Enhance your sales with sales performance automation for Sales

How to create outlook signature

hey everybody's Brian burns and welcome to this episode of the b2b revenue leadership podcast today we got a great entrepreneur somebody who can scratch his own itch came up with a dialling system a a way of integrating the telephone into the CRM and being able to determine who most likely is going to be available and connect that person up with the salesperson so that salespeople don't have to do all of that searching and determining who to call and what they care about and what the priority should be the founder of dial sources joining us josh is gonna tell us his story before we get into it I want to make sure you're going to be to be revenue calm and registering there check out all the good stuff the blog the podcasts everything that's new over there this week also have the nudge training all you have to do is go to my LinkedIn profile you'll see how I use AI to fill up my pipeline and crush my number the course is free to the podcast listener the coupon is the word nudge to make sure you enter that so you don't get charged and that's it let's get into the interview I'll sum it up at the end hey Josh thanks for joining us today as a way of getting started tell us about yourself thank you very much is absolute pleasure to be here well I'd say for the last 15 years I've really dedicated my life since school on building out interesting infrastructure architecture as it relates to communication analytics and automation and I've been fortunate enough over the last 15 years to work on tackling some of these problems with some of my closest friends from college and some might have close friends even before that and we really have been able to build an interesting product and an interesting technology by pursuing our passion at how to get interested in this you know was a combination of curiosity inexperience and I say some over-ambitious Drive perhaps I was doing it or series of internships throughout Wall Street while doing my undergraduate University of California and in learning a sales process these techniques and applying economics and computer science background I stumbled into making outbound calls in sales and service research for these internships and I quickly realized the fundamental problem how difficult it was to find a live person and have a relevant conversation with when you're calling by hand and then to take it another step further what you did and if you were just getting up to learn it was very difficult to have successful cadence in that pitch and from there and probably a handful of beers on a patio in college I convinced a handful of buddies that there was a better way than the standard predictive dialer that could be used to make these high outbound volume calls but had this very in intimate experience and really started out with the theology of this which turned into a paper that was published while an undergrad at the University of California and later down the road we then decided to pursue that paper and start building some initial prototypes of what then became known as the refractive dialer in the very early 2000s yeah because that was the time when everybody was basically adopting CRM before then everyone had it but no one used it yeah still very early Salesforce Commons founded in 1999 so you're talking early 2000 still CRM and cloud especially in the enterprise was a relatively new new thing I mean cloud existed for Amazon and for other applications but yes to your point CRM back then 10 12 years ago was a very different animal than it is today yeah you don't see I mean I remember back then you know companies owned it but you know is the type of thing that you know once a month or once a Friday people updated it so the forecast could become out of it as a spreadsheet and yes it wasn't nevermind the ability to have power dialer or any kind of integration with the phone even the ecosystem the app exchange you know didn't really exist back then it was still in its infancy so that whole ability to tie products and build product a solution to work within what became the CRM and platform was still very very early so you clearly saw a problem and I saw a problem that result that revolved around the fact that I could not make enough calls to the right people and have relevant conversations as an individual and I thought if I've had this problem then there were likely other individuals that have this problem but I had no idea the size and scope of the actual problem only with a couple interns internships under my belt still still in school and so that became a fascinating problem that the deeper we go with engineering and economic backgrounds the larger the problem became and the more difficult and associated solution we basically spent the next ten years building and solving for that problem while also kind of meddling around with business component basically keep the lights on the servers running but really focusing on the engineering side of things for ten straight years and that was really what became a large differentiator between the Polish paper the prototype and then that was a leading class solution within enterprise organizations all over the world so you know that's it how did you keep the lights on did you have a handful of you know customers that you bought into this vision that you had been working with you know very tightly uh yeah it was this kind of amalgamation the prototype being built in my home office with some friends that I was using in internships which then I positioned it into real estate as that was a market that was we were catching the tail end of sort mid-2000s in a recessionary period but we started I started selling the product in his very early stages to real estate and sure brokers throughout Northern California