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good afternoon and thanks for joining us today my name is Kelly godshaw Marketing System specialist here at Sal staff our webinar today should run around 45 minutes and the recorded version will be available after today's webinar as we proceed through today's webinar we invite you to make comments ask questions and live tweet during today's session using the hash MVP webinar you can always ask questions via the go to webinar user interface but we're closely monitoring the Twitter feed for awesome questions and comments there's also a bonus for using Twitter during today's session at the end of the webinar we're going to select a random user who tweets using our hashtag to win a $50 Amazon gift card the winner will be announced at the end of today's webinar our speaker this afternoon is sales staff's vice president of demand generation Rick riddle Rick brings more than 20 years of experience in energy in driving demand and stewarding customer success Rick's integrated approach to engaging target audiences shaping brand attitudes and generating qualified pipeline for sales teams makes him a valuable contributor to the sales staff executive team before I turn it over Rick I just have one last question um for our audience are you guys tweeting yet Rick I'm gonna turn it over to you now thank you Kelly and welcome everyone to our webinar today discover the real MVP of your sales funnel and you know while your prospect probably thinks it's her it's probably not and it's that time of year again right we cannot talk about March without mentioning March Madness wins losses last second chances who's in who's out and while some of you are thinking basketball I'm thinking sales and end of the first quarter how are we doing how does the rest of our year look what kind of changes are already in order what's working what's not yep it's March Madness all right you know this year over 40 million Americans will fill out over 70 million brackets for the NCAA Men's Basketball tournament and ing to Nate silver of 538 the odds of predicting a perfect bracket this year are one in 1.6 billion you have a better chance of winning an Olympic gold medal than to choose every tournament basketball game outcome correctly but after today's webinar your odds of improving your lead generation and pipeline velocity are pretty close to 100% you know in our last webinar we showed you how to build the ultimate sales funnel we talked about driving prospects through the middle of the funnel for closed sales focusing on delighting clients and long-term expansion through the other end well in today's webinar we're going to talk about why too many leads can actually be bad for funnel Health why your salespeople shouldn't be prospecting how to accelerate the flow in your sales funnel and then how to build that perfect team and as an added bonus once you implement a suggestion or two that we'll discuss what kind of an impact should you expect on your organization with Buyers spending more time doing their own research marketing's job in identifying and nurturing leads is becoming more difficult ing to the corporate executive board prospects tend to go through 70% of the sales process before ever even engaging with a salesperson in fact for the most part today's buyer can self-identify self-medicate and even self- select their own solution all on their own one of the biggest challenges many organizations face today is a lack of alignment between sales and marketing in an age of Big Data marketing automation predictive intelligence and CRM sales and marketing alignment can make or break effective demand Generation Now best-in-class organizations understand which touch point to today's buyer prefers if you don't leverage for contact and engagement so that your salese are not chasing down poorly qualified or totally unqualified prospects your salespeople will dismiss your efforts and follow up based on their own personal preference as a young salesperson I always look forward to what we called Fishbowl time my company would attend a large industry trade show with marketing staffers Manning the booth at some exotic location that we were never allowed to go to as salespeople to draw Booth attendees they give away anything from a squishy ball to a free vacation all in exchange for someone dropping their business card in the bowl after the show they' highfive one another for a great show another massive number of leads collected then bring the bowl back to the office and dump them all out dividing an equal number between all of us salespeople I take my new batch o leads and begin right away looking for any company logo I recognize or a title I felt comfortable calling it wasn't long before I realized that I was proberbly doing all the wrong things and so i' learned that if I was not going to be at the trade show myself if I wasn't going to be there qualifying prospects myself in the booth myself and hoarding all the good leads for myself then marketing's Legion efforts were wasted on me now and also as as a young sales rep I wanted every single lead I could get my hands on my best leads by the way didn't come from marketing they came from Friends family client referrals unfortunately for those early prospects of mine and I'll apologize to all of you right now if any of you are here during this webinar uh each of you got the same pitch from me and always the same treatment no buy now no call back from Rick every sales Leader by the way probably faces a similar dilemma you need to