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given that you have a sensitive experience with rental properties and owning investment properties in general and you still keep close in touch with your property managers and people that manage those some of those rentals in general what should DIY landlords focus on right now given the current pandemic situation and all the unknowns that have yet to play out well I think you know your answer is kind of built into the question there are a lot of unknowns right now so as a landlord I can only really say what I'm doing with my rentals and that is there's a lot of unknowns and so I'm proceeding as normal I already have policies and procedures in place you know rent was due on April 1st and I was flowing through that and any tenant that is having any unexpected issues definitely uh need to reach out as normal but on May 1st rent is due as well and so yeah with a given unknowns it's business as normal yeah and it is interesting to note actually that I believe some surveys have come out showing that tenants in general have paid I believe it's something upwards of 90 percent of tenants have paid rent on time for the month which is pretty normal for prior years for the same timeframe so nothing too crazy has played out yet though that has been kind of the theme in the media that the rent would not be paid we really just haven't seen that with a bunch of these surveys that have come out from landlords and from companies that process rental payments across the United States so but are you familiar with the SBA's economic injury disaster loan and is that something that DIY landlords or small property management companies may want to look into in the event that things do go south and one of these upcoming months rent really does actually go unpaid and instead of 90% paid its seventy percent paid I definitely can't say I'm an expert in the topic of the SBA loans however I do know that those are the same loans when I was working with the governor those are the same loans that were assisted or offered for assistance throughout Texas when they were hit with hurricanes I know they've expanded that program and I don't know if property managers belong to that category I know SBA has also expanded their 7a the PPP loan is what's known as three P's this one has loan forgiveness in it and I know it had a caveat against real estate developers and so I believe that is expanded to anyone who is a DIY landlord and therefore has any part their business it's self-employed so if they do any of that they would qualify and then there's also the tax credit I for the name of the program but if you I think the two requirements are that you've lost 50 percent of your revenue month-over-month or you have completely shut down the new are can ultimately file to get some tax credits so but on to just a fear and the sake of what's going on right now in the amount of communication I think it's is better to leave that you know it was extremely knowledgeable about the topic and not just generally so if there are any questions about that please don't refer to me go to sba.gov and there's lots of information that they're putting out every day for that or you can find a local SBA lender in your community which sba.gov site has and so I would definitely refer to going to those as resources to find out you know the exact some who and how a lot of eligibilities are yeah the sba.gov website has a lot of great material and information and I believe you can even do some of the actual applications and stuff through that website but I definitely want to check that out I know personally some small businesses who have filed and received the PPP forgiveness loans or something along those lines and so I do know that a lot of people have been approved for those I've also heard that a lot of people have not been approved for them but it doesn't hurt to apply for if you meet all of the application requirements but in general with the current unemployment rate and the economic uncertainty what are some ways that landlords can work with their tenants that would both help the tenant make a payment when money is tight and still allow for the landlord to have an income and pay their bills this is a touchy subject you know as a landlord out there waiting to get rent there's a mortgage it hasn't been a lot of talk of how to assist landlords but you know the general census consensus out there is how do we help tenants and so there's a misconception that you know these all you know are landlords those are businesses of what you have to make their mortgage payments they have property taxes David they have utility - just like any other business and so an inability to recoup the rent or to have actions against at rent really is only hurting the small business more than protecting a tenant and that's because if any of these landlords lose the house with a lieutenant to has lost a house so to protect just a landlord or see if we org to protect just a tenant and see it from just a tenant point of view is a misfortune you know I think from a lot of you know viewpoints and unfortunately landlords are always you know the viewed bad guy and I'm thinking how long standing history but it is really important as a landlord to understand what kind of economic environment we're in unemployed as 4.4% but that's only stated and it's about a month behind sown they tracked unemployment those people weren't foliage when I part of survey that's back in February and so if you look at just unemployment benefits then you know what has been filed we're looking at you know over twenty million people over the last month of filed for unemployment benefits and then if you count in those who operate under a 1099 and so unemployment benefits are just those paying to us you have to be a w-2 employee so 1099 year talking about another ten to fifteen million people who are unemployed and so you take that into account it's not four point four percent it's nearly thirteen to fifteen percent of our workforce and said a fifteen percent unemployment right now is unprecedented in a one month span and we're now just into April and so we have not seen we're still shut down there's not a lot of changes and so there are some economic predictions around hitting thirty percent we have an oil shock that just went through a country and so a lot of the oil industry was already stretched and on financing and people think oil impacts Texas maybe North Dakota but think of all the things that are produced out of a