Unleash the power of the challenger sales model for Engineering

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there's a lot of talk in the market about Challenger and there's a lot of talk about what Challenger is and what you've got to do very few people talk about how you actually do it welcome back I've got Dean Kelly with me again the deal mechanic welcome back Dean thank you John hey Dean we've had some good discussions about value and value lifecycle for customers and so on I'm interested in the actual conversation that customers that sales people need to have with the customers and when I'm thinking about that I'm thinking these days a lot about Challenger and the whole concept of challenging the customer so could you talk about how you think that sales conversation should appear certainly there's a lot of talk in the market about challenger and there's a lot of talk about what challenger is and what you've got to do very few people talk about how you actually do it so in the context of the value life cycle there's a very clear methodology on how and so one of the things that I think the sales people need to be aware of is not all of us are a challenger personality type that's true and therefore if you're not a challenger personality how do you have the conversation where you're diplomatically challenging the client but not overstepping the mark and not being in any way arrogant or aggressive so it's a very tough one of how you have that conversation so how do you do it so a couple of things that I use is first of all if you're looking to get a complex deal a multi-faceted deal into a dialogue with a client how effective will you be if you merely use words you know we're doing a video here when words come out of my mouth or your mouth they dissolve and so if you don't write them down you're not going to take advantage of me we're not got a deal that has cost of ownership and ROI and people and resources in all these I've got multiple facets that I'm trying to juggle and keep from the conversation while I can't do that with words and if the client goes off in a different direction how do I get them back and say oh here's where we are so a picture is probably the simplest way of doing this is having a picture which has maybe some circles or squares or we you know I call it a bubble chart where you have a bubble chart there which has got a number of the facets there it's in an easy-to-read format so you can draw the clients attention and rather than presenting it you use it as a tool for asking questions we customer helps you fill in the bubbles absolutely well they can or you can come with prefilled in because you have an idea of where you want to steer the conversation but you'll have a few blank ones that say mr. customer I don't know all about your business so you help me understand what I'm missing but in the first discussion you and I had we said we did you were saying it's very important that you get the customer who expressed the value not us express what we think the value is to the customer if you've already got the bubble chart filled in is that well it's not it's two things one it's never a hundred percent right and you don't want it to be and you've always got some blank bubbles okay because a lot of think of it this way I come to talk to John now I've done some research on your business like a good salesperson here so I know already what's published about your business initiatives or your business imperatives so I'm gonna have that may be at the top and your logo is on the picture I'm gonna say John which of these are the critical imperatives that you have to resolve in a short space of time and you'll start giving me feedback now what I'm having in this conversation is like a game of badminton as quickly as I can I've got to get the shuttlecock on your side of the net and you involved in the conversation now that conversation is very different from show up and throw out with 400 slides where I'm talking at shoot sure so this is about breaking that monotony and getting you involved then I'm going to say well John I don't know your business but in working with other clients with very similar problems they've told us that some of these items are very important to them as you look at this from your business perspective what have I missed what needs to be added so I'm giving you the opportunity to now say well Dean you you missed it here or we read this one so there's a very it's now a conversation rather than a one-way dialogue and you're positioning yourself as a domain expert to you you actually got all this knowledge you're bringing to the table and and adding it to the conversation please be serious how many times has a customer implemented a solution like this whatever the solution is if you've been involved many times well and I've got around the world of my organization has many clients we've done this thousands of times so who actually knows what a good solution looks like who knows what the outcomes the client should be seeking well we actually do so let's bring it to the client but not tell them correct it's not telling them this is the way and saying you've got to do it our way cuz that's not good enough that's saying my experience is these are things that are important that other clients of see how do you feel about it what have I missed what do you believe for your organization should be added where are you different everybody's different and then the next question so the first question is what do I miss what do you believe should be added the next question is John as you think about your business what would be your top three and why right because I now need you fully engage this one this one and when you pick those top three or the first three I need to know the why now I'm asking you the value how do you do that today well that's interesting how long does that take if you could speed that up how much improvement would you like so I am now in the conversation to get and it just on the tambura singh levin indeed okay great great approach I like a lot of what you're saying and I'm looking forward to the next time we talk thanks Don