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Hello and welcome to today's webinar  shaping the EU's digital future with   process automation my name is Ursula  Cullen and I'll be your host for today.   Before we get started I'd like  to introduce you to our speakers   I'm delighted to be joined by James Moran, Head  of Task Force at CPVO. Irish native James has been   working with the European Institute since 1999 and  having previously worked in Consulting with Ernest   and Young in Ireland he is a chartered accountant  and holds further qualifications in audit and   information technology he has been working at the  CPVO since 2008 firstly as an accountant later as   head of the administration unit and most recently  as head of task force with the remit to digitize   processes and prepare for new ways of working  throughout the agency. Welcome James. Katarina   K joins us from the European Banking Authority her  role as Head of Corporate Support. She tries to   motivate people with a set of teams and services  endorsing the EU HR financial and procurement   rules while driving projects that promote  sustainability and handle change management   processes she steers several committees related  to selection procedures public procurement and   an EU approach to building a dynamic workplace  facing the immediate and emerging challenges at   present from Rapid technology advancement and  digital transformation to changing workplace   structures and the climate crisis welcome  Katarina and finally I'd like to introduce you   to my colleague Aaron Fulton from flow former  Aaron is a highly skilled professional and in   the IT industry Works closely with EU agencies to  empower them with no code process automation tools   to achieve serious Savings of speed welcome  everyone and thank you for joining us today. Now I'd like to pass over to our panel as they  discuss their thoughts and opinions of the   current digital state of EU to EU agencies and the  possible changes they think we'll see in terms of   adopting technology our new digital strategies  across the EU so Aaron I'll hand over to you   thank you very much Ashley uh firstly  James Carolina you're really welcome   um really appreciate you giving up your time and  share your expertise and experience in this space   initially we're just going to probably kick off  with the initial 10 to 15 minute conversation   just around the state of play where we are  currently uh Katarina maybe if I can bring you   in at this stage just to give a better context  around your perception of the the culture of   innovation that collaborative workspace and how  that has evolved over maybe the last three years   you know thank you Aaron um so facing  the pandemic um at our workplace at the   European banking Authority and we we took  us much as everybody had to deal with and   we saw the whole world of the work changing and  all of this pandemic that has accelerated the   trends towards flexibility and digitalization  so uh we were United all the European agencies   together and with this year of the European  commission and that we saw them being the   front runner in the transition to this change we  saw them launching the HR strategy in April 2022   and they have preached their objectives  that we have adapted also in our agency um if you want me to talk a bit more about the  objectives of this strategy is um that we wish   to digitalize as much as possible our processes  and build up a green and administration so this   is the objective for the coming months yeah no  that's completely resonates from that perspective   um and just in terms of the the bring you into  Stage James just in terms of sort of attracting   and this just won't be a EU specific problem from  our point of view but in terms of it attracting   skill sets um and keeping the skill sets um I  want to just maybe just give some context around   the challenges that you face here yes thanks  Aaron and it's a pleasure to be here first of   all I fully agree with uh what's already been  said we're in the same situation when it comes   to the skill set it's very very difficult the  environment is very difficult especially for IT   staff we've been struggling now I think I could  say we've been struggling for the best part of   10 years and I see it getting worse and worse as  time goes on to get qualified I.T developers in   particular but project managers and so on so it's  it's um it's a it's a very difficult environment   so that's the context we're operating in when it  comes to uh advancing and trying to create lean   environments and so on it's difficult to get the  stuff you need to do the work that we need I'm   katharina from your perspective obviously within  the EPA which would have a slightly larger head   point would that still be the case as well whereby  attracting and retaining Talent is still difficult   yes so we have the same problem because now  that we have the hybrid way of working uh people   hesitate to move around in Europe so they prefer  to find a work close to their Homeland and they   hesitate to join and take new opportunities while  relocating of course the challenges have increased   the bigger you are the bigger challenges you have  so we have exactly the same difficulties as James   has just described yeah yeah as I said it's just  not common just to the agencies it's across the   world it's a global it's a global issue at that  stage I was right at the stage in that perspective   um but just in line with that obviously there's EU  directives that have come in place with regards to   the European code of Auditors reports um that have  been issued with regards to strategic direction   that needs to be in place for 2023 just from your  perspective Katarina and your understanding of   that's what What will what will that mean and  what will that look like in that initial stage   yeah so indeed the European Court