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hi everybody kevin crows here we are so excited to have another webinar Chuck an idea to webinar in gamification fashion 2012 and this one is called as 12 gamification principles to increase productivity and gagement I'm Ken krob the founder and president of insidesales.com and i have with me best-selling author Chuck kun ramp the author of the game of war thanks for coming in today Josh Oh can you're welcome I just happy to be here especially since you've done such a fine job of interrupting my retirement with your for bizarre yeah you got a little bit upset we did yeah such said that we wrote an article about sharing all the five gamification rules from the grandfather of gamification now he he was a best-selling author in the world of gamification before gamification was cool now there's two kinds of gamification in effect and they sort of merged together in our world the first is the athletics model and the second is the model of video game mechanics and those have come together so I wrote an article on Forbes back in 2012 and the thing sort of like crazy we had to speak a couple of times two of the books that I gave Dave Elkington my business partner clear back when we started inside so calm one was the game of work and the other one was magnificent obsession by Lloyd C Douglas and right from the very beginning we have tried to follow Chuck and what he's done in the world of business productivity and that he's been at it for 40 years he has come out of retirement to do it again convicted and I want to hear the principles of gamification so the agenda today is Chuck's going to go through five of his key principles and the things that really put his model on the map and then I'm going to follow up about the last 30 minutes and walk if you seven principles that we've learned and then we're going to take the last ten minutes for some question and answer and see if we can really help tie it up and put on a boat we've got lots of great downloads today you'll see five different things you can download over there in the sidebar and Chuck and I are going to put together a second ebook from this so I'm going to turn your list check but I'm going to take notes here you're a gentleman and a scholar you know for it it's amazing that it's that it's really been 40 years since we started this whole process and it was being a lot to come into the I don't know I feel like I was country before country was cool it's the only song that keeps running through my head but I'd like to take this to what John Wooden said about what we what we need to do to progress coach wooden one of the great Americans are great coaches and great leaders of our country so what we learn after we think we know it all it really counts and so I'd like to share today not just the principles that we put together back in nineteen eighty four in the book but really to emphasize maybe some of the watch out the look fors the caveats if we can use a fancy word around them and we know that feedback is the most important element that's in the game of work and the way we handle feedback contributes to whether or not we get engagement and we get energy we talked about last time that the denial withholding a feedback as a most severe form of psychological punishment we can inflict on someone but I want to talk a little bit about two things that in your gamification application in your business need to happen and the first one is that the appropriate amount of feedback can only be determined by the recipient and never the giver now if you've ever tried to put a three-year-old to bed before they were ready to go you've understood this principle at a core level you lay them down they pop up these lay them down again they pop up dad I need to drink that I need to go dad I need to this that I needed that until you give them enough hugs and kisses that they get their strokes if you will they get their bucket filled and then they can they can walk away and they can go to sleep when you start to look inside gamification in your organization you have to be sensitive to the kinds of feedback and the amount of feedback that each one of those participants needs now this means you got to listen a little bit more maybe than we've done in the past second caveat about feedback is that you must have the feedback from the coach be consistent with the feedback that's coming off the system score code scoreboard so if you've got a leaderboard you've got badges going on you've got a number of the other mechanics in place it's imperative that the coach is still doing the same kinds of conversation that is coming off of that scoreboard coaches have to avoid going and picking out the negatives even though there are a few of them and making a big deal out of the bad stuff instead they want to make a big deal out of the good stuff they want more of we are told from the very beginning of behavioral ism to reinforce the behaviors we want repeated let me just insert here for a moment the reason that we're taking this approach today is that when something isn't working as well as it could in your gamification or mine it's usually because we're not applying the principles correctly or we're not applying correct principles I love to sail and when a sailboat is not taking full advantage of the wind it's usually because we've not set the sail correctly to maximize the principle that air moves around the sail faster than it moves across the flat side which creates a vacuum and and drag a plane can stall off with tragic circumstances if the flaps or other adjustments compromise the lifting principles of the wings and so it is with gamification for each of the principles there's a caveat to ensure proper application for maximum results let's go to Prince to principal number two that is scorekeeping and our caveat on scorekeeping is again very simple very straightforward and that is that you want must first maximize the number of winners so to make that happen in your gamification look for sub games inside the big game you might break them up into flights as we would in a corporate golf tournament so that your based on people's experience might be one category or product lines might be linked together and recognize that most progress is made from the from the application of small growth and small techniques and