the time I will get some sort of intuition to how to get them unstuck usually so curiosity is huge and then the second part that we were just talking about how do you become a great accountant it's not about accounting it's not about a tax it's not about you know just just the uh tax return or tax savings or anything it's you need to add as much value as you have and all of us have a different skill set so when you get in there you're really more trying to just help them and so what's what's weird I learned this from Patrick lencia and I'll shut up here Devin I know I'm just blabbing but um Patrick Lencioni had this comment as a consultant so he's a well-paid speaker he's written some great books and I think he was talking about his book naked and he was basically like when you're doing a consulting job just go in and add so stinking much value that of course they're gonna hire you and I took that to heart I'm really open handed in fact I have reviews on my way I I do calls that I should get paid massive money for but you know why I do it because it's kind of a calling to me and of course you're going to hire me and of course you're going to refer me because doggone it that was helpful and so when you're an accountant when you come in and you just like you try to be so helpful and teach and guide there's a humility that guides them to say hey where are you heading with your business because that's really what it's about I and here's the last part of the rant is that in order for you to sell more value you have to have that bigger conversation right until you have these big mature conversations about what are you doing to scale your business and improve profitability those two things should undergird every conversation that an accountant has with their Prospect because it is what all of us get into business for I want to make a higher percentage of profits in my business and then I want to scale further so I don't have to do everything maybe not get huge but I don't know what thoughts do you have Devin what wisdom yeah I I absolutely agree with everything that you said and it makes the job much more fun it's much more interesting than just doing a tax return when you're actually helping people and when you've helped them to the extent that they go out of their way you know to tell you like ah you've been a godsend thank you yeah I actually heard that a version of that a couple weeks ago and it probably still got me through this last couple weeks during tax season going people people see the value I don't know it just makes me feel better about what I'm doing and gives me joy in the job yeah it's so it genuinely is true like I wake up every morning and I get motivated by this thought that like I can Delight a customer like I can deliver and then when I see their forms and they get contacted and we see it pay off I'm like that's awesome but when I was in a cup when I had I was never an accountant when I was a salesperson for an accounting firm I dude I was just I would meet a prospect and I was like oh I wonder how much they're overpaying in taxes I wonder how much we can equip them to actually like focus on their businesses stop with all this screwing around and when you get motivated to figure that out with curiosity in the sales process when you get good at being a guide and showing them that that's what you do all of a sudden the whole thing gets really easy but it starts with adding a ton of value you're right it's more fun it's more engaging it's more rewarding it impacts communities better you transform the business instead of just like I just do the tanks in accounting um now the challenge is how do you get more valuable but anyways any other wisdom you got there Devin I'll shut up I I don't I can't compete with what you've said I think it's not a competition I just encourage to watch you girl man if I by the way if you're a small business owner and you want your taxes done right and you're especially if in the Scottsdale Phoenix area white CPA uh man I'm telling you Devin white I'll take good care of you so like And subscribe we're going to be doing more just live stuff because I built my team around me so I can kind of like take my I could do other things which has been really fun so uh check out the feedback wrench podcast like And subscribe on the YouTube channel good luck God bless