have more sales ready leads faster than competition and your CEO is probably asking you right now to sell into brand new markets and win more business than last year and maybe the leads aren't the problem maybe the problem lies in how they're being managed there's no such thing as too many qualified leads don't get me wrong no such thing as too many qualified leads not having the appropriate lead qualification system as part of your overall Revenue plan now that can be disastrous so how do we fix that I think there's five critical ways and here they are first one of the best ways to hold your marketing and sales teams accountable is through a service level agreement or an SLA in an SLA marketing and sales mutually agree on the level of service one expects from the other and then they hold each other accountable don't over complicate it a good starting point could be that uh maybe marketing will deliver a certain number of sales accepted leads or Sal's based on a particular Prospect profile and at a certain quality for sales each week or each month quarter whatever your period is and that sales will work that certain number of Sal Sal's and then report back to marketing on the results everything that sales people do ties back to one metric Revenue sales Pros are hired fired promoted and recognize based on their ability to land dream clients with a company and as a 25e sales veteran I can't think of a single compliment nor do I have a plaque on anywhere in my wall rewarding me for my cool prospecting skills simply put if you're part of a demand generation effort for your company every single action you take from profiling your ideal Prospect to number of touches types of touches engaging conversations influencing qualifying should be tied to getting your salespeople in front of the very best prospects for your solution offering and and by integrating data and Technology you power your demand generation practice so that you can achieve repeatable predictable and scalable Revenue results now your your salesp people need to understand their prospects better right and they need to tailor their approach to the individual buyer but how can they communicate effectively with someone about whom they have very little information or the information is nothing more than an automated lead score well they can't and that's where sales enablement comes in marketing should enable both ends of the conversation while making content available to engage in informed potential buyers on the prospect side of the conversation marketing has to also arm sales reps with lead scores engagement tools like playbooks and activity history with a lead qualification person on the sales site and and by the way it's not a a oneandone process both marketing and sales leadership needs to continuously focus on quantifying contributions that ultimately convert to revenue rather than have a let's get as many leads as possible plan I prefer a no Prospect Left Behind mentality let's have a chalk talk if you're in marketing you are eyeballs deep right now in the science the analytics and the datadriven approach it takes a drive an anonymous visitor into an ideal Prospect within the sales funnel and although metrics and process are equally as important if you're in sales you're probably thinking in much simpler terms right trigger events number of meetings demos proposals license agreements contracts anything that helps deposit checks in the bank faster you know oftentimes salespeople just simply can't rely on marketing to generate enough leads to meet their sales targets or they just don't have the luxury of a demand generation machine in place to help so if they want leads they have to prospect I did for years and that meant lots and lots of C- calling and making my own sales appointments some of you on the phone are probably doing that right after this webinar by the way there are a few things that as sales people we hate more or that demotivates us more than prospecting but if your pipeline's not full of qualified Prospect what's the Alternatives so I'm not saying that sales Pro should not Prospect hear me right I'm not saying that salespeople should not prospect it's just that your salespeople are the wrong people to do it they're an expensive resource and you need them to be in front of prospects actively selling not spending time researching and identifying opportunities even if a salesp person is good at prospecting we all give it up as soon as we generate a pipeline right as for me I couldn't wait to stop prospecting and I quickly dropped all that activity so that I could get back to doing what I did best and what motivated me the most closing prospecting is a Time intensive task it requires an organized committed effort it's not a job for Tuesday morning or sometime on Thursday it requires dedicated resources to identify the right people engage with them gain an understanding of their business needs and challenges and most importantly influence their selection process by educating them when they're learning about their solution options finally with more and more complex buying decisions being made by multiple people on the buy side it just makes sense to specialize on the sell side too for the most part prospects don't care who they talk to as long as there is value in the conversation in the B2B sales world today it's Savvy to build some consensus lower in the organization among say researchers or influencers before the decision-making executives are open to even getting involved with you utilizing lead qualifiers