of Auditors  they have audited the European institutions   in 2022 and their conclusions were that the  institutions have responded very well to the   pandemic however they need to enhance the business  continuity plans and they need to further develop   the digitalization of administrative services and  assess the suitability of new ways of working in   the post covid-19 environment that means that we  have to do more Investments we have to train our   staff and we have to reskill and reskill them  and find new competencies for them so we have   to work now towards this direction yeah and we  would typically fine with inflow former that a   lot of the EU agencies along the workflows are  very very similar um irrespective of the cpbo   European Bank agency set of four etc etc um  is there any sort of initiatives whereby the   different agencies are working collaboratively  to share include resources um on it projects yes if I may say uh but um really uh not very big  one we have the commission who is launching a big   procurements and the way the agencies We join  them and this is the great opportunity because   we can get you know different platforms and we  can work with that otherwise we do really small   collaborations between the agencies we don't  have yet the possibility to extend it further   yeah um okay look that gives us a bit of an  understanding a bit of a context with regards to   where we are as I say the problems that that are  facing within the UE agencies aren't specifically   EU tied that they're Global we see them across  Health public sector uh education more or less all   verticals that we work in from that perspective  so it's a challenge that's here currently and   it's also gonna uh remain to the four um for the  distant future maybe if we can just move Slade and   just sort of go into looking at your specific uh  case study team just around how you're using full   format to give a bit more context um if you can  just move that on to the next slide please Arsenal   oh yeah if we can just maybe just kick off  James just so you can just maybe just give   us a brief oversight with regards to who  the cpv or are your ruler and the chat the   initial challenge is that motivated you to  sort of start looking in the digital space   sure all right we can we can move on to the next  slide maybe and I'll give you just some brief   background so we're one of the older agencies  if I can say that we're around since 1995   we're not the oldest I think we had agencies in  the 70s but we're one of the the ancient ones   we're based in France in the west of France in  Andre um and I think all the EU agencies are set   up to do very specific tasks and it's the case  for us as well so our task is to manage uh an   intellectual property rights system for new  plant variety so it's a very specific remit   um as with all agencies we have the governance  we have the administrative Council we have our   president we have a specificity in CBO  in that we're a few receiving agencies   so we have clients applicants that come to  us they pay us money and we don't receive   money from the European commission to run so we're  completely self-financed my own role in the agency   I mean most recently in the introduction you  mentioned this Ursula mentioned this I've taken   over the role as task manager it's really to be  involved in transformation projects because one   of the key elements of our strategic plan is  to move into lean thinking and organizational   excellence and and so on so that's really uh what  I'm doing at the moment it's quite an interesting   task maybe if we move on to the next slide because  you mentioned about challenges now here this is a   little bit of a cliche the the first challenge  that I put on on the screen increasing workload   and decreasing resources I'm not sure there's an  organization in the world that wouldn't answer   the same thing and all right agencies are in  the same position we're under pressure from all   directions to be as efficient as we can and that's  that's normal um we've already spoken about the   difficulty with hiring and in particular with it  developers so this is a very very big problem for   us especially as a small agency when when I get  into the details of why we went for something like   flow Forma I mean we have processes and there  quite a few of them are inefficient with a lot   of excel based email processes we have people  calling sometimes it's nothing written it's   just not standardized anywhere so we had this  issue that was starting to become problematic   um another thing and this is more of a ease of  use and functionality is to have we didn't have   a One-Stop shop for dealing with workflows we  have various different tools we have some tools   that are provided by the European commission for  human resources for example and we're happy to use   those because they're standardized and they're  it's less work for us but for our own workflows   we we didn't have this coherence we were missing  that um I like to call them the orphan workflows   that we have the ones where we don't have an  IT application specific for that but we have   requests we have workflows that need to be taken  care of and we had nothing to bring that together   um Katarina has already mentioned the covet issue  so we had challenges around covet that became   very apparent to the practices in remote working  weren't supported and it became clear because in   the past we had situations where you could walk  to the office next door and ask what do I do for   this procedure and you were told so when you move  to a remote environment when you get into remote   working we need suitable tools to deal with that  and that relates to business continuity issues   um and again I I'll come back to the challenge  I started with this the I.T staff and it's not   simply hiring them but the fact that  we can't hire