looking for let me say let me put it this another way looking for the opportunity that your people have to ask for sub games inside the big game will make a big difference in how you go about this our second caveat around scorekeeping is very simply around competition very often very often we misunderstand what competition is and we like and our principle to allow competition but not force it when I choose to compete I'm pumped I'm engaged when forced to compete I disengage and seek justification for not winning boy those are big words I'm going to have to make that a little simpler straightforward if you've ever been in a racquetball ladder or a tennis ladder at your club you pick somebody just a little bit better than you are to go out and have an opportunity to compete against nobody nobody wants to go arm wrestle the strongest individual in the school so make sure that the competition that comes out of your gamification is allowed people to set up their own games throw downs and challenges make sure that you're maximizing those would keep them within this element of letting the participants pick the people with whom they're going to compete let's talk about goal-setting we know that the principle is it is that in recreation the goals are more clearly defined than they are at work now gamification systems and the mechanics have done a good job of clarifying the goals but let's look at two things that we must keep in mind if we want to have maximum engagement we all know about SMART goals specific measurable attainable realistic with time time sensitivity are great and they ought to be part of everything that we do but I would suggest to you that as you look at getting engagement with your people that the most important part of your the most important part of your smart goals application is the attainable and realistic people want to be able to have an opportunity to win and they want to have an opportunity to be part of the next big thing that happens there's plenty of time for the bee hags the big hairy audacious goals that we all want to achieve but keep in mind that there are millions of blocks and the pyramids in Egypt and each one was put in place a few few feet at a time so focus on the attainability and the realistic realistic nature of your goals and you'll be far better off this is my favorite when you start looking at goal setting goal setting is great gold getting is wonderful but celebrating them is the biggest part of all celebrate celebrate celebrate there may be someone called old enough to remember a song like that from free dog night it's our theme song at the game work make sure that the bigger the crowd that you celebrate in front of the bigger the thrill for the person being recognized as we go into consistent coaching or as we say in in the original book don't change the rules in the middle of the game we have to recognize that there are a couple of things that make coaching work best first the consistency is the most important attribute in a coach it doesn't matter if you are teacher or tyrant consistency is the most desirable aspect on the part of a team some of the most famous coaches in athletics have not been have not been the softest or the kindest but you can always count on who they were and make sure that your coaches are consistent in the message that they're delivering tie this back to that the message that comes off of the scoreboard needs to be consistent with a message that's being delivered by the coach and this is probably the toughest thing for us to recognize as leaders that the way people feel about their coach dictates how they feel about their company now you can be in an organization with the greatest benefits in the world in fact one of the things that I think is so unusual about the way we approach compensating people is it almost every reasonable sized company in America has fringe benefits most of the time there are thirty to thirty-five percent of the base cost of compensation and we pay them and people sell them to us and here's the thing that's scary you have to be off the job to enjoy your fringe package you're either sick you're on vacation you're retired you're on maternity leave but you have to be gone in order to understand the benefits of fringe now we know that people leave companies if you look at all the great research that Gallup people have done we know that people don't leave companies they leave coaches and the way we feed people feel about their coach dictates how they feel about their company and yet you will be very hard-pressed to find an organization that is high minded enough not online that is intelligent enough to be spending a half of one percent of total compensation on leadership development gamification is critical mechanics work they help us get this job done but they will never replace the one on one personal relationship I have with a person that I report to that's what makes coaching so critical in the last but I believe perhaps the most important as it relates to engagement is that there's a higher degree of personal choice in recreation than there isn't work this first caveat represents the fact that buy-in comes from giving people choice in their methods and in the way they get things done so I'm going to ask you a question I want you to imagine that you are being asked to do something it's a new task maybe it's being asked by a new manager when you look at all of that which one of these questions the why the what or the how you want to be told the least now while you're thinking about that let me give you my opinion I hate to be told how the reason I hate to be told how is it takes away my choice it takes away my creativity and it also says that if you think you have to tell me how you are saying that I'm not bright enough to figure it out on my own in really big illuminated letters now I'll accept the what because that's necessary but what I really love is the why and so our learning is this that two important people we insist on explaining why if you've ever had to convince a neighbor to share the cost of offense or you were talking about borrowing money you know that your insistence on explaining why sometimes will go way beyond them being sold my good friend simon Sinek built a whole career around first tell them why secondly to unimportant people we simply tell how and most important about