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well entrepreneurs small business owners and  leaders welcome to the thrive collective oh today   is going to be such a fun episode i'm so glad  that you're tuning in dr j.j peterson is in the   house today literally wrote the book on how  to build a sales funnel that works for your   small business today is going to be a riot i'm  so excited to have dr jj with us you know just   a little bit of an introduction for dr jj since  2013 he's used the story brand framework to help   thousands of organizations small business owners  and leaders clarify their message in order to   grow their business with donald miller dr peterson  co-authored marketing made simple a step-by-step   guide to helping you build that sales funnel that  works he holds a phd in communication and has   spent like decades teaching communication theory  around the world and today as senior director of   story brand dr jj peterson does travel around  facilitating story bringing workshops keynotes   and helping small businesses grow and today we are  so excited to have him on the thrive collective   with you so welcome dr jj peterson to the show  oh thanks so much rob i'm so excited to be here   every time i uh you and i get to work  together a little bit here and there and   every time we're on camera together because we  haven't been together in you know a year and a   half it makes me so happy so i'm so excited to  be here and hang out with you for a little bit   oh it's it's such an investment into the  entrepreneurs small business owners and leaders   as well so thank you my dear friend uh so jj yeah  you and i know each other and have for some time   and i feel very blessed by that but some of  the folks tuning in may be meeting you for   the very first time so before we kind of kick  into our topic today i'm just really curious   what's your story how would you kind of  give us a little context what brought you   and what is for some of them might be asking what  is story brand we talk about a lot of episodes but   just love to hear it from you the yoda so yeah  give us a little context brother yeah so story   brand really is all about um helping companies  clarify their message because so many you know   you you know this so many companies especially  when they're getting started and even just leaders   have a hard time communicating to an audience in a  way that actually increases engagement right they   and and we would say they actually most of them  don't even know it but they're telling the wrong   story right they're trying to get people to  do things move them to action by engaging   by buying products or just even as a leader trying  to move and cast a vision move a company forward   but so many of them are telling the wrong story  and so what storybrand does is comes in and says   here's how story works here's there's story  is really formulaic so here's the formula and   really story is the best way to get people's  attention and motivate them to move forward   and there's a ton of research behind that but this  is how story works and then this is the story you   should be telling within your organization and so  that's that's really what storybrand does there's   more to it and i know you and i will get into  it but that's kind of the basic premises people   have a hard time communicating in a way that  engages people and moves them forward changes   their actions and story is the way to do that so  we teach people how to do it so what's interesting   for me is my background uh you know my undergrad  is in public relations and communication and so i   actually graduated from college and went to work  for a non-profit that builds homes in mexico well   really all over the world and um did marketing and  branding for them and um and then ended up kind of   a wild journey i became a pastor for a while and  then did improv comedy for a while and worked in   hollywood for a little while and then i went  back into the non-profit space and ended up working for an organization that does community  development in eight different countries in africa   and then taught communication ended up teaching  public speaking and marketing at a university and   became dean of students and it always kind of felt  like my life was a little bit you know i'm here i   am a pastor and then i'm working in hollywood and  here i am you know raising funds for a non-profit   and then i'm doing comedy and all of these it kind  of felt like all over the place until actually i   came to storybrand and how that happened was i um  i was dean of students at a university in southern   california and i uh as you do in southern  california i sold a reality television show   and uh the show was called baday brothers  and the premise was that my brothers and   i who also are both ordained pastors were so  not bad a that we couldn't even say the word   and the way that we would up our bad a reputation  is we would travel around the united states and   find those old weird laws that are still on the  books like you can't cross the minnesota border   with a duck on your head or you can't have an  ice cream cone in your back pocket in atlanta   and we would research the history behind those  laws and then break those laws so we could be   more bad a and so i had sold that show to  a production company and i invited donald   miller out kind of as a last hurrah for myself  to speak at the university that i was at i was   like he's my favorite author i'm gonna have  him come speak to my students as my farewell   um and so we just hit it off and became friends  and i started saying i'm branding this television   show and he said well i'm launching this new  thing that helps companies clarify their message   and he said why don't you come out and test test  it with the um