means that we needed to   find a solution that made us a little bit  more independent of the development side   and uh that's the they were the pressures iron  that we had um when it comes to the processes   that we have in the CPU and you've mentioned this  even though we're a small organization we have   all the same processes as a bigger organization  such as the EBA or even such as the European uh   institutions in Brussels ing to the European  Commission in Parliament and so on so we have uh   processes for HR and so you can see on the screen  internal control accounting legal everything um so   these were the key challenges we we faced in this  regard yeah um and you touched on me in a previous   conversation yes you've got HR systems and you've  got Finance systems in place but really it's a   system that plugs the gaps outside of that from  that perspective isn't it James whereby you need   something that's customizable that can be designed  specifically to what you're trying to achieve yes   indeed and I mean I'm I'm very happy with the  support we get from the central institutions   they give us a very good HR System that does let's  say 80 of what we need very well and standardized   similarly for financing various different things  but they because they're doing it for so many   institutions they simply cannot customize for each  individual agency and each of the the different   sets of needs that agencies would have so there  is a big gap um our approach with it has always   been if somebody else can give it to us all  the better we'll take it if it's software as a   service we'll go for that before we'll develop  developing is the last thing we wanted to do   um but there is a big void outside these  applications that we get centrally outside the the   other applications that other agencies could give  us and that's the void we had to fill yeah 100   makes sense because ultimately you don't want to  be writing code where you don't have to from that   perspective um and just the last point on that is  I remember when I had the initial conversations uh   with your at lead at that time and he was looking  at full form I obviously could write code from   that perspective but he was very very mindful at  the time that he needed to put a solution in place   that was correct for cpv always as opposed to what  would be correct for somebody in it that wanted to   sit and write code um so again it makes sense 100  with regards to the same scale of the organization   and that you put a tool in place that can be used  by business users outside of that arena with it   no that gives really really good contact with  regards to how you're using it um actually if   you can move on to the next slide please um and  in terms of your requirements when looking for   a process automation so we've sort of touched on  this um just at a high level in the previous slide   but maybe if you can move on to the next slide  urson James can just flesh that out a bit yeah   sure and I mean the the answer here is split  between two sides so the platform requirements   um we're we're obviously Microsoft users so  something that fit well with the Microsoft   universe and such so SharePoint is it's Central  to the way we do work internally it's our intranet   um we use it for various different things so  that was a key requirement security I mean this   is again this is something for every organization  not just agencies we have additional requirements   when it comes to data Protection security  had to be there so whatever the solution   what is needed to do that numerous levels so not  just in the workflow itself but also in how we   store the data and how we interact with the data  afterwards through SharePoint in this case lists   when it when it comes to the process requirements  again we're back to this issue we don't have so   many I.T staff so we needed it to be a tool  that let's say a good business uh user could   use themselves so somebody in an operational area  could say okay I can build this with some training   um I have to I have to admit initially  I thought this was a pipe dream that we   could get people that were in the operations to  build their own processes but it actually worked   um other requirements it needs to be easy to use  once it's set up in terms of an artsy follow-ups   and emails um the main idea of the process  for us is approvals workflows so that's the   key reason we use it but not the only reason  template generation because we have a lot of   documents standard documents that are recreated  and we've been losing them and people didn't know   where they were so they have a central tool that  would generate that automatically uh the other   requirement that we had was links and I think  this this is important for everybody who goes   down this route we still need to link flow format  to our accounting software to generate invoices or   commitments which is a budgetary element that  we use in the agencies and the institutions   um also for documentation signatures we use  a company called which is actually   supported by flow former and that's fully  integrated in there but also things like   archiving and various other tools the need for API  functionality was very important for us because   it also future proves things for us that we can  link flow format to whatever comes in the future   so there were there was a brief summary of the  requirements that we had and how many people James   do you have trained in the use of reformer Within  cpvo uh we we started very slowly we started with   um there were one 190 person and two others  but I think we were up to about eight or nine   people and we're doing more training in fact next  month we have some more people than in particular   and human resources that are getting into this  we're small agencies we have 50 staff so we're   looking at maybe 20 of our staff being trained  on