this is they can tell how we feel about them by the way we talk to them so getting buy-in from organizations and getting buy-in in your organization comes from allowing your people to pick their methods you don't have to worry about the goals people and organizations seem to acknowledge the importance of leadership and investors setting the overarching goals it is the allowance on setting and choosing my own personal methods which give me choice and therefore allow me to buy into the overall process getting it done make sure that's a part of your gamification process as you put it in now we put together there's a download you can participate while we're on the while we're on the webinar of our gamification readiness survey and if we get some time we get all the participation we'd like we'll review some of the questions that will come out of that when we get a chance to wrap it up beyond that I'll just end with my favorite tongue twister and that is the whole cornerstone behind the game of work and gamification is that people will pay for the privilege working harder then they will work when they are paid and if you doubt that all you need to do to look around that all the recreational activities that take place in your life ken it's coming right back to you buddy Thank You Chuck that was awesome i I've got about two pages of notes again already and I want to really recommend to our audience that you look closely at those principles as I mentioned when we started inside telecom we talked about two main books one was the game of work the other one was magnificent obsession and the game of work has been a core model that we've used that from the beginning and if you get a chance maybe go check out the Forbes article this is Chuck's book as he mentioned he's got a PDF download of one of his other books on scorekeeping which is critical and I want to go ahead and jump in I circled back a bit to a slide that I wanted to share with you let me see if I can push you the next one here okay here we go this is from Scott santucci a forester when you focus on the science of sales you achieve breakthrough performance and again that sort of our mantra here at insidesales.com the science of selling and we believe though that you have to start with art you start with the Masters and Chuck is a master start with the principles and then tweak it with science iterate and test and improve it's better to start with art than to start from scratch till the next principle is the definition this is from gartner the now this is the the most recent version of gamification this is one based on video mechanics game mechanics what is gamification the use of game mechanics and experience designed to digitally engage and motivate people to achieve their goals now we believe in blending the two together and why is that so important why should we gain a Phi well I'll tell you why it sees gen y's it's these Millennials they grew up playing World of Warcraft they can text message with their thumb on one hand in their pocket my son can do that I walk Tim it's crazy and I hate to tell you this everybody but there are now more Millennials in this world than there are baby boomers and we thought that was the big generation that would change everything and it did but there there are 70 4.9 million baby boomers 70 3.5 million Millennials and they have more impact now than the baby boomers and so let's talk about the power of gamification the market behind that starts first with just the world of video game exactly before I do I want to talk about like 42 sec talker so when I was at franklin covey we started the incentives department there that it was not called franklin covey yet it was still franklin quest and we were the second fastest growing company in the united states back in the early 90s the number one training company in the world and i had interviewed hundreds and hundreds of salespeople for my inside sales teams and after a while we started asking what are the key ingredients that make up our high performers and so we tested we looked at all their resumes we put them all together we've matched with our top performers it wasn't nearly as sophisticated as what we do today with our machine learning PhDs and everything but I still remember the four factors that were most statistically significant with our high performers now remember we're here in we were out in west valley city utah right by salt lake city at the time and the number one factor were alignment with a high performance sales person was a background in competitive athletics that was it competitive athletics in fact we have in our sales force today we have bodybuilders we have mixed martial arts professionals we have now we have a chess champion or two so competitive is probably the key word but most of that happens with collegiate athletes with really strong all-state high school athletes we've got some professional athletes on the floor and everywhere I go I see the same thing so listen up to the mr. cunent here because the athletics model is critical we have to understand that but let's fold in the video game model how powerful is it today well the number one movie in Hollywood was avatar 760 million dollars but the video game industry is a billion dollars a day it's crazy who plays video games fifty-eight percent of Americans that to the average age is aged 30 slightly more men than women fifty-five percent of the audience's male but you can see there's a pretty even distribution between under 18 18 to 35 and over 35 but here's what blew my mind we we did some research on probably the biggest franchise out there the world of warcraft and they they got started back in 2004 and since that time in fact this research is actually still a couple years old is probably bigger than this by another there have been six million years of consecutive video game play just in World of Warcraft oh my gosh I broke that in the work weeks that's 312 million work weeks as 12 and a half billion hours of work now I research the average wage in the United States and its twenty five dollars an hour twenty four dollars and ninety-nine cents guys that's 311 trillion dollars in wages holy crap that is not I hope I got that right I think that's billion double check that for me right or check it right now but think about that our national debt is knocking on the door of 