within a couple within our first year we did six figures and in revenue and that was enough to go from a few heads to a few more heads from other friends from other UC campuses and we were basically all engineers I was primary sales I was taking out the idea and the product onto the streets and knocking on office doors or making those calls on our own product of book meetings and that went on for several years we kind of just hovered and they the very very low seven-figure revenue stream but that was enough for us to slowly grow our headcount fund our research and development we were unique in the fact that we were designing our own hardware and our own carrier network and our own software at the same time which is a very expensive endeavor at all measures opportunity cost time dollars but that allowed us to really focus on the problem and building a solution to that problem as opposed to the typical modus operandi oh I've got an idea let me go raise some funds and now I have a whole other goal set of I've got to make my investors happy as opposed to being very myopic on problem solution and that allowed us to really focus on technology and the application of this custom technology wrapped around very large complicated problems well take us through a couple of those the ones that are the hairiest that you guys really excel that sure overly consider our company over the last better part of a decade and a half over three major inflection points there's really the college paper that turned into the refracting panel prototype and the initial problem we were solving at that point was the mathematical and fundamental problem of a predictive dialer how when everybody's received a call in sales you pick up the phone you hear nothing for a few seconds then a beeper click and somebody's on the phone trying to sell you something I got this call just the other day and it was 20 seconds before I heard my first one phone this was early as we expect this problem still exists so we were the first to mathematically solve that latency so we could use algorithmic decisions to get live people on the phone instantaneously so the refractive dollars making calls here on a list you can answer the phone I would hear you on the phone instantaneously and see all the information within let's say Salesforce on that conversation and so that's how we initially started having a targeted approach of large outbound call volume without introducing the fundamental technological flaw of dead air and latency and that was the first probably 5 or 60 years of our organization and as we started to go from small medium business the mom-and-pop the five and 10 and the 20 and then the 50 user businesses and as CRM itself grew and as we had unique ability to build this custom and native technology we had unique view points into the problems that all kinds of businesses were trying to solve where there was professional sports as clients or nonprofits or technology companies that there seems to be a large disconnect and a disparity between the phone system that sits on the desk the CRM system the database which it sits upon and the other related systems and so we moved into our next generation of technology called dial source in the late 2004 on the 2008-2009 timeframe we released it and that product shifted and built upon the original premise but now we were focusing on deriving data from the phone itself and the conversation and passing that data into CRM salesforce.com and then creating automation analytics and deep reporting on things like how many people do we have to call before we have a conversation when we do have a conversation with that leader contact how long did we speak to them as relates to what product or service and from that data we within sequence deep layers of automation which are the bane of the sales verses existence which is after I have a conversation good or bad I may have to do 5 10 or 15 things in CRM in the conversation like updating fields sending emails maybe convert the lead into an account slope when a revenue opportunity and we realized it was not only problematic and time-consuming for the rep but the opportunity cost of the rep getting the next solid lead our contact on the phone and so we started realizing was the reps didn't want to take the time to log the activities within the CRM yet management and executives were spending fortunes literally on technology to try and gain insight and intelligent from rep behavior so that they can then use things like AI to predict how to sell and service when we started realizing that it was completely disparate the Cisco desk phone the power dialer they were not passing information of CRM so for the next three or four years we started releasing this unique solution and wound up dominating on the Salesforce AppExchange and even today it's it says the number one rated communication system worldwide for Salesforce it's the number two rated support application for Salesforce but I believe were the sixth ranked application in all categories of Salesforce and it really is because we're solving these disparate problems even forwarding to more calm started to leave before needs more current in today's solution we realized we had to take those time to put base from our dialer solution and then translate them into inbound phone calls in deep automation and analytics and the customer engagement and not only do we need to drive these data points and how we're calling leads and contacts but how all that information has to intelligently route in when a contact with an open revenue opportunity calls in we make sure to leverage all this data and get that leader contact to the right person on our team and that is a new way in which large organizations are improving sales and service experiences while also increasing output of their sales team and