to manage those opportunities is not only more effective for your organization it's also in alignment with how B2B buyers engage today so unless you enjoy the Peaks and valys feast and famine approach to acquiring new business prospecting should never stop it should be a Perpetual activity which is why it should be done by someone else other than salespeople ing to marketing Sherpa 61% of B2B buyers send All Leads directly to sales however only 27% of those leads will ever be qualified you can get the 13 or more touches very quickly the problem is that most leads rarely receive any touches Beyond receiving a very passive email or filling out a response for this this study that Microsoft did shows that by the fourth contact nine out of 10 salespeople have given up I know when it was me I probably gave up after one or two and the reason we give up is because it's not what we do best we're sales closers not pre-sales qualifiers with slim resources anyway today this is not something you want your expensive quota carrying sales reps working on you want them focused on closing business and bringing the best clients into your into your company let's face it most salespeople don't they won't and it's a pain to get them to do it anyway right you won't come close to making your number with sales doing the initial followup you want someone whose sole job it is in life to pursue your leads make sure they're a fit guide their engagement with you and then and only then connect them to sales so let's talk about how to accelerate those lead flow flows through your funnel and by the way if you're using Twitter today remember that we're trying to extend this conversation across social media using the hashtag MVP webinar so go ahead and type in any interesting comments you have or you'd like to share with with the demand gen Community or any questions that you have for me uh just go to has MVP weinar so pipeline velocity by the way if you if you know this equation good for you if you use it even better if you don't here's a quick little lesson knowing just the value of your sales pipeline is rarely enough you must be able to gauge the speed at which opportunities progress from stage to stage and the average sales typle time it takes to get there establishing a pipeline velocity metric specific to your company allows you to accurately predict sales results it also helps you determine the actions and the activities that you need to ensure adequate pipeline for future sales periods so let's look at these four variables and with these you can build a basic pipeline velocity calculation that'll help you predict future sales and whether or not they'll increase or decrease based on your current business conditions and it's very simple it just simply says let's take your your your sales accepted leads now these are the meetings these aren't marketing qualified or a prospect list these are the the marketing qualified leads that when nurtured sales agrees and accepts that they're ready for a conversation you take the number of those sales accepted leads you multiply them by your win rate in your company for your brand and your solution right now and then you multiply that by your average sales price for your average deal size then you divide that by the average length of your sales cycle simply put you're trying to get the ball in from one side of the court and score on the other so let's take a quick look by the way the larger the number the better your pipeline velocity rate in this comparison let's put the onus on demand generation not sales win rate and average sales price Remains the Same Same by simply increasing the number of sales accepted leads by two and reducing the sales cycle time from 60 to say 50 days you'll be improving your pipeline velocity by 44% and as you become more confident in the accuracy of this metric you can continue to fine-tune it by adding additional variables maybe with training your win rates improve maybe you've got something to add to your product and your average sales price approves maybe you're selling Enterprise deals instead of transaction deals all of those things fit together to build a pipeline velocity number if you get it above four consider yourself really really golden above six is just lightning quick and good so larger gains are possible by increasing deal size improving win rates but if you put the onus strictly on your demand gen team number of meetings and improved cycle time you can still get that same Improvement so now that we've got a couple of Concepts underway let's let's go build that that perfect team what does that perfect team look like and and how do we specialize to do what we said we're going to do here are three basic functions of specialization now again moving the ball up the court let's start on the left that ball is our marketing qualified lead and we've got a score so first place of specialization is the inbound lead rep they bring the lead into play if you will they qualify leads that that are found um through your website your chat line or your phone the sources of these leads are are search engine optimization blogs referrals webinars like this social media and content marketing um and but again they are finding you these reps by the way share attractive relevant engaging content to earn that prospect's attention but again they're finding you if you need to find them then you have an outbound prospecting rep they proactively find and develop new leads they Prospect into targeted accounts to develop new sales opportunities from stale