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ladies and gentlemen the next session is access for all public policy to shrink Michigan's opportunity gap joining Amy Liu on stage please welcome the lieutenant governor of the state of Michigan Brian Calley president and chief executive officer of the Hudson Webber Foundation melanca Clark president of the Mackinac Center for Public Policy Joseph layman and to moderate the discussion columnist for the Detroit Free Press Rochelle Reilly [Music] thank you thank you very much I'm thrilled to be joined by this distinguished panel to talk about probably one of the most important things that we can talk about here on the island or when we get back home and that's inclusion I can remember when inclusion words like inclusion and diversity were not dirty words they weren't attached with the pain of resentment or guilt or what have we do wrong so what we'd like to do with this discussion is to look at the future instead of the past and look at solutions instead of what happened to create the problems and I want to start with the idea that we need to focus on all those different ways as Amy said the opportunity gap exists you know we're talking about education we're talking about job training we're talking about people who are returning from stints in prison so I want to start with the lieutenant governor and have a conversation about how we overcome some of those different gaps to move forward well thanks so much I was really excited when I saw this is one of the pillars of the conference because this is so important at a time I say especially at a time when we have overall macroeconomic trends going the right direction to make sure that people aren't getting left behind and so there's an inclusion that's a it's a big concept and it's more than just being open to having people a part of the process that may normally get left out it's the idea of being intentional about it just deciding we're going to do it and a few years ago as I started some work and more inclusive hiring practices for people with disabilities it became very quickly clear that inclusion needs to start alive earlier in our education system so that kids with disabilities have have access to the same education have access to curriculum have the best type of evidence-based practices around them to prepare them for the world so that they'll have more options by the time that they get to to that place where they can find employment but it's also more philosophically it's about trying to get to a point where we where we think about people in terms of who they are and what their strengths are and not be so obsessed with defining people according to what we perceive as being weaknesses or areas of struggle and unfortunately with the group that have been real passionate about with the disabilities that dozen to be the case that they get defined more according to the camps instead of the cans and really everybody in this room you've all got things that you do well and things that that you struggle with well what if you were defined by and everybody knew you according to the things that you struggled with and you really wouldn't get a very fair opportunity to go out there improve yourself in the world and yet data is what people with disabilities face every single day of their lives I'm glad you talked about definitions because sometimes we're not talking about people who are defined by anything we've got kids who don't have any disabilities and are still facing an opportunity to get because of their circumstances and Amy you talked a lot about how to overcome some of those things - yeah I mean I I think it's also important that there are barriers for children but children's success is also very dependent on the income and health and well-being of their parents and so I know that we need to focus on the younger generation and making sure they're in the right education setting and everything but their home has to be a place of stability and security and so I always like these programs that focus on the dual approach where we're helping the parents find economic opportunity as we're also focusing on the children melanca nobody knows more about helping families and doing things in a community that touch every part of a family than the Hudson Weber foundation we're talking in Detroit about some kids who everybody has a parent but everybody's really have a parent you know they have people in their homes but those aren't people who are necessarily either reading to them helping them or doing anything except being in the way what do we do without something like that sure the problems are complex and I first also let me just say how pleased I was like the lieutenant governor and all of us here that this is a pillar of the the convening in terms of the approach I think that you know the holistic approaches are important just in a way that Amy has described I also think just to step back for a moment I think it's important as we think about this equity and inclusion conversation that we get very explicit around certainly marrying sort of investments in growth in cities with investments in people families you know really skills skills training education all the things that connect people to opportunities can bring them into the circle of growth and prosperity that we want to see shared but the other piece is really being explicit about addressing racial inequity in barriers to opportunity I do think we need to be explicit about that I think that often I would challenge a little bit your comment in the beginning about you know certainly we want to be future-oriented about that but I do think I know many of us were here for the mayor's presentation yesterday and what would you know it was great but what was so remarkable about it was the whole beginning section that was a true primer primer on the way in which government policy this is specifically channeled investing away from african-american neighborhoods and of course exacerbated perpetuated racial segregation that history is one that we don't talk about in our communities or not taught that in our schools and I don't think that as we try to sort of get smart about the solutions that we can get smart until we know that history well let me be clear I was talking about this conversation so we're not spending so much time talking about the past I quite frankly think the mayor needs to do that presentation in every church every neighborhood in Detroit fair point the other point absolutely and I