18 trillion dollars one video gained a lot of fun folks but there's a lot of time in focused on video gaming and people have gotten really good at now it's come a long way it's come a long way I remember palms anybody remember pong back in 1972 back then video games were purely based on if you're better than the other but nowadays there's a lot more than just competence it's not about just skill it's also about economy and relatedness relationships built with people you play video games with we just saw it on the news it's now become a spectator sport really people watch other people play video game I don't get it but but its massive twitch was just purchased or being purchased by Amazon we thought Google is going to snap them up something bigs happening there and that's a streaming video game watching network could let you watch other people play video game wow so why should we care about gamification what's the big deal well Gallup has given us some pretty amazing statistic in the world of employee productivity and they believe their research shows and by the way they research 17 million employees over the course of 30 years and found that the single concept that was most related to productivity was engagement and those five rules that Chuck just stated are really about engagement about getting employees engaged and that same research the Gallup it shows that twenty four percent of employees are actively disengaged at work meaning they're purposely not engaged sixty-three percent are randomly not engaged they're just not focused and only thirteen percent of employees are engaged meaning their heads down focus enjoy the work love what they're doing and then the really interesting things that came out of the rules of engagement was 12 key questions they found what is it that gets employees in gate now this is my friend Paul Allen I'm going to be doing a webinar with him shortly he is the evangelist for gallop over the strengths finder product many of you probably take in strengths finder 2.5 I think 11 million people have and but prior to that the 12 elements of great management or in other words how to get engagement in your employees came down to these 12 principles now think about it would it be cool if we could design our gamification models to help drive this engagement and much of what Chuck sorry talked about is right here number one I know it's expected of me too I have materials and equipment I need to do my job right three at work I have the opportunity to do what I do best every day for this one's this one's very closely tied to gamification in the last seven days that's within a week I have received a recognition or praise for doing good work number five now this is interesting can do you cater your gamification to the needs of your people my supervisor or someone at work seems to care about me as a person six there's someone to work through the skirt who encourages my development definite work my opinions seem to count as remember what Chuck said he said let people choose the forms of gamification and reinforcement that they worked under eight the mission or purpose of my company makes me feel my job is important nine my associates or fellow employees are committed to doing quality work gamification really helps drive that because the people can see what each other is doing and if they see everybody working hard day work car can I have a best friend at work now it's a lot of fun to throw down and challenge your friends see how well they're going to do get 11 in the last six months someone at work has talked to me about my progress well if you're measuring the stats and you're watching what's going on that's going to happen a lot more than just 12 every six months and 12 this last year I've had opportunities to learn and to grow take special note of that folks those are the 12 key ingredients to employee engagement so let's talk about engagement in game mechanics now as we talked about there's three main ingredients there's competence autonomy and relatedness now competence just shows how good you're doing either collectively or individually and you can earn points in sort of a economy the leaderboards are probably the top they should be at the top there on top of autonomy is the ability to show yourself as an individual and work individually and then compete with other individuals relatedness is that relationship piece and that one's bigger than we had any idea but let's plot let's get into some of the individual elements of gamification things I'd like to really recommend number one is now this is one of the core ingredients of the inside sales space is a focus on reading indicators this is getting first downs you guys now I use that example were in Rome when I was speaking for cisco and only about twenty percent of the audience was from American and I got a lot of blank stares when I talked about American football so I apologize i'm gonna put ball coach and so I'm speaking today I'm going to use football and first down is an incremental mark of success that shows you're making progress towards winning the game and that's where we found gamification really helps significantly now we found that it's not quite as important around things that are intrinsically motivated or xuz motivates office anyway so if they're being commissioned appropriately then that the focus on you know making sales and driving revenue is already there but some of the nuances of the sales process especially in the world of leading indicators leading indicator things like make them more call generating more referrals setting appointments making sure your appointments hold all the different stages of the sales process that lead to the sale that's where gamification really shines and the hero of gamification processes is leaderboards that's the one that just reached off the page that I learned this back at Franklin Chuck already talked about it I learned that in fact my old boss Jeff Hall beast he gave me this great book called putting the one minute manager to work written by Ken Blanchard one of the leading speakers and presenters that we promoted at Franklin and it basically says post the results on the wall and you know what as soon as we would do that the results would go up twenty percent as soon as we posted the effort effort would go up twenty percent and we're finding that it's actually