lot of these independently owned and operated oil franchises all the way down to every piece of plastic that's used lots of production lots of byproducts in agricultural and fertilizer and each one of those wouldn't be impacted by this and it'll probably cost a lot of roll-ups and so there's quite a bit going on in our economy that we definitely should take note something has happened and about twelve years ago we were facing a time when lieutenants really had the power and rentals and what I mean by that is if you were a property manager or a landlord you would offer maybe you know a month free rent to move in plus a VCR or DVD player that gives you this time frame but you'd have you know incentives to move in and those have long gone now you can demand you know first month's rent last month's rent plus security deposit and rent prices are going up and so as you know demand increase then it puts power more into the landlord's hand but if you know tenants are shifting and looking for new places to live and moving in with each other divorce rates drop as happened in 2008 to 2010 a lot of those things reduced a man enough to me and lowers and that will naturally leave supply going then you know rent prices have a good chance of of dropping and as rent prices drop a demand from tenants drop it means the name of the game won't become how do I increase rent the name of the game will be how do I maintain you know full occupancy rates so it's really about making sure we find ways that we are working with tenants and hearing what tenants are going through so we can plan for that because if the market does change it means it's going to become more expensive to get a tenant and so vacancy rates are gonna cost us a lot more so right now the average vacancy is between twelve and sixteen hundred dollars and that means you have to do a bunch of repairs you have time if the vacancy goes down you have marketing you have lots of due diligence time to get the tenant to move in and all those are costs and so to really get those cost cut down that means you need a tenant as fast as possible and so when this terms it means if there aren't sent if you have to do or lower rent those are just added costs on top of that so the game is really going to be about how do you keep good tenants and you know maintain them for a long time over all of your properties and so finding ways to do that it's really important in talking to tenants there's lots of ways I would say right now going back to the other question there's a lot of unknowns so there's no need to do a lot but the one thing and that I've noticed in talking to landlords that is probably something to be avoided is just due to the regulation that has happened in many cities where there's a limitations on how you can raise rent you should probably avoid racing rent for the short time at least just because you are not wanting to scare off in each a net might leave right now the name of the game is how do I keep a tenant how do you maintain low occupancy rates and so there will be issues where we have to think through like what if they can't pay rent how do I keep a tenant to me to go through the things so there's like deferred deposits you know there's definitely a deferral plan I said to for pauses and makes them but a deferral plan and possibly using part of your deposit I think something that's gonna have to be thought about our rentals that involve lots of roommates you may have one roommate who can pay and another one who can't and so figuring out all those leases in advance and making sure you kind of have a plan of attack on how to address those and important because if there's roommates involved you may have you know a couple of really good tenants and you may have a bad one in there and seem to figure out how do you how do you manage that so yeah there's there's a lot coming out and a lot to be thought of but I think the key here is buying those really need to understand that we're going into an unprecedented you know time in the economy and it's definitely one where we need to be very keen on making sure we keep our tenants I completely agree with that assessment the there's also been several articles come out and there's been more information coming out as the cares Act was passed and a lot of cities have been able to receive allocations from some of the funds from that for instance the city of Houston where they received a chunk of money from the cares Act I believe it was four hundred and four million and they were able to set aside at least 15 million for funding rent relief and essentially what it is is landlords can apply to participate in the program as long as they agree to not evict their tenants and set up payment plans for past due balances amongst other requirements and then once they've done that they can direct their tenants to apply for assistance to cover any rent for the months I believe of April and May and so there's different scenarios like that playing out across the United States and it definitely isn't unprecedented a time when it comes to layoffs and also when it comes to people being able to cover their rent in a mortgage and yes the the overall consensus or trend in stories online has mostly been regarding tenants and nobody's really talking about the landlords who if the tenants don't pay well then the bank doesn't typically get paid the mortgage and then if the bank takes back the property then like you said both the tenant and the landlord are out of a house so really doesn't do anybody any favors to only talk about it strictly from a tenant perspective and so it's it'll be interesting to see how this continues to play out but so far it looks like that scenario that is playing out in Houston even though 15 million is not a significant amount of money when it comes to rentals in a city that large it's still interesting to see how this will continue to play out and hope for the best but definitely plan for the worst and like you said retaining existing tenants is of the utmost importance and so doing things like incentives to renew renew early even keeping rent amounts the same things like that a lot of landlords are starting to utilize those types of tactics to try to keep their tenants in their rentals as opposed to having to compete for a new tenant with other rentals in the market that are also vacant for one reason or another likely due to the scenario that we find ourselves in right now as far as federal regulators go some of them have allowed homeowners affected by this pandemic to