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that might be one of the biggest misconceptions in marketing is that word sales funnel what does it mean what is it how does it work how would you describe a funnel and how does that play into the whole system of generating clients for you I think of it more as like the this consumer Journey it's really about trying to understand how people are first looking for whether it's you're talking about like quote unquote top of funnel so they're like they're doing research and it's understanding what their need state are at these various stages of quote unquote funnel and so you got to you have to have content and AD creative and tactics for each of these stages and start to understand where the consumer is in that buying Journey but so many people and in my experience they're focused on the top of the funnel or they're focused at the bottom of the funnel but all of that in between that's the part that they forget about and nurturing people through that process like that's the part that seems to be missing most of the time you hit on the head and this is like Advanced marketing at this point once you get through the middle stuff lot of people when they run ads they do marketing they're speaking in a different language than where their potential clients are I just saw this just a couple of days ago one of my friends who I guess hired a marketing company and their marketing company was just shooting these bottom of the funnel ads showing reviews and testimonials and I send a screenshot to him I'm like hey sorry to break the news to these ads are not going to work your marketing guy just doesn't get it he's like what do you mean and I'm like trying to explain to him the different way to talk to people who don't know you versus where they know you and now when they know you you need start speak differently and then now when they're decision stage you need to speak to them differently a lot of people kind of miss these little small little nuances and I'm sure you can attest maybe 10 years ago maybe even five years ago even a couple years ago this could have worked and it was kind of like things were easier back then like Google you just have to put up any ads as long as you put up any AD then it was good enough as long as you were there it was good enough then as long as you had some ad groups and adsets and stuff set up then then you'd be good but these days things have got so competitive and saturated that you really need to be nearly almost with your messaging with your strategy with your structure and everything kind of fine-tuned for it to be working yes again you could get lucky and do well short term but in order for continue doing well by month three four five six you have to continue doing well any thoughts about that well you said another thing that I think is so overlooked but the messaging in the creative matters so much more than people give it credit for people tend to think like I'm just going to I've got to you know get my targeting settings right but the creative makes all the difference and we found this to be true cross Channel but if you spend more time understanding like the why people should hire you answers and then work that into your creative and then of course the other big piece that we we talked about this earlier but like test it right it's like just because you think this or you you know maybe you did some basic research or maybe you some competitive research is that ad actually working another person that that's been on my radar recently I don't know if you're following him closely or not but Alex fosi you know he talks about 20,000 he's like I wouldn't even go into Market without 20,000 ad variations now again I say that people are like we can't do 20,000 even if you're not I know some people they don't like you know the gym type of thing but he is he he does a great job of making the information very accessible I really like all of his stuff and the creative and the testing is so so important you're at a huge disadvantage if you've got one you got one ad creative and you're never testing it and then you're going to conclude the stuff doesn't work and then you're like I don't understand and you know we see that happen all the time do you guys make landing pages and then what's your system for creating good optimized landing pages yeah we we've used a bunch of different platforms we we've had success with lightboard I think they build on I think they're currently building on Insta page but they're they're constantly testing and changing the different platforms but the big the thing that for me on landing pages is it goes back to that same thing that people don't like there are landing page best practices and you can there's things you can test that you'll know like this will work better than this like most of the time for this particular situation but the messaging for the firm like that's the thing that's so so important and so you can do great and not even have best practice landing pages like I'll tell you right you probably see this all the time too but there are some big media some big lead gen buyers in legal that are buying Facebook media and their landing page you look at it and you're just like there's no way this is working and it's working and so I think that's another thing Point too is is that what you think might be working or not working let the numbers tell you let the conversions tell you get the feedback from the users like that's don't don't make it like my landing page looks pretty and I spent you know all this money to make it look like the way I want it to look who cares if anything I think when it comes to conversion it's very counterintuitive as you said a lot of times we look try to make it the nicest looking and usually the nicest looking is not necessarily the highest converting and there's like a a funny line that ugly converts right let's go to how can I rank in Google's search generative experience number one I think it's important for people to realize like SG is only an experimental phase through the end of the year I think a lot of us believe that they're going to launch it into the wild starting in 24 and I would start with good take same thing I would talk about in SEO go try to understand what sge where they're sourcing their data to serve those results but from my limited research on this so far it's a lot of the directory sites they're using the directory sites Maz you can check out MZ had a big study on this and they said like I think it was like 60% or 40% I might be inverting those of the time it actually mimics what's in the current local pack and so some of it's going to be the traditional local pack signals some of it's I think going to be the underlying structured data that they're pulling from like the directories and stuff and some of it I think too because again remember if you think about what these llms are doing they're just guessing based on the prompt or the query in this case what they think is the most likely thing to come next and so Brands tend to do pretty well here because there there's a lot of people that are actually searching and clicking on brand queries that that's why a lot of these bigger legal brands also tend to do better when they come into a new market because they already have people are searching on the brand and people are clicking on the brand because they've seen the offline media but so it's a hard question to answer because again it's it depends on kind of where you are what your practice area is what's your visibility right now but I would still continue to focus know get the word out get the machines knowing about who you are are you listed on Wikipedia are you listed in these directories are you publishing on these sites and then understand where they're sourcing that data it's best I can tell you found good that people are like stingy with their posts like should I post this should I not I'm like who cares post what do you got to lose and I feel like a lot of people don't because they're like looking to get at least a certain number of likes or comments engagement if they don't then I guess they get but hurt about it and then all people they don't like it all all I would say is like yeah that that's great you just learned something right that whatever you posted maybe try something different but yeah I'm with you and people ask me like what platforms you post on I'm like look I'm like you know again resource dependent but in a perf in a in a resource Limitless World post everywhere right I mean what do you have to lose it's literally free you got nothing to lose to gain and there's also hidden engagement which a lot of people don't talk about just because it doesn't get likes and comments doesn't mean it's not watched and consumed and actually does gets what it supposed to do and it takes absolutely and it's it's not just like one content you just create one content and all a sudden people are gonna come message you hey can you hire me it's that consistent attitude over long term that leads to the result that you're seeking for absolutely regy just a super longterm game zero feelings towards anything short term but that kind of attitude really brings the results that we know and expect and even if we don't expect this is this is it yeah no again I mean that's that's the funny thing I tell people too it's like people are like oh that's boring there's no like magic or silver bullets here and I'm like like think bigger think long term think about what you're putting out into the world and the world will give you back if they like what you're putting out