cold dead dying inactive accounts the the sources of these leads generally uh are outbound marketing like email paid search direct mail if you do and events they directly seek out prospects by pushing your message out keep in mind that in both cases by the way excuse me these reps do not close deals but they create and qualify new sales opportunities and then pass them on to sales to close your sales closers by the way these are your quota carrying reps who close the business they're the scores they can either be inside or outside reps but their main goal is to score you don't want these guys you don't want these gals doing anything but closing business and and for some organizations there's there's a fourth position account manager or or customer success rep these are the ones who are responsible for client on boarding client success ongoing account management UPS sales cross sales renewals again if if if someone needs to be dedicated to making customers successful it's this person it's not your closer if someone needs to Prospect and find new business it's an inbound or an outbound rep it's not your closer in fact I like what Aaron Ross wrote in his best-selling book predictable Revenue your Prospectors should not close your Prospectors should not respond to wind down leads your Prospectors should not act as a part-time telemarketer for marketing who want them to fill their events your Prospectors should Prospect so sales gets paid to close business marketing gets paid to send leaves to sales that will close trouble is neither party knows for sure which leads are most likely to close the key to every lead management process is to have a human being tied to a phone-based function that sits between lead generation and sales opportunity management what they do all day is follow up on leads for marketing and then based on a set of qualification criteria decide which ones should go forward to sales which ones should be continually nurtured by them personally and which ones maybe should be passed back to marketing for some other automatic nurturing when you have a qualified lead you don't want to sales rep to call once and leave a voicemail like I used to do you want someone whose sole responsibility is to reach your best prospects address their issues ensure that they're a good fit for your solution and then and only then get them connected with your salesperson Craig Rosenberg writes a Blog called The Funnel holl he says that you can run the best integrated campaign but you will fail if you've not built a lead qualification process that includes a solid lead qualification team now whether you refer to them as Market development reps lead qualification reps lead generators Business Development reps I don't care don't call them inside sales people by the way because they're not they're not inside salespeople they are demand generation folks this is a must you got to have these B2B people on your team today these are the folks that are the true most valuable players in manage managing your sales funnel these are the MVPs and and and tracking performance by the way is essential for making sure that your team is contributing to a healthy funnel so you'll need specific benchmarks with which to measure it against here are some standard data points that that we use and some of our clients use probably most of you on the phone that you use to to keep in mind for building that that All-Star demand generation team the team of mpps I'm talking about this means by the way knowing how hard your reps are working how effective they are at creating high quality opportunities and and what percentage of those lead eventually turn into deals the best way to get the most from your outbound prospecting team or your inbound team is to use data to help you stay on track and then regularly measure your performance against expectations this way you can easily demonstrate to your team and other members of your company how effective your prospecting has been and what you're doing to continuously improve it you should use reporting and dashboard tools maybe gamification to help you track your performance in these areas but make sure that you're tracking the three most important areas activity productivity and process now over the past few years there's been an explosion in technology and tools to help marketing teams perform at at top levels in fact four years ago there were less than a hundred companies in that marketing technology sector today the landscape includes almost 1,900 now here's a few by the way and this this is not a uh an endorsement for all of these we use many of these very very well and if you can I encourage you to do the same Scott Brinker by the way is the the foremost U marketing Tech blogger that I know and you can find his insights at Chief march.com uh so if you want to go find these and those other 1,876 Technologies I spoke about he's got some really cool infographics that that'll show the uh the evolution of marketing technology now what's what's obviously missing from this very short list is marketing automation with more with more than a hundred options today I strongly encourage you to dig into your process first and make sure that it fat y accomplishes everything you need to find connect and convert a suspect to a prospect to an opportunity to a client so do not I repeat do not invest in technology first hoping that your particular demand gen and sales process will adapt it won't if your process is weak then technology will make a whole lot of bad things happen very very quickly