have their mortgage payments possibly reduced or suspended for possibly up to 12 months is what I've read in a couple places do you see this causing more of a problem in how could landlords avoid this issue as well as be proactive about receiving rent payments from their tenant it's important to understand the Fannie Mae Freddie Mac and the majority of their loans were multifamily and it's a lot of the smaller or DIY landlords you're not dealing with a Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae loan and so even though they put out this announcement and everybody was like wow this is great this is really helping is going to help landlords do a lot of things most landlords who are managing their own properties are small property me and yours it's not going to help at all because they don't have any of those loans and so one that's that's the first thing even so most of the loans that go out to the smaller DIY landlords and about ten years ago this shifted kind of in the financial crisis and about 40% of them are commercial banks and so those are your Wells Fargo's JP Morgan's you know of the world and then the other ones are through private lenders and so if you think private lenders and commercial banks are going to be giving landlords a lot of leeway and probably not granted all of them in 2008 there were all recipients of tarp and so they all got a bailout and helped even Morgan and Wells Fargo become our country's largest two banks but with you know a lot of roll-ups of other banks as they went under but now they don't seem to be as friendly towards landlords right now so it's it's definitely important to understand that you know what you read out there is a lot of alleviation for landlords but that isn't necessarily the case there's actually not a lot of help for the smaller ones it's the multifamily larger reach cetera seem to be getting some help and so right now I can tell an Lord's you know it's really important just to be focusing on how do we keep low vacancy rates maintain high occupancy really finding ways to work with tenants to to bring rent in and so avoiding you know any unnecessary way to get rid of a tenant of course if they can't pay then it's not a it's not a tenant I can stay there but finding ways you know maintaining rent and working with tenants to get that rent in is really important so to summarize that basically DIY landlords are not necessarily going to be receiving any type of assistance at least not from the big news about the whole Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac thing and the name of the game is again to really try to retain tenants and to incentivize tenants to renew early to pay early and so on and so forth so that makes complete sense now with some states having a grace period of up to six months with no late fees or evictions during the shelter-in-place order what in your opinion are some ways that landlords can potentially avoid their tenants from taking advantage of that and falling way behind on rent and then just getting into a situation that really isn't good for anybody yes there are some states Oregon is definitely one of them when I originate from is I've been watching that quite a bit for watching all the states and there are some quick actions to judgment there one thing to really focus on wh n it comes to tenants is just like a landlord if you've heard that things are gonna be lenient allowing you to you know delay some payments you know it's gonna accumulate over time tenants aren't any more foolish and so one working with them because definitely you want to keep your occupancy rates high and make it some rates low and so we're talking with them is important finding out you know each individual situation I don't necessarily think it should be a company-wide policy but you should already have ways if people are struggling if they can reach out to you and it and address it and you know go from there but one thing to think about is just in general in economics incentives are very powerful and so tenants know that this is going to come back and no it'll be there so thinking of you know the stick and carrot it's a great way to you know really look at the care outside of this and that is you know thinking of ways to offer discounts maybe for receiving rent on time and this is one of those genius incentive ways that as tenants are thinking through paying when like you know if there's if the rent average or in the country is a little under twelve hundred dollars now and you know if it's us you know $50 lengthy you've paid out for the fourth you know you might do the same thing where it's actually if I can get the rent in now you will find it's much better than a tenant who is delaying and try and see if they can take advantage of a situation and just see what happens definitely follow all your normal standard procedures that go out but to offering incentives offering carrot instead of throwing a stick out could see your rents increase so we've already started doing that effective an hours in April and so it's been pretty successful and so we'll kind of maintain that in the four hours but yeah just looking for creative ways to work with your tenants you know to maintain that relationship that's great to hear that you've had some early on success with the whole Keri incentivizing tenants to be able to pay rent early and incentivizing that it's everybody's definitely in a situation that it's not really good for anybody and so working with the tenants is definitely of most importance like you said to reduce vacancy and retain high occupancy rates and using the whole stick and carrot approach definitely valuable information for landlords to be listening to and I have heard many landlords mentioning that as well that they've definitely taken the whole carrot approach giving as much as 10% off of rent for early payments and that they too have seen quite a bit of success with that so it's great to hear that you personally have experienced that early on and that you've seen some success with that with people having to leave things like luxury rentals though due to the crisis for instance Airbnb is even raining back in their luxury rental side of the business do you see a potential shift in rent pricing for some of the higher rents in the United States this is a fun question what's strange right now is even in this market so there were there were some interesting things already happening in our economy as we went through data we saw in q1 for the first time of 2020 rents started to