you know I think there can be a certain lead offensiveness sometimes around hearing that history but you know this is a history we may not be responsible for but we were accountable to it and so I think that's absolutely key so you know it is very much a both an strategy I think that you know I was I've been with Hudson Weber for the past year before then I was with the Justice Department working on criminal justice reform policy issues which Amy you also mentioned is the barrier I mean those are that's something that as we think about economic recovery I literally think criminal justice reform as an economic justice issue it's so tethered I think we can look to the future very well and not just the past when people are ready to leave incarceration for example they're looking for the future and often what they find is that policymakers have taken something that should be easy and they've made it more difficult than it needs to be and I'm talking about just getting some of those entry-level jobs that that would be the easiest to pick up just coming out of prison or jail which you know there are a lot of challenges there the state license is a hundred and sixty different occupations in nineteen fifty five percent of workers in America needed a government license to work and now almost 30 percent do this correlates with no improvement at all in public health and safety and so while a libertarian might might say well just eliminate all the licenses that's not what I'm talking about you know nobody's talking about doctors or lawyers or airline pilots but there's no reason I don't think why a barber needs 30 times more hours of training than an EMT to get a license in Michigan what's the reason for that I mean you might get a bad haircut from a barber but if you cut your leg off you're going to need that EMT and the this costs about a hundred and twenty five thousand jobs in Michigan a year that probably aren't created costs families over two thousand dollars a year the extra cost of all these licensing and this can go over the heads of folks who attend conferences like these because I think that a lot of us aren't as affected by these kinds of licenses and barriers as some of the people trying to get that first leg up on the on the economic ladder one of the things that the mayor and the governor have stressed a lot in the a couple of years has been this idea of college education versus career education and trying to make sure that young people who are ready for careers or can be prepared for careers have a way to do that in Michigan as opposed to the idea that everybody should go to college everybody should get a degree and then what and I wanted to speak a little bit towards that particular gap and and whether that is something that I have some readers called me and say that's dumbing down our Michigan you know populace or whether that's smart well I I think that we need to reject the notion that this is an either/or choice the there are a lot of academics that could be taught hands on and trades type settings and so I don't think you need to pick between of them between them I think that we just need to be flexible enough to teach the academics in different ways hands-on ways their mathematics for example whether you're talking about algebra or geometry there are ways that you can teach that in construction trade courses to where the theories really come to life you have so you're not memorizing theories or understanding what they mean and what they do and how they apply to the real world I'd suspect I hate to over generalize but I suspect most kids would probably learn better in it with a hands-on type of an approach than sitting in a classroom just memorizing the theories behind it and a whole thing that they're able to connect that to the real world so that's what I'd love to see us move to a place where we're not just exposing kids to more opportunities and trades and all the things that are out there but we're actually using those as tools I mean take FFA for example if you're in agriculture today and you don't know soil chemistry you're not going to make it because the productivity that you have to get out of the land is such that that you've really got to know the soil chemistry and I mean why why why isn't science taught in that type of a setting as well as a potential option so so that's where there's we can do better and we don't have to pick between academics and traits I agree with Brian it's not either/or Philosopher's benefit from living in a world with good plumbers and plumbers benefit from world where a philosopher can explain why it's great to have plumbers in the world so this isn't something isn't something that we where we need to choose but one one one reason we are apt to steer people through a a sieve that looks like the educational institutions is is because you don't need a license to go to school you do need a license to be a plumber or a cosmetologist and we have tended we have tended to conflate our highest aspirations for our children with with one with one model you know Aneta of the model of a college education and I don't know I I did graduate from college but I think I learned more from skilled tradesmen my first year on the job as an engineer than I learned getting a BS in engineering it reminds me of the heating and cooling guy who came over to let me give him $200 and then he just smacked the unit and it worked and he reminded me that doesn't reminded me that you didn't pay me to smack the unit you reminded me I mean you paid me because I knew where but I'd also put too bad on the either-or point that we have to it's sort of the fierce urgency of now right we've got to meet our people where they are and so we can keep that aspiration but we also need to support so I mean when you think about Detroit the unemployment rates and we're talking about you know college education we're talking about basic literacy issues the soft skills around keeping a job if we want to have an inclusive recovery we absolutely have to do the both and and we want to we don't want to put a ceiling on what our expectations are for any population but certainly we you know there are jobs that exist now that folks can't get if they don't need a college education to get them we need to provide the skills and the support they need let's explore that a little more because as you know I've been covering the functional adult literacy problem in the state for fifteen years now and sometimes I feel like I'm banging my head against the