some companies by the way get enamored with technology they get so enamored that they tend to make the mistake stake of automating the whole demand generation process I did too early on in fact I bought me some marketing automation several years ago I came back and plugged it into the wall and just sat there rubbing my hands together waiting for all my leaves to come jumping out of the top of the box not only did I learn that there's nothing magical about technology and automation I learned that too many underqualified totally unqualified dead cold recycled leads getting into my sales funnel creating wasted time for my sales team low morale and demotivated closers was killing me so once again without a layer of human intervention in your demand generation process you will fail you'll first stop falling behind competitors will get by you quicker than ever before and then I promise you you will fail and you're talking to someone who did because of this very reason Michael Jordan had Scotty Pippen Batman had Robin and your sales team needs these MVPs in charge of engaging livetime with prospects to address is to address issues challenge their qualification by the way grade their interest and then and only then introduce them to your sales team now if I was going to only show you one slide today and if you were only going to take one slide from the presentation and maybe copy it out and stick it up on your wall somewhere this might be it uh over on the right you see a graphic representation of the webinar we did in building the ultimate funnel just a couple months back and you'll see by the way that that explore research all the way to purchase and use use that's what your prospect is doing so that's not your sales funnel that's their buying process and in that funnel that was represented on the right here's here's what's happening in the generation the demand generation waterfall on the left so it goes from a from a prospect all the way to a closed one or lost client so your prospect often that more often than not by the way is shopping without you they are interacting on your website they're downloading some of your content watching your emails maybe they're even engaging in some social conversations with some of their own trusted or third party resources or reading a Blog they're getting your emails they're there maybe maybe there's phone calls or they've been to an event or a particular campaign but at some point they really do fit either from an implicit and and an explicit standpoint your ideal Prospect profile and maybe through an automation effort their their lead score as they do uh as they do engage more with your brand and as they're downloading that content viewing certain pages um you're developing a lead score for them and once it crosses over a particular threshold they become a marketing qualified lead this is a person that fits our profile this is a person that we should be selling to and we should begin our lead qualification process based on their behavior right now and that's where the rubber meets the road that's that sales accepted lead that's where your MVP of your funnel is now taking the ball and moving it down the court they are there to have conversations to verify the influence of who they're talking to confirm their interest validate that they even should be a client of yours and then guide their journey to a sales repent now it's a sales qualified lead and that salesperson is now adding it to their pipeline it's in their forecast you've got some Revenue attached to that particular opportunity and ultimately you will either win or lose that opportunity by the way you can't win or lose a lead you can wreck them but you can't win or lose them so don't try to close a lead it's it's not ready that's why you have your MVPs in place so once you close that particular opportunity one of three things either happen even the salesperson can say you know what we thought they were ready for us but they can't afford what we do or we thought they were ready for us but they're not really big enough to to to use what we do so we're going to pass that back to marketing let's nurture those a little bit differently uh likewise they go forward and either win that opportunity and it becomes an account for them to then proliferate and either upsell or cross sell or sell a larger Enterprise agreement to or you lose them for whatever reason highly competitive opportunity and you just you just couldn't get it across the the Finish Line you just couldn't get it in the hoop so in both cases you want to analyze what went really really well and what went really really bad the the main point I want to talk about here is you got three opportunities not one not a lead not a list not a name you threw over the fence to a salesperson and said go score but you got three opportunities with which to nurture this particular opportunity the first one may be automatic it may be while they're on your website and your marketing automation technology is running in the background uh and even if you don't they're still they're still doing something in the background maybe talking to a third party person or or talking to one of your current clients on the phone but that's happening without you knowing about it your second opportunity is this this one-to-one relationship it's an email a voicemail a conversation on the phone but it is your MVP your demand gen person engaging one onone not with that lead not with that Prospect but with that human being who is either researching or investigating or or