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from the edge media studios in downtown Indianapolis this is Indiana issues here's your host Abdul Hakim Shabazz hello and welcome to Indiana issues the public affairs program will go beyond the headlines sound bites and bring you Indiana's news in its entirety today on Indian issue scope at 19 and its impact on the budget what does this mean for schools Republicans and Democrats and the attorney general's race and a political potpourri our guest today still doing some social distancing a Republican feed seat Democrat Kip - and libertarian brat clapping Stein so gentlemen appreciate you all being with us well state revenues have plummeted due to kovat 19 the state apparently has had to dip into its billion dollar tip into a billion dollars with a surplus and expected to lose possibly another three to four billion dollars so can the state survive cannon function with such a revenue shortage Pete seat my friend let us begin with you how was governor hook I'm going to do with all this well we can start with this Indiana is in a much better position than our neighboring states and a much better position than most states in this union because of responsible Republican leadership we have reserves we have balance our budgets and whatever pain comes as a result of this unprecedented pandemic is going to be less severe than what we're going to see in some other states on top of that just this week in a Budget Committee meeting we had the OMB director Chris Johnston say that the state is holding back on some of the cares act funding that we received from the federal government in the hopes that the federal government will loosen up some of those purse strings and let us use those dollars to fill in some of these budgetary holes so that is tibbie's yet to be seen but we're in a much much better position to weather this storm than our neighbors and we should be grateful for that Democrat Kip - Kip what do you think can the state survive can it make it through with this revenue shortfall well he in the we had a surplus I think though that we don't know whether we're gonna have a wave - we don't know what lies in store with us for coated you know it rain remained you can really say about it let's go to Britt Brad clapping Stein Brad your thoughts on our state revenue shortfall by an Indiana survive I think Indiana as Pete said is gonna fare fairly well compared to our neighbors two billion dollars sounds like a lot of money until it comes time to actually spend it so we'll see but I mean I think Indiana's in fairly good shape right now that the key is gonna be how quickly we recover and how quickly business gets back to normal but I think Indiana is gonna do better than most states just because we did have a surplus when most don't Brad we'll keep you on camera for the second year Bob because that's a good thing is uh you're the president so the Lawrence Chamber of Commerce up how was business up in Lawrence how are those folks managing how are they surviving Lawrence has actually done fairly well we've lost a couple businesses I think any municipalities gonna have some attrition but we're not really losing any more than we naturally would and I've noticed that businesses are starting to get back to normal whatever normal is gonna be it's gonna be different in the future and I think that everybody's kind of had to reinvent themselves and and adjust to you know whether it be social distancing or PBE it's all gonna be different but I think Lawrence is gonna hold on hold up fairly well I think it's gonna be your large urban scores that are probably gonna suffer a little bit and they're gonna be a little slower to come back be it downtown Indianapolis just because they're so reliant on convention business and visitor business basketball games football games those things aren't happening so I think that you're going to see suburbs and rural communities fare a little bit better throughout this Pete one of the things that is popped up is also the issue of taxes of Indiana's a relatively low tax state but suppose the question is can the state survive without a tax increase at least in the short run well I think you're gonna see let's talk more specifically about local governments and municipalities I think you're gonna see the EM start looking at some projects that were potentially shelved over the last several years they would necessarily take seriously in the hopes of increasing the tax base so just keep an eye out for that and and similarly with the state I mean we're lucky we're in position where we were adding jobs and we were growing our economy we were investing in infrastructure and education because of our attractive economic environment and the strength of our workforce and so hopefully we're going to be able to utilize that yet and to bring new jobs and to bring more funds and more revenue and hopefully not have to see a tax increase like a state like Illinois which is probably going to have to impose a massive one to fill their budget shortfalls let me get your thoughts on this our tax increase is inevitable or can the state of Indiana hold off on raising taxes well I guess depend on what we want to spend we can hold off for a while don't know how long but at some point you've got bills that come due that you need to pay which are k-12 education higher ed ropes an infrastructure type of thing so at some point you're gonna be squeezed and I think we're gonna find out here in the next few months how bad that squeeze might be you know I will say this I don't think the economy has at least for the people who are did well going in has hurt them all