full format in 2023 and I would see that   increasing going forward um I I don't see anybody  in the agency that couldn't benefit from the two   in their day-to-day work afterwards it's a  question of time availabilities and different   things but it's it's in our plans to keep rolling  this out to other stuff and that's an incredible   figure isn't it when you think about it literally  20 of the workforce could be trained in how to use   um a process automation tool again from  initial conversations that we've had previously   it's very very important that when you train  staff that they start to use the tool more or   less straight away is the product perspective  yeah I mean this is this is I think it goes   for every every uh training that we do in  particular with it you need to get into it   the next day you need to have a use case and put  it in place um you have the usual element of if   you don't choose it in the first week you'll  forget a little bit and it goes time goes on   um so we with the people that have been trained up  until now we have asked them to go ahead more or   less immediately and put something in place it  can be a simple slot but to keep things moving   um and it's it's working it's working that's  really really important and then also just   on the page where you touched around the the API  integration piece it's really from our perspective   what we find it's important to have a tool that's  intuitive and easy to use for staff but then also   that it has that complexity and that ability  to incorporate those Enterprise features as and   when required from that point you never lead with  integration but it's important to know that the   functionality is there yeah indeed and one thing  we've seen the way we do the apis um without going   into too much technical detail we've done it in a  way that makes it straightforward for for the user   to manage so for example if we have um an invoice  is to be created flowformer can update a list and   then there's an alternation that that list will  generate the invoice so the person actually using   flow former all they need to know is you update  that line in the SharePoint list and the invoice   will be taken care of and it's relatively easy to  put in place afterwards there is some I.T work in   the background but I think it's upfront work to  make sure that the key apis work and once that's   done it's it's straightforward but it was it was  very low level uh work by I.T in that sense yeah   very very small amount of support that's required  just at that initial that initial aspect of it   um but no look that's really really powerful  though it gives us an understanding with   regards to the security aspect is going to be  really important maybe just again from your   perspective Katrina I would envisage just within  your particular agency security again would be   of incredible importance with  regards to that data control aspect   yes definitely this is a I  think I'm a across all the uh UEFA you know it's a mandatory requirement  let's say so yeah we have a specialized expert   our I.T security expert and he's uh checking  everything before we sign any agreement about   um developing IIT applications in our agency  so yeah yeah the from a flow forward point   the fact is James touched on it is installed  inside your environment James so all the data   all the documents reside there which tends  to be a really really strong tdpr please   personally if you can move  on to the next slide please   okay and James maybe if you can just tell us about  the processes that you've automated and ideally   where you plan to pivots in the future sure um  maybe I I'd start this Slide by saying start   simple was the approach we've taken with the slow  form and I think it worked the first completed   process we put in place it's called exceptions and  error reports now this is um under our regulations   and for all of the agencies we're very rules  based in the institutions so we have Financial   regulations and we have basic regulations in each  agency and various different rules that we have   to abide by but we can't always abide by every  Rule and if we want to make a deviation from the   rule we need to document that so there's a very  simple workflow that was put in place with that   for the internal control uh making a request for  an exception to remove and having it validated   at the correct level and storing that information  and this is the type of I mean we've had feedback   from the European Court of Auditors because this  is something they look at every year and they   were very happy to see okay that's very clear  we've got a register of exceptions so that was   actually the first one that we put in place it was  um easy in the sense that we didn't have too many   perspects we didn't have too many complications  it was just a straight through chronological flow   um other areas that were putting in place  right now in procurement with quite a lot so   we we do use uh Central institutions software for  procurement but for things like purchase requests   we're putting in place locally it just makes more  sense for us to do it it's easier for us to manage   the line manager approvals through flow format  than through the central systems also the uh what   we call missions so business travel requests we  don't have that tool from the European commission   so we're putting that in place and that's  going online very shortly within a flow former   things like meeting requests so if somebody  has to organize a seminar or a meeting we   do it through flow format it makes it a lot  clearer what we've seen in the past that a   meeting request would be somebody saying I need  to organize a meeting next year for 50 people   okay we don't touch the information we need and  and this process puts it in place okay 50 people   prayer of building uh how much do you have to  pay for various