with your show and so i came out to   nashville from la and i started clarifying my own  message through this framework and it blew my mind   i mean it i here i had been doing communication  for 20 years whether it was preaching or teaching   or trying to write emails that raised funds  or campaigns or create websites for nonprofits   and i genuinely thought i was an expert  in all of this stuff and then came to   storybrand and was blown away and quickly was  like this is i wish i had this the last 20 years   you know when i was sitting there writing  emails trying to figure out how to   get people to donate to this non-profit or  create a website or even just like as dean   of students get all the students on board with  the new direction we're headed with a vision and   i immediately actually stopped working on my own  story my own brand at that workshop and i started   helping everybody around me because i was like i  get this makes sense to me i've studied story he   just made it simple and so i started helping other  people and he was like i'm doing this i'm teaching   by myself right now would you mind coming out to  nashville and every once in a while and helping   and so i did so that's kind of the long story  but that's how i got to where i am and really as   i looked back i said you know i'd always thought  my life was very kind of eclectic and all over the   place and as i got to storybrand i realized that  it was always about story it always was whether   i was doing non-profit work and trying to engage  people in the story of their lives being changed   by being engaged or the lives of the people who  we were serving whether it was doing comedy or   working in hollywood um you know teaching people  how to communicate better or just preaching   every single thing i did was try to learn how  to tell story better and help other people tell   story better in fact my my master's is in theology  and the arts so it's actually a study of story in   film television music my my master's thesis was  a 30-minute sitcom that was an exegetical tool   for the book of ecclesiastes that's literally  that's literally what i wrote as my master's   thesis was how to tell the book of ecclesiastes  in a sitcom form and so just you know it's always   been about that and now i feel incredibly lucky  that i get to share this tool that i discovered   um you know now seven years ago with people  all over the world um and i get to help them   clarify their message create invite their  customers or their audience you know and i'll   probably use customers a lot in this podcast but  when i use the word customers i really mean your   audience so whether you're a leader or you're just  getting started out or you've been in business and   non-profit for a long time when i say  customers really what i mean is audience   and so anytime you want to engage your  audience you want to be inviting them   into a beautiful story not just telling your story  not just trying to convince them of something but   inviting them into a beautiful story where their  lives are changed because they're engaged with you   and you say i mean jj this this framework  works and i love the backstory for you of   experiencing the clarity of that and now you  get to be the primary champion overseeing   really the arm of business made simple which is  story brand uh and really that's kind of your   baby now it's so exciting to see that yeah  i feel really blessed and lucky to be able   to do it because it changed my life and  i immediately want to help other people   so it changes theirs well i'll tell you our lives  have been changed as a storybrand certified agency   and and guide you know we've worked with well over  a hundred companies around north america helping   them implement this framework and we're one agency  there are many others as well so really the impact   of this uh is thousands tens of thousands  maybe even hundreds of thousands of companies   that have been totally impacted and changed for  the better as a result now what's interesting is   they come in with a common problem this whole  messaging idea and i think you know here we   are today talk about sales funnels uh why is it  that building uh a business at a distance online   why does that seem like rocket science to  someone who's not familiar with a process   what kind of challenges from your perspective have  you worked with thousands of businesses have you   seen that really prevent companies from able to  build in the digital marketing space uh their   business well well i think a lot of it especially  for entrepreneurs let's start their entrepreneurs   and leaders we didn't go to school for marketing  right so that first off just the word and phrase   feels really overwhelming so the idea of i need  to write a sales funnel i'm i'm a lot of people   are nervous to even start with one email let alone  you know five or six and so i think that's one is   the first thing is it just feels overwhelming and  it feels uh intimidating because we have to get it   right there's so much at stake in our businesses  right like especially if you're leading a business   you are responsible for people's salaries  and and moving people forward and a lot   of people took a risk to be with you so  you i know you feel that pressure and so   going like all right we got to get the right  words to do the right thing to build the business   and move people forward so that's really a big  thing is i think people feel intimidated and they   don't know where to start the other thing is and  this is maybe part of my projecting because it's   my own insecurity is that i never necessarily  considered myself a sales person or a marketer   because i actually had a negative connotation of  those people even though now my favorite people   in the world are marketers