wall because we haven't made the connection between business owners understanding that you've got to fix this and the people who have to fix it there aren't enough literacy centers there aren't enough people to teach the number of people who know who need to know how to read but we continue to look at dashboards that say there are 70,000 jobs there are 10,000 jobs there are 6,000 jobs which will always be there if we're not training people to take them how do we get past the gap between businesses who need to do provide that training and the people who are screaming for it well if I could take I just want to take one subset or an example of I mean there there there's a lot of different reasons why somebody becomes an adult and they don't have literacy and one of the one of the groups that I'd worked that I've worked with over the past several years quite a bit with is people with intellectual disabilities and in just the reality of the situation is it may never have literacy and yet what we've seen with some logistical operational centers for example is that before when they had a system where you had to read the the label on a package to make sure that you got the right thing in the right box delivered to the right place at the right time people that couldn't read were not couldn't do those jobs but when when when this when this company decided that they were going to do better at hiring people with intellectual disabilities they decided they would change to a shape and a color code I'm making decisions on what to do with the package and where it goes and here's what they found it was a more efficient system it worked better for people who have literacy also and so it was an accommodation that was made but it simplified the process and it made a lot of sense for the for the company but it's someone sometimes it's you know it's this idea of meeting people where they're at so sometimes it means that you need to intentionally change the way you do things in order to create opportunity for people right now because some people can't really even if you said hey we're going to help you go to school where we're going to help connect you to the sort of thing that they need a job right now and and so that that type of openness to doing things differently sometimes like in the example I gave it ended up being a process improvement for everybody more accuracy and more efficiency for everybody whether they could read or not well I understand what you're saying and that was good for that company to figure out a way to solve that problem but what happens if that person gets laid off or what does that do for the overall percentage of people who need to have functional literacy how do we do both make sure that somebody can work but also make sure that you're increasing the aptitude and intellectual capability of folks who need it you have to do it all I mean it's just a matter of you know you have the short-term needs that you need to create opportunity but out of that opportunity and probably most people in this room and you get your shot at doing something and that leads to more opportunities more confidence to go out there and try new things and I just think creating creating opportunities intentionally not just being open to it but just saying we're going t
make this opportunity happen it just opens up so many more doors for people to do things that maybe they themselves didn't ever imagined they could do Absolution I'm just going to say that I do think that we still need more employer engagement in the skills and education arena I know there are a lot of industry partnerships I think more employers are getting involved but it takes more than just coming to meetings participating on task forces it really requires really deep deep engagement and not just solving problems for themselves but for the entire industry not for an individual firm solution so let me just give you one example of where I saw this you know GE appliance GE appliances in Louisville had the same probably decided you know we're going to come back rish or back to the US and to come back to Louisville in order to do that in order to stay competitive in the u.s. cost you know situation we need to reach shuffle the way we do our work which means we do need different kind of labor and at the same time they saw that they lose from retirement and turnover probably to 300 positions a year and so they're struggling with both upgrading this workforce but also filling constant gaps in the industry I'm sure this is very familiar with a lot of the manufacturers in the room and they tried everything they went to the Community College they went to do this they talked to the workforce board and never could they find a sustained solution and so they decide to take it upon themselves to issue an RFP and they were agnostic they basically said we need a solution we need someone to come up and tell us how are you going to provide 500 workers per year for instance that fits this requirement and if you can do that we will hire and pay for the program where hire the people participants and we'll pay for the program and they set it out throughout the entire stage and they had no idea what they're going to get back and they get got an application from the local community college the workforce board the K through 12 system tapping into West Louisville where a lot of low-income kids and public housing residents are and they came up with a solution about how they're going to prepare high school graduates for these manufacturing jobs by sitting through a very updated community college program because the manufacturing credential program didn't exist or wasn't modern enough to meet the criteria that was in the RP when they did that basically GE said these workers you know I didn't even we all care about their race we don't care about the income we just care about the skills and the people who came through this program that young people were better than folks we hired off the street and now they do almost all their hiring to this program it's gotten such a good reputation that the supplier started to use the same credentials and the entire industry is now and to the point where it's I've never seen a workforce board I work a web say Wow we've got so much demand from industry right and so this is where an employer took it upon themselves to send a signal about what they needed and the partnership came that created something I think is more systemic and that's going to create an ongoing pipeline for this really