different things and it makes   things a whole lot clearer from beginning  to end generally I would say reimbursement   request for format is great you can upload the  documents uh the proof of payment and support   uh in terms of legal processes that are underway  right now we have what's called Public Access   requests so in the institutions any citizen  can make a request for access to documents of   an agency and we have very very specific rules  about the timing to deal with those requests and   that's it's perfect for football so that's these  are the ones I would say are going in right now   um and and it's it's working well the what you see  on the screen on the right hand side this is just   an example of what you see from the exceptions and  errors request so it's a simple process capturing   the information related to the exception or error  and it passes through the phases of the approval   for various different actors that's quite easy  to to manage and it's from a flow former point of   view is probably one of the most probably one of  the most popular questions we get asked is where   do we start where do we start the only sort of  common consensus that we have is the start of   that low-hanging fruit that quick wins that you  touched on from that perspective um because we   find that it's really really important that if  you put that first process live really really   quickly then it inspires confidence throughout  the organization so it could be a HR process it   could be a finance process but it's somebody in  the HR sees that a process has been done there   it gives them that Curiosity that incentive  to see how it could work in their particular   department so the way that you approached it  from that perspective James um with a with a   relatively simple process but a really really  meaningful process was really really important   um as opposed to trying to go for something really  really complex that could be delivered but was   just going to take a longer time to implement um  so as I say we say success you start with that   easier low-hanging fruit but again be mindful that  you can achieve those complex processes as you   start to move through the process and start become  more comfortable with regards to the the software   uh also if you can just move on to the next  slide please yeah this this relates her into   the future processes so yeah it will automate  and um this is a non-exhaustive list because I   could I could have put 15 slides with lists of  processes that we've done to automate in future   basically we want to get to the point where  we have no more email or phone call requests   that we just get away from that because it's  difficult to manage it's difficult to follow up   um as I say we have Auditors we need to audit  trails and flowformer gives us that so for the   some of the most important ones that you  see on the screen which I would hope for   2023-24 that we will be um putting in place for  human resources there are quite a few I had a   conversation yesterday in fact with somebody from  Human Resources to show what flow formal is about   and how it could be used for the onboarding  process and yeah I get to see excitement   building when I when I I showed problems possible  so that's something we'll do rather quickly   um and there I think it's important to know  that it's it's not just the workflow itself   but it can be also it can replace the checklists  that we have to go through so for the onboarding   it's not just you need approvals but don't  forget that you need to contact it and you   need to get the access set up don't forget  that you need to get their details for the   uh housing and different things whatever it  happens to be and it it's perfect for that   um basically any software that's not covered by  system which is the inter institutional software   that we have for HR we will use it for example  reimbursement requests and then in the other   areas in accounting and finance we have uh well  these are these are detailed it's institutions   speak I won't go into much detail but budget  transfer requests and Recovery ordering requests   uh manual invoices so some of this will make sense  uh within the institutions but not so much outside   but these are important uh tools that we need to  put in place in legal we we have quite a lot we   have contract generation I didn't put all the  other details in there and then in procurement   reimbursement of third parties so we recently  got access to the engage module of flow format   and this is something I'm quite happy about that  we can include in a very secure way normal cpvo   people in the flow so when somebody when we  have experts visiting us for for uh meetings   they make reimbursement requests we can manage  it with this tool in a very secure way and   reduce a lot of work then I mean lots of service  requests whether it's reservation of equipment or   office furniture needs and different things we've  used as well and then on the operational side one   of the ones that's underway right now is um r d  research and development calls for expression of   Interest so the cpvo gives a certain amount of  money in Grants for r d and the way we manage   that internally in the past was very email Excel  and now we're putting in place process for that   so that's again Aaron I could I could speak for an  hour on this on the process but I think I'll stop   there it's there's a lot to do yeah I know that  it's and one of the another clients that we work   with in another vertical gave a great description  with regards to flow formula and then he said the   only limitation of flow form is your imagination  and in essence that resonates from that   perspective as long as you've got an understanding  with regards to what a process looks like you can   design it that way but it's great to see you're  starting to use those Enterprise features