closer to thirty eight percent our power standings researches our internal gamification platform shows that on average it's a thirty-eight percent leap in immediate increase in Ripley's effort and results that are being measured so big big deal the second big question is what kind of gamification model do you use now there's two big approaches there's contests and promotions and and what happens usually is the CEO loves to see contests but the HR tell acceleration team and the coaches want to see promotions why well the the big gladiator in the team tends to win the contests and very few others do but what happens is everybody who's in the middle of the pack don't get nearly as so his definition of the contest is a winner out of a whole group definition of a promotion is when everybody can win because they're really competing with ourselves or or they're competing with other teams so promotions tend to give a lot more people in the mix so there is definitely some pros and cons of contests and promotions with contests you have one big limiter much bigger prizes competition with others and that's usually forced competition chuck was talking about that and that's not always the best approach sometimes it's really powerful there's some great examples where contests are awesome presidents club is a good one but promotions anyone can win smaller prizes you compete with self you move the needle with everybody in the team with promotions if they're designed right now let's talk about what really motivates people because that is a science in and of itself probably the watermark of research done on that was Harvard Business Review the Herzberg study if you haven't had a chance to research this go out there and do so because it's really really big the basic thesis was what motivates people what affects their job attitudes and what they found is there was two kinds of approaches there were things that make people delete to job satisfaction and then there were things that contribute to job dissatisfaction and the big question of course is salary and an income so look down there right in the middle of the brownish graph it's one two three four five six up from the bottom is salary and what that means is lack of sufficient salary is a demotivator but extra salary is not the primary motivator now our big meat-eating the high end enterprise those people would say differently because they make a lot of money right and that's how it works but quite often big income is a matter of keeping score look at the top job satisfaction contributors number one was achievement number two is recognition of that achievement treaty was the inherent work itself for was the responsibility that comes with that four and five was advancement six was growth every one of those pretty much is listed in those 12 engagement questions from Gallup you guys the research is there it's powerful so what would we try and do what we really recommend you do in your sales teams is you find the individual areas of strength within each salesperson we call it their superpower that came from our new head of the momentum Department Dave voice it's a great cool idea so we look for people superpowers and we try and help them play to their strengths a couple of examples my friend Troy Fullmer he's probably one of the most persistent people we've got that I've ever met this is his uncle gene foam or the world champ boxer and Troy is really good at one thing he's pleasantly persistent he just never gives up we've we've had a rep workforce Lindsey and she was really really good at making sure that the information transition to the sales people that was her superpower when she said an appointment she went and downloaded everything about that appointment so that it was perfect and the salesperson knew exactly what to do Jordan Timothy he is really good at getting back and reminding the customers to show up for the day an appointment like for throwing his hammer it just knocks him on ahead reminds him and that's his superpower and e he's one of the best in fact we have a different form of specialization here at our company insidesales.com we counted we've got at about 16 different specialist positions most of them are the front lines but I was on a webinar just the other day with my friends and Keenan and Trish Bertuzzi and we told them that we have a specialist position in our management team called the coach now most companies have managers do the coaching but we've broken that function out and we have specialist coaches and Jordan Timothy is now a coach he got so good at doing what he does he's one of our coaches he's like a personal strength trainer for our sales teams and that's what a superpower can do for him then one of our best is Gabe Larson and he he's really really good at execution technical execution he just gets stuff done that's his superpower so I would ask you to take a minute think about it what is your superpower what's your team superpower can you work together as a team and play to the straights that's what a really great manager does that was the whole point of the Gallup study was playing to the super powers of your pc all right one of my favorite things and this is a little counterintuitive this little different than what you hear about out there but I had a really good probably the best boss I ever workforce names Larry MacFarlane and he had a really interesting approach to incentives he would give them things they could never afford to buy on their own think they would never buy now I was just a young sales guy trying to figure out how to support a family and and I was I was trying to sell laptop computers for Toshiba and they had an incentive program where you could earn points and then sped them on different things and they had a pair of shoes from johnston and murphy that were 350 bucks now i would never buy a pair of shoes for 350 bucks back in those days it just wouldn't happen but those things were so motivating to me that I I broke the record and went to town selling toshiba laptop so I could get me a pair of shoes I made way more money than what I would have made you know with what it was just for the shoes just in commissions i could have bought him but you know what those shoes just really made an impact so then again my best boss he believed we all ought to have a little bit of culture and really see