decline there only by 1% so but your you did see it and so this sort of happened at a time when the shift and the rental market was happening and so if everything had stayed normal I think right now we'd be talking about you know we're all rinse they're flat or slowly declining so having that sort of already happening and this is definitely a swing overall however in the middle of this you're actually seeing the luxury rentals slightly increasing I know that sounds strange you're also seeing second home kind of vacation type home increasing which you would normally see those decreasing and a lot of that is because families are you know running for the city and looking for places you know that are you know more luxurious that they can camp out for a month to two months and so a little more room than or maybe normal apartment or something and so so yeah we'll see what happens with luxury and how long this goes on but you know the home away type VRBO homes right now seem to be increasing your average working-class neighborhood these are the ones where you are seeing a small adjustment rent so it dropped already a little bit and so you're starting to see it took a few more days to get a place rented and so those changes already were happening in q1 so I'm cute too you're definitely gonna see you know that start to change even more and so what happens is landlords who have vacancies are trying to compete now for tenants as they compete for tenants they're gonna go into a pricing war that by definition is you know lower rim prices and when you have lower rim prices and then you know you have a street and there's five rentals on it and one of them now rinse for $200 less than yours your tenant will hear about it and then that word will spread and then everybody when one comes available for you know two hundred dollars less than your current rental they'll apply for it and you know that is that is when tenants take you know kind of power you're having to now either grapple with lowering rent to a tenant or remarketing that if the tenant moves out at a lower price in order to win tenants that's why the last thing you want to do is lose your tenant it's really a game right now about winning tenants making sure they stay and keep the communication log of course they gotta be paying a good tenant is one who pays low maintenance request and pace and so that's my definition is a good tune it and this market is about keeping good tenants so if you have one you know really be open to new ideas about how to keep good tenants and don't go through the cost of trying to you know end up competing for a tenant on a vacant unit you will save money overall by maintaining a good tenant in your ranking yeah a paying tenant and a low maintenance tenant is definitely the best tenant to have for sure I hundred percent agree with that statement and yeah I there's definitely been a increase especially now in vacancy rates for vacation rentals especially since travel has pretty much come to a screeching halt and there have been articles and whatnot published about that so I totally agree with the whole assessment of the rental industry and what you noted is interesting is people trying to get to places outside of the city with more space and whatnot which makes total sense with the whole quarantine thing in place and shelter in place and even though a lot of those restrictions are being loosened up I think a lot of people have been fundamentally affected by the shift cultural shift and awareness in people's perception of germs and how easily things are transmitted and the whole social distancing thing and I think that that's going to affect people for quite some time to come and so it's actually a very interesting point that you make about the whole rentals out further out of the city like in the country and stuff that's actually I find that a very very interesting point I'm curious to see how that plays out over the next 6 8 12 months and maybe even beyond that that's definitely a very interesting point that you made there given how connected the world actually is now and things like this could actually happen more often in the future potentially what are some ways that you think DIY landlords can prepare for future unknowns so that the next time they're required to stay inside for one two or even three months they'll be more prepared that's a fun question I definitely have an answer for that one and that is really setting up your tenant landlord relationship in its full capacity intended cloud it really allows you to have video pictures you can request you know a number of things from your tenant I mean really have no need to even go to the rental if anything you can do a quick drive-by it once in a while from the outside but I mean pay rent message sign lease agreements send notices back and forth you know collecting rent maintaining your full accounting all that you know the full flow of a maintenance request even down having contractors and you know assigned schedule to go over there can all be done digitally and so really moving to that kind of you know experience and utilizing tenant cloud for its full capacity and it's - is full capacity and for all the features that are available to you they were they were designed just for this you know kind of a situation to allow a tenant landlord relationship to be something that doesn't have to be a face-to-face it wasn't for this purpose necessarily in mind that we are now dealing with it was more for the general landlord to be able to be remote from anywhere any place but it is in the same vein that you know you can utilize the benefits of technology now to really maintain a great relationship with a tenant and run your business another data point to put out there that's really interesting as we have gone through a rent and that is tenants have the ability to set up automatic payments or the rent and if you compare rinse that are paid by a check checks are 10% lower and being paid on time for April and those that were paid online and then if you look at those online compared to those that were paid with automatic payments there's a two percent deviation so anyone who had automatic payments online had almost no interruption in collecting rent those who had payments available for the tenant to pay online but didn't have automatic payments were then the second highest to get rent paid and anyone who's doing cash or check of any sort there was long delays I mean I think tenancy pay with a check in cash are already hopefully no one's