a full   form around that engage feature which is a real  real USB a full former point of view you touched   on it gives you that security but it also gives  you the ability to incorporate people outside of   your organization uh with underneath the license  which is really really important as well from   that perspective okay fantastic um actually if  you can just move on to the next slide please   and in terms of what a success looked like at  CP fuel from digitizen processes I know we've   recovered this all from that point of view but I  think what you've achieved in a very very short   space is probably how you would measure success  in the adaptation yeah um I mean if I'm being   honest the success for me what it looks like I'll  go through what's on the side but what it really   looks like is people are being enthusiastic and  coming to me and saying oh I've seen what you've   done with that process if I have one I need to do  it uh I think that's the key success element and   we've had that it's the conversation I mentioned  that I had yesterday evening with human resources   um then you've got the the ones you see on the  screen this is I think what people will expect   from a tool like this reducing or eliminating  errors um we we had in the past and I think   this isn't only in institutions of the European  Union we had the signature which was the physical   paper document that went from office to office  for approvals uh things got lost things were   there were errors in them and so on so slow former  gets rid of that we're moving away from that way   of thinking and the errors are being reduced it  also means that we have a clear view on where we   are with every request so we've got the overview  in full format we see where things block somebody   hasn't responded to an email proforma also  has the alerts built in so we remind people   so we we generally don't have unfinished  workflows anymore they all get convinced   because the system is made to do that and to  guide you through that time savings it's it's   huge I mean especially if you move away from the  purely paper workflow to Simply uh digitizing you   saved a lot of time but when you go through the  process with the performer and you rethink your   processes which is an important step but before  you start and fulfilling you really rethink that   uh the time savings are are shocking in fact at  times and you know you look back a year later and   think did we really do it like that in the past  um and and that that's been an eye-opener for me   um yeah I've already mentioned the request for  new process other alternations they keep coming   probably the another key for me is this  what I put here at Catalyst for thinking   about process including sitting down  with somebody's cleaning floor forma   uh it creates a situation where they start to  think about the processes they say oh okay we   can do it that way we're not limited to paper and  writing things and it's it's amazing to see the   way people reflect afterwards on the processes  they have because I mean I think everybody would   agree we shouldn't just take paper and make a  digital version of that flow and slow form of   the the way we've implemented it forces people to  think a little bit differently about how we will   do this in future how we can work differently  and it offers uh I think functions that allow   us to do that and that's that's been very nice to  see it started a conversation and that's something   we didn't necessarily have in the past people did  things the way they did it for 20 years 25 years   that's changing it's helping with the cultural  change as well because they can see the results   that's really that's really impactful and it's  actually helping with the cultural change within   the organization because in that in essence  what you're doing with performers you are   giving people a new way of working but it's a  better way of working uh and what we typically   find is that for example if you involve staff  in that process uh get their feedback with   regards to where you'd like to use it next  it tends to be really really powerful or as   opposed to saying this is what we're going to  do this is where we're going to digitalize next   um if you can bring them on board it tends to work and and just thinking out loud because  in the past we had the waterfall approach   for I.T where the person will put out  their specifications they give it to it   six months later something comes back and  nobody's happy here we we get rid of that   because the person making the specifications is  the person creating the tool and it really works   better they're happier at the end because it's not  just giving something you don't have communication   difficulties with the it developer because you're  actually putting this in place yourself and that   was another thing people are much happier and  much more associated with the final results inflow   format and they would be with the tools whether  it's just parts of the project that's creating   specifications for nit development I think it's  it's it's very useful from that perspective too   yeah actually if you can just move  it on to the next slide please okay and then lastly um what's next for cpvo and  the use of the process automation so we again   we've touched on this slightly um around  the engage piece but maybe if we've just   flash that out a bit James yeah um and we can  move on to the next sliders I mean for us the   key issue is now making sure that we have  people in every unit in every sector but no   format so creating I don't always like using  these terms but champions in in each entity   that will push this forward you do need them  um one person can't do this it's you've got   to train quite a few stuff you've got to get  them involved and they'll see the benefit very   quickly so that's the first thing we want to do  start