important industry for the long haul again tapping into a high school network so I just think if we can see that kind of engagement for employers I think that it could be that the community college or the high school will start to say you know to keep up with 500 we're going to have to focus on adult literacy right we're going to make other additional investment to make sure we can continue to meet this demand so that that's the kind of engagement we need to see from employers more and more across the country I talked to an entrepreneur yesterday on my drive here and he has said many factories in Michigan and other states and he told a story of where government cooperation worked well and a story where it absolutely didn't work well where it did not work well was he was referring to a program that I've talked about before one of the corporate welfare programs of Michigan through the economic Michigan Economic Development Corporation which selects some businesses for subsidies and assistance and tax credits and things what he found was he was training his own employees and had worked with them through the years to get them the skills that they needed that they hadn't picked up in school and the companies that were politically favored in some way that got the subsidies to create a new plans instead of just nursing along an old plant for 50 years like the entrepreneur his workers were going to work for the competitor and I'm sure these jobs showed up on the balance sheet of the Economic Development Corporation's program but they didn't subtract away the failure of oil now we've got employers who were losing you know losing their trained workers to that but on the other hand he had a story of what worked and this was in another state he was training people to operate CNC machines and he quickly found that he had become the training center for every business around and his employees were leaving so he partnered with the local community college and this was an example of a partnership that did work because the college wasn't providing any of this training and he said I've got this problem what can you do he said I'll put up half the money myself if the state can put up the other half to provide this kind of training and all of a sudden he found himself you know he was sure he we it was a good business decision for him but he wasn't hemorrhaging all his employees and of course it worked for the employees themselves well you just raised a really good book both of those four great points but Amy you talked about how there needs to be a larger step up with businesses quite frankly would be great if that West Louisville program could be you know done by state or a whole city issuing an RFP to solve a problem I would love to see that but talking about not learning from our history and I'm glad you brought that up milanka I have been here for 17 years now in the state of Michigan working in Detroit and every year we have the same problems with reading with the kids who are coming out of the Detroit City Schools and every year we have those kids that we're talking about several missed opportunities they get to the third grade they're not reading it level they get to the sixth grade they're not reading it level they get old enough to drop out and they drop out and then you've got an unemployed person that you're trying to figure out how to fix and yet this has been true the whole time I've been here so when do we stop that vicious cycle and how can businesses step up to do that because you can't have the entire growth that we're talking about and like you mentioned in your program without dealing with the fact that you're continuing to push people into the unemployment pool from the time they're 6 years old or earlier or earlier I'll take I know you all look son no I thought you were directing the question else now is it conversations they this is a issue it's just bigger than the than a school system on its own can handle and that's the you look at just the overall aspect of everything that's happening in a person's life the the the level of the the level in the place where the education needs to occur and environmental change that has to happen it's just bigger I mean schools there are there are things that schools can do to accommodate what happens outside of the school or to mitigate what has is not happening outside of the school but that only goes so far so so the the approach that where if you know if there if there's assistance and this is where a lot of our social programs I think they really need to move toward is to the extent that were that we're providing assistance that that assistance should be tied to something that is sustainable in the long term so not just not just a standing person a person where they're at at that time and that family where they're at the time but how do how do you help them to raise their station in life and in most cases that's going to require something at the at the parental level saving a child is struggling that much and and I mean even and it doesn't I mean I I think for low-income areas it's particularly challenging but I'll admit that I I really needed help and re-education about how to raise my daughter with a disability I didn't I didn't really know how to do it everything that I did with my son didn't work for my daughter somebody had to had to spend time with me so that I could learn how to be the right parent for her and and so that's the that's the when I talk about like an individualized education plan for everybody which is what I was a model that I'd love to see not not just for some kids but we but we look at that for everybody but it goes it goes beyond that what is in the way of this child learning and if what's in the way of that child learning is there is a literacy in the home then there are different ways that that deck could either be mitigated or may be permanently fixed I mean maybe it means that the parents learn you help the parents learn to read that'd be the best probably option but maybe it also just means that we that we have reading coaches that spend extra time outside of school with these kids in for a better short-term option but the idea of of just expecting that the finite period of time that each house is spending in school can solve the problem I just think it's unrealistic well when you're talking about the type of and I don't always like the word wraparound services because it implies something finite but when you're talking about wraparound services for kids and a