getting ready to buy what you do and then the final and third time you have now an opportunity to nurture them once again so they said they were ready they want to buy your solution can they should they should you even include them in in your client roster so you've got three separate and very important opportunities to nurture that opportunity the middle one is the most important one that's where the rubber meets the road by the way I promise you that if you do some of these things that here are some of the results that you might expect and these are just a few by the way I I could I could give you 10 12 15 but these are a few really important um numbers that I want focus on here and by the way when I when I talk about these numbers I'm talking about our clients I'm talking about ourselves at Sal staff we truly drink Our Own Champaign everything that we do for our clients we we do for ourselves and so we're very very hard on what we do we analyze and we overanalyze and we have a a data type approach to everything that we do our lead conversion rates have improved as our clients have over a 100% in the last several months our average deal size has improved by almost half many of our clients double theirs because they're talking to better prospects and that pipeline velocity ratio number I talked about a couple of very simple incremental pushes of a button or pulling of a of a lever or turning of a dial the simple things if you just do it on the demand gen side our our pipeline velocity rate continues to improve continues to improve month over month after month so think about those numbers and and and uh I think it'll it'll it'll probably spur your your uh your demand gen uh thought process a little bit more so I I for the most part don't read slides I just I just think that's a waste of all of our time but I'm going to make an exception here I think it's really that important David balson who who founded this company sales staff over 20 years ago uh has become one of the the the preeminent speakers and thought leaders in our space uh a true Trailblazer and an innovator and a lot of very uh interesting things that have been proven highly successful in in demand generation in fact just recently we were we were awarded the the 2015 demand generation program of the year so with David at the helm we've accomplished quite a bit David said this and says this and says it often and if you walk the Halls you hear this often telemarketing and cold calling are rapidly becoming extinct who has time by the way none of you people on the phone I'll bet if you look at your calendar right now take a peek I bet you don't have any time slotted today to be cold called nobody takes time on their calendar and sits there waiting to be coold calleded however he says if you build an effective lead generation machine it will drive results even if your salespeople in process aren't perfect even if your salespeople in process are not perfect it can be less than desirable if you have built an effective lead gen machine at Sal staff we have a unique approach to demand generation both for our clients and for ourselves like I said uh we call it allbound 360 and now allbound 360 combines the very best of digital inbound marketing techniques with the human element outbound conversations to connect that last mile of sales opportunities to deliver the sales team that steady stream of qualified prospects uh month after month quarter after quarter Larry Reeves the chief operating officer in EV EVP of sales for the the American Association of inside sales professionals I love what he wrote recently he wrote that lead generation reps who can demonstrate knowledge about the prospect their business and the problems they can help solve will set themselves apart from the crowd and win the respect and business of many so in closing let me encourage you to put an All-Star team of lead qualifiers in place you can do it yourself by the way if you can then do it yourself if you can't then I encourage you to partner with an experienced organization one like sales staff by the way but I encourage you to include these most valuable players on your demand generation machine thanks everyone for spending part of your day with us today best of luck to each of you for for a very strong quarter close and Kelly I'm going to turn it back to you to see if we have any questions okay great thanks Rick like Rick mentioned we are not going to open it up for any questions you may have for him please continue to submit your comments and your questions via Twitter or feel free to use the go to webinar user interface Rick the first question that we have um is is somebody's asking can I just use a good lead scoring system to automate demand generation so can I just use a good lead scoring system to automate demand Generation Well these these are very critical marketing functions but they can never completely replace the human touch never you want to make sure that every single lead that marketing passes to your sales team is as qualified as possible and no automated system no technology no matter how welld designed will do this as well as a human plus having a u having a human interact with with a prospect gives you an opportunity to move the relationship forward not the lead the relationship and this means that your your your business development or your Market response rep they should take the time to to help each Prospect offer them something at Value even if they disengage let them disengage and take away something from having known you you want to