something cool so he gave us tickets to lame is and that was an experience that changed my life and i thought wow you know that's pretty cool so there's all kinds of things you can do but but give them something that they would otherwise get give them an experience that they'll never forget and you'll find that they get tied to you because you care care about helping them improve their world and change their lives so the next big point i want to mention is it's similar to what chuck was talking about with which personal choice and all the time we as leaders we go pick incentives we think everybody's going to like and you know what sometimes quite often that they don't we pick the things we like I always tell the story of the Golden Rule as do unto others as you would have done unto you well there's a better rule it's the Platinum rule that's doing the others as they would have done unto them which means you better know I'm and if you don't know I'm just asked so one of the funnest things we ever did was we researched what kinds of incentives people would really like and I'm going to show it a little bit later in the presentation but I was brought in by the Boy Scouts to help consult a little bit and we had a scout camp that wasn't doing so well none of the kids wanted to go there and there was a bunch of old guys in a room trying to promote scout camp for coming year and they were all talking about it so we got more merit badges than ever we got this cool new waterfront and we've got this this western fort that one of our donors donated it and it's so cool they can play cowboys and Indians and I sort of passion really when's the last time you saw kids playing cowboys Mindy's now my father did and my father-in-law biz and my mom did but I don't recall anybody playing cowboy John Wayne is not top to the charts anymore although I love him but it doesn't ask you guys something a bit crazy have you asked the boys have you asked him what they like about that Scout camp and there was dead silence in that room it's sort of like marketing 101 right so I said now let's do that let's just take a straw poll with kids who have gone to this Scout camp and see what it was that they love and you know what the number one right thing without even a close second was crawdads haha crayfish you guys it was after they went to those merit badge classes they went and got a hot dog from the local lunchroom tied it on the string and went out in the lake and they fish for crawdads and then they cooked them an eight and roulette little lobsters so from now on when I say the phrase crawdad you're going to know what I mean you gotta think like your people think you gotta ask them what they care about one of our very best performers sort of a legend in our teens names Duke and we had this really cool incentive everybody thought it would be great it was I think a hundred dollar gift certificate to cabelas and you know what I didn't even motivate dude he'd said he'd rather have a fifty dollar gift certificate for Nike and you know what we've got to be thinking and asking and finding out what really matters so that's where I recommend you go is you ask the people what they want and so we do that quite often we had a research study you'll be able to download it here and and what we do is we stratify different options and different price ranges here's some examples the most motivating item in the fifty dollar range was two tickets to a college sporting event followed by an iPod shuffle or a round of golf in the in the two hundred fifty dollars in the bottom right here an xbox 360 in the thousand dollar range top top graph here a macbook air in the five thousand dollar range I'll expense trip to London vs hawaii about the same cost versus a six month lease on the Porsche okay so I wouldn't guess that but there you go so when in doubt ask if personal choice to your key your teams and you'll really have some strong motivation L one of our favorites again is is presidents club so we've even done some research on what if people would want to go in presidents club and that's something you can download as well alright so how powerful is gamification does it work out there in the real world well this is jeff powell DBP 480p and pretty massive pilot study was done internally with a hundred and fifty reps over the course of twenty eight weeks one team had gamification going one team did not both the folks with gamification and notice that noticed of the trend here with leading indicators titles went up eighty-eight percent talk time eighty percent proposal sent eighty-six percent closed accounts the number close the council's up thirty two percent in this 28 week pilot study done internally by ATP now I want to really stress it was done purely with those hundred 50 reps but that's some pretty intense numbers that gamification can bring about now will you love gamification because it dramatically improves engagement and the use of the system and when the systems used better there's more data and you know we're all about the data so our neurolytic platform loves more data so I wanted to just quickly Reese ummer eyes Chuck's five rules Chuckie's still out there are they gonna hear you all right why don't you just take a minute check in just go back through your five rules and then I'll do the same on my seven and then we'll take some questions that sound like the flowers sure sure of first off clearly defined rules or clearly defined goals people have to understand where they are you can imagine just going to a golf course and not being able not being able to get a map you just wind up swinging and swinging and walking in person um better scorekeeping and by that we mean a lot of what Ken and I have talked about today but contemporaneous tied into the people who matter the most and letting them get get a handle on it more frequent feedback it's really interesting that most organizations without gamification you get feedback once a year or when you screw up whichever comes first and we believe and recreational motivation recreation proves that if your feedback is not contemporaneous to your effort and if you go back and look again at the 12 elements of engagement from Gallup folks this frequent feedback we believe everybody everyday needs to know whether they want are lost and more frequently a possible personal choice we both