and i am a marketer  i think when i started out i was like oh i don't   want to be that guy i don't want to be the  person that's always just pushing it and in   essence almost begging people to be involved and  coming from a place of being in leadership myself   you know there's a lot of times where you know say  let's say you're at a church and you're building   a new campaign for a new building well you're  feeling like oh we have to get everything up again   and beg people to give money or you know when  you're doing a business you're like oh how do we   get more people to buy and buy more and it just  feels sometimes it can feel a little slimy when   you try to like create a situation where people  are giving you money in any context right at least   that's for me that's for me that again that may be  my own projection but i think a lot of people feel   that like well i'm not a sales person and i if  i am i don't want to be quote unquote salesy so   even creating a sales funnel feels weird to me  that i'm going to actually get people's email   addresses and then sell them something by sending  them emails that feels gross and the reality is   when you're telling the wrong story it is gross  that's the truth it is kind of gross when you're   trying to convince people and almost win  in comparison to your competitor i'm not   your competitor your customer right if you're  trying to win by getting more money from them   then it is gross but if you're telling  the right story and by that what i mean   is so many companies try to position themselves  as the hero in the story right so they really try   to say we are the best and we're the greatest so  give us money and that makes you the hero of the   story but the reality is every human out there  wakes up as the hero in their own story right we   perceive ourselves as the hero there my life is  a movie about me and not even in a selfish way   it's just the way that i live right i'm the hero  of my own story so if i'm the hero of my story   and a company positions themselves as a hero  in their story then we are in competing stories   we actually one of us has to win and one of us  has to lose because we're in competing stories   but what the story brand framework does is teach  you to position yourself as the guide in your   customer story so your customer is the hero always  and you are their guide you are yoda and they are   luke skywalker you are gandalf and they are  frodo so you invite them into a story where   you get to play their guide and your whole job is  to help them win and the way you help them win is   by solving their problems so when you begin to  understand story in a new way and you understand   i am not the hero of my story as a leader as an  entrepreneur as a business owner you are not the   hero of your story your audiences your customer is  and when you can position yourself as their guide   that your entire job is to help them win first  not only does that give you a framework for how to   communicate so it makes it easy which is what you  know i said a lot of people are guessing at what   they need to write and it's very intimidating when  you have a framework you know how to communicate   and then secondly it doesn't position you as  sleazy or in competitive in competition with your   customer you genuinely are trying to help them  win and when the more they win the more you win   and so that's why story brand for me is so  powerful is because all of that stuff you   said for so many people it's so intimidating to  build a sales funnel but it's because i think we   have to have a paradigm shift about what a sales  funnel is for that is so powerful jj is i just   i reflect on that mindset shift kind of feels  like those two personas if i told you i had a   car salesman and a school teacher knowing nothing  else who do you trust the teacher the teacher why   because they want something for you yes but the  car salesman wants something perceived from you   and so we and so they have our guard up so i hear  you with that mindset shift of moving into that   that schoolteacher mentality of really genuinely  wanting to make relationship deposits problem   solution deposits really helping your ideal  audience a thrive collective pay attention to   that that's a that's a pro tip that's gold right  there pivoting the message um so any anything else   any other reflections on that um no i think  that that's uh i don't know if you just heard   that you know we're recording live but the roomba  just started to talk to me so if you heard that   you know and now the roomba is solving a problem  it is my problem it's going to scare my dog but   it's what happened you know what i'll take the  problem hashtag real life real life i love it i   love it okay so whether we call it us i mean it  is the anatomy of the sales funnel of a story   branded sales funnel that's what we're here to  talk about so the different components of that   but i love going into this conversation with that  relationship mentality truly wanting something of   benefit for the ideal avatar who we're trying to  serve so under the hood then dr peterson kind of   share with us what is the anatomy what components  are necessary for a sales funnel that works yeah   so you're dead on when you say that really any  any type of relationship that you're building   whether it's with your and your team members  like internally and so you're leading a team   or your audience as far as customers it's all  about relationship and building a relationship   and ultimately building trust right and so  if we i like to look at even relationship   with our customers in some ways like every other  relationship that we develop like almost let's   start with a dating relationship right so if  i'm in a dating if i'm looking to date somebody   