family quite frankly I think what should the business role be in that is this something that you know businesses should do either for their own employees for a particular neighborhood for a particular portion of the city if we're talking partnerships and talking about that overall growth and the bigger picture growth what is the role of companies well I think I think flexibility is the precursor to getting the answer to that question businesses if if we're if we're going to ask them to to fill a need they'll fill it if their survival depends on they'll have to you know just just like my friend who said hey I'm going to fund this community college because otherwise I'm losing my I'm training and then losing my employees and so there are many things that prevent companies from being flexible enough and part of that is we've built of publicans public education institution that's relatively impervious to big innovation and Clayton Christensen would say we shouldn't expect innovation to occur within sight you know inside large institutions that are kind of the incumbent institutions it comes from outside just generally that what's that's really sad will expect innovation from inside large put it but if you see a doesn't doesn't happen Eve it happens to companies Digital Equipment Corporation is a classic example that the Clayton Christensen leads with and they got their lunch eaten because innovation is very difficult from within and so I talked to the taxicab industry I'm sure they thought things were great until whoever came along there was nothing that prevented the taxicab industry from inventing uber on their own but they didn't because they didn't have the same pressures and so there if if government policy in general can create a climate where businesses are free to try free to fail maximum flexibility if they're not sort of steered into always having to partner in a cookie cutter way with the local schools but to try different things and with what mitch daniels is doing at purdue university lots of critics he's taking a risk but he I think Purdue has bought Kaplan and so you have a kind of a flagship university in a state and they've purchased an online college education company or online education company and they're going to try to run them alongside each other it Daniel's is scared to death that his own institution won't be able to innovate its way to the future from the inside so let me jump in to your broader question which is how do we break the cycle of poverty right and I think we heard some of those ideas from the mayor yesterday trying to right the wrong of history and making sure that we do create in neighborhoods and environments and stable housing environments that really allow people to begin to reverse course and find a different future so I think a lot of different ways to break the cycle I do think the one place where employers can help is some of the ideas I talked about in my presentation which is around how they provide work based learning for young people we put out a paper last year that I think in fact I think the city of Detroit actually took a look at - around how to make summer youth employment more meaningful in the wake of the Baltimore riots and the riots around the country I think a lot of mayors and cities have now realized that the summer youth program is one of the most the best tools the mayor has do like capture capture whole groups of young people touch them really that they may not be in the system if you will they may not be at a Boys and Girls Club they may not be getting services but this is a one time a year that they can touch a lot of young people and so why catch them for six weeks right for the summer so we thought if there's so much energy around Summer Youth jobs how do we make it better one is could we think about better more employer partnerships that when that the goal isn't let's make sure 10,000 kids end up in a summer job maybe the goal is quality of experience that every employer who provides an opportunity for a young person has a job description has a supervisor and when that young person leads that summer job experience they will walk out with a reference a reference a mentor a contact that will then get help them get to the next opportunity and get a taste of what it's like to have a positive professional work experience and but that means lawyers have to take that role very seriously and we need more of them but then the issue is how do we extend that six-week experience to connect kids to other city programs or to connect to programs and opportunities there year round and I think employers can really help provide those opportunities maybe they come in as seniors for summer job it can extend into a fall internship for some of those that you know want to do that so I think that the the most important way to break the cycle right now is the access to networks the access to experience of soft skills that the desire to and eagerness to see that they have vowed you know people want to have dignity of work dignity of contribution and the more they get exposed to those career experiences I think really can-can want them to you know maybe we go on to college maybe get a two-year degree now I want to really now I see why I want to get a certificate and we just need to give that that you know provide that incentives and reward for young people and the only way that can happen is employers provide that experience so I so that's the experience we're experiment that we're starting to see in a lot of cities including people have bright actually I mean the thing that's remarkable is that and not new to the city of Detroit but the business community has come together around just this issue and also particularly around summer employment and I think the thing that's been really refreshing and certainly is hearing Amy's examples of the wonderful things that are happening around the country you know business leaders and I think this is this is you know very true in Detroit really like some of this is not there are such wonderful models that are happening outside of the state too and so being open to that learning and bringing that in and I as I understand it the the Commission the Workforce Commission and if that's the right public that came together actually commissioned work on how are these summer youth programs working well outside the country and how can we bring that specifically into Detroit that kind of collective action so it's not just a one-off I mean it there's not going to be true