talked a bunch about that if you want buy into a program you have to give choice to the people in the organ and last but not least consistent coaching when you look at the gallop engagement stuff and you look at why people they have the best best information on why people leave they don't leave the organization they leave their coach and so investing in bringing your coaches to be compatible and consistent with your gamification mechanics is critical critical to making anything work long-term I love that and thanks Chuck you know in our own organization our CEO Dave Elkington is one of the most consistent people I've ever met in the world and what he does is he drives accountability to our management teams to assist of that coaching be consistent we have for example he looks at key members every day aggregated numbers every week and rarely if ever ever fails and so beyond just a consistent coaching at the management level guys is accountability for that consistency at the executive level and my hats off to developing has won the best roller ever seen and much of our success i think is type of this set that will power that consistency it makes a huge difference so let's review the seven things i've talked about number one is engagement in fact that that was something called Chuck and I really hit art the science of engagement really is brought out of the research from Gallup those 12 questions go ask yourself those 12 questions and see how well your organization is doing both inside sales and gamification really shine in the world of focusing on leading indicators the things that are going to bring success why do you still have time to bring it you know the old school model of selling says let's go here are numbers of bins a month well the last day of the month it's too late to do much you know but if you're focusing on leading indicators are the first of them are you can see where you're going to be and you can guide that shift to success leaderboards they're still you know the hero of gamification there that they're the place to start as any William when you post it and focus on it everything goes up our most recent research is showing a thirty-eight percent increase its big that you understand the difference between context and promotions now a context is a challenge with one winner a promotion is achievement that can drive individual winners and its really really important that we understand the difference I love asked you know giving new experiences to your team things they would not normally do on their own things that they've wiped my pair of shoes or experience at a nice Broadway play and then both Chuck and I really talked about personal choice and in my role I call it apps then just find out through research and surveys and sitting down with your people what they really like to see we've got an example here right now that you can download the optimal sales incentives research study and then focus on the long-term effect I didn't develop that very well but basically if it's we're finding that gamification can decay if you do the same things all the time if you just focus on the month you're going to have a real struggle that the reason that presidents clubs do so well and there's also some research we've done locations for presents cause you might want to download but remember to focus on the long-term as well but I here at a time or a quarter at a time because that and and and there's some new things starting to come around we call them week and in fact we're nicknaming leave it leaderboards and that's where teams pull together over extended periods of time instead of individual gamification now the opposite of gamification and it's also effective is just not a great not a fun culture over time is called shame application you know but you use the carrot of the thick Boulder effective folks in the middle of the ones you want to get a lot of performance out of as well the folks at the top you know they're the mediums who are going to do good no matter what and the ones at the bar or they might not be best suited for sales anyway so let's see what we can do to have some good things happen here okay I'm we're on the question-and-answer period of our of our presentation today and I wanted to there's one good question right off the top here Chuck I'm going to ask you to view and that is when is it best to give feedback is the best to do it immediately and quickly or aggregate it and give it more you know more detailed over time what's your thoughts on best time to give me back I like both I think if you look at professional golf tournament you look at any of the sports that we pay money to see um you cannot delay the feedback in our 2002 winter games that were here in Utah we had a situation where the figure skating scores were 15 seconds too late normally takes about 40 seconds for those scores to be aggregated and one particular competition was delayed 15 seconds and you could feel the trauma go through the group waiting for scores when they expected them to be there so you can't be too quick but then you also need to aggregate it as it relates to the promotional aspects you talked about gotcha that's great next question how do I determine what is the type of feedback my people want you know that's that's your cup of tea as well check how about taking a stab at that one what type of feedback would your people want I two things to do one is to observe what works and what doesn't and secondly as you pointed out so well is ask them just absolutely ask them now we know in a broad sense research wise if you reinforce the behavior you want repeated and you're making a big deal out of the good stuff that you want more of if you can get to a point where you count days between accidents rather than the accident frequency rate which is so standard or you can count perfect shipments or perfect orders or the things that you really want to make want to have more of and make a big deal out of it that will help but you have to ask your people am I giving you the kind of feedback that you really want now you'll have to take some smelling salts with you in most organizations because they will faint at the very question but once you get them back conscious it's a really good dialogue that's good you know one of the most recent things that came about internally and we really believe in