that much it's the folks that are at the bottom the biggest price for kovat right now the essential workers if you will the folks at Kroger work in your checkout counter the frontline nurses all those folks that long as you're getting Brant let me get your thoughts on that because obviously once again you're the president Lawrence Chamber of Commerce how our business is doing the likelike cube just said those those workers on the lower end of the scale I actually agree with Kip on this that they're the ones that are feeling the brunt of this the people are gonna be okay are the ones that are on salary and have been paid throughout this but you're right it's the service economy in a service industry think is gonna be slow to recover and for the most part I think people have enjoyed the extra $600 a week in their unemployment benefits but that's gonna run out and so I've heard both both sides of this I know there's some employees that are elected to go back just because they don't want to go back to making half of what they were just because they can only have a staff the the customers they have so it's gonna be slow and there's gonna be an adjustment but yeah I think the ones at the lowest end of the the economy are gonna be the ones that probably will be the last to recover you're watching Indiana issues i'm abdul hakeem shahbazi editor and publisher of indian politics at org our guests today are Republican Pete seat Democrat Kip - and libertarian Brad clapping Stein gentlemen one change gears a little bit despite the bad budget news that we saw this past week the schools apparently are going to avoid the budget cuts for right now K through 12 education will receive an extra 183 million dollars in addition to 192 million dollars I'll get in a corona state relief and Economic Security Act the governor said he didn't want to touch funding for schools but he did take about hold back 7% in higher ed funding Kip let's start with you your thoughts on schools and money and budgeting and what did it this means for teacher pay well it's PC I know I sound like a broken record with respect that I'm sorry about that but I mean you know we're going into a budget session here in January so the next six months are going to be you know critical in figuring all that out with respect to how what the economy does over the next few months you know we've lost millions and millions of jobs across the country which means that you know revenue is not going to keep up with it because people without jobs can't pay taxes and Sarah it's going to be a mystery to see and we don't even know what schools going to look like in August or September that's another thing I think we need to really worry about how we're going to open them up and we may be talking about that a little bit later but you know so far I think that it's it's an encouraging sign that the governor and fiscal leaders have said we don't need to cut K through 12 and hopefully they can keep that promise Pete see let me ask you can the governor keep us proud of not cutting K through 12 education certainly hope so and I think this most recent development is a very very positive step and it shows the true commitment that the governor and Republican leadership have to education funding and we've had over a billion dollars in new dollars going into K through 12 education since Eric Holcomb became governor in 2017 and now we're making sure that these these increases that are planned will continue but the big question is of course as Kip said the 2021 budget session teacher pay was going to be the dominant issue the pandemic now came into the picture and we're trying to figure out what school looks like what traditional learning looks like in person learning elearning hybrid approaches it's anyone's guess how that's all going to shake out come the fall and the spring of next year and whether the teachers and the education community has the the political wherewithal to continue the conversation if they're distracted by just trying to to stay above water as we navigate the pandemic Brian let me get your thoughts on that teach on the issue of teacher pay in particular because I know you happen to you know be dating the teacher right now I'll do his teachers expect no a salary increase or has the pandemic basically taken it off the table right now I teachers are nervous and I think it's just because they hear a lot of rumor and innuendo and they you know they see that there are some agencies that are that are having to suffer through some budget cuts I it's in the budget so at least for this year I think that the teachers are you know there's not gonna be teacher cuts just because the state's promise the funding and the funding should be there in a future it probably well look different I think the state's gonna have to figure out how are they gonna handle eLearning I know I had lunch with the superintendent of Lawrence Township Schools earlier this week and he and I talked and and he was saying listen there's never been a period in time where kids have been out of school for as long as they're going to be out of out of school this time around he goes but the fact is education happens in person and kids will be back in the schools this fall and I think that that's probably going to be the standard I think that they'll probably take some precautions but ultimately kids will be back in school and I don't foresee a budget coming on that I cap what is this what do you think this will do for colleges universities because whether it's IU Purdue or Ivy Tech or Indiana State University or Purdue University at Fort Wayne they've had to go back about 7 percent of their budget