typically what happens is let's say i go  to a party and i'm at a friend's house   and i see somebody across the room that i'm  intrigued by right because i start to hear   a little bit of their story and i go oh they they  did they studied in france that's interesting   and i'm attracted to them and everything and what  that phase of relationship is is called curiosity   so every good relationship starts with curiosity  where you start to become curious about the person   and this is true for a dating relationship it's  true for a business relationship you have to start   with building curiosity helping people become  curious in the product that you have and the   problem that that product solved the second phase  of relationship is enlightenment so again i i'm   interested in this person at a party i see them i  start being curious i ask a few questions and then   i say hey let's go on a date and you go on a date  and on those dates you're starting to learn more   and more and more about this person you become  enlightened about them and you're drawn in even   tighter well it's the same thing with a business  relationship after somebody becomes curious you   actually have to educate them about what you do  the way you do it in a clear and compelling way   that builds enlightenment you're teaching them  about who you are and how you can serve them well   and then the third phase of the relationship is  is commitment so those are all that's the three   levels of relationship curiosity enlightenment  commitment and in commitment again at some point   you you need to do something right you have  to like if you're just you see those stories   all the time of like oh well we're dating for  10 years and they go well what's his problem   like there's a problem you know if somebody  doesn't actually act or when i was um working   in um at the university i would see all these  students who would hang out together for hours   and hours studying and even have you know i worked  at a bible college so they were doing prayer time   together and they're doing this for like months  and months and months and then i'm like are you   guys dating no have you asked her on a date yet  no what's your problem dude get on it like you're   gonna at some point somebody is gonna get the guts  to ask this girl out and you're gonna miss out   like you have to ask for that commitment or you  miss out and it's the same thing in a business   relationship you have to come to a point and that  point can be really anywhere along the journey   where but you need to ask for a commitment now a  lot of people try to ask for that commitment too   early which is like asking somebody on the first  date to marry you and you cut you that works we've   seen it work in movies right of like oh we fell  in love on the first date we know those stories   but for the majority of people it doesn't  work that way you have to start with curiosity   then move to enlightenment and then ask for  the commitment so a sales funnel helps you   guide people through that relationship it starts  with curiosity then moves to enlightenment and   then commitment so there are five pieces we  we say is the story brand marketing checklist   really there are five things that you need  in your sales funnel a one-liner a website   a lead generator nurture emails and sales emails  so those are really the five things one line your   website lead generator nurture email sales emails  and each of those is designed to do something in   that relationship building so a one-liner is  basically a way of helping people get curious   about what you do it's the very first phase so  everybody that's listening right now you need to   have a one-liner and a one-liner is this it's just  a simple way it's all a simple way of explaining   what you do and why what you do matters to  the person you're talking to it invites them   into a story and helps them be curious and there's  actually a formula to it so the formula is problem   solution result so just remember that because  i'm going to walk through them for a second   problem solution result so normally when somebody  asks you what you do you just tell them so for me   if somebody asked me hey jj what do you do my  gut instinct is to just go i help people with   their marketing and branding that's it and i just  go i help people with marketing and branding well   if i say that people become now curious about  me as a person so they will ask questions like   oh my gosh what companies have you worked with  oh my gosh what was the weirdest situation   you got into where have you traveled around  the world they're asking questions about me   because i started with my story i said i  do marketing and branding a better way of   getting people curious about my business  is to start with quote unquote their story   their story starts with a problem they're  experiencing so i say something along the lines of   somebody says what do you do jj  and i say something instead like   so many companies are struggling in their  messaging and marketing because they're   telling the wrong story and they're losing  money because of it i work at a company   called storybrand and i come in and help people  clarify message so they're telling the right story   so that they can actually connect more  with customers and grow their business   that's a one-liner so three parts problem  companies struggle with telling the right story   solution what i do to help and then result what  their life looks like after so let me put that   together one more time so you can hear it jj what  do you do well so many companies really struggle   with their messaging because they're  telling the wrong story and they're   actually losing money because of it so i work  at a company called storybrand and i come in   and help companies clarify