requiring their letant of reps to do and interact less and CRM even though that sounds a bit counter into it well it sounds like you're biting off a lot doesn't it it does it does but that's that's what we've been around for the last a better part of fifteen years and so it's been an evolution over time not just we've been around for the last twenty four thirty six months tackling a lot and and what does it look like today is it a cloud service is it a piece of hardware what is a combination or from the from a client's perspective is completely 100% cloud-based whether it's for salesforce.com or whether it's for Microsoft Dynamics is minutes to configure and it's probably hours to deploy across large organizations because of the fact it's talked about it native within the CRM so it means that we sit with inside sales ORS were adhering to profiles two roles two permissions two page layouts to make sure that all this configuration that an organization has already done in Salesforce or Microsoft we can take advantage of not have an external integration and another web portal that a manager or admin has to configure outside of their CRM and then figure out like a Lego piece how to snap into their existing business processes and because we come right in and sit within it it's very easy to deploy even though the technology can help to scream line quite a lot across entire sales or service teams and who falls in love with it is if the rep is that the managers at both it's a great question so it brings me to one of the top tracks that I unfound on right now which is I really think that the last ten years of CRM has been built around the executive and around a manager so that they can try and gain intelligence and what's happening in the CRM it also brings me to another fundamental point that I don't necessarily believe that dials equal dollars this smile and dial mentality has evolved and I believe that conversations create with relationships and relationships throughout a revenue opportunity and so we can use actionable intelligence and we can use automation to get the right leads and right contacts on the phone we can drive those intimate conversations so in a roundabout way to answer that question what happens is we believed technologies you to facilitate the increase of rep output with less time and energy but that Demma comp which is what management wants by increasing output and login so initially its sales leaders that come to dial source that are looking to bring the data from the phone calls into CRM automate these processes log them into CRM and track how many conversations we need to have for how long before we drive and manage revenue what happens from the rep side is they're no longer fighting with 15 different tabs in their browser and their phone and then logging activities so reps drive adoption of our platform in unprecedented case as a result of being able to increase their output which drives more sales and commissions while making their lives simple and easier along the way and by identifying what the top reps are doing and saying in CRM and then automating those processes and procedures we can take that bottom 1/3 of reps that might struggle with process and procedure or maybe not learn quite as fast and automate the best processes from our top one-third and then bring up the entire output of our sales teams which has this very deep moral strengthening within large organizations and whether we're representing the thing of a big like the ATP's that have more than a thousand users on our platform growing like crazy or whether it's the large sports organizations like the Madison Square Garden or the Sacramento Kings and the 49ers we see this effect happen time and time again well that's it because free you know the last couple years a lot of people been focusing on you know the integration of the email into the CRM so that you know there weren't as many steps but the phone was always the you know off to the side that required the rep to do a whole lot of work and it really comes down to the fact how difficult it is like when you think about a web application or email if I send you an email and there's a hiccup my internet or your internet you just require e the server and re pull down the packets when you arrive on a live conversation I can't require eat what you said a billionth of a second ago the level of compliance necessary to manage a carrier network is much higher than that I believe of just a web application itself and so the barriers to entry and the difficulty to scale from SMB to enterprise level communications is in my opinion again extremely difficult and are you seeing traction on the on the surface side as well call centers to you know on the customer service side absolutely so when we when we started out in that first iteration even when we were in the second iteration I dialed the source for Salesforce it was outbound dialing deep automation deep analytics and that was generally for sales we started learning that there were other aspects that led in both sales and service things like renewals and account retention where we started seeing organizations make outbound aisles to contacts perhaps with an open technical case as it relates to an effort to do say let's get this client's problem solved so they can then look go buy more product from us and so we have more clients saying gee a dial source we love all this automation analytics on the outbound side is providing all this insight to us but we're flying in the dark for inbound phone calls somebody calls in they have to hit the phone tree press 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 navigate through the phone tree and then we have to introduce ourselves and ask them who they are look them up and CRM and then ask what we can do for them and so in the new reiteration