do you think they'll be able to manage and get through I do but it's a it's going to be tough 7% not an insignificant amount of money for all these schools you know some of them have been smart and done contingency planning so I think that you know that's something that they can hang their hat on I would hope that when we take another look at the budget we try to do it we can - sure that 7% up because higher education is the key to our future and when you cut the key to your future you're not helping your future so seems to me that you know you need to you need to be funding those things those kinds of investments that lead to long term economic development lead to greater knowledge we don't so we don't have a deficit in that area as well so they're there they're actually the most critical after K through 12 of things that we fund in this state and I think that that 7% cut is a big it P before we take a break here I want to get your thoughts on this particularly the the the local government element tell this because local governments don't feel the pinch for you know a year to 18 months out of any sort of economic damage that happens at the state level if you revise your local government speech seed what would you be telling them to do right now well as I said earlier start looking at things that they maybe didn't take seriously a year or two or even five years ago and I'm already hearing that from local governments there they're really trying to cast a wide net and look for opportunities thankfully we've got some pretty strong economic development zones regional zones around this state that are actively competing to bring in jobs and economic development to their cities and their towns and so you're starting this see that happen and you know even though they may not feel the pinch for another 18 months they're being very long-term and thoughtful in how they approach this because they know that the pinch will eventually come Brad real quick here before we break curtain Shepherd you see that making a comeback possibly I mean I've heard things it's like they want to cut recess and physical education I just don't know how you can do that I mean kids need the release to burn off energy during the during the day and I mean educators know how best to educate kids and you can have all the Commission's you want to take a look at it but ultimately I think we need to trust those who went to school and have at least bachelor's degrees and oftentimes advanced degrees and educating children let them do what they were trained to do you're watching Indiana issues i'm abdul hakeem shahbazi I didn't publish of any politics at or our guests today are a Republican petesy Democrat Kip - and libertarian Brett club son go take yourselves quick break when we come back the race for attorney general and some political potpourri explain me what that means you're watching Indiana issues for the edge of media studios in downtown Indianapolis we'll be right back [Music] [Music] and welcome back to Indiana issues I'm abdul-hakeem shahbazi editor and publisher of Indian politics at orc our panel today consists of while doing some social distancing by the way Republican Pete seat Democrat kept to a libertarian Brad clapping Stein well gentlemen was a busy race for attorney general these past couple of weeks Democrats picked Jonathan wines Apple to take him to run be their nominee for attorney general he beat Senate state senator Karen tallian by 51 to 49 percent meanwhile Republicans had their race this week candidates where there was Attorney General Curtis Hill Decatur County prosecutor but Nate harder former Secretary of State and congressman Todd Rokita and Annapolis attorney John Westerkamp all made their cases before delegates and voters so let's start kid with you the 51 49% win for John Westerkamp my friend what does that mean and what are John's chances of victory in November are Johnson a very good race it obviously was very close I think it was less than 50 votes separating them only eighty percent of the people that returned their pass from I understand which it doesn't make me wonder why would you run for state delegate and not turn your ballot in but that did happen Jonathan is a very very good candidate obviously he's a two-term mayor from Evansville a former state legislator himself he knows what it states in politics to win he's a very smart guy he will be a very very good competitive candidate Pete your thoughts on the Jonathan Williams Apple win or the Democrat side well I think wines that full benefited from being the trend of Democrats with unpronounceable names doing well and the other pimpy Budaj but look saying that he won 51 at 49 percentage-wise as being kind it was a 48 vote margin of victory extremely close and despite wins apfel's bank account he has several thousand dollars in his campaign war chest it was rather miraculous that he was able to defeat Karen tallian a female pro-marijuana which I'm sure you love Abdul liberal candidate in th s environment the fact that wines Apfel was able to be a really really truly was miraculous of course on the Republican side we've got our own battle now and we'll see how that shakes out and we'll get to that battle just a second Brad club assigned your thoughts on Jonathan wines Apple win this week I was a little surprised by that and some of it the libertarians actually chose not to put a candidate into that race and it kind of lined up and said that that they would support Karen tallian so I'm not sure what's gonna happen now that Italians not the nominee I just kind of presume that she was going to be be the nominee and I knew that she was gonna