their message using a  story framework so that they tell the right story   and they actually engage customers and grow  their business that's it one two three and   that what that all that's designed to do is build  curiosity and that is the first part of your sales   funnel is building curiosity so you need a  one-liner then from there what they should   do is say tell me more and what they're going to  ask the questions they're going to ask are about   how to solve their problems right they're  going to go oh my gosh my company does that too   they're not going to ask me where i've traveled  or what they may ask what companies i've worked   with but really they're just going to go oh my  gosh we struggle with that so you're positioning   yourself as the guide already to their story so  everybody on here you need to right now even push   pause on this podcast sorry rob i'm going to  push pause that's all right and what you need   to do is you need to think through what problem  do you solve for your customer or your audience   what is your solution and ultimately what does  their life look like after they have taken you up   on your solution problem solution result you need  to just pause and start brainstorming that because   that is the first piece of your sales funnel and  everybody can do that this will change everything   about your business then the next phase is you  need to create a wireframe website so you need   to create a website that actually tells the right  story for your customer then from there you need   to create a lead generator and the lead generator  is just something that gets people's email address   and the way you do that is by offering some kind  of value like a video that gives them five tips   or pdf that gives them five tips something that  you can get their email from and both the website   and the lead generator really move people from  curiosity to enlightenment the website still does   a little bit of building curiosity especially  like the beginning the header of your website   builds curiosity and then we move people towards  enlightenment with the rest of the website and   the lead generator then the last two pieces of the  sales funnel are sales emails and nurture emails   sales emails close the deal they move people  into that commitment phase and all you want to do   is the easiest way there's a number of formulas  now we've even put a formula in the marketing made   simple books you can go read that but i'll give  you the easiest way to write a sales funnel if   you've never written one before especially if that  feels very intimidating is just think of the top   five reasons why people would not buy your product  or service so maybe it's cost maybe it's time   maybe it's too hard and this is even the same for  say leaders who are like trying to get people to   move to some move forward like buy into a campaign  think of the top five reasons why they would not   like are they uninformed are they does it cost too  much what it whatever that is and then write five   emails that overcome those five objections so if  the first one is cost so you just go you have a   an imaginary conversation with your customer and  you say they say to you well it's too expensive   well just imagine what would you say back to them  when they say it's too expensive you'd probably   talk about the value that you bring how you're  saving them time how you're saving them effort how   this is an investment instead of a cost all right  so take all of that language and put it in an   email and that's your first email is overcoming  that objection of cost then same thing if the   second one is time it's going to take too much  time well now you need to just have an imaginary   conversation with your customer and say here's  the thing though is once you actually put this   time up front you're going to save a bunch of  time later not only will you save more time but   it's going to be more effective so you're going to  make more money all right that's email number two   so just take the top five reasons why people don't  aren't are hesitant to buy your product or service   and then write an email that overcomes those top  five and then finally the last thing is a nurture   email and the nurture email is kind of like let's  say they're not ready to buy you've asked them   to buy you know you've asked them to marry you  they're not ready to buy yet they're not ready   to commit all right we're going to continue dating  we're going to continue the relationship so that's   where a nurture email sequence comes in and that's  where you send basically an email maybe once a   week or once a month depending on your audience  and all you're doing is offering value to them to   continue to build the relationship so you're not  really asking for a hard sale you're just going   hey by the way i know you struggle with this and  you know let's say you um you're a nursery like   a plant nursery and you might send out an email  that's like hey you know as winter comes here's   how to protect your plants um as spring comes  here's how to make sure that you're planting   things at the right time here's how to make sure  your garden is lush and gorgeous here's five tips   on designing your yard so that it fits your needs  you know you're just sending up tips once a week   that offers value and then at the bottom you're  like okay schedule appointment or buy now or   come in but you're not really selling you're just  offering value so that is the sales funnel i know   i just threw a ton of stuff at you but it is it's  like an engine and once you get this thing set up   it works 24 hours a day seven days a week um  sometimes we're talking to clients is again   we're story brand certified agencies we implement  these these tools that jj is talking about we'll   say it could