of now source which has been out for the last year and a half or two Denali we solved that problem by flipping our technology in the elbow so when Brian calls in to dial source we would recognize your phone number against a contact with an open opportunity related to an account that I Josh own I have the skills and Salesforce or Microsoft rollout in my profile I'm available to take a call I'm on the right team and it pops up in CRM on my screen with the name the phone number and when I click answer down source presents me all that information on the screen in real time and this is twofold in the fact that one from the customer engagement and experience they're no longer spending four or five minutes self sourcing information through that IVR poetry only to the spending out for five minutes explaining to the ref who they are and what they want with our solution in this inbound ability to dynamically and real-time identify information in the CRM and around it intelligently means we're improving and flattening the customer engagement for a service experience and improving the experience for the rep on the output side of things and when you really think about it they're gonna be sales or service may be I called you three times as a lead we had one really good conversation he said I need to think about this I'm budgeting right now our fiscal opens up in the next two weeks you call me back in five days I need to know when we had those conversations that there's an opportunity about to occur and have that intelligent conversation so I can be an inbound phone call when you say all right I ran the budget I'm ready to go give me an extra 5% deal and I'll sign it today that's an inbound phone call and then the dial source dispositions and automation could open that revenue opportunity create a task for our implementation or customer success management team to on the word and welcome you as a net new account and then of course once you become an account there's gonna be calls out to say hey our engineering teams released all kinds of new stuff let's get you on a call so we can walk you through it or maybe you are having a technical issue or you're having a new rep being on where to eat call us we need to be identified by this stream of data as it relates to outbound calls for sales and service and inbound calls for sales of service because the lines are blurring between a sales team and just net new and increasing and expanding product and service and and what our sales leaders not getting about this do they just not know that it's available that technology is kind of leapfrogged what they thought a power dialer was I says it's all of all the components as you mentioned to a degree and several others one of one of the big issues is that even with the best intent a lot of organizations that have adopted CRM over the years that have changing headcount at CRM has gotten to kind of messy over time and a bit bloated and so if that is the case that also affects the ecosystem of tools and technologies that they can address and so I think that's a current challenge within CRM itself is kind of taking this minimalistic approach to making sure that your engine is running smooth the fluids are getting changed on a regular basis like one look for the engine of their call you know that wouldn't it wouldn't let their Toyota go five years without servicing it I think that's an issue that requires some attention and prevents people from making change and makes them risk-averse I think one of the other issues is and maybe the most important issues is the fear of adoption of technology by the sales team as in this context what I mean by that that is we from I'm using we as an example just as any company acts we've adopted five pieces of technology that cost us a lot of money over the last twenty four months and we didn't have great adoption of the technology across any other Epstein's and so we don't have the insight that we tried to gain even though we spent all the money on it and so I think oftentimes it's underestimated the importance of not just adopting technology but also thinking through operational and procedural changes to match that new technology and that's a challenging thing and we've learned over the last decade and a half of our own success in growth that we've had to build a deep customer success management teams and implementation teams because we see so much of this across so many organizations we want our clients to know that we're extremely experienced in this and we have deep relationships in organizations that have succeeded in us to help mitigate those fears but those are those are a couple of big ones I'm also obviously complexity of phone systems is intimidating to many people because it's just a complicated thing of Pandora's Box let's say uh landlines and cell phones or bring your own devices and a sunsetting type of desk phones and that's a complicated issue that is not getting I don't think enough attention on how to properly solve this complicated problem and that I think is scary to a lot of organizations and who's the ideal client for you as as crazy as it may sound it's any organization that's making or receiving phone calls that's either using Microsoft Dynamics or salesforce.com as their system of record on whether they have Cisco phones or cell phones or they use VoIP it's irrelevant for hardware and software agnostic field sales inside sales save for service and we have a broad footprint whether it's large players across Wall Street or across Silicon Valley or or or big nonprofits like American Diabetes Association the commonality is these organizations have sales and service teams that are making phone calls driving and servicing product that you CRM to capture this information and the disparity between the systems means reps are not taking the time