have a libertarian support behind her now that kind of changes that race a little bit let's switch gears let's change over to the Republican side of things we had like I said Curtis Hill Nate harder Todd Rokita and John Westerkamp all make their cases this week in front of delegates other on the state virtual convention Pete let me start with you there's Curtis he'll have a chance at winning or is it gonna be time for Quito or what are the other two well I think this this race remains very competitive it of course has had a lot of twists and turns dating back to July 2018 when the allegations against Curtis Hill and what happened that night at the sign he died party first became public then you had John Wester can't get in Adam Krupp get in Adam Krupp get out and a harder get in finally tie rakhie to get in I think most people would say at this point it is between Curtis Hill and Todd Rokita however I think what's most important is if Curtis Hill is unable to get 50% plus one on the first ballot I think it is very unlikely that he is ultimately the nominee I find it hard to believe that people voting for Todd John or Nate and whomever drops off on that first and second ballot that they're going to choose Curtis Hill as their second choice ultimately if you're voting for one of the other three you're actively voting for an anti Curtis Hill candidate let me get your thoughts on that because you've so you've been you know state parties here you've seen conventions before does Curtis still have to win on the first ballad or isn't basically over for him I think Pete's probably right but you just don't ever you know no I mean Rokita voter and the Curtis Hill voter I think are pretty similar probably have a pretty similar outlook on life rakita has you know gone all into on Trump and Hill has gone all in on Trump and so you got two Trump errs running and so that you know but I think what it's going to happen is the second ballot will be against will be Hill versus Rokita and so rakita may get those votes instead of Hill who knows but it's probably right about that if I'm Jonathan wines apple I want to run against either Chris Hill or Todd Rokita so either one of it's going to be the candidate I would want bright let me get your thoughts when we go to our next topic does Curtis he'll have to get on the first ballot I think Curtis Hill does have to win on the first ballot that I agree with with Pete on this that yeah it's it's either a referendum on your Pro Curtis Hill or against Curtis L but I don't think that those crossover very much I think Curtis he'll probably survive Iverson becomes the nominee but I can see that getting very contentious and I think the general election this might be an opportunity for the Democrats to take one you're watching Indiana issues weekly public affairs program I'm your host abdul-hakeem Shabazz owner and publisher of India politics at org our guest today our Republican Pete C Democrat Kip - and libertarian Brad clapping Stein well gentlemen the political potpourri moment I want to share some primary results with you we noticed something interesting with about 97% 98% of the votes and I want to show you this chart Donald Trump basically four to 94 to 96 thousand votes 43,000 voted for Bill weld Eric Holcomb actually the top vote getter in the primary with about five hundred fifteen thousand votes Joe Biden three hundred sixty six thousand one hundred ten thousand voting for Bernie Sanders people to judge the other candidates and dr. woody Myers three hundred and ninety one thousand Pete let me start with you look at these election results what does this tell you about the Indiana electorate or does it say Oh to tell us much of anything I don't think it tells us a whole lot of anything it's hard to put stock in primary numbers like this particularly on the presidential when it is a foregone conclusion who the nominees will be we knew that Donald Trump would be the Republican nominee and Joe buy the Democrat nominee so it's much easier for a voter to cast a protest vote in one of those primaries much harder for that same voter to cast a protest vote when it comes to the general election and it's all on the line I would say having said that you know it's clear that Eric Holcomb is in the driver's seat and the governor's race I think we would probably all agree to that maybe with the exception of KITT but with a 72 percent approval rating for his job overall and 83 percent approval rating for his handling of the pandemic crisis he is clearly in the driver's seat he's not going to be as he would say he's not going to be caught watching the paint dry but I think he is on a glide path to reelection kept your thoughts on those election results and once again doesn't really tell us anything about the electorate I agree with Pete in the FIR I can't read too much into primary results I think that because the dynamics were different on both sides and you had it already decided so I would say if you're an incumbent and you have that many people voting as a protest vote it does say something and the question is whether or job ID and can pick those people up but I'm it's still a wait-and-see as whether Biden's even going to compete in Indiana and if you're asking me today I'd say he's probably not going to compete so it doesn't really matter as to the governor being in the driver's seat I actually I completely agree with Pete he is in the driver's seat but that doesn't mean he can't crash the car and so he definitely you know as the odds-on favorite to win the governor's race but there's a lot that could happen between now and November we've seen so many things happen already