become your your mvp team member  your sales funnel works like a team member except   it's an investment one time that pays dividends  for years to come yeah it sells while you sleep   because and every business has to have this i  mean i i'm very adamant about that is that really   every business has to have this you have to build  relationship with your customer at the speed   that they're ready to onboard which starts with  curiosity moves to enlightenment and then moves to   commitment and you have to be telling the right  story otherwise you're just noise you're just   noise you're adding noise here that email that  comes into their box that they ignore like every   other one you have to position yourself as a  guide to their hero and help them overcome their   problems and you do that with a sales funnel and  again it feels intimidating and i'm not going to   say it's not going to take work that's the truth  is this will take a little bit of work um but   the work is worth the investment because it will  it will sell in your sleep and you know and rob   you you mentioned this but i'll i'm going to pitch  you for a second is that rob is an amazing uh   guide he's an amazing marketer and he they their  team creates this they so what we do is we train   people to create this rob is one of the people who  creates this so if it's even after all this you're   like i get it you can hire rob so i know rob um  i'm just going to say that because i believe in   you and i've seen your work and i know what you  do so and i'm passionate about this and here's   let me go back to one of things i said earlier i  don't feel sleazy saying that i don't feel weird   pitching you because i know you are capable of  solving their problem and that's what it comes   down to is i i used to be so insecure about asking  people to buy or asking people to donate or asking   even like students to volunteer right i used  to be like hey we really need a lot of help for   um preview day it would really help us a lot if  you guys stepped up and it always felt weird well   what if i just changed that story and made  them the hero right and my job is to help   them win the day and move their life forward  and feel better and solve their own problems   when i tell that story then i have no problem i  have no problem going no no you need to hire rob   because i know rob is going to give you a return  on your investment he perceives himself he looks   at himself as a guide and he wants you to  win so when you start telling that story   then i don't i don't have a problem i don't feel  sleazy i don't feel weird i have confidence in   the product and service that is being offered  and i actually say no if if you're not ready   for it that's fine if and when i say you're  not ready for it that means i'm not your guide   it's not time for this story to happen in your  business or life but if it is i know i'm going   to help you win and i have no problem calling you  to action and asking for that commitment well jj   first of all thank you um you know such kind words  and affirming and quite frankly learning from you   over the years you know is really a you know your  compliment to us is equally a compliment back to   you and your team as you guys have taught us  so well uh through the certification courses   at storybrand um you know it's it's so beautiful  the idea of building relationship at a distance   first through curiosity then enlightenment then  commitment i am curious about finding more heroes   to fill into that funnel like the outreach and  the expansion filling the top of the funnel   yeah just be really curious just as a kind of a  closing question for me the idea of filling the   funnel with more people what ideas recommendations  or advice would you give to a small business owner   that just needs to get seen by more heroes yeah  the first i would say is clarify your message   clarify or must figure out what story  you're telling and make that story really   really clear because what that does is it  helps you hone in on who your audience is   and who you're inviting into the story then in  the most simple form go where they are right so   figure out where they are so let's just be let's  make it really simple if you are a peach farm   then you want to be at farmers markets and you  want to be on corners that are high traffic right   you literally go to where they are physically as a  peach farm but let's say you are not a peach farm   you don't have something physical to sell in that  space you want to still want to think of the same   in the same way where where is the traffic  where are people going by is it linkedin is it   facebook is it you know where is it is it  conventions that you need to be at giving   keynotes you need to be where the traffic is  so identify what your who your story is about   then go to where they are and i think if you've  not started before then don't feel like you have   to be everywhere right tick tock is huge right now  90 of you that are listening this don't need to be   on tick tock you don't need to be wasting your  time on tick tock because that's not where your   audience is now if you're selling to teenage  girls then you 100 need to be on tick tock   but if you're not then you need to be in linkedin  you need to be an instagram you need to be places   where your audience is so start there don't try  to go everywhere go to where your biggest traffic   is then when you're there what you need to do  is you need to identify how to create curiosity   now that curiosity can be by offering something  free so like a um something of value so it can   be a coupon or it can be a free uh sample but it  can also be tips and tricks so for instance as a   marketer you might put something online that says  uh five ways your website is losing you money