pushing this out as the cultural change   use it also to get into a mindset of continuing  continual improvements within the organizations   this is in our strategic plan we've got to get  there we've got the pressure for resources so   we need to do this uh when it comes to the  Future in terms of technical developments   um we're doing work on the Integrations I've  already mentioned this for our archiving system   and for the apis with the accounting and  budget-free software we're developing this   further and further as time goes on so that's more  or less what we're planning to do it's an ongoing   project uh this I don't see this I don't see an  end date sometimes I mean you define a project as   something having a beginning and an end floor form  isn't a project for us so Pharma is now the way we   will work into the the foreseeable future in terms  of improving processes yeah it's a core it's a   core system and it goes back to that piece whereby  there'll be processes that will come to the four   in three months six months that you'd never even  thought of digitizing from that perspective um and   it comes back to the fact where you can create  the process is exactly the way that you want   um and when something does come as you say it'll  evolve and it'll be continue to be used just as a   core system but potentially not for use cases that  have been identified at this stage from that point   of view it's not a case of we start here and we  finish here it continues to evolve as time goes   on there's no absolutely absolutely and there's  there's one thing that probably it's not a term   we often use in work uh related to this type  of project it's actually it's fun to use and   the people that are doing it enjoy it uh because  it's it's quite visual you immediately see the   result it's it's it's it's uh it's great well  that's a that's a new way of describing it from   that perspective fun to work I'll definitely  use that code cubes uh but again it's just a   testament to how quickly and intuitive staff  they can start to use use the software which   is what type of feedback we would love to hear we  we do here on continuous occasions from clients   who've started to use it and start to evolve  uh with further different projects fantastic   um I don't know if you can just move on firstly  I would like to say thank you very much James   uh Katarina for your time that was really really  powerful from that perspective just with regards   to give Insight how EU indices are using full  former which is obviously going to be relevant   to EU agencies but it will also be relevant to any  organizations in that public sector space as well   thank you just to give a little bit of a oversight  with regards to full former who we are what we are   um proforma is um process automation company we're  a global organization with our head office in   Dublin Ireland we've also just opened our office  in New York which is a really really exciting   project as well um in terms of USPS from a full  former point of view we're 100 no code which James   touched on at the start what does that mean from  a from a full form of perspective to the clients   that we work with it means that you can design  medium to complex processes outside the remit   of 80 you can Empower your staff to drive those  automation changes was James touched on within   um within CD field nearly 20 of the staff are  trained with regards to how to use software   which again gives that ability to scale up  really really quickly the only prerequisite   to using full former is that the organizations  are using Office 365 and predominantly SharePoint   online Pro farmers of Microsoft bottle that is  installed inside all your SharePoint environment   all the data all the documents that you  generate then reside exclusively within   your tenancy and again as we covered off within  the presentation uh the fact that all that data   is residing within your tenancy from that gdpr  compliance please is really really important   um irrespective of the organization what we'll  do at the end of the session is sure details   so any of the agencies any uh that's on the  call that wants to get a better oversight   I'm more than happy to take you under the  bond give you a deeper look at full form   great thank you so much for that Aaron and  thank you James and Katarina and before we   finish for today I am I'll just quickly go to  the Q a section um Aaron maybe you can take   this one so this is from um Michael for James and  Katarina you both mentioned being challenged by   procurement restraint uh but Michael is wondering  how cpvo and other EU agencies can enroll until   like flow former with these or three okay so  so for any of those other EU agencies there's   an approved framework in place with regards  to procuring full former and that could be   procured directly through Insight um and anybody  in the EU agencies will be familiar with regards   to who inside R and what they what they do again  anybody that wants to get a better understanding   with regards to the licensing course Etc happy  to take that offline and give further context   that's Brandon thank you for that Aaron um  I just want to thank you all for joining us   today and thank you again to our speakers James  Katarina and Aaron and we hope you found the   webinar useful and again if you have any further  questions please feel free to reach out there is   a short survey at the end of the webinar and we  please ask all attendees to and fill this out it   will just take less than 30 seconds and there is  a 2023 infographic in your resource panel if you   would like to download that it's really useful  piece and if you are interested in registering   for a 14-day trial you can do so after the  former.com forward slash trial but I want to   thank you all again for attending and thank you  to our speakers hope you all have a lovely day