just in three months we had a global pandemic we had you know the killing in Minneapolis that has set off massive protests all over the country and black lives matter protests and so who knows what's going to happen in the next three months and so yes the governor is in a good position but no race has ever led five Stinson listen isn't Braille sorry real quickly you know ARC's our candidate dr. Myers is on paper in a perfect position he's a physician you're in a global pandemic people may want to turn to somebody that knows something about medicine is there gum Brad let me get your thoughts on like the the dynamics and all this do these numbers really tell us anything I think had the number of undervotes been significant it appeared it was about 8% for governor Holcomb you had what about it and again nine 10% devoted for bill weld as opposed to Donald Trump had those numbers been 25 30 percent I think that there would be reason to be concerned if your air kolka more even the president here in Indiana but I think those numbers are small enough that there was a little bit of a protest vote but not enough that it's really gonna affect things too much I do think Donald Trump probably carries Indiana even though I'd love to see a good result for Joe Jorgensen and then I I just don't see the Democrats though and a lot of resources behind will be my hairs I think Eric Holcomb's fairly popular he hasn't really made any missteps so I I would foresee the Democrats on a statewide level putting most of their resources behind their attorney general candidate Kip do you see that happening that Democrats with limited resources they have will go book will try to get the Attorney General's race rather than the governor's race well I like humor people think that there's some you know grant behind the scenes everybody's gonna say let's all put our money here and not put our money there that's really not how it works at a statewide level how it works is whoever works the hardest to convince people to give him money as one gets the money and so what he Meyers has to convince people that he's a viable candidate for him to get money I think Jonathan - Apple already has that in his bag people know he's a serious candidate he's he's won before he's been a state Rep he's been a mayor he knows what it takes and he knows how to fundraise what he's going to have to get after it but it's not a question of you know Democrats all get in a room together okay we're not gonna give money to woody we're gonna give the job that's not Pete I'll give you the last word of that before we switch gears and close up the show yeah despite their electoral record I think there are a lot of very smart Democrats and they're going to see that the smart money is not with Woody Myers it is depending on how the Republican convention goes on the Attorney General side it's in that race and it's in the fifth Congressional District race maybe they're gonna marshal their resources they don't have to you know get a Kumbaya room together they can just have individual people who say hey I want my money to be spent wisely and they're likely going to put it in those two baskets and see if they can succeed all right gentlemen before we close up shop here we get to our part about predictions prognostication so as you look into the political ether and let me know what you're paying attention to so Brad clapping see we'll start with you what do you keep an eye on what should who just be watching I think we should probably watch closely how quickly things get back to normal whatever normal is going to be as far as business wise obviously looking to see what our what the state's tax collection revenues are for the spring there's they're certainly gonna be below projections much below is gonna be important and then watch to see what the plan is district by district I think is how it's gonna go on when schools go back in the fall and what their calendars look like how much it's gonna be in person and what in-person schooling looks like all right Kip - what are you looking at what should Hoosiers be paying attention to I think that'll be wearing masks I just I'm in a gas station I filled up with gas right before we started this I walked in there I had my mask on nobody else had their mask on north of Carmel by about 15 miles on us 31 nobody's wearing a mask I don't understand that behavior it makes no sense to me whatsoever the CDC everybody says wear a mask and if people are not gonna wear a mask then my prediction is we're gonna have a second pretty bad way in the state of Indiana so I think people put your darn masks on it's not that hard all right Pete sleep what's in the political ball for you well I'm looking a little outside of the political ball and I think the Cubs will end 2020 undefeated the st. Louis Cardinals will when a single game and that is to say I am very pessimistic about major league baseball coming back so while it's not politics its political in nature because of the back-and-forth between the owners and and the players and as a Cubs season ticket holder it bums me out hey I'm a White Sox fan and see how America's fans so I can feel your pain my friend all right I guess they have been Republican petesy Democrat Kip to libertarian Bob Stein gentlemen thank you all very very much with me what stay we do appreciate as always and that'll do it for this edition of Indiana issue special thanks to all of you as much thanks to our friends here at the edge media studios in downtown Indianapolis i'm abdul hakeem shahbazi editor and publisher of indie politics at org thanks for joining us and we'll talk to you next time folks on indiana issues