to accurate log everything they're doing and that is not creating intelligent reports in CRM for management to make more rapid accurate and intelligent decisions so anybody that's looking to solve these type of problems or fantastic people or organizations that have injury dialogues into what are you currently capturing in your sales and service process is it just the amount of dials one makes within the team are you looking to gain more insight like how many conversations do we have on average and how long the conversations last before a product has is closed one and when that type of questions start coming up those become the really qualified on organizations to dive into the intelligence behind the call and for the sales leaders that are listening to this and they say wow I didn't even know about this how do they go about learning more about it we can be reached on all different channels obviously the main one being dial source comm you engage directly with the service teams on our site like I mentioned earlier in our chat we're on the Salesforce app exchange is one of the top solutions so you can find us there we are beginning to do these thought leadership pieces where we are bringing some of our top clients into webinars to talk about when you had this problem for several hundred reps how did you go about thinking about it how did you go about solving it what were the challenges and we want to be able to breathe this experience and bubbling up to the top so other organizations that are starting to have those questions and concerns can use the resources of the ecosystem we've worked very diligently to build over the last decade and a half so we we'd be happy to have conversations in regard academically practically etc as you can tell josh is clearly a man on a mission and he's really just crushing the old-school alternatives that you see out there from like inside sales it's like they just taken their market away it's such a much better product a better solution it's kind of the next generation of this type of dialing capability of putting the phone and the CRM connected together so that salespeople don't have to enter all this data you know I just remember when you know every company demanded you use the CRM this happened you know almost 10-15 years ago before then everyone kind of ignored it and just used spreadsheets and had a checkbox item that yeah yeah we have a CRM yeah and somebody put something into it but this is really the smart way to do it today and it's working really well for his clients he's got huge clients Madison Square Garden Wow I mean these huge companies with big call centers but it can also work for smaller ones as well that want to just be able to make the phone a very powerful capability within their selling system so make sure you check it out dial source.com they've got quite a bit of information there a lot of webinars and ebooks to learn about exactly how it all works and how you can get the benefit of it hey did you check out last week's episode had the CMO from Ghana oh man hat man is on a mission he he's moving to San Francisco from Israel and he has the attitude that I want to hear from with CMOS and it's just fantastic you know really wants to make that revenue contribution and dominate his market segment so to make sure you're checking that out also check out the the course how I use AI to fill up my pipeline it's free with the coupon nudge just and make sure you enter that when you check out and make sure the balance is zero so there's gonna be no refunds that if there's any mistakes I just don't have time for it but also check out the other two courses start the conversation and get the meeting is just cooking our office hours this last week you know one one person in there had been trying to get in front of this VP for two years used my system got it has a lunch meeting coming up with them a lunch meeting really that's all yeah with an email no phone no nothing a one-line email he gets that type of results that's what I'm talking about is a new no it's not a new way it's the old way is selling human to human and understanding how to connect and engage with people not this this endless you know pitching that just doesn't work anymore also if you if you got a sales team and you want to learn how the complex sale really works inside your customers company and how do you control that how do you add direction momentum and control check out that my my course closing the complex sale it's a year-long course where I take you through your deals we dissect them and I show you exactly what to do how to prevent all the things that are gonna go wrong you know they're gonna happen it's too hard to repair there's you can repair them but it's really hard it's like you know once you bend a piece of metal is really hard to get it back to the way it used to be but it sure is easy to prevent that bending of the metal also connect up with me on LinkedIn Brian G burns on LinkedIn the YouTube channel maverick method on YouTube that lots of funny stuff coming out there also follow me on LinkedIn I put out a funny video every morning around 10:30 Eastern Time also got lots of you know pulse posts there and the brutal truth about sales and selling have your sales team listen to that we're talking about what's going on in q2 and how do you really manage q2 differently than the rest of the other quarters of the year and maximize your number also the producer of madman the TV show an advertising veteran who turned TV producer who now has his own agency and wrote a book about how to persuade people really interesting guy one of my favorite interviews it's coming up on this show probably within a week so stick tight make sure you connect up with me thanks for listening and tell a friend about the b2b revenue leadership podcast at b2b revenue com