accepting cash that should be a major faux pas now it's gonna be extremely hard if you have to now go into the court systems to do an eviction through all this and you have a history of collecting cash of any sort it's gonna be the least supported that a judge is gonna look at because you took cash there are a few records you know a tenant can kind of say whatever they want and you're you're down with no real history other than your your accounting software which if you do hopefully you've tracked it all and in a cloud because that will be your only saving grace if you've accepted cash checks are the next one you don't want and it's tough to mail you there now it already takes three days from able to come in plus your check now it's going to take seven to nine days for clearing and must-play to time or most banks so if you are the hold check fashion hopefully you've already found that that's out but believe it or not not too many years ago 82% of rent was still cash cashier's check or a paper check and so with that still out there there's a lot of people who still collect rent in this fashion and I think the jury's still out whether or not a paper check can carry any type of a bacteria that lives for too long sigh we're not so certain that collecting check on that it's necessarily dangerous but what we do know is by collecting a paper check you're just giving an excuse for your tenant to tell laya even longer and so have it be immediate set them up for automatic you know accounting inside tenant cloud so if they're late the late fee is triggered immediately the seconds are late and so you don't have to be the bully to do anything accounting software doesn't for you leave it on the tenant to have to ask for a waiver don't automatically give a waiver and if you take paper checks there's a big disputing time because technically you have to accept so if it's from the time the letter was posted so you're not gonna receive that for three days and then you have to deposit it so by allowing your paper check you're really giving them almost two weeks in grace period before you know you can push a late fee on so you've kind of created this whole variance that's hard to you know trigger when you should charge the late fee and if you do there's gonna be this big big dispute or if it's digital it's automatic they didn't pay they know they didn't pay and boom automatically the system came in and so now the burden is on them to ask you to waive in you're gonna find fewer of them so naturally you're gonna have more people trying to pay on time and so yeah definitely set up ten o'clock get the full extensive you know suite of services that are available inside of there so your tenants can be you know one prepared on their side to pay you and two you can be set up to receive your rent to maintain your rental business yeah that is one of the cool things that I get to see firsthand is landlords their feedback about how they're able to now manage their rentals remotely with no hassle whatsoever and the automatic payment feature is definitely a big hit with both tenants and landlords alike for obvious reasons but tenants love it because they don't even have to think about it in fact some tenants say they just set it to pay and they're good to go and they don't ever have to think about it and they don't even necessarily need to log into their account unless they need to submit a maintenance request or talk to the landlord through TCC messenger or whatever but and then landlords love it because they get their payments on time and they don't have to take chase any tenants down for rent payments or send out reminders it's really reduced a lot of the workload for both parties involved which is good for everybody and so it's one of the cool things as being able to see that firsthand and that landlords really enjoyed the ability to be able to work remotely wherever especially at a time like this and definitely agree with the whole check thing not quite certain myself haven't read too much about that about the whole virus thing being able to stay on a document or paper or anything for any given period of time but I mean why risk it just you have the ability to accept payments online so and it's definitely convenient and a lot of landlords have certainly been taking advantage of that and tenants also especially now that a lot of offices are closed and/or they've been forced to close by the state or city that the landlord and the tenant are in even people who have had physical locations they no longer have a physical location they're not even able to go there and open up the doors and so people really haven't been able to have any of that interaction you can't walk in and hand somebody a check any any more anything like that and so yeah definitely take advantage of checking out tenant cloud and the full suite of services like Joe is saying and check out the automatic payment features and the automatic invoicing features and functionality and all of the online banking functionality the no there's no payment processing fees if you use the ACH payment processing service on tenant cloud through the integrated TC payments powered by doula and so definitely check that out it is very cool to be able to use a tool like this at such a time as this so I appreciate you taking the time Joe to sit down with us and help answer some of these questions that a lot of people have been asking and providing some of your personal insight into how you see things proceeding from here and your experiences so far as you have personally encountered some of these issues yourself with rentals you've managed so definitely appreciate you taking the time out of your schedule to sit down and go through some of this with us and hopefully some of the people who are listening or watching this have found value from it and remember that you can check out all of our media content both podcasts through sites like Google podcasts stitcher anchor Apple podcasts the whole nine yards you can also check us out on our tenant cloud YouTube channel just type in tenant cloud YouTube and Google and it will come up as the first link on there and check out our media content we have full system webinars demos instructional videos and then other media content on there as well as other interviews sit-downs with Joe Edgar the CEO of Tennant cloud and providing some of his insight into landlording and property management and also of course tenant cloud and so again thanks for taking the time to sit down with us Joe I real y appreciate it