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how will oklahoma ranchers and farmers fare under the new biden administration its clear priorities and policies in place under donald trump are being rescinded or modified with new ones taking their place will that hurt or benefit agriculture in oklahoma that's the topic of this week's in-depth conversation with moderator susan cadeau and her guests thank you rich we are here with two special guests who are going to make clear all of the ins and outs of what's going on in the state of agriculture a very important industry for the state of oklahoma and for the nation and anyone who really likes to eat there is much going on on the national field that affects this industry and we want to get some answers as to what's happening and what needs to happen in the future to make things better for our farmers the guests we have joining us are blaine arthur who is the secretary of agriculture for the state of oklahoma and rod moselle who is the president of the oklahoma farm bureau thank you both for being with us thanks for having us susan all right ron we're going to start with you president biden is taking a look at rolling back the changes made to epa rules by president trump how could this impact oklahoma agriculture if regulations like the obama-era waters of the u.s were put back into place that is one of the biggest issues of concern to our members with the change of administrations the epa during the obama years had become a real lightning rod for concern amongst farmers and ranchers about the the ability to make decisions about the use of their land and waters of the usa is probably the most controversial of many rules and regulations that uh that the agency was espousing in those years and and it's really about the definition of navigable water for generations the the states have regulated water that was not navigable like our our state water resources board and state epa or state environmental agency in the feds would we had authority over navigable waters well the obama administration had tried to dramatically change the definition of navigable to even to the extent that if a area in a farmer's land had water standing at some point in the year in some cases regulators were trying to claim federal authority over that land and so most farmers and ranchers were very relieved by the trump administration trying to clean that up and return to the traditional definition of navigable waters with some more clarity on that and and so there's great concern about if that clarity is rolled back and we're back to this uh the big questions about what is and what isn't controlled by the feds and what's controlled by the states feel free to jump in here and what does that mean if it does go back to the way it was before what does that mean for farmers well it's incredibly challenging for our producers epa under the previous administration had been more agreeable to working with producers from a regulatory perspective in the ag world which is very much how they want it to be we are certainly kind of keeping our eye on this new administration and what direction they're going to go under the obama administration i would not say that epa was a friend to agriculture and i think those are the very similar concerns that a lot of our ag producers have as this new administration starts making some changes and we'll certainly keep an eye on those and continue a dialogue from oklahoma what happens if the federal government declares um it has standing on navigable waters on a producer's land well in oklahoma we've been fortunate we hadn't really gotten to any specific cases yet our our the regulators in this part of the country still had enough understanding of agriculture that it had not become issues specific cases but there were a number of cases in california and oregon and washington and and maryland and other coastal states where the regulators the federal regulators in those areas had literally started telling farmers they could not farm on significant portions of land and even finding folks for plowing a piece of land uh and and the fines got into the millions of dollars and caused the loss of some of some farmlands in in california because of the penalties and all that were involved and in cases that were still working their way through the courts blaine governor stitt spoke about a number of ag issues in his state of the state address last week how confident are you that he'll follow through on his commitment to oklahoma agriculture i'm very confident in governor stitt's support of the ag industry here in oklahoma we're certainly very glad to see ag mentioned and farmers and ranchers mentioned so many times in the state of the state of address as well as issues that are so important to our ag producers the governor is very engaged in ag issues he understands that ag really drives the economy here in the state of oklahoma he also understands that sometimes we have challenging issues that we have to work through so i absolutely i feel like he will support oklahoma agriculture and also continue good dialogue with all of our producers and our commodity organizations you know ad alarm taxes come into play rod how concerned are farmers producers that those taxes might might be increased well we're very concerned and ad valorem has a disproportionate effect on farmers and ranchers because we have to have in it depends on the commodity or the crop but most most types of agriculture have to have a significant land holdings uh that they pay abalone taxes on and very expensive equipment they pay below them on and so that uh they can end up with very high ab alarm taxes just because the nature of our business and that land and equipment we have to have and and that's so as a cost of business it's a way bigger percent of our cost of business than it is for most other industries uh because we are so land and equipment intensive and and in agriculture there's a lot of times one very good year and then two or three bad years and so people have to be very good at managing their finances to save from the good year and to deal with the bad years and those property taxes they want to be paid every year whether it's a good year or a bad year and so it's a really tough effect on farmers and ranchers and that's why we're so passionate and concerned about ad alarm tax increases wayne as we look to a new administration that is going to have an impact on on many areas of american life it looks like tom vilsack will once again be the u.s secretary of agriculture how are oklahoma producers feeling about that i would say they are cautiously optimistic producers are familiar with secretary vilsack from his previous tenure under the obama administration so um there is some familiarity with how he runs usda what his focus will be certainly i don't think he will probably be as conservative as many of our producers here in the state of oklahoma uh but we are familiar with how he has approached things in the past so we at least know who we're working with and what his focus will probably be what what do you what do you think about uh vilsack is he going to be a plus a minus or neutral for oklahoma producers well i i think as blaine said that we're hopeful the good news is that we know secretary vilsack and and he comes from an ag state in iowa and having served eight years in the obama administration almost all the ag groups a lot of ag leaders have had a chance to work with him and and so compared to a number of the other choices that president biden could have made we think he's he probably was the the very best choice of the ones that the bible administration was looking at but uh and we're hopeful uh that he'll listen that he'll set up times to visit with us and listen and and give us the attendee veer and and as long as he does that i think it'll work out fine the next thing i want to address with the time i have with you both um is um putting land in conservation explain to folks who may not know what that means um rod i'll let you go ahead and explain that for us well there's there's lots of different kinds of conservation programs i mean are you know sometimes it's our state as a leader in conservation practices and a lot of times that can be just a decision of how you manage the land that year and what crops based on what the what's going on with the weather that year and so forth other times there have been programs that set that land aside for for 10 years or or longer so that it's in a more native habitat or a natural grasslands and and so uh each of those have their role and there's always these arguments about how much land needs to be in production to provide the food that we need to feed americans and feed the world and and how much that needs to be set aside to to deal with greenhouse emissions and other other issues of that type so boy i understand president biden has a plan to pay farmers uh for this is that well you know that's it's a very good question and as rod mentioned here in oklahoma we really lead the way in voluntary conservation efforts and that's where we've always liked to have our focus is have that be voluntary programs as opposed to regulatory programs um when we do incentivize producers which nrcs has done for a long time through eqif and other programs we know that producers want to be good stewards of the land and they've done a lot of wonderful things here in oklahoma to put conservation practices in place i think sometimes our concern is when as rod mentioned we have these lengthy requirements as far as the years that they've got to be in crp then sometimes it takes that productive ag land out of production and that's where we've got to find a good balance of conservation combined with production all right um i want to move away from from from those issues into just the issue of aging um producers are aging in america and in oklahoma is that a concern and how can we even address it blaine i'll let you take that one well it's certainly a concern and with the average age of producers continues to go up over time you know you get different numbers but probably in the mid 60s and the transition of these operations is a concern to us it is very difficult for young producers to get involved in production agriculture unless there is a generational transfer of property and assets and we need these young producers to come on board but it's it's a lot of hours worked um in ag it's a lot of outside in the challenging weather and so i think for so many of our ag producers that they've gone and pursued their education and they would prefer uh to maybe go to town and have a more of an eight to five job so a big issue for us real quickly on how we are working to address some of those pieces at the department of ag we've started an ag youth council this is our second year of the ag youth council giving some job exposure opportunities to those high school students and then we certainly always work with our commodity groups and i'll let rod talk about some of the good programs they have there at farm bureau for young farmers and ranchers yes we're we're being particularly active at farm bureau across the state and trying to encourage and support 4-h and ffa activities we have 12 colleges in the state that have agricultural training programs at the college level and of course osu is one of the top in the whole united states uh in a whole myriad of ag programs and so we're we're working hard to support those kinds of things and uh we're now trying to promote some new intern type opera opportunities but one of the big challenges that uh blaine and i both spend a lot of time worrying about is we're such a capital intensive business with relatively low and unstable returns like like i mentioned earlier some years you might have a really good year but then you may have several bad years it makes it a very tough environment uh to get young people into with with those with those high capital and and uneven return type scenarios so we're we're trying to work to find new solutions that we're exploring a rural venture fund that has one possibility there's lots of other ideas and trying to figure out ways for financing new farmers one thing that happens the folks that go into farming usually are passionate about it because the challenges are so great that the folks that come in are passionate and have a real heart for it we just need to make it possible for those people that have the passion to get started in their operation or to take over operations from these aging farmers that is a real challenge to our industry and really to the whole country because doesn't that passion come from your family did it i mean if you aren't already in the farming arena do new people just pop up and go that's what i want to be how often does that happen well i would say until the last 10 years that's probably where most all the new farmers came from but if you if you go look at the students coming into the ag schools at land grant schools like osu right now a significant percentage it may vary by institution 25 to 50 percent are maybe folks from urban areas that are passionate about food local foods the local food movement has driven a lot of this and so we're for the first time we're seeing a lot of a lot of outsiders to agriculture that are exploring agriculture and so we've got to come up with ways to help figure out how to help them make that transition not just past school or past starting a some small local food effort but in into the bigger field of agriculture how does corporate farming play into that blame well i know uh corporate farming probably seems negative to the general public but most of our um operations at our corporate farms are actually family owned and operated they've just chosen to be a corporation for a variety of reasons and um you know there's there's room for everyone in the ag sector is what i believe and we need small medium and large size operations to be able to feed the world so we're certainly excited about these new producers that are coming in and have a different focus some of them on specialty crops or locally grown opportunities but we also need those large operators here in america we have the safest most affordable food supply and a lot of that is because of the economies of scale of our larger operations well our time is just about up but i do want to ask for uh a final words um rod i'll start with you final words for the general populace we're not familiar with the farming industry what would you like to have us know well we're blessed with just the finest finest folks in the world that are involved in agriculture they're uh literally the image you have of folks helping one another is what agriculture is for the most part and and we're delighted to have the opportunity to to grow the food that feeds you three meals a day and a lot of snacks in between uh we're delighted to have farmers that are growing uh growing the fiber that is the clothes that you're probably wearing we're delighted to have the farmers that are providing the tourism and experiences that you have and i'm out of horticulture we enjoy feeding the soul with pretty flowers and plants and trees that help green up the environment so agriculture is an absolute blessing to be in and every day it's it's such a joy to be involved and to get to get to watch seeds at your plant and cuttings that you plant turn into turn into crops and and to have the chance to help others through that work well okay rod's pretty passionate about the horticulture and the farming and we're so glad you're in place blaine what are your final words for folks who may not be familiar with the um the food industry but that you think we need to know well i just think it's important for everyone to know that ag producers will continue to do the work that make sure that that food shows up in your grocery store and on your table certainly through the challenging year of 2020 we kind of came up with a catchphrase that said ag doesn't stop and when so many other things in our world and in our economy did stop our farmers and ranchers and the food sector continued to make certain that that product was available ag has driven the economy here in oklahoma for forever really since uh the state got started and we'll continue to do that we ce tainly had some challenging years but i also feel like there's a lot of opportunity on the horizon for agriculture and we look forward to having the chance to educate consumers more and work collaboratively together to keep ag moving forward they're certainly heroes no matter what happens they go to work and get the job done i want to thank you both for joining us and i look forward to speaking more with you in the future as issues arise