raction if it's just one business making a decision about what they're doing but kind of linking hands best practices in and the public-private partnership piece like businesses can't move all of this on their own - a lot of this work we're talking about education I don't want businesses if it's early in trying to develop the curriculums now I mean this is there are certain areas of expertise and partnerships and also and also just for the the larger question of addressing these issues we also want to make sure we have community voice I mean lots of communities you know and thank goodness business leaders have come in to kind of try and develop the solutions for disinvestment and the like but the other thing that has to happen is that the community has to have a voice and what's going to happen and so we have to make sure that those efforts are married and that it's not just one thing or the other well I don't want to leave without a little controversy so let me ask him out of the box question I was intrigued by the mayor's plan that he does now to not provide tax incentives for developers who come in and create housing and they don't give a certain percentage you know of affordable housing opportunity to folks have we gotten to the point because of the need in a comeback city like Detroit and in a state like Michigan is working on reinventing itself and putting people into the river of opportunity as the governor calls it and we gotten to the point where businesses should be asked to commit in some way you know sign a pledge of allegiance to this growth plan or doing something and and not necessarily having a list of all the companies or you know bad company they're not doing anything but maybe celebrating companies that are deciding to do what needs to be done to provide this type of training and to close the opportunity gap I'm not suggesting outing big companies that do nothing although that's what a column is for but but is it time to sort of take this very public and you know because you can tell the stories of companies that have done well and done things that we should tell all of those stories but we should make people want to be the subject of those stories is that asking too much to make it a very public sort of report card but what has been happening in Detroit since there's and you look with the great leadership that mayor Duggan has provided and so many other organizations institutions is creating an environment where it just seems like there's more and more people that want to do those things and and I could give you many many examples of companies that are going out of their way both lending expertise to be a part of the policy making system and making good things happen that maybe the the city itself couldn't really afford that expertise but but the people with the know-how er are spending time and in helping to develop those plans to directly creating the opportunities for people to go there and in either build the resume build the soft skills get the experience or at the end of the day get to get a job and more than a job a career so those are things that are happening and I'm a big fan of positive behavior reinforcement so when it so when you have something that's really good like that it should be celebrated it should be bragged about it should be pointed to and and I think you will get more and more that are interested in doing that but it's it's more than just because there's good recognition there I've noticed this sense of corporate social responsibility that is really permeating throughout all different kinds of businesses all different sizes of businesses and and so I think the future looks bright because of that so I think you're on to something it's just it's just a matter of really helping to to keep the environment right so that it keeps on happening if you got a city that's working well people feel good about doing something to make it work a little better as opposed to as soon as I can go in the wrong direction are my efforts really going to help I think people feel like now I could do something that's really going to matter the mayor's idea to restrict the tax incentives is itself evidence that the tax extended shouldn't exist it's a well intended political requirement tax incentive programs are always going to be politically designed and so therefore they're always going to trace back to somebody's politics which is always going to make a big chunk of the electorate upset and lose faith in government in the end it's an his idea is about all the argument we need that they shouldn't exist at all I'll tell him you said so try Kay well one thing real quickly is I want to remind people too that I don't think growth in Detroit is necessarily assured right and I think one of the things that we don't not that I don't want to overburden companies but small midsize companies are still trying to just generate enough revenue to survive and we need to make sure they have an environment to do that and stay in Detroit and you know one of the things that when we were looking at some of the black employment numbers and wages you know one of the things we learned is there are first of all I just wanna remind people two-thirds of low-income people actually have jobs and so they want to work when they are working but somehow we're not giving them the pathway to get to better job the other thing we're seeing is some of that in some markets the reason why wages are dropping for African Americans is that when they change jobs they go from a middle pay job and to an entry-level job and they're slipping down and that may be because the supply of good jobs are disappearing and so how do we hold on to good job they're provided by small midsize firms and so I just think there's a lot of different factors that are really impacting what may be both in the demand and supply side of creating pathways for opportunity for people so I think we need to focus on skills we need to focus on employment employment opportunity we also got to make sure that those good jobs are around in the market that's the mandate and we're going to leave it there I want to thank our panel so much and thank you all for staying to listen there's Oh that's horrifying I'm hiding from my bank customers they want actual financial advice isn't they absolutely made money can't be complicated but at Huntington we love answering questions hey I've been trying to get in touch with you to help me with my savings ma'am can't you tell spending quality time with my son