make that positive impression upon them that automation can't do uh you want to create future demand even if they're not ready for you now and you want to become that that trusted resource that they they come to so what I'm saying is automation can can uh can add a score and can can do some things but essentially you don't want to treat your leads as as just empty blank faces to be um questioned or harvested you want to be a relationship and a company that is a good match for your solution and even your culture by the way and uh only a human being can help you do that thanks Rick um the next question is which is better Outsource lead qualification or inhouse ah trick question which is better Outsourcing or doing it yourself um so I know what you you're thinking you're going to hear here this is this is a commercial for salaff well I may surprise some of you if you can do it yourself and you can do it in house then do it in house you gain all the uh the the the wonderful uh elements of of of uh Clos Loop feedback uh if you have all your people living in the same office and you have uninterrupted access to to to to people and to feedback and quality this this is the way to optimize the machine uh certainly from a price standpoint uh it it generally is better to Outsource because from an infrastructure standpoint uh when I think about just what we do and i' I've been a part of of you know there's high-tech there's low Tech and Pote you know poch was was me a list you know a list of people on on some uh recipe cards and in a plastic box and a couple people on the phone uh but it worked when when when it was time to do that but not anymore but so from from a from an investment standpoint we we invest a significant amount in in the in the data and the technology driven approach that we have so so in one element if you can do it yourself then do it yourself if you can't if you don't have the the the investment if you don't have the resources the inclination maybe it's not motivated to manage that team because that's a team that has to be managed minute by minute every day you've got to have somebody walking the floor with a clipboard and a and a whistle calling out Cadence to them and finally if you like to have that team um ultimately uh become tomorrow's closers then hire those people and train them to become tomorrow's closers and by the way having done both again good luck with that the DNA of a of a of a basketball score and the DNA of of a basketball dribbler is is slightly different I want my Prospectors and lead lead genen team prospecting and generating demand I want my closers closing very rarely have I been successful and taking a person with the DNA of of a lead gen rep and uh making them become closers it doesn't work and so uh for that for that reason uh if I am going to do it myself I make sure there's a hard separation so if you can do it yourself great if not I encourage you to by the way you don't have to choose sales staff but choose someone somehow and and mind the gap by by putting that that lead gen team in place thank you for the question thanks Rick um we have time for one more question um how big should the lead qualification team be how how big should the league qualific so since this is a basketball theme today I'm guessing that you don't mean in height so should they be 6 foot five or can they be 5 foot six so I'm thinking that you're meaning numbers um the cost of of calling an incremental lead that's not ready to become a sales lead today is very very low versus the cost of not calling a qualified Prospect and missing out on a really really good deal so however you set your lead score or however you set your your qualification process set the bar low enough so that your your business development team can call a lot of people throughout the day and so what that means is you know my bias is towards more lead gen reps than less and depending on on your solution your average sales price and incremental lead generation person on your team can easily pay for herself by uncovering just a couple of incremental deals every month I promise you and and lastly I I'll say you can also approach it by looking at the the ratio of lead generation team members to your quota carrying sales reps at sales staff our our bdr team or our business development lead generation team we we truly generate almost 90% of the sales pipeline so we bias towards a a relatively low ratio and what I mean by that is one lead gen rep for every two or three salespeople and if your marketing team by the way generates fewer leads per sales per per salesperson or if you follow a less exhaustive follow-up sales process or you just don't have the the technology the inclination then ratio can be much higher you can have one to four one to five one to six so that's how I would approach that so uh thank you very much for your questions everyone thank you Rick thanks for your time and thank all of our attendees for for your time as well today and and for joining us if we did not get to your questions um during today's webinar look for a response from us shortly um our winner today for the $50 Amazon gift card and for the awesome tweets is an Cole and we will be reaching out to you shortly via Twitter if you have any further questions please visit sales staff.com or feel free to reach out to Rick personally you can also reach out through social media as always we look forward to hearing from you have a great afternoon thank you everyone um for tweeting with us and and and thanks again have a good afternoon