sharing our internal best practices was when in asking our teams what kind of measurement they'd want instead of just you know styles and contacts that's not really what they wanted to know two-minute calls two-minute conversations and greater how many two-minute conversations were being held meaning that's obviously long enough that this is a decent conversation starting to happen it's beyond just a simple contact and that came about as a result of asking our people so I love what Chuck saying we did the same thing with our closers are big Enterprise closers we sit down with a look folks what would be the perfect lead for you and we came away with 20 different things and the fact they said if you could give us a lead with all 20 of these factors we would close ninety percent of them well we listen and we put that into a scoring mechanism that dramatically enhance what we do internally and so that's just the best practice get to sit down and ask your people okay Ken again let me let me let me offer one other thing and we'll get it in the e-book I don't have it on the tip of my tongue but it's something that Drucker said and Drucker said that in order for productivity to be advanced you have to recognize that the person doing the job knows more about it than the person watching it and will will I'll finalize that and get the research I don't will put it in the e-book but that really is an overriding statement to the things we've talked about about ask them and get involved and do the rest of it and it's something that every one of us tattooed on the inside of our Island catch I totally agree the next question what could i do this sounds like from a sales lead others what could I do to bring my coaches up to speed with your principles well boy we get asked that a lot these are these are new I mean everyone is buying systems to gamify but we're wondering ok how do i leverage a rather than by the technology but they'll have the system and what Chuck brings to bear is 40 years of experience designing systems and what we do is we put it into the technology so what Chuck and I are trying to work on now is more of this content for everybody so review the e-book that was put out before review my Forbes article go by the game of work download Chuck's scoring PDF is right here today in that sidebar wait for the ebook coming here but more important than that I've asked Chuck to put together you know work or forming an ecosystem of partners here you know because we'll never be as good at chuck at gamification so I've asked Chuck to put together some training video facilitated train maybe to talk about it for a minute Chuck would you mind well we're uh we're trying to identify the best way to roll the role of principles out it's such an individualized process but we would like to capture the principles and somehow make them available across the country awesome so no no everyone we're working on it we're trying and this will this will come from Chuck's team we're going to promote it we're going to do the same thing in all of our areas where we want to bring in our partners that are far more specialized and better than we are but we're pretty excited about the next question where does gamification work best is it with the sales development reps or the closers and I'll take a stab at that one has been I want just to get your thoughts you know we've actually seen more impact with the sales development teams and we have with our closers so we've seen it with both and remember it seems like the the impact is with those leading indicators and we're asking leading indicators out of both teams but the ones that really live and breathe it is the self-development feats of you have you seen anything any principles there Don where if gamification works best chat well I I think works best with people I don't mean I don't want to be a general generalist here but but we've often said and believe this to be true that if a task is important enough to ask somebody to do it must be important enough to give feedback on just let that soak in for a minute but if you're if you're in an organization and you want somebody to answer the phone do an outbound call clean a wastebasket if there's duty that you've decided is important enough to have some to ask somebody to do you need to be duty-bound to make it important enough to give feedback on now if you're going to give feedback on it then implementing the elements of gamification instant contemporaneous scoring etc has to work but it works across the board we've not really seen anybody that doesn't respond to it well that's great that's great this one's probably more for you too how do I get my people to choose to compete I don't know if you add you know you had some strong thoughts on fourth well I pitching into it yeah I think one of the keys and here's something that most of us haven't spent a lot of time on I know we're really close to time but where we need to where you want to look for max for really giant leap frog progress it's not so much in the top twenty percent of your group but in that middle forty percent can you talked about a little bit if you look at it just on an asymptote the middle forty percent only accounts for sixteen percent of your results but the great news is is that they can get gains of two and three hundred percent if they're properly coached and properly engaged but you have to get them engaged and not just blow them away with who the contest winner is and so that's why them I'm a big promotion sky and moving in that regard I think promotions are more sustainable in contests awesome well that's it guys were at our hour mark just beyond this quick review we will be offering these as slides so we've had tons of requests for the slides already in the comments this will be put together as a second ebook we've got a lot more content than the first round you can still download all those different things in the sidebar there including trucks book on scorekeeping including the first ebook that we did so stay tuned I've got some other fun webinars coming up I will be having a webinar with all Allen of Gallup and appreciate everybody coming in Chuck thank you so much for traveling down here from Park City that's a long way to go but what we love having it's always fun thanks again Chet thanks for having us let's take care and I'll all do better