and   how to fix it you're just getting some curiosity  out there and you're trying to solve a problem   for your customer and you're not necessarily i  would say for most people you're not necessarily   trying to sell your product in that space you're  trying to get people curious and so you do that   with one liner language with solving a problem for  them and so you're just you're advertising lead   generators or tips tricks something that gets them  curious especially if you have a high-end product   if you're selling something that's a couple  thousand dollars or more most people are not   going to buy directly from facebook for a couple  thousand dollar product so don't sell your product   sell your lead generator sell this and what i mean  by sell is advertise pitch your lead generator   get people curious so that's how i would  start for people who've not done that before   identify your audience who is the story about then  go to where the high traffic areas are for those   for that audience and then start by getting them  curious use one-liner language and then also give   them something of value that shows that you can  solve a problem this is brilliant gold because   you know quite frankly a lot of small business  owners listening in think well i should be on   facebook i should be on google i should be on  this i should be on this and if you don't go   through the steps of clarifying your message first  it's going to be like letting the tail wag the dog   you're going to be doing all the things to try  to mimic what you see people as peers in your   industry doing without the core reason behind  it the why behind it when you go through that   to clarify your message you know who you're  talking to yeah and you know we often say like   you can like you can amplify your message but if  your message doesn't make sense it's not going to   matter so you can give a monkey a bullhorn and you  can make it loud you can make the monkey louder   but that doesn't mean you're going to get more  sales right and that's what so many people do is   they don't clarify their message first they don't  tell the right story and then they they just are   putting noise out there through a megaphone that's  it and and they're telling the wrong story so   nobody's listening so that's why it's so important  to start there then when you get that megaphone   when you get that microphone you know the message  is being heard and it's making a difference   absolute brilliant gold entrepreneurs  small business owners and leaders uh   i i really i just i hope that you take action on  some of the advice that dr j.j peterson is sharing   with us today and uh jj as a follow-up from  today's episode first of all thank you for your   investment in the thrive collective family today  this has been just a treasure of a time together   you've actually got a couple of resources as well  uh five minute marketing makeover and then also   marketing made simple you yourself you and april  sunshine hawkins you guys have a podcast that's   helping business owners maybe just share a little  bit about these two resources and how thrive   collective can tie into them yeah so five minute  marketing makeover is a video series this is part   of our nurture campaign it's our lead generator  and and i have again i have no problem kind of   pulling back the curtain and going no we're going  to try to sell you something and not to be like a   jerk about it but it's because we believe this  will help so if you go to five minute marking   makeover first thing you're gonna do is you're  gonna get videos that you will immediately be able   to start making a difference in your marketing  but second you're gonna start getting our sales   emails now here's the thing i would if you do not  have a sales funnel i would print out those emails   so first if you want to buy from us and we feel  like it's a good fit great but here's the other   thing print out the emails and copy our our format  just do that that is that alone is a tool for you   because i would say study other  people's marketing who's doing it well   so download the videos those are going to give  you tips but this is the insider trick for here   is literally just wait till our emails come read  them copy them and use them to build your own   sales funnel um we want you to succeed so that's  fiveminutemarketingmakeover.com go there sign up   and then secondly is the marketing made simple  podcast and so april sunshine and myself april   sunshine that is her real name uh we she works  with me in doing training for marketers around   the world and we really believe we work with  the best marketers in the world um we started   a podcast because we believe marketing should  be easy and it should work and so every episode   goes into giving tips and tricks really  actionable items that people can do to improve   their marketing right now um and we're just we  launched just a couple weeks ago so this first   series is going through the story brand framework  so if you're going how do i clarify my message   jj and robert saying i need to have the right  story well listen to the first series of marketing   made simple the podcast and you will get the  information you need to clarify your message and   then the next series what we're doing is the sales  funnel so if you want to clarify your message and   create a sales funnel the first i believe 20  episodes ish are going to be about that very   thing so go subscribe to marketing made simple and  we'll get you marketing um that's easy and works   amazing dr jj thank you thank you on behalf  of the entrepreneurs small business owners   and leaders who listened to this show